status-monitor Pointing out a scam to warn others

[alcy]

so some new 1 day old user is selling a nice mega old domain for peanuts, and accepting only bitcoin .. and I post on his thread to be careful buying this cause usually stuff like this ends up in scam.. and 2 mins later I get a moderator pm threatening me to remove access to my account cause comments don't belong on sales threads.

nice going there Cyberian.

......"Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using this website..."

in future I'll be sure to let everyone scam everyone on namepros and not say a word. see how you like that.

I decided to create this thread to ensure that never ever on np (thats eternity+1) any members noble intentions to warn others of potential scam and dangers do not result in him being "compensated" by account suspensions or restrictions.

just make a new rule that says "member warnings of potential scam" are not to be put in same basket as members hijacking someone else's thread for other reasons. cause right now its the same basket.

thanks for taking care of this in a permanent and prompt manner so np members do not have to be insuilted and humiliated or feel bad for trying to warn others in future.

 

[creataweb]

 

[Kenny]

alcy,

No one threatened your account, you were given a warning for crashing a sales thread.
You did not know the full story, I was already in the thread when you posted.
If you see a problem or have a concern with a Sales thread, please use the Report button.

We appreciate members looking out, but please use the report button.

Thank you for understanding.

Peace,
Cyberian

 

[alcy]

well you were there to check why he didn't sell after someone posted sold... there is no mention of other things in your post.. there is no statement from you saying "this may be a scam".. or "we checked this out not to be a scam"

to me these matters need be made public.. not some private PM report... taking X time to resolve... others need to be warned immediately of potential danger. its too late after we pay for a scam.

and yes, I was threatened with account restriction.

if you can't appreciate members looking out for other members, then rewrite all your rules til you get it right. cause that should be the basis for any online community.

thats all I had to say about that. thanks. have good day. and please don't threaten me with account restrictions again for trying to help others. and do not put warning and scam potential posts from people in the same category as everything else under the sun that you classify under your thread hijacking rule. otherwise if you keep deleting warning posts and stuff turns out to be a scam, well, its just as good as namepros being responsible for people getting scammed.

 

[briguy]

Totally neutral here, so just my thoughts..

if you can't appreciate members looking out for other members, then rewrite all your rules til you get it right. cause that should be the basis for any online community.

Not sure if you are being general or specifically referring to Cyberian about rewriting the rules?

But do know that Cyberian is a recent addition to the "mod" position. So I am assuming that these rules were written before he began a moderator and his job basically is to re-enforce them! Pretty sure, he is limited in changing any rules and there is "higher ups" that make rules.

Just my thoughts...

 

[alcy]

Totally neutral here, so just my thoughts..

Not sure if you are being general or specifically referring to Cyberian about rewriting the rules?

But do know that Cyberian is a recent addition to the "mod" position. So I am assuming that these rules were written before he began a moderator and his job basically is to re-enforce them! Pretty sure, he is limited in changing any rules and there is "higher ups" that make rules.

Just my thoughts...

thanks for input
yes I just meant this as general remark of course.. for namepros. not cyberian.
that if any forum site's rules do not take into account and permit members to look out for one another, in terms of potential scams etc.. then those rules should all be thrown to the trash, and written from scratch again.

I mean if your gonna Pm people just cause they post a warning for all against scam, and tell them their account can get restricted for looking out for others, then clearly, something is not right with things,

jmo
cheers

 

[briguy]

thanks for input
yes I just meant this as general remark of course.. for namepros. not cyberian.
that if any forum site's rules do not take into account and permit members to look out for one another, in terms of potential scams etc.. then those rules should all be thrown to the trash, and written from scratch again.

I mean if your gonna Pm people just cause they post a warning for all against scam, and tell them their account can get restricted for looking out for others, then clearly, something is not right with things,

jmo
cheers

Thanks for the clarification!
Personally (just the way that I am), if I had a concern about a potential scam, I would use the "report" button and state my reason..not saying what you did was right or wrong cause I really don't know the incident!

Again thanks for the claification!

 

[alcy]

Thanks for the clarification!
Personally (just the way that I am), if I had a concern about a potential scam, I would use the "report" button and state my reason..not saying what you did was right or wrong cause I really don't know the incident!

Again thanks for the claification!

I guess you can do that too. but it can take hours to resolve.. and in meantime someone (perhaps newer members) can conclude the whole transaction.. buy... pay.. and get scammed. then a mod resolution is not going to help after payment is made.

I am always thankful for people who post such warnign posts on sales thread. I have some experience behind me... so I can tell myself when something looks fishy.. but some members cannot.

moderators should thank such people.. looking out for others. not send pms talking about restricting their accounts and quoting some nonsense about hijacking threads for their own selfish purposes... its not selfish to help or warn others. it's the opposite of selfish.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Hello,

As mentioned by others, NamePros does have a clear rule that prohibits commenting on sales threads.

6.1.1. No Sales Crashing: Do not post anything in a sales listing that could devalue an item or hinder a sale from taking place successfully.

With the above in mind, if the sales listing is suspected of being a scam, NamePros has a report feature that will alert moderators to investigate the situation.

It would be more helpful to moderators and the community if evidence was also provided at the time of the report. While we do investigate assumptions/suspicion, it helps speed up the process if evidence to support any accusations is provided at the time of the report.

NamePros encourages everyone to report any suspicious activity and looks into every report. However, it's important that the rules/policies are followed when doing so.

Commenting in a sales thread in a way that hinders a sale based on an assumption or suspicion can potentially ruin a sale in cases where the accusation was found to be false later. However, as soon as we have sufficient evidence (or we realize it needs to be investigated thoroughly), we will report in the sales thread ourselves to let everyone know what is going on.

I apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

 

[Acroplex]

Hitting the report button works. But sometimes, you have to break the rules Especially if it's an auction or noobies are about to be fleeced.

 

[Silentptnr]

Oh, I almost forgot...Thanks for looking out @alcy you are a highly reputable and intelligent member.

Congratulations on the new role @Cyberian! I read your stuff and your integrity and quick thinking are exceptional.

And Mr. Lyon, your even tempered, strong leadership is something truly special. I still think of you and your family during what must be like a bad dream.

There, now I properly greeted you all.

 

[Paul]

Outing people in their own sales threads might be effective at preventing sales, but if we allowed it, what would that ultimately mean? Members could fraudulently impede the sales of people they dislike by spreading lies. We wouldn't have any way to disprove the information. And there have been people who have made it very clear that they would abuse such a system purely for the sake of causing chaos--there are some nutty people out there.

If you see someone scamming, hit the report button. The chances that they're going to be able to take anything from anyone before we review the report are pretty slim. We have all sorts of technology and intelligence that we can use to assess the likelihood of someone scamming, and we can also track their efforts, should the attempt the same thing with multiple accounts or on other websites. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to keep scammers at bay. Each time you report a scammer, you add data to our system and help guide our efforts.

It's also worth keeping in mind that people need to learn how to spot scams and avoid them on their own. Yes, we might block the majority of malicious activity, but there are always going to be a few troublemakers who get through. There's no substitute for raising awareness and educating the community. However, it doesn't seem to work well when we attempt to do that in sales threads--it just results in flame wars and false accusations. Just because you know how to spot a spammer correctly doesn't mean everyone else does, unfortunately.

 

[Asfas1000]

The chances that they're going to be able to take anything from anyone before we review the report are pretty slim. We have all sorts of technology and intelligence that we can use to assess the likelihood of someone scamming, and we can also track their efforts, should the attempt the same thing with multiple accounts or on other websites.

It would help if priority was given to reports made in a Sales thread (maybe it is already set up like this ?)

 

[Paul]

It would help if priority was given to reports made in a Sales thread (maybe it is already set up like this ?)

There aren't enough reports for prioritization to have a significant impact. If you made a report and nothing has been done, there's usually a good reason, unless we're all asleep. Some reports also require more thorough investigations by specific people who may not be immediately available, but the situation will be monitored in the meantime.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Added note from another thread:

Added Note: We plan to add a feature that allows sellers to delete any comments/posts they want from their sales listings, which is similar to some other marketplaces, so that's another reason we don't want members to get into the habit of depending on comments in sales threads and we want members to use the report button. Once we add that feature, sellers will be able to delete those comments on their own and the only option will be the report button.

 

[james haw]

alcy, I sincerely understand your suspicion here, and I know it was good intentions, but there is only a potential of a scam and without facts it's inconclusive. I'm glad the mods try to keep things fair and don't make accusations without investigating, or allow us to do so publicly. Moderating with a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude makes a crappy forum.

I'm not arguing against you, just highlighting the other side to this and why investigating before accusing is a necessity:

so some new 1 day old user is selling a nice mega old domain for peanuts, and accepting only bitcoin

1. Everyone is new at some point, but we only know they're new to NP - they could have been domaining for years. Plus, there's been plenty of well established users accused of fraud/theft.
   
2. Value of a domain name is subjective, maybe they have a vast portfolio of better names and/or just wanted rid of this one? Maybe they don't understand the value of their name?
   
3. What's wrong with bitcoin? Many well established users allow bitcoin payments.

Of course all 3 at the same time is why alarm bells start ringing, but imagine for a second that seller is entirely genuine. First, they're gonna be understandably peeved because their legit sales thread has scam claims on it, potentially scaring buyers away. Second, maybe they are the ones who need some helpful advice in that they're selling their domain name too cheap? Did anyone post such advice in their sales thread, or just accusations against them?


A genuine problem to raise to seek a resolve would be if the reporting system was not working, because the wrong decision was made, or not fast enough to stop someone being scammed. Tho I don't think either are likely.

I get why you posted to have info present quickly, but regardless I just don't think it's right for legit people to potentially be negatively impacted from an attempt to moderate potentially illegitimate people.

 

[Eric Lyon]

I get why you posted to have info present quickly, but regardless I just don't think it's right for legit people to potentially be negatively impacted from an attempt to moderate potentially illegitimate people.

Well said, this is a major reason why we don't allow it. It would lead to more harm than good if anyone could do this in sales threads whenever they wanted. However, we do have members that are good at researching and reporting things responsibly, so it may be beneficial for us to figure out a way to empower members with indisputable evidence (E.g. they called the number on the whois and confirmed it's a fraudulent listing) to report that in the thread/listing without opening the flood gates for irresponsible members to accuse in sales threads without sufficient evidence.

We're open to suggestions on the best way to do this, but until we have an established policy, we only allow reporting these things to us.

Thanks for your feedback,