Labeled as domains in Domain Industry News, started by equity78, Nov 15, 2020
@oldtimer I agree that the situation is as you describe it. It is the solution you propose I find at best implausible. Who is going to be the arbiter of what these new companies send and to whom? A new international advisory committee? What if individual domainers disagree? How long will it take to set up then how much longer to prove its effectiveness?
Why international? I'm in the UK for starters. Looking at the grammer of much that is written on these hallowed boards, not everybody is a native English speaker and there are certainly some from the Indian subcontinent plus from several European countries, Asian countries and Australasia. None of us would be answerable to any solely USA institution.
Domaining as an industry is still too small to get enough of a hearing from the likes of W3C and ICANN bodies and their subcommittees. To them, so what if the domaining industry gets itself a bad name and self-destructs? Who, as far as they are concerned, is going to miss it? So where to from here? N.B. I understand the arguments. Let us, please, not have a page or several of explanations of how valuable we are. I am converted already. You need to tell ICANN et al.
In the meanwhile, I think the unwilling recipients and the member organisations the unwilling recipients belong to will find their own solutions. Beginning with the social media organisations banning such activities and insisting anybody who wishes to approach their members do so via their own internal, fee collecting, existing mechanisms. That will solve more than the domain name spamming and is overdue anyway.
Soon afterwards the RBL lists will be bolstered by a new membership of domain name spammers and email hosts will be closing their accounts. As has happened with sexual "enhancement" therapies, a prince has given me a few million bucks to disperse scams and other antisocial activities.
Nothing, as you so rightly note, is going to completely ban all of the idiots who think they can gain an edge but compare how the early days of penis enlargement therapies was seen as a laugh by many has become almost universally unacceptable. Lists of poor quality domain names aren't even slightly amusing and will very likely follow the same course.
All of the above is likely to happen before agreement can be reached on how some system of "independent" spamming companies can be agreed and the first companies appointed. And if it happens after those companies have started work, how will they be recompensed for the inevitable financial losses they incur so soon after startup?
So, to get the ball rolling, the best we can probably do for now is to tell the social media moderators or other organisations we belong to when we receive domain name (and other) spam.
It's not spamming, get over yourselves. It's not moral, but hey -- if you didn't realize it, BIG companies are doing exactly that.
They mail out "promotions" "renewal reminders" "REGISTRATIONS." How often have you received unsolicited MAIL and EMAILS from Credit Card companies asking you to apply? Loans? ETC!
Just because you're small time and are emailing people doesn't mean it's not being done en masse by large companies. Just because their envelopes and graphics are nicer... doesn't mean you're doing different things.
When you are on a domainers forum you got to put your domainer hat on and ask yourself how can domainers be able to present their domains to narrowly targeted end users who could benefit from those domains without coming across as scammers and spammers.
I myself would probably be using the services of a professional Domain Marketing Company to promote couple of my domains if such company existed and believe that if everyone else also did the same thing it would cut down on a lot of the spamming that is going on right now once the domains that are going to be outbounded are filtered for suitability and usability for certain end users.
Nevertheless that's just how I feel about this situation, but I am not saying that I have all the answers or that such endeavor is guaranteed to work, it's just an idea after all.
here's a trick. use bogus email address as a customer. 9 times out of 10 whomever you reach out to will be selling a product or service.
Play it off like you are a customer interested in whatever they are selling.
Chances are you own and want to sell a domain that's related to their business.
Tell them you read about their product or service called "123 tech" so you typed it into the address bar 123tech.com and was "confused at what you found." ask if that is their website.
If you have a sales lander, make it even more a concern for them and tell them you are worried because you submitted your personal info on that website thinking it was theirs.
It goes without saying, the above method? Tread carefully.
Always use VPN or proxies with high anonymous level.
before you log into your Gmail or Yahoo.
If you ever plan on contacting these people again using a different email address it's probably smart to change the MAC address of your pc or laptop with every move you make.
with any luck. they will have a look at 123tech.com and submit an offer.
in this game of cat and mouse it's always best for the enduser to contact you not the other way around.
They will never know your domain exists unless you give them the scent of it.
That is another solution altogether. You may just have identified a big gap in the market for a professional marketing & PR company that understands domain name marketing. There may well be lots of takers within the group who currently rely upon landers and/or advertising only.
But I can't see the people who think making complete nuisances of themselves is OK paying a third party to up their ethical standards. They don't even recognise the fact that deliberate spamming is bad marketing, a nuisance and unethical, as the next quote amply illustrates.
Big companies who did that on this side of the pond would open themselves up to some very hefty fines. It is illegal. They don't do it. I am not familiar with marketing law or practices in North America.
Sounds like a lot more trouble than doing it all ethically in the first place! And for lower returns. Those folk are not going to join your mailing lists. They are not going to be repeat customers. They are not going to be introducing their associates.
Ethical marketing offers tremendous benefits. Not least, it enables you to move your higher value domains a lot quicker and for the best available prices. It gains respect, helping you to stand out from the whole swamp of "me too" offerings out there. It enhances the opportunities to attract brokerage assignments. Some will even sign up for your newsletter, so you can send regular updates - think of the kudos if you'd been the first to tell them about GDPR and what it meant for their own marketing efforts, as an instance - without being blacklisted. Not to mention the aforementioned opportunities for referrals and introductions.
I have had to prove in past with telco /isp that complaints about spam have been subscribers to a program web site. I was lucky as had to prove a few dozen and did but wasn't looking pretty. I am very careful about outbound as these people in domain field have never subscribed.
How can this be used in real life?
It sounds great in theory but in reality it might end up where most pages of big fat workplace manuals tend to remain - unread, unused, and unenforced.
It's like telling people they can order a random stranger to talk to them on an airplane, but he or she will likely start talking to them even without this explicit permission (obtained days or weeks before the flight; privacy protection aside, securing it would be nearly impossible, time- and efficiency-wise).
Plus, as this is a Canadian concept which is meant to affect the rest of the world, what if each country creates its own unique version of this opt-in database and rules?
More big fat manuals and tons of bureaucracy, while ordinary people and businesses will continue communicating like they normally do. Not many will read those manuals because both sides are often doing this, and both side will have to ignore or bypass the new rules every once a while.
Like patent trollers and Freedom of Information Act abusers, the upcoming communication compliance "consultants" and so-called e-activists will have one more weapon in their arsenal to bully business owners and government departments about many previously organic B2B connections and customer-biz enquires.
A worldwide standard needs to be created, not random countries presenting their random ideas; however tough and efficient those ideas might sound.
Because of limited manpower and unlimited international clashes (each time a new country shows off how smart their in/out/transit anti spam rules are), no country-based policy will be tough or efficient.
Until experts from the UN (or from an equally international group/NGO/org) step in, there will be no real solution.
Oldtimer...i use to be in the professional debt collection business, and collecting a debt legally and in accordance with federal regulation (FDCPA) is very similar to selling a domain. While snail mail and email were our initial contact, it was the professional telecall that resulted in a debt being paid or not. Required reading for debt collectors was/is "The Art of Negotiation". This is the very same book sales people in most industries are required or should read.
I've recently acquired 800+ .realty domains and plan to use a plethora of "outbound" marketing strategies from targeted email, to snail mail via glossy post card to targeted telesales.
I just finished listening to a podcast by Alvin Brown where he interviewed Jason Eisner and Yogi Solanki of New Delhi all about "outbound" domain marketing. It was fabulous, and only confirmed what I already new about the process. Anyway, most domainers I run into here can't or simply don't want to do outbound, thus I recommend they seek a professional to do it for them. Always remember, you get what you pay for, and to pay a commission of 20-30% isn't much considering your overall "net back".
Good Luck Oldtimer etal
I wasn't exactly "hoping" they will sign up for my newsletter. matter of fact I don't even have one! lol but I do hope they get an inkling of the existence of my domain name that they should have on their radar.
There's more than one way to skin a rat. (is this even appropriate here? lol but you get my drift.)
I say so long as you are safe and protected my anonymity you gotta fight to get the eyes of endusers on your domain when they otherwise would not have.
up until you contacted them. I can guarantee you your domain wasn't even on their radar.
No one in this discussion ever mentions that the spammer who reached out to me actually brought to light info that I should have known all this time. Yea sure I have spam. I hate getting it. But I can appreciate the "entrepreneurial" spirit.
One man's spammer is another man's information provider.
At thee end of the day. It's easy enough to click BLOCK or send the email to your spam box. problem solved.
You would need to be a "special" kind of person to actually go and chase after said spammer. Like seriously. You don't anything better to do with your time? lol
I actually feel bad for most spammers. They must know that the email they are sending even if they are using some bulk spamming software will end up in the spam box and yet they do it and take a shot at 1% response if that.
You tell me. How many of use would do this? Not me. lol
In any other "job" where you can only expect a 1% response or chance and yet you keep going. most would call that job and that person. "Noble" would they not? lol I know. Sound ridiculous right?
Jobs like that guy handing out flyers on the street.
those costumed hero's in Times Square charging $10 for photos with them.
even that pandhandler
the guy wiping car windows at stoplights.
the guy selling bottled water or oranges on the side of the road.
that guy selling Swipes on his metrocard in NYC Subways for half price. lol
that hot nuts guy selling hot nuts on NYC. lol
I've seen them all! lol
I have two opinions on this:
Most emails I am receiving i would consider as spam. They are sent to bulk amount of recipents and often contain domains of low qualities. I have some keyword domains in Germain and something i am receiving the same domain with an S in the end. Which makes zero sense. Receiving everyday emails like this is a pain.
Now lately i saw one user is quite active in an auction and I had some similar domains so I reach out to him. or when I made a ware that there is a high quality domain available (for example .com when i am owning the .net) I would not consider that as spam.
Thank you for making my point, @xsdomain. The target has something specific to gain so some research has gone into it. You are not simply blasting a disinterested audience with pot luck. In an owner-managed small business the person to write to is obvious so it can be personalised.
Here is a good example of spamming.
1 unsolicited email, that is not compliant with the CAN-SPAM act despite what it says.
3 follow-up emails (so far).
This is not "outbound". This is spamming.
1.) On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:44 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Would you be interested in buying the domain Dogwalker.co?
It recently got listed for sale with us at a reasonable price.
This is an advertisement mail strictly on the guidelines of CAN-SPAM act of 2003. Clearly mentioned the source mail-id of this mail and this is no way misleading in any form. We have found your mail address through our own efforts by web search and not through any illegal way. If you find this mail unsolicited, please reply with "Remove" and we will take care that you do not receive any further promotional mail.
2.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 4:48 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Just wondering if you got my last mail?
3.) On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 5:08 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
I would really appreciate if you can take a minute and let me know if you would be interested in the domain name?
4.) On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Can I please get a response?
Yeah they think if saying they are compliant makes them compliant. Where is their contact info including address?
But #4 just sounds pathetic, #Desperate. The person should maybe become a dog walker. Might have more success with that.
Spamming is not cool for sure, but domainers want to sell.
That's an excuse?
Some people want an easy life, whatever they choose to sell, to get paid without doing the necessary work. That's dishonest and most turn out to be fly-by-nights, here today gone tomorrow, because not doing the work tends not to pay. I seriously doubt the spammers within domaining secure the real worth of their domains and I doubt they get enough sales to keep them spamming for very long.
Others, whatever the walk of life, do the work, learn the business and go on to make a living, some better than others.
Separate names with a comma.