domains Outbound = Spamming (Really???)

[equity78]

It seems like some domain investors continue to see outbound marketing as spam. It's a complicated topic: Outbound marketing needs to be done properly, making sure it does not violate the […]

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[gold lover]

I guess it will depend on your approach and how persistent one is

 

[Bname.com]

I rarely feel successful

 

[oldtimer]

Having a "Domain Marketing Company" doing the outbound for domainers will probably bring some order to this spamming mess when it comes to end users and most likely will help domainers become more successful with making more sales by providing more credibility for their domains through a more central hub for doing outbound.

Although we still have to think of a way to stop those turkeys who want to spam other domainers and offer them the same domain in so many other extensions.

IMO

 

[FolioTeam]

Why is it that people have a problem with outbound? I have been doing it in other fields for years and very very rarely get an F off or any aggressive replies.....even when I dabbled at it with domains this was the case

Most people really must be sending out awful emails, crap domains and just hoping for the best......

If done right the worst you should get is being ignored or a reply saying remove me from your mailing list, maybe a polite no thanks and if your lucky a reply asking how much or the jackpot is them hitting the BIN on your lander........

If your getting really bad response you need to take at long hard look at how your going about things......

I get emails from people trying to sell me their domains and they are using a personal email address - I mean WTF - how is anyone going to take you seriously if you do this?

Also there is no social proof - no professional signature with a LinkedIn profile, no contact phone number, a lot of the time not even their full name.....

The more information you provide that is verifiable, the more trustworthy you come across - especially when you are not speaking to that person and building a relationship with them

In other fields, there's is the notion that what you are offering is of some value, wasn't stolen or an outright scam. Not that people don't get swindled in those other industries.

But in domaining, a typical lay person feels like they are being preyed upon or ripped off one way or the other. Hence, the cybersquatting tags.

It also doesn't help that some domainers do some despicable things in the name of outbounding which gives the entire industry a bad name.

 

[Mike Goodman]

The tiny 1% can turn your business to a positive sign. Try to be honest, simple, polite and professional. Doing that immediately you avoid spam zone. Be careful about trademarks too.

Not nearly enough. I couldn't give a damn how "polite" a spammer is. I am a domainer, The last thing I want is emails offering me a load of crap from other "domainers".

Before sending even ONE email out, the research has to be done. Is the domain I am offering a good fit for that business? Have I got the correct person in the organisation to write to?

If the answer to either of these is no, do not send that email. If you do you are spamming. Full stop. You are making a nuisance of yourself and you are bringing this industry into disrepute.

Marketing means working. A lot of background work goes in before any attempt at making contact, if the business being marketed is to grow and become successful. For direct marketing, as contrasted with advertising, the work is harder, more detailed, but the outcomes tend to be more bountiful.

If you are not prepared to do the work, the best thing is to stick to landing pages or advertising features. Do not send spam emails and do not make cold phone calls.

IMO.

 

[Theydon]

In my opinion there is a correlation between spam and set up time.

Those who want to contact companies at volume and as quickly as possible are more likely to spam.

Those who spend the time to research the market, presenting a name that can clearly add value, via individual emails to decision makers (with unsubscribe/opt out) are more likely to fall in to a well coordinated outbound campaign. But can be considered also as spam or unwanted email.

The latter can provide ultimate value to an end user or be seen as an inconvenience - it will therefore always be a case by case situation. However, done professionally, it should land lightly and not result in most cases in negative feedback.

 

[Mike Goodman]

Those who want to contact companies at volume and as quickly as possible are more likely to spam.

I'd take this a serious step further. Those who contact at volume are spamming. Those who contact quickly (i.e. without doing the research) are spamming. It really is quite that simple.

 

[oldtimer]

Unfortunately those who cast a wide net and send mass emails with deceptive titles that persuade the recipients to open those emails are going to have a certain level of success simply due to the sheer number of emails that are sent and thus are encouraged to do even more spams and use even more deceptive titles to catch the attention of a few unsuspecting recipients and in such a scenario those who spam think of themselves as winners due to their ill gotten success and think of everyone else who wants to abide by the rules as losers or lazy.

In my opinion the only way that this Industry can protect itself is by bringing outbounding under a central hub such as what I had suggested about having a few professional "Domain Marketing Companies" doing all the outbounding on behalf of the domainers for a reasonable fee.

IMO

 

[Mike Goodman]

@oldtimer how do clients get to know what our central hub is? How is membership by domainers, especially the loose canons, enforced? I don't believe it can be. Just scanning through some of the posts in these forums tells me there are too many too idle or stupid to bother reading or too thick skinned to take any notice. There is no central agency with the authority to act. So how can your idea be implemented?

There will be pockets, such as LinkedIn, where the members will soon tire and start to complain in numbers, of being bombarded by utterly irrelevant and useless domain names in lists and such organisations are then likely to warn, prevent from posting or ban the spammers. But that is only on a limited scale in proportion to the overall problem.

I have to say it is a hell of a bad rash on LinkedIn at the moment. It seems every other contact request I receive is from either a spammer or a lonely or broke young USA domiciled female looking for company. At 72 years old I am not such a fool as to be flattered by the latter and feel pestered by the former. So I now "un-connect" them upon receipt of the first spam post in my timeline, or receipt of a list of rubbish domains by DM, of which I have received several.

Sadly, my only recourse is to market my wares professionally, protect my own business reputation, keep building my double-opted-in mailing lists and keep a safe distance between my business and the scammers, spammers and rank amateurs.

 

[oldtimer]

There is no central agency with the authority to act. So how can your idea be implemented?

Marketing and making sales is not so easy and clear cut no matter how we go about it. Advertising in general is a form of spam in a way that our brains are spammed by the ads that are pounded into our subconscious over and over until they become ingrained into our long term memory whether we like it or not. As part of a capitalistic and open market economy we have learned to live with being bombarded with ads to the extent that they provide something that we might find useful and that as long as the they are done in good taste and are not too intrusive or deceptive.

So when it comes to domain names the idea is to have the marketing and outbounding done by professional companies that are at least bound by some standards and limits. What is going to create legitimacy and authority for such companies is going to be the results that are achieved for domainers who haven't had any luck getting anywhere on their own through outbounding. Of course there are still going to be some rogue domainers who are going to continue with their own spamming, but they will be in a small minority once most domainers start using the legitimate domain marketing companies for outbounding.

Nevertheless some of the details here are up for debate and have to be ironed out later, but anything that we can do to clean up all the spamming mess is better than doing nothing and continuing with the negative atmosphere that currently exists.

IMO

 

[gold lover]

Thank you

 

[Mike Goodman]

@oldtimer I agree that the situation is as you describe it. It is the solution you propose I find at best implausible. Who is going to be the arbiter of what these new companies send and to whom? A new international advisory committee? What if individual domainers disagree? How long will it take to set up then how much longer to prove its effectiveness?

Why international? I'm in the UK for starters. Looking at the grammer of much that is written on these hallowed boards, not everybody is a native English speaker and there are certainly some from the Indian subcontinent plus from several European countries, Asian countries and Australasia. None of us would be answerable to any solely USA institution.

Domaining as an industry is still too small to get enough of a hearing from the likes of W3C and ICANN bodies and their subcommittees. To them, so what if the domaining industry gets itself a bad name and self-destructs? Who, as far as they are concerned, is going to miss it? So where to from here? N.B. I understand the arguments. Let us, please, not have a page or several of explanations of how valuable we are. I am converted already. You need to tell ICANN et al.

In the meanwhile, I think the unwilling recipients and the member organisations the unwilling recipients belong to will find their own solutions. Beginning with the social media organisations banning such activities and insisting anybody who wishes to approach their members do so via their own internal, fee collecting, existing mechanisms. That will solve more than the domain name spamming and is overdue anyway.

Soon afterwards the RBL lists will be bolstered by a new membership of domain name spammers and email hosts will be closing their accounts. As has happened with sexual "enhancement" therapies, a prince has given me a few million bucks to disperse scams and other antisocial activities.

Nothing, as you so rightly note, is going to completely ban all of the idiots who think they can gain an edge but compare how the early days of penis enlargement therapies was seen as a laugh by many has become almost universally unacceptable. Lists of poor quality domain names aren't even slightly amusing and will very likely follow the same course.

All of the above is likely to happen before agreement can be reached on how some system of "independent" spamming companies can be agreed and the first companies appointed. And if it happens after those companies have started work, how will they be recompensed for the inevitable financial losses they incur so soon after startup?

So, to get the ball rolling, the best we can probably do for now is to tell the social media moderators or other organisations we belong to when we receive domain name (and other) spam.

 

[Jv1999]

It's not spamming, get over yourselves. It's not moral, but hey -- if you didn't realize it, BIG companies are doing exactly that.

They mail out "promotions" "renewal reminders" "REGISTRATIONS." How often have you received unsolicited MAIL and EMAILS from Credit Card companies asking you to apply? Loans? ETC!

Just because you're small time and are emailing people doesn't mean it's not being done en masse by large companies. Just because their envelopes and graphics are nicer... doesn't mean you're doing different things.

 

[oldtimer]

So, to get the ball rolling, the best we can probably do for now is to tell the social media moderators or other organisations we belong to when we receive domain name (and other) spam.

When you are on a domainers forum you got to put your domainer hat on and ask yourself how can domainers be able to present their domains to narrowly targeted end users who could benefit from those domains without coming across as scammers and spammers.

I myself would probably be using the services of a professional Domain Marketing Company to promote couple of my domains if such company existed and believe that if everyone else also did the same thing it would cut down on a lot of the spamming that is going on right now once the domains that are going to be outbounded are filtered for suitability and usability for certain end users.

Nevertheless that's just how I feel about this situation, but I am not saying that I have all the answers or that such endeavor is guaranteed to work, it's just an idea after all.

IMO

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

here's a trick. use bogus email address as a customer. 9 times out of 10 whomever you reach out to will be selling a product or service.

Play it off like you are a customer interested in whatever they are selling.

Chances are you own and want to sell a domain that's related to their business.

Tell them you read about their product or service called "123 tech" so you typed it into the address bar 123tech.com and was "confused at what you found." ask if that is their website.

If you have a sales lander, make it even more a concern for them and tell them you are worried because you submitted your personal info on that website thinking it was theirs.

It goes without saying, the above method? Tread carefully.

Always use VPN or proxies with high anonymous level.

before you log into your Gmail or Yahoo.

If you ever plan on contacting these people again using a different email address it's probably smart to change the MAC address of your pc or laptop with every move you make.

with any luck. they will have a look at 123tech.com and submit an offer.

in this game of cat and mouse it's always best for the enduser to contact you not the other way around.

They will never know your domain exists unless you give them the scent of it.

 

[Mike Goodman]

using the services of a professional Domain Marketing Company

That is another solution altogether. You may just have identified a big gap in the market for a professional marketing & PR company that understands domain name marketing. There may well be lots of takers within the group who currently rely upon landers and/or advertising only.

But I can't see the people who think making complete nuisances of themselves is OK paying a third party to up their ethical standards. They don't even recognise the fact that deliberate spamming is bad marketing, a nuisance and unethical, as the next quote amply illustrates.

BIG companies are doing exactly that.

Big companies who did that on this side of the pond would open themselves up to some very hefty fines. It is illegal. They don't do it. I am not familiar with marketing law or practices in North America.

here's a trick. use bogus

Sounds like a lot more trouble than doing it all ethically in the first place! And for lower returns. Those folk are not going to join your mailing lists. They are not going to be repeat customers. They are not going to be introducing their associates.

Ethical marketing offers tremendous benefits. Not least, it enables you to move your higher value domains a lot quicker and for the best available prices. It gains respect, helping you to stand out from the whole swamp of "me too" offerings out there. It enhances the opportunities to attract brokerage assignments. Some will even sign up for your newsletter, so you can send regular updates - think of the kudos if you'd been the first to tell them about GDPR and what it meant for their own marketing efforts, as an instance - without being blacklisted. Not to mention the aforementioned opportunities for referrals and introductions.

 

[lock]

I have had to prove in past with telco /isp that complaints about spam have been subscribers to a program web site. I was lucky as had to prove a few dozen and did but wasn't looking pretty. I am very careful about outbound as these people in domain field have never subscribed.

 

[s.g]

CASL is a new anti-spam law that will apply to all electronic messages (i.e. email, texts) organizations send in connection with a “commercial activity.” Its key feature requires Canadian and global organizations that send commercial electronic messages (CEMs) within, from or to Canada to receive consent from recipients before sending messages.

How can this be used in real life?

It sounds great in theory but in reality it might end up where most pages of big fat workplace manuals tend to remain - unread, unused, and unenforced.

It's like telling people they can order a random stranger to talk to them on an airplane, but he or she will likely start talking to them even without this explicit permission (obtained days or weeks before the flight; privacy protection aside, securing it would be nearly impossible, time- and efficiency-wise).

Plus, as this is a Canadian concept which is meant to affect the rest of the world, what if each country creates its own unique version of this opt-in database and rules?

More big fat manuals and tons of bureaucracy, while ordinary people and businesses will continue communicating like they normally do. Not many will read those manuals because both sides are often doing this, and both side will have to ignore or bypass the new rules every once a while.

Like patent trollers and Freedom of Information Act abusers, the upcoming communication compliance "consultants" and so-called e-activists will have one more weapon in their arsenal to bully business owners and government departments about many previously organic B2B connections and customer-biz enquires.

A worldwide standard needs to be created, not random countries presenting their random ideas; however tough and efficient those ideas might sound.

Because of limited manpower and unlimited international clashes (each time a new country shows off how smart their in/out/transit anti spam rules are), no country-based policy will be tough or efficient.

Until experts from the UN (or from an equally international group/NGO/org) step in, there will be no real solution.

 

[BoGoKing]

When you are on a domainers forum you got to put your domainer hat on and ask yourself how can domainers be able to present their domains to narrowly targeted end users who could benefit from those domains without coming across as scammers and spammers.

I myself would probably be using the services of a professional Domain Marketing Company to promote couple of my domains if such company existed and believe that if everyone else also did the same thing it would cut down on a lot of the spamming that is going on right now once the domains that are going to be outbounded are filtered for suitability and usability for certain end users.

Nevertheless that's just how I feel about this situation, but I am not saying that I have all the answers or that such endeavor is guaranteed to work, it's just an idea after all.

IMO

Oldtimer...i use to be in the professional debt collection business, and collecting a debt legally and in accordance with federal regulation (FDCPA) is very similar to selling a domain. While snail mail and email were our initial contact, it was the professional telecall that resulted in a debt being paid or not. Required reading for debt collectors was/is "The Art of Negotiation". This is the very same book sales people in most industries are required or should read.

I've recently acquired 800+ .realty domains and plan to use a plethora of "outbound" marketing strategies from targeted email, to snail mail via glossy post card to targeted telesales.

I just finished listening to a podcast by Alvin Brown where he interviewed Jason Eisner and Yogi Solanki of New Delhi all about "outbound" domain marketing. It was fabulous, and only confirmed what I already new about the process. Anyway, most domainers I run into here can't or simply don't want to do outbound, thus I recommend they seek a professional to do it for them. Always remember, you get what you pay for, and to pay a commission of 20-30% isn't much considering your overall "net back".

Good Luck Oldtimer etal

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

That is another solution altogether. You may just have identified a big gap in the market for a professional marketing & PR company that understands domain name marketing. There may well be lots of takers within the group who currently rely upon landers and/or advertising only.

But I can't see the people who think making complete nuisances of themselves is OK paying a third party to up their ethical standards. They don't even recognise the fact that deliberate spamming is bad marketing, a nuisance and unethical, as the next quote amply illustrates.



Big companies who did that on this side of the pond would open themselves up to some very hefty fines. It is illegal. They don't do it. I am not familiar with marketing law or practices in North America.



Sounds like a lot more trouble than doing it all ethically in the first place! And for lower returns. Those folk are not going to join your mailing lists. They are not going to be repeat customers. They are not going to be introducing their associates.

Ethical marketing offers tremendous benefits. Not least, it enables you to move your higher value domains a lot quicker and for the best available prices. It gains respect, helping you to stand out from the whole swamp of "me too" offerings out there. It enhances the opportunities to attract brokerage assignments. Some will even sign up for your newsletter, so you can send regular updates - think of the kudos if you'd been the first to tell them about GDPR and what it meant for their own marketing efforts, as an instance - without being blacklisted. Not to mention the aforementioned opportunities for referrals and introductions.

I wasn't exactly "hoping" they will sign up for my newsletter. matter of fact I don't even have one! lol but I do hope they get an inkling of the existence of my domain name that they should have on their radar.

There's more than one way to skin a rat. (is this even appropriate here? lol but you get my drift.)

I say so long as you are safe and protected my anonymity you gotta fight to get the eyes of endusers on your domain when they otherwise would not have.

up until you contacted them. I can guarantee you your domain wasn't even on their radar.

No one in this discussion ever mentions that the spammer who reached out to me actually brought to light info that I should have known all this time. Yea sure I have spam. I hate getting it. But I can appreciate the "entrepreneurial" spirit.

One man's spammer is another man's information provider.

At thee end of the day. It's easy enough to click BLOCK or send the email to your spam box. problem solved.

You would need to be a "special" kind of person to actually go and chase after said spammer. Like seriously. You don't anything better to do with your time? lol

I actually feel bad for most spammers. They must know that the email they are sending even if they are using some bulk spamming software will end up in the spam box and yet they do it and take a shot at 1% response if that.

You tell me. How many of use would do this? Not me. lol

In any other "job" where you can only expect a 1% response or chance and yet you keep going. most would call that job and that person. "Noble" would they not? lol I know. Sound ridiculous right?

Jobs like that guy handing out flyers on the street.
or
those costumed hero's in Times Square charging $10 for photos with them.
or
even that pandhandler
or
the guy wiping car windows at stoplights.
or
the guy selling bottled water or oranges on the side of the road.
or
that guy selling Swipes on his metrocard in NYC Subways for half price. lol
or
that hot nuts guy selling hot nuts on NYC. lol

I've seen them all! lol