domains Outbound = Spamming (Really???)

[equity78]

It seems like some domain investors continue to see outbound marketing as spam. It's a complicated topic: Outbound marketing needs to be done properly, making sure it does not violate the […]

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[CraigD]

The number one thing a domain investor should avoid is marketing to other domain investors.

 

[karmaco]

Any unsolicited marketing can be considered spam no matter who is doing it. Emailing people double digit amount of times , shoot anything over twice is spammy whether it works or not. Maybe they are buying to get the guy to stop contact who knows

There are valid reasons so many seek to erradicate all the email, text and phone spam that effects everyone.There are valid reasons why people loathe marketers of any kind, especially the classic overkill type.

Smart marketing is more like a gentle tap on the shoulder than a ton of trash dumped on you with bugles playing in the background . People don’t like to be bothered or sold to. Times change, marketing needs to as well.

 

[bmugford]

It depends. There is certainly a point where outbound crosses over into blatant spamming.

When people are pitching endless garbage domains, in an indiscriminate manner, often sending many unsolicited follow-up emails to the same potential buyer, often with fake contact information from a disposable email address....At some point it crosses from something reasonable to blatant spam.

Brad

 

[alcy]

its not complicated
different folk different strokes
some invite jehovah witness for cookie and milk when they knock ..some show them a gun.

same with dn
same with everything else

 

[Dotorium]

wether Domain investor or endusers i think a lot would appreciate being contacted for opportunities, i just contacted one who have TheXXXX .com when XXXX . com was dropped i just contacted him to tell him that XXXX . com was dropped since 2009 because I am a customer of the brand he registered it at 10$ and send me 500$ without asking him nothing...

 

[NickB]

Why is it that people have a problem with outbound? I have been doing it in other fields for years and very very rarely get an F off or any aggressive replies.....even when I dabbled at it with domains this was the case

Most people really must be sending out awful emails, crap domains and just hoping for the best......

If done right the worst you should get is being ignored or a reply saying remove me from your mailing list, maybe a polite no thanks and if your lucky a reply asking how much or the jackpot is them hitting the BIN on your lander........

If your getting really bad response you need to take at long hard look at how your going about things......

I get emails from people trying to sell me their domains and they are using a personal email address - I mean WTF - how is anyone going to take you seriously if you do this?

Also there is no social proof - no professional signature with a LinkedIn profile, no contact phone number, a lot of the time not even their full name.....

The more information you provide that is verifiable, the more trustworthy you come across - especially when you are not speaking to that person and building a relationship with them

 

[Mike Goodman]

The tiny 1% can turn your business to a positive sign. Try to be honest, simple, polite and professional. Doing that immediately you avoid spam zone. Be careful about trademarks too.

Not nearly enough. I couldn't give a damn how "polite" a spammer is. I am a domainer, The last thing I want is emails offering me a load of crap from other "domainers".

Before sending even ONE email out, the research has to be done. Is the domain I am offering a good fit for that business? Have I got the correct person in the organisation to write to?

If the answer to either of these is no, do not send that email. If you do you are spamming. Full stop. You are making a nuisance of yourself and you are bringing this industry into disrepute.

Marketing means working. A lot of background work goes in before any attempt at making contact, if the business being marketed is to grow and become successful. For direct marketing, as contrasted with advertising, the work is harder, more detailed, but the outcomes tend to be more bountiful.

If you are not prepared to do the work, the best thing is to stick to landing pages or advertising features. Do not send spam emails and do not make cold phone calls.

IMO.

 

[bmugford]

Here is a good example of spamming.

1 unsolicited email, that is not compliant with the CAN-SPAM act despite what it says.
3 follow-up emails (so far).

This is not "outbound". This is spamming.

Brad


1.) On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:44 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi there,

Would you be interested in buying the domain Dogwalker.co?
It recently got listed for sale with us at a reasonable price.


Regards,
Rob Emison
-------------------------------------------------

This is an advertisement mail strictly on the guidelines of CAN-SPAM act of 2003. Clearly mentioned the source mail-id of this mail and this is no way misleading in any form. We have found your mail address through our own efforts by web search and not through any illegal way. If you find this mail unsolicited, please reply with "Remove" and we will take care that you do not receive any further promotional mail.


2.) On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 4:48 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi there,

Just wondering if you got my last mail?

Regards,
Rob


3.) On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 5:08 PM Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi there,

I would really appreciate if you can take a minute and let me know if you would be interested in the domain name?

Regards,
Rob


4.) On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 Rob Emison <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi there,

Can I please get a response?

Regard,
Rob

 

[biggie]

Hi

to me, using the term outbound, is like "putting lipstick on a pig" in effort to "legitimize" the sending of unsolicited emails.

the practice has gotten out of hand
and it seems every newbie that joins, asks the same question and gets the same answer

how do i contact end-users?
send them an email.

now, in between those two lines, should be all the intricate details, including what to do and what not, to do.

but, how many are really interested in details?
1. they go check appraisal value,
2. then go register,
3 then start sending emails.....majority of which are for domains that are still under 60 day lock.

meanwhile, those who give advice on how to send solicitations, rarely, if ever, ask ...
"what domain are you trying to sell and who are your prospects"?

simple questions like that, can at least, reduce the crap that goes out to these unsuspecting victims who are about to receive an email from someone, who prolly can't even write a complete thought that is grammatically correct.

just saying,

if you take examples of how some write their questions or replies here, sometimes you can barely understand wtf they are trying to say.....
and in that case, what makes you think the emails they send, will be understood as intended?

why should we care?
because it's reflection of who domainers are.
bad enough domain holders have to get over the "domain squatters" label, hump,
and now ya'll spamming too!

hopefully though, all that doesn't sound cruel, but i read what you write, and if you got to spam, at least learn the fundamentals, first.
then, even if the recipients don't buy your name, they still may be impressed with the correspondence.
and maybe, if all the spammers followed suit, then at least the outside world would see that, hey, some of these spammers can write nice solicitations.

puff, puff...ahh

imo...

 

[oldtimer]

The less than one percent or so of the recipients who might end up buying a domain that was presented to them through outbound might actually be happy that they received an email that let them know a domain that they could use was available for sale, but this could be a big turn off to the other 99% of the recipients who received such emails and so there could be a Collective Effect that outbound emails can have on the recipients who are no longer going to evaluate each individual email that they have received for domains for sale, but rather are going to look at the whole Domain Industry in a negative light because of this.

Now it might be a different story when it comes to premium domain names that are marketed to a handful of potential end users who could benefit greatly by owning such domains, but other than that it's probably safe to say that:

99% of outbound email is going to be considered as a nuisance by 99% of the recipients.

IMO

 

[Samer]

wether Domain investor or endusers i think a lot would appreciate being contacted for opportunities, i just contacted one who have TheXXXX .com when XXXX . com was dropped i just contacted him to tell him that XXXX . com was dropped since 2009 because I am a customer of the brand he registered it at 10$ and send me 500$ without asking him nothing...

This anecdote is worthy of its own thread

Thank you for sharing!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

A very informative post @equity78 - thank you.
Anyone even considering outbound should read carefully all the requirements you clearly cover.
Interesting view re domainer to domainer. I am not sure I would go as far as never, but I am surprised, and disappointed, how often people suggest to me names in sectors I never have had any interest whatsoever in, in fact sometimes even in areas that I personally have publicly stated I do not invest in.
Thanks again.
Bob

 

[equity78]

The Definition of Spam
Associated Documents

Consumer Protection

Email Marketing FAQs

Mailers -v- Spammers

Glossary
The word "Spam" as applied to Email means "Unsolicited Bulk Email".

Unsolicited means that the Recipient has not granted verifiable permission for the message to be sent. Bulk means that the message is sent as part of a larger collection of messages, all having substantively identical content.
A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk.

• Unsolicited Email is normal email
  (examples: first contact enquiries, job enquiries, sales enquiries)
  
  
• Bulk Email is normal email
  (examples: subscriber newsletters, customer communications, discussion lists)
  

Technical Definition of Spam

An electronic message is "spam" if (A) the recipient's personal identity and context are irrelevant because the message is equally applicable to many other potential recipients; AND (B) the recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable permission for it to be sent.


Understanding the Spam Issue

Spam is an issue about consent, not content. Whether the Unsolicited Bulk Email ("UBE") message is an advert, a scam, porn, a begging letter or an offer of a free lunch, the content is irrelevant - if the message was sent unsolicited and in bulk then the message is spam.

Spam is not a sub-set of UBE, it is not "UBE that is also a scam or that doesn't contain an unsubscribe link". All email sent unsolicited and in bulk is Spam.

This distinction is important because legislators spend inordinate amounts of time attempting to regulate the content of spam messages, and in doing so come up against free speech issues, without realizing that the spam issue is solely about consent.

Various jurisdictions have implemented legislation to control what they call "spam". One particular example is US S.877 (CAN-SPAM Act 2004). Each law addresses "spam" in different ways, and as a consequence, often has different definitions of what they cover, whether they call it "spam" or not. Spamhaus uses the industry standard definition "Unsolicited Bulk Email" which underlines that "it's not about content, it's about consent". As such, arguments as to whether Unsolicited Bulk Email messages are covered under CAN-SPAM or are compliant with CAN-SPAM, are entirely irrelevant.

Important facts about Unsolicited Bulk Email:

(1) The sending of Unsolicited Bulk Email ("UBE") is banned by all Internet service providers worldwide.

(2) Spamhaus's anti-spam blocklist, the SBL, used by more than 3 Billion Internet users, is based on the internationally-accepted definition of Spam as "Unsolicited Bulk Email". Therefore anyone sending UBE on the Internet, regardless of whether the content is commercial or not, illegal or not, is a sender of spam - and thus a spammer. All senders of UBE need to be fully aware that (A) they are breaking their ISP's Terms of Business contracts and they will lose their Internet accounts and access if they send UBE and (B) they will be placed on the Spamhaus Block List (SBL) if they send UBE.

https://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/

 

[BrandChimp]

CASL is a new anti-spam law that will apply to all electronic messages (i.e. email, texts) organizations send in connection with a “commercial activity.” Its key feature requires Canadian and global organizations that send commercial electronic messages (CEMs) within, from or to Canada to receive consent from recipients before sending messages.

 

[blogspotter]

It is only spam if it is from a third world country in broken English.

Email with a signature like:

Jim M Donahue
(401)-344-4488

And it is outreach.

 

[equity78]

It depends. There is certainly a point where outbound crosses over into blatant spamming.

When people are pitching endless garbage domains, in an indiscriminate manner, often sending many unsolicited follow-up emails to the same potential buyer, often with fake contact information from a disposable email address....At some point it crosses from something reasonable to blatant spam.

Brad

Agree and hopefully all those doing things wrong will wise up. Here is the one thing that someone who worked for a spam blacklist agency told me a few years back.

"Spam is never going away, the reason being it works. People make money and they are not going to stop making money."

Hopefully those in domaining can do things the right way and are only offering truly quality names. I suspect currently many are not meeting the quality quota.

 

[FolioTeam]

Why is it that people have a problem with outbound? I have been doing it in other fields for years and very very rarely get an F off or any aggressive replies.....even when I dabbled at it with domains this was the case

Most people really must be sending out awful emails, crap domains and just hoping for the best......

If done right the worst you should get is being ignored or a reply saying remove me from your mailing list, maybe a polite no thanks and if your lucky a reply asking how much or the jackpot is them hitting the BIN on your lander........

If your getting really bad response you need to take at long hard look at how your going about things......

I get emails from people trying to sell me their domains and they are using a personal email address - I mean WTF - how is anyone going to take you seriously if you do this?

Also there is no social proof - no professional signature with a LinkedIn profile, no contact phone number, a lot of the time not even their full name.....

The more information you provide that is verifiable, the more trustworthy you come across - especially when you are not speaking to that person and building a relationship with them

In other fields, there's is the notion that what you are offering is of some value, wasn't stolen or an outright scam. Not that people don't get swindled in those other industries.

But in domaining, a typical lay person feels like they are being preyed upon or ripped off one way or the other. Hence, the cybersquatting tags.

It also doesn't help that some domainers do some despicable things in the name of outbounding which gives the entire industry a bad name.

 

[Mike Goodman]

@oldtimer how do clients get to know what our central hub is? How is membership by domainers, especially the loose canons, enforced? I don't believe it can be. Just scanning through some of the posts in these forums tells me there are too many too idle or stupid to bother reading or too thick skinned to take any notice. There is no central agency with the authority to act. So how can your idea be implemented?

There will be pockets, such as LinkedIn, where the members will soon tire and start to complain in numbers, of being bombarded by utterly irrelevant and useless domain names in lists and such organisations are then likely to warn, prevent from posting or ban the spammers. But that is only on a limited scale in proportion to the overall problem.

I have to say it is a hell of a bad rash on LinkedIn at the moment. It seems every other contact request I receive is from either a spammer or a lonely or broke young USA domiciled female looking for company. At 72 years old I am not such a fool as to be flattered by the latter and feel pestered by the former. So I now "un-connect" them upon receipt of the first spam post in my timeline, or receipt of a list of rubbish domains by DM, of which I have received several.

Sadly, my only recourse is to market my wares professionally, protect my own business reputation, keep building my double-opted-in mailing lists and keep a safe distance between my business and the scammers, spammers and rank amateurs.

 

[equity78]

Any unsolicited marketing can be considered spam no matter who is doing it. Emailing people double digit amount of times , shoot anything over twice is spammy whether it works or not. Maybe they are buying to get the guy to stop contact who knows

There are valid reasons so many seek to erradicate all the email, text and phone spam that effects everyone.There are valid reasons why people loathe marketers of any kind, especially the classic overkill type.

Smart marketing is more like a gentle tap on the shoulder than a ton of trash dumped on you with bugles playing in the background . People don’t like to be bothered or sold to. Times change, marketing needs to as well.

People are sold to every day in many ways. I agree with you about the multiple contacts, that would be annoying. Now if the person is operating correctly there is link to note how to stop being contacted and if they don't the penalties under Can-Spam are great.

Most people loathe domain investors too, I was on a forum once where a pack of wolves were talking about how domain investors should be killed. Not stop the practice stop the living.

The bottom line is there is a right way to do outbound marketing and a wrong way.

 

[Dotorium]

No most domain investors don't appreciate it, there are private groups dedicated to ridiculing and or exposing people who email them. I would love to see the facts and details behind your story but if true it's an outlier.

I sent you the details plz keep privacy thanks

 

[pb]

Any unsolicited marketing can be considered spam no matter who is doing it. Emailing people double digit amount of times , shoot anything over twice is spammy whether it works or not. Maybe they are buying to get the guy to stop contact who knows

If I received a polite mail offering me a domain, I would probably just archive it or delete it. But If I received a follow-up to that e-mail, I would definitely mark it as spam. There's only so much that one can get away with...

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

not that I condone spamming. I always wondered exactly how people trying to sell me domains that are expiring or are at auction can contact me once and I send them to spam box and then a different email sends me the same email word for word.


How do they do it? easy.

you can buy packs of 100-1000 of email addresses. you can even pay a little more for aged email address.

All are phone verified.

want to send out bulk emails trying to sell a domain? use a purchased email address that only cost you 10 cents per email address.

10 cents to send out spam with complete anonymity to say 100,000+ people?

wouldn't you spend that? to spam safely?

The problem is no matter how anonymous your methods. ultimately you will expose yourself via the domain you promote. even if you have privacy on it.

If the domain is hosted somewhere? or is at an auction platform? Think platforms won't snitch on you?

And then of course the people you are spamming can report you to Google. Ever wonder why a domain gets blacklisted? There you go.

word the email like below.

"hey buddy. I'm a domainer like you. I know you have domains with similar keywords as the auction below. I've been keeping my eye on it for a couple days. I put a bid on it. You might want to throw a bid on it. It's so cheap right now."

www.godaddy.com/auctions/domain.com/

Always avoid trying to sell your own domain or promoting your own domain. That's 100% spam.

But word things like you were interested in purchasing a domain and just wanted to share it to a friend or complete stranger????? blah blah blah.

lol probably still is spam. well at least the email address is a throwaway right?

or word the email like you are interested in their own domain name just be creative.

Me? I wouldn't risk it even though I'd know how to do it. I just use Linkedin and have my connections make the introductions. I can honestly say with my 19,000+ followers on there that whenever I come across someone on there I have not connected with and want to contact about a domain 9 times outta 10 I have a connection who is connected to them somehow. at least 2 or 3. This is the best way to get around not knowing someone and contacting them out of the blue to sell a domain.

Reputation is EVERYTHING in this wacky business called Domaining.

also............if banks like Capital One or super private or supposedly private sites like Ashley Madison gets data breaches.

what makes you believe sites like Namejet or Godaddy or Sedo won't or hasn't already had data breaches?

Think there isn't a database for all the emails of their user's accounts?

Think again! It's probably all on the darkweb.


This is how they get our email addresses even if our domains have whois privacy since day one.

 

[alcy]

u guys know that a good 50% of names domainers spam us with are not even regged yet...next time check...happened to me ton of times..

check for fun..do not reg of course. they are not even worth the regfee.. let alone the 100s they ask for lol

 

[kite26]

Only a small percentage of people, around 1% or less, gives aggressive answers. The rest ignores, replies positively or negatively. So, I think that I am doing it well. I agree, outbound must be done properly. If not, can be dangerous.