DAN.com

Outbound = Spamming (Really???)

Labeled as domains in Domain Industry News, started by equity78, Nov 15, 2020

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  1. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Well that happens all the time like @karmaco said people don't want to be sold to, Namepros considers that spam.
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. DigitalRoar

    DigitalRoar Investor & Creator VIP

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    More like unsolicited but still spam. Either way, inbounds are always better as you have more leverage.
     
  3. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    Why is it that people have a problem with outbound? I have been doing it in other fields for years and very very rarely get an F off or any aggressive replies.....even when I dabbled at it with domains this was the case

    Most people really must be sending out awful emails, crap domains and just hoping for the best......

    If done right the worst you should get is being ignored or a reply saying remove me from your mailing list, maybe a polite no thanks and if your lucky a reply asking how much or the jackpot is them hitting the BIN on your lander........

    If your getting really bad response you need to take at long hard look at how your going about things......

    I get emails from people trying to sell me their domains and they are using a personal email address - I mean WTF - how is anyone going to take you seriously if you do this?

    Also there is no social proof - no professional signature with a LinkedIn profile, no contact phone number, a lot of the time not even their full name.....

    The more information you provide that is verifiable, the more trustworthy you come across - especially when you are not speaking to that person and building a relationship with them
     
  4. kite26

    kite26 Fearless Bird VIP

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    Only a small percentage of people, around 1% or less, gives aggressive answers. The rest ignores, replies positively or negatively. So, I think that I am doing it well. I agree, outbound must be done properly. If not, can be dangerous.
     
  5. NameDeck

    NameDeck NotElected.com VIP

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    So yeah. That puts 99,99% of domainers involved in outbound in the spammmer category.

    Good writeup on your site though. One thing you didn't cover is regarding this:

    How to overcome this? It's hardly ( n )ever being discussed. There are ways. Ways to make it work and follow the definition of solicited email.

    It's doable to do outbound following the rules/law. It's easier neglecting the quote mentioned, way easier actually. You will sell. You will be fine 99% of the time. But... You will still be spamming.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  6. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thanks for the reply, I think with the SpamHaus definition it says it also must be bulk.

    So if you owned and operated on NameDeck.net and I acquired the .com. I would only send an email to you if I did outbound (I don't).

    It would meet all the CAN-Spam requirements, and you may say screw off but I would not have spammed you. The law is what matters imo. People saying I did not want an email so it's spam is not true in the eyes of the law.
     
  7. NameDeck

    NameDeck NotElected.com VIP

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    People should take note of this. This is how it should be done. That's professional, following CAN-spam and industry regulation of whats concidered to be spam. Great addition!

    byw, thanks for reminding me I missed out on the .com when it dropped ;)
     
  8. biggie

    biggie GreenFriendly.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    to me, using the term outbound, is like "putting lipstick on a pig" in effort to "legitimize" the sending of unsolicited emails.

    the practice has gotten out of hand
    and it seems every newbie that joins, asks the same question and gets the same answer

    how do i contact end-users?
    send them an email.

    now, in between those two lines, should be all the intricate details, including what to do and what not, to do.

    but, how many are really interested in details?
    1. they go check appraisal value,
    2. then go register,
    3 then start sending emails.....majority of which are for domains that are still under 60 day lock.

    meanwhile, those who give advice on how to send solicitations, rarely, if ever, ask ...
    "what domain are you trying to sell and who are your prospects"?

    simple questions like that, can at least, reduce the crap that goes out to these unsuspecting victims who are about to receive an email from someone, who prolly can't even write a complete thought that is grammatically correct.

    just saying,

    if you take examples of how some write their questions or replies here, sometimes you can barely understand wtf they are trying to say.....
    and in that case, what makes you think the emails they send, will be understood as intended?

    why should we care?
    because it's reflection of who domainers are.
    bad enough domain holders have to get over the "domain squatters" label, hump,
    and now ya'll spamming too!

    hopefully though, all that doesn't sound cruel, but i read what you write, and if you got to spam, at least learn the fundamentals, first.
    then, even if the recipients don't buy your name, they still may be impressed with the correspondence.
    and maybe, if all the spammers followed suit, then at least the outside world would see that, hey, some of these spammers can write nice solicitations.

    puff, puff...ahh

    imo...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  9. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It depends. There is certainly a point where outbound crosses over into blatant spamming.

    When people are pitching endless garbage domains, in an indiscriminate manner, often sending many unsolicited follow-up emails to the same potential buyer, often with fake contact information from a disposable email address....At some point it crosses from something reasonable to blatant spam.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  10. kite26

    kite26 Fearless Bird VIP

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    +1 It's a grey zone. Sometimes black, sometimes white. It's up to you to keep it white.
     
  11. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The less than one percent or so of the recipients who might end up buying a domain that was presented to them through outbound might actually be happy that they received an email that let them know a domain that they could use was available for sale, but this could be a big turn off to the other 99% of the recipients who received such emails and so there could be a Collective Effect that outbound emails can have on the recipients who are no longer going to evaluate each individual email that they have received for domains for sale, but rather are going to look at the whole Domain Industry in a negative light because of this.

    Now it might be a different story when it comes to premium domain names that are marketed to a handful of potential end users who could benefit greatly by owning such domains, but other than that it's probably safe to say that:

    99% of outbound email is going to be considered as a nuisance by 99% of the recipients.

    IMO
     
  12. kite26

    kite26 Fearless Bird VIP

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    The tiny 1% can turn your business to a positive sign. Try to be honest, simple, polite and professional. Doing that immediately you avoid spam zone. Be careful about trademarks too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  13. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Agree and hopefully all those doing things wrong will wise up. Here is the one thing that someone who worked for a spam blacklist agency told me a few years back.

    "Spam is never going away, the reason being it works. People make money and they are not going to stop making money."

    Hopefully those in domaining can do things the right way and are only offering truly quality names. I suspect currently many are not meeting the quality quota.
     
  14. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think that the best solution would be instead of thousands of domainers sending outbound everyday to have a few domain marketing companies that would contact potential end users on behalf of the domainers for a modest fee, at least this way there could be some standards as to the quality and usefulness of the domains that are going to be marketed and the domain marketing companies are probably going to have much better luck reaching the decision makers and are probably going to be taken a lot more seriously.

    I know that you can hire a broker to do this for you, but most brokers only accept high value premium domains, but a domain marketing company can help domainers with a much wider range of quality and uses.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  15. The Durfer

    The Durfer Top Contributor VIP Gold Account

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    wow, i didnt know outbound was canned ham. hmmmm.

    image-product_spam-classic-12oz-420x420.png

    ive heard its good fried. Never have tried it. hmmm something to do. cool. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  16. gold lover

    gold lover Established Member

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    I guess it will depend on your approach and how persistent one is:xf.smile::glasses:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  17. Mytz.com

    Mytz.com Top 4L [email protected] ieie.com CuTu.com NeSu.com KKiK.com VIP Gold Account

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    I rarely feel successful
     
  18. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Having a "Domain Marketing Company" doing the outbound for domainers will probably bring some order to this spamming mess when it comes to end users and most likely will help domainers become more successful with making more sales by providing more credibility for their domains through a more central hub for doing outbound.

    Although we still have to think of a way to stop those turkeys who want to spam other domainers and offer them the same domain in so many other extensions. -_-

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  19. FolioTeam

    FolioTeam AMDB.tv VIP

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    In other fields, there's is the notion that what you are offering is of some value, wasn't stolen or an outright scam. Not that people don't get swindled in those other industries.

    But in domaining, a typical lay person feels like they are being preyed upon or ripped off one way or the other. Hence, the cybersquatting tags.

    It also doesn't help that some domainers do some despicable things in the name of outbounding which gives the entire industry a bad name.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  20. Mike Goodman

    Mike Goodman Established Member

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    Not nearly enough. I couldn't give a damn how "polite" a spammer is. I am a domainer, The last thing I want is emails offering me a load of crap from other "domainers".

    Before sending even ONE email out, the research has to be done. Is the domain I am offering a good fit for that business? Have I got the correct person in the organisation to write to?

    If the answer to either of these is no, do not send that email. If you do you are spamming. Full stop. You are making a nuisance of yourself and you are bringing this industry into disrepute.

    Marketing means working. A lot of background work goes in before any attempt at making contact, if the business being marketed is to grow and become successful. For direct marketing, as contrasted with advertising, the work is harder, more detailed, but the outcomes tend to be more bountiful.

    If you are not prepared to do the work, the best thing is to stick to landing pages or advertising features. Do not send spam emails and do not make cold phone calls.

    IMO.
     
  21. Theydon

    Theydon Established Member

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    In my opinion there is a correlation between spam and set up time.

    Those who want to contact companies at volume and as quickly as possible are more likely to spam.

    Those who spend the time to research the market, presenting a name that can clearly add value, via individual emails to decision makers (with unsubscribe/opt out) are more likely to fall in to a well coordinated outbound campaign. But can be considered also as spam or unwanted email.

    The latter can provide ultimate value to an end user or be seen as an inconvenience - it will therefore always be a case by case situation. However, done professionally, it should land lightly and not result in most cases in negative feedback.
     
  22. Mike Goodman

    Mike Goodman Established Member

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    I'd take this a serious step further. Those who contact at volume are spamming. Those who contact quickly (i.e. without doing the research) are spamming. It really is quite that simple.
     
  23. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unfortunately those who cast a wide net and send mass emails with deceptive titles that persuade the recipients to open those emails are going to have a certain level of success simply due to the sheer number of emails that are sent and thus are encouraged to do even more spams and use even more deceptive titles to catch the attention of a few unsuspecting recipients and in such a scenario those who spam think of themselves as winners due to their ill gotten success and think of everyone else who wants to abide by the rules as losers or lazy.

    In my opinion the only way that this Industry can protect itself is by bringing outbounding under a central hub such as what I had suggested about having a few professional "Domain Marketing Companies" doing all the outbounding on behalf of the domainers for a reasonable fee.

    IMO
     
  24. Mike Goodman

    Mike Goodman Established Member

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    @oldtimer how do clients get to know what our central hub is? How is membership by domainers, especially the loose canons, enforced? I don't believe it can be. Just scanning through some of the posts in these forums tells me there are too many too idle or stupid to bother reading or too thick skinned to take any notice. There is no central agency with the authority to act. So how can your idea be implemented?

    There will be pockets, such as LinkedIn, where the members will soon tire and start to complain in numbers, of being bombarded by utterly irrelevant and useless domain names in lists and such organisations are then likely to warn, prevent from posting or ban the spammers. But that is only on a limited scale in proportion to the overall problem.

    I have to say it is a hell of a bad rash on LinkedIn at the moment. It seems every other contact request I receive is from either a spammer or a lonely or broke young USA domiciled female looking for company. At 72 years old I am not such a fool as to be flattered by the latter and feel pestered by the former. So I now "un-connect" them upon receipt of the first spam post in my timeline, or receipt of a list of rubbish domains by DM, of which I have received several.

    Sadly, my only recourse is to market my wares professionally, protect my own business reputation, keep building my double-opted-in mailing lists and keep a safe distance between my business and the scammers, spammers and rank amateurs.
     
  25. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Marketing and making sales is not so easy and clear cut no matter how we go about it. Advertising in general is a form of spam in a way that our brains are spammed by the ads that are pounded into our subconscious over and over until they become ingrained into our long term memory whether we like it or not. As part of a capitalistic and open market economy we have learned to live with being bombarded with ads to the extent that they provide something that we might find useful and that as long as the they are done in good taste and are not too intrusive or deceptive.

    So when it comes to domain names the idea is to have the marketing and outbounding done by professional companies that are at least bound by some standards and limits. What is going to create legitimacy and authority for such companies is going to be the results that are achieved for domainers who haven't had any luck getting anywhere on their own through outbounding. Of course there are still going to be some rogue domainers who are going to continue with their own spamming, but they will be in a small minority once most domainers start using the legitimate domain marketing companies for outbounding.

    Nevertheless some of the details here are up for debate and have to be ironed out later, but anything that we can do to clean up all the spamming mess is better than doing nothing and continuing with the negative atmosphere that currently exists.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020

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