Unstoppable Domains

discuss My 2024 sales + some market perception thoughts.

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twiki

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I haven't posted this kind of stuff for a while, so I guess it's time to make a post.

Will try to keep it brief and informative as possible (chances are, still might get long).

Important note, this is my own perception and experience, that's all. I don't know everything and don't pretend to. My view might (read: will) differ from others', including yours perhaps.

Okay. 2024 has been a good year for me in sales, better than 2023. But there's a caveat as well.


Some bio needed right now, I think:

- For those that don't know what I do in domains: I'm a drop domain investor. Most of my domains are sourced at drop (used to also purchase closeouts but didn't have much success with those). Edit: I'm also a discount seller, many of my names are sold at levels below the full retail price.

- Drop names: My names are typically what falls between the thick fingers of DropCatch, Snapnames, NamePal and most recently Gname (sometimes). As surprisingly as it might seem, I don't do automatic catching - although I could.

Most are manually regged at drop after they become available. Long story - but I like to reflect longer and sometimes I do that even while the domain is available if I hadn't have time to do it through the day. I rarely lose a name by waiting too long like that. I generally tend to see the value where others miss it.

- Anyway, you'd be surprised what falls sometimes between those fingers - especially if you started many years ago. Today? Not that much but there is still value.

Currently you need to scour a LOT to get some good names, and the fun fact is, some of the names I am no longer valuing enough are caught by DC and Gname and the others. But that's cool, helps me digest the value areas of my portfolio somewhat. DC is however much more active than it was, say 3 years ago for example.

- I also do a LOT of handregging lately. Surprisingly perhaps (for me it really was;) handregs have outpaced drops in my own sales for 2024 so I bank more on handregs than drops. But these are unusual times in domaining.

Anyway what this tells about me is that my names are not the top ones. Drop catching by hand is sort of the bottom of the market that still have value. But it works for me. I do enjoy a stable income for a few years already. I focus on great pricing (my names are typically priced say half their retail value) and making some volume to get the revenue. I do invest time in testing, learning and matching pricing with the market for each domain I have - as possible. I do frequent repricing checks.

Okay. Now that I explained what I do and why, let me tell you what I have noticed in 2024 - until now.

1) I have been successful this year primarily because of a series of .com AI handregs that I made right after OpenAI launched ChatGPT. Fresh handregs now make 60% + of my sales, while drops make the rest.

The problem is, it used to be mostly drops. I did however send a lot of metaverse domains while it lasted, and now AI.com domains. Side note I'm a 99% .COM investor.

So this is the spooky caveat - at least currently, depending on some very wise ai .com handregs (trend handregs) that I made. If I would only have the drops, I might be just breaking even of a bit under, perhaps. Which is totally unlike past years.

2) Why did this decline of drop domain sales happen?

Well if you recall the Covid years, 2020, 2021 etc.

There has been a total flood of sales of everyday domains in 2020 / 2021. Everything I had, including questionable ones, were sold. 1k+, $750, $299, even $75 last choice etc etc. Everything was selling.

I was making more than 100% ROI back then (against yearly investment amount) which was very good business. But then in 2022 it all changed / dropped significantly.

The problem is that everyday domains don't sell well anymore, if at all. That is the main reason impacting most investors here, especially the ones that aren't top. And it is related to macro economy (duh). On the contrary, big ticket items especially .AI names are still selling like hot cake.

Well, reason is simple. People and especially SMB owners had money back then, including govt grants and loans sometimes, and they were locked in-house and thinking they had to do something, to make some money while being at home or launching an alternate business etc. This has helped selling a LOT of names. But since then they ran out of money. Not anymore. Might be other factors as well of course, but you get at least part of the drill here.

3) Which domains are most affected and won't sell well?

Unsurprisingly, everyday domains - especially those for which the "right" price point is $500 or less.

However everything I have under $1.5 K is also NOT selling well (clearances, reduced price to flip before renewal etc). I'm currently running some test but I don't think the clearance quick flips at XXX pricing are working anymore.

4) You might ask yourself, will these domains start selling again in the future?

Absolutely, if you ask me.

When the time comes (boom years; lots of cheap money / credit flooding the market), and it will, the XXX price range domains will also start selling pretty nicely. Also when VC's will start again flooding tech startups with easy cash, sure thing: Tech names under 3k will sell great as well (I mean better than now as these are still flowing somewhat). Currently, VCs are spooked and so even these sales are affected. few thousands are a great cost for the average new founder: "Should I pay for servers or the dang domain name instead...?"

The big question is: Do you have enough money to renew them until then? (When the market flips back to up / growth) . I am taking a balanced approach in this line BTW.


5) What changed in terms of dropcatching platforms:

Snapnames is catching far less than before, while DC is still consistent.

And Gname is a rising star (I don't use them because I don't like their model either; but anyway).

The surprise thing is that Snapnames have lost about 300 registrars while GName has increased by a similar number so now they have a higher amount of connections.

I could see through this - SN has sold a good part of their registrars to GN. Don't have any other news source for it but it's pretty transparent.

As a side note, GN caught domains are much, much weaker than what DC gets. So the user base is likely weaker as well. And those domains don't end up in auction at DC; which means, they are most likely captured by their big "partners" - those that have good value.

It's not the everyday domainer or startup founder placing a $59 backorder at DC; to only find themselves locked in a losing battle at auctions where no money is to be made further as many such names are sold at higher than retail price value in auction. This has always been like that though.

6) Handregging. Works for me. But handregging is both a science and an art. I'd say it is the high risk / high reward portion of it. But it depends A LOT on your experience; and how much effort you put into research first of all. If you're a newbie, I would not recommend it. Easiest way to lose large amounts of money fast, because learning the value of domains is a difficult, multi-year and neverending journey.

7) Pricing. Most of my names are priced $1500-3000 although I do have higher priced ones too of course. $2k is about the average.

What differs from the past: When I drop below $1500 to clear some of the names, it doesn't really do much anymore. Just some rare occasional sales here and there for $500 or whatnot which really don't help the bank account much as they aren't as frequent as they were in the past.

So my advice is: Don't reduce prices much as this won't help you. ( Especially NOT under $1.5k I would say, not in this market). Unless you know exactly why you are doing that and what you're going to get for the reduced price.

8) Strategy. I would put the current situation into one word: Survival (keep your names and make something for yourself as well as possible). But it depends - on the money you have at hand.

If you have plenty of funds, you can still gorge on names nowadays; and wait for the good times. But if you have limited amount instead, your best bet is to focus on your best names and renew those while selling and using the funds to cover those renewals.

My own strategy was to survive AND renew my best names AND drop the questionable ones. Keep the cream, ditch the others, make the portfolio supple and simple. With this move, I'm still afloat and making good ROI, not like in the old times but keeps the bank account filled.

For those with similar under $3K names: If you can take your time to really separate the good from the questionable in your portfolio, that would be a smart move nowadays. It's not a time to be heavily bogged down by hard to sell domains, especially with the .com pricing increase lately.

As a side note I currently fluctuate around 2000 names in stock.

P.S. Domaining is for the patient one.

9) .NGTLDs vs .COM. I am a firm .COM investor and believer. Sure there is a lot of potential in the new TLDs as well though. But you have to be consistent in what you do and know why - which is why I am currently sticking to what I do best.

The NGTLD fast growth has taken a lot from .COM sales in last years. But I suspect this will change soon because of the greed of new registries.

I mean, the heck? You register a name for $50 or whatnot, renew for 2 years, build a product on it, then they make it $5000 annual renewal unilaterally. That is like a knife in the gut for such founders.

The greed is high; but on longer term I suspect it will burn these TLDs down to ashes. We've seen greed burning other TLD's back in the days. So those NGTLD registries who keep reasonable pricing (fewer) will still be around; but anyway I suspect a movement back to .COM will happen in next years.

.COM is still king, if you ask me. Although it ain't bad to invest in other TLDs as well, of course - if you really know what you're doing.

10) 2024 sales. I had good success in the first part of the year, summer has been bad but broke even overall, while September has been booming. Overall I'm in good profit.

I have made no sales so far in the first half of October 2024; but I'm not worried. I've seen a similar period of temporary decline in many of the previous years, right about the same time. So I am betting end of October and especially November and December are going to be pretty good in sales. Perhaps not like 2021... but still enough to make decent money if you put your mind and time at it.

11) Future trends. If you can stay tuned to trends and discover them early, some well placed handregs can bring the cheese home, like they did for me. (It also brought the bacon, hehe.) But -again warning- it is not easy to do and you need not be carried away adn register whole lots of names by hand.

12) Passion. I think domaining is, first of all, for those with passion like me. And for the patient.

Even if I'd just break even I would still continue as I know money are made over many years, you need to keep your best names. It is an investment, not a gamble. But passion is what binds it, what makes you want to continue.

Also continuous learning. I have been learning for so many years and I still have a breakthrough each few months which makes me think, I'm nowhere near half learned by now of what I would need to know, but far far less.

13) Landers. I use afternic BIN and will try the make offer ones custom lander in a bit. I stopped using Dan a while ago as it didn't produce results for me (?). Ny names are better sold at BIN if priced correctly, so that strategy worked best. As a side note if you don't have high value items, I'd use a similar strategy, BIN + an affordable price (not dirt cheap - but balanced).

Notes:

- I will try the custom lander + make offer next as well (at Afternic) and see what's what.

- I am still undecided vs. Afternic boost, will still do some testing and see after that. Will post here some results when I'm certain.

14) Buyer perception. I always ask myself, if I would be that buyer (my domain's target), how much would I be willing to pay for this? Surprisingly perhaps, you're going to see that this simple exercise would show the gap that exists between the seller and the buyer perspective. Edit: There is a significant differrence between the two numbers, usually.

Trades are made when either the buyer or the sellers crosses that gap and turns it into a "hand shake - deal completed".

My insight into pricing helped a lot doing those sales because of the above. But there's a caveat too - price your names too low, and you'll spook the customers as they don't know exactly what the value of the domain is. And as such you're conveying lack of value, hence you're actually making less money overall. But taking off just a small slice over that full retail price might help selling better - test and test though.

If you have questions feel free to ask. Note, I'm posting this as I've seen many domainers here over time, especially freshmen, being inspired by the info I share. ( If it's not for you, I apologize for your time reading this. )

TL; DR; Some personal overview over my sales and market and a few tips aimed at beginner to average domainers (not the big fish.)

Thanks!
 
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That's really weird, I expected more enquiries and sales, but since the introduction of the boost, it's been very quiet, while my portfolio looks better than ever. I will wait for Q4 to be completed and if I don't see any improvement, I will defo opt out.
Same here. I currently opted out.

Also sent feedback to my rep about being unhappy about this.

(Rep is a nice and helpful fellow though, not about him personally)
 
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I am currently A/B testing as well, currently opted out. I believe an ideal configuration would be to opt out for country-code top-level domains (ccTLDs) while opting in for .com domains. Unfortunately, this adjustment can only be made at the portfolio level. I'm considering testing the 'boost' feature in hopes of a strong Q4, but I haven't made a final decision yet.
I only have com now, Q4 is the best time to test the boost feature, as Q1 has been dead for me over the last two years. I consistently have sales on Q2, 3 and 4, but not on Q1.
 
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Thank you Twiky. My October has been slow so far but I have opted out of boost and got a 950 sale (.com dropreg) three days later so I'm satisfied :xf.cool:
 
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As a side note, some good news, October is performing as expected.

Got a $1.5 k sale and expecting at least one more before the end of the month as I do have some other ongoing leads.

This is a historical trend, Octomber empty for me in most part but it recovers by the end of the month.
 
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Thank you Twiky. My October has been slow so far but I have opted out of boost and got a 950 sale (.com dropreg) three days later so I'm satisfied :xf.cool:
Good one.

Same thing for me. Opted out, got a sale.
 
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As a side note, some good news, October is performing as expected.

Got a $1.5 k sale and expecting at least one more before the end of the month as I do have some other ongoing leads.

This is a historical trend, Octomber empty for me in most part but it recovers by the end of the month.
yeah October is strange, but fingers crossed that domain Gods have just woken up ...🤞

1729765680904.png


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I wish you guys a strong Q4. 💪
 
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As a side note, some good news, October is performing as expected.

Got a $1.5 k sale and expecting at least one more before the end of the month as I do have some other ongoing leads.

This is a historical trend, Octomber empty for me in most part but it recovers by the end of the month.
Good news. Congrats! I'm trying higher sale prices, 3 to 8K, as I have dropped all my weak names and kept the best ones. With 1% STR, I'm trying a business model that makes more sense. Let's see if it's sustainable.
I have also quit NS3/4, after testing the lead centre. since it started. The brokers contributed very little to my sales. I have only two successful sales where the agents were involved and hundreds stalled leads. I felt that the end users wanted those two names badly and they would buy them anyway. All BIN now, HD style, with LTO available for high priced names only.
 
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Thank you for great sharing.
 
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You guys are opting out of Boost and instantly getting sales haha. Maybe it's just a coincidence? I will be patient till the end of December and stay 'boosted' and possibly sale dry to test it 😂
 
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Yep
You guys are opting out of Boost and instantly getting sales haha. Maybe it's just a coincidence? I will be patient till the end of December and stay 'boosted' and possibly sale dry to test it 😂

Yep, it's just a coincidence that just keeps repeating...
 
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I'm waiting for them to introduce MegaBoost (50% commission). Sales will skyrocket.
 
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Thanks dear for your very informative post. Wishing you bigger and greater sales ahead :)
 
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I just made a study over the sales channels I have.

My own results are (note, someone else's results might differ! ) :

35%: reseller
15%: Afternic lead form
50%: Godaddy Auctions + BIN lander

As a side note, I already know from sales history that my names don't sell that much via lander. Whenever I had landers to a platform like Dan or whatever, I got close to ZERO sales that way.

They do sell however well via GD auctions and reseller mostly, and lander occasionally.

It's a mixed situation, dunno what would be the best choice in my case...
Sorry, maybe I am missing something, how are you selling via GD BIN and Auctions when they killed this option? I used to sell 100% of my domains there (BuyNow) but sold zero domains since they closed that venue. I am 100% sure I was getting these sales cause people were able to search GD domains on Expireddomain.net, now that they are not exposed to the public, noone can find them
 
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Sorry, maybe I am missing something, how are you selling via GD BIN and Auctions when they killed this option? I used to sell 100% of my domains there (BuyNow) but sold zero domains since they closed that venue. I am 100% sure I was getting these sales cause people were able to search GD domains on Expireddomain.net, now that they are not exposed to the public, noone can find them

Domains listed on Afternic appear on the GoDaddy Auctions site section but not as auction, just BIN listing.

Edit: The name GoDaddy Auctions is now misleading... there are no auctions anymore

Edit2: GD Bin means lander-based sales, BIN lander on GoDaddy, however again that is set through Afternic. That's how I get the info from my Afternic rep. And it matches other reports I've seen recently on NP, similar percentages.
 
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Domains listed on Afternic appear on the GoDaddy Auctions site section but not as auction, just BIN listing.

Edit: The name GoDaddy Auctions is now misleading... there are no auctions anymore

Edit2: GD Bin means lander-based sales, BIN lander on GoDaddy, however again that is set through Afternic. That's how I get the info from my Afternic rep. And it matches other reports I've seen recently on NP, similar percentages.
I know they appear on GD, basically same URL as the one at Afternic, but there is no list of all domains anywhere.
 
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What do you mean? On GoDaddy site there is a link to Auctions and there is the list.

https://auctions.godaddy.com/beta
I am talking about Selling my domains. I know Auctions are still there, but you cannot list your domains anymore, just buy. As you cn see in attached image, link to Selling is gone
 

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I am 100% sure I was getting these sales cause people were able to search GD domains on Expireddomain.net, now that they are not exposed to the public, noone can find them

I used to think that was true until I found GTDN.com (a great aftermarket search tool founded by @Josh R)


... but also, wholesale BINs are discoverable for those who use bulk searches at afternic connected registrars such as GoDaddy and sort by cheapest BIN's.
 
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The problem is that everyday domains don't sell well anymore, if at all

This was a great post on current Domaining market for the 99%.

I'm glad you mentioned the mac-economic conditions working against Domainers since 2022. This basic reality is often ignored because MSM has gaslighted the public to death. Credit card delinquencies, car repossessions, and and basic consumer goods are at all-time high prices.

It's not the everyday domainer or startup founder placing a $59 backorder at DC; to only find themselves locked in a losing battle at auctions where no money is to be made further as many such names are sold at higher than retail price value in auction.

This is one of the more honest posts I've viewed in awhile. The flood of gtlds, a.i., ever increasing wholesale acquisition costs, and lower VC investments in startups since 2022 has had a significant impact on demand for domains.

It's surreal the how often expired domain auctions surpassing average retail sales price occurs daily. Every major auction house and registrar has confirmed, the average domain sales for about $2,500 at retail. So, a bubble is building within the wholesale aftermarket and will eventually pop.

My hope is overall demand will pick up after the U.S. elections if the right policies are put in place to spur more business investment and consumption.

Best to stay cash heavy and wallet disciplined over the next 1-2 quarters.
 
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basic consumer goods are at all-time high prices.
They are always at all-time high prices, because of inflation, so that's no argument.
 
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They are always at all-time high prices, because of inflation, so that's no argument.

I wasn't making an argument about the state of prices, only mentioning the overall macro-economic condition is working against the everyday domainer.

My argument is that VCs have pulled back significantly from funding new startups since 2022. This pullback has a trickle down effect on the domain aftermarket, especially if you are focused on dotcom upgrade category.

That's my niche, selling to startups looking to upgrade from dotwhatever to dotcom.
 
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I wasn't making an argument about the state of prices, only mentioning the overall macro-economic condition is working against the everyday domainer.

My argument is that VCs have pulled back significantly from funding new startups since 2022. This pullback has a trickle down effect on the domain aftermarket, especially if you are focused on dotcom upgrade category.

That's my niche, selling to startups looking to upgrade from dotwhatever to dotcom.
Some good comments here, thank you.

The market is indeed very different today from few years ago. Most of the domains I sell are however still for tech startups and stuff. I sell at a bit lower prices though as even the pricing went down.

But there will be another day. When the tech and everything else, once again go up up. Also, tech bubble? It wasn't the first and I reckon it ain't gonna be the last. BTW, the bubble has burst already, we're just earning what we can get at this stage.

The biggest impact however is on SMB's - I used to sell everyday domains, especially non-tech ones in the xxx range like hot cake, well, not anymore. Nobody buys them. Also they are not captured at drop anymore, go figure.

Right now the market is entirely adverse on the SMB segment, they don't afford it or are too scared to invest in a good domain which might seem, probably justified at this point, as a pricey investment while little funds they have should probably go elsewhere first.
 
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Some good comments here, thank you.

The market is indeed very different today from few years ago. Most of the domains I sell are however still for tech startups and stuff. I sell at a bit lower prices though as even the pricing went down.

But there will be another day. When the tech and everything else, once again go up up. Also, tech bubble? It wasn't the first and I reckon it ain't gonna be the last. BTW, the bubble has burst already, we're just earning what we can get at this stage.

The biggest impact however is on SMB's - I used to sell everyday domains, especially non-tech ones in the xxx range like hot cake, well, not anymore. Nobody buys them. Also they are not captured at drop anymore, go figure.

Right now the market is entirely adverse on the SMB segment, they don't afford it or are too scared to invest in a good domain which might seem, probably justified at this point, as a pricey investment while little funds they have should probably go elsewhere first.
Twiki, Judging from the names I see you are liquidating, don't know how representative they are are of your portfolio, you seem to roll mostly on the brandable area. Maybe you would do better on brandable marketplaces.. I think it's hard or impossible for an end user to search for one of those names unless on a brandable marketplace..
 
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The biggest impact however is on SMB's - I used to sell everyday domains, especially non-tech ones in the xxx range like hot cake, well, not anymore. Nobody buys them. Also they are not captured at drop anymore, go figure.

I think a lot of this end of the market has gone to new tlds and ai-generated 3rd/4th tier .com names.
 
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