- Impact
- 32,174
I haven't posted this kind of stuff for a while, so I guess it's time to make a post.
Will try to keep it brief and informative as possible (chances are, still might get long).
Important note, this is my own perception and experience, that's all. I don't know everything and don't pretend to. My view might (read: will) differ from others', including yours perhaps.
Okay. 2024 has been a good year for me in sales, better than 2023. But there's a caveat as well.
Some bio needed right now, I think:
- For those that don't know what I do in domains: I'm a drop domain investor. Most of my domains are sourced at drop (used to also purchase closeouts but didn't have much success with those). Edit: I'm also a discount seller, many of my names are sold at levels below the full retail price.
- Drop names: My names are typically what falls between the thick fingers of DropCatch, Snapnames, NamePal and most recently Gname (sometimes). As surprisingly as it might seem, I don't do automatic catching - although I could.
Most are manually regged at drop after they become available. Long story - but I like to reflect longer and sometimes I do that even while the domain is available if I hadn't have time to do it through the day. I rarely lose a name by waiting too long like that. I generally tend to see the value where others miss it.
- Anyway, you'd be surprised what falls sometimes between those fingers - especially if you started many years ago. Today? Not that much but there is still value.
Currently you need to scour a LOT to get some good names, and the fun fact is, some of the names I am no longer valuing enough are caught by DC and Gname and the others. But that's cool, helps me digest the value areas of my portfolio somewhat. DC is however much more active than it was, say 3 years ago for example.
- I also do a LOT of handregging lately. Surprisingly perhaps (for me it really was
handregs have outpaced drops in my own sales for 2024 so I bank more on handregs than drops. But these are unusual times in domaining.
Anyway what this tells about me is that my names are not the top ones. Drop catching by hand is sort of the bottom of the market that still have value. But it works for me. I do enjoy a stable income for a few years already. I focus on great pricing (my names are typically priced say half their retail value) and making some volume to get the revenue. I do invest time in testing, learning and matching pricing with the market for each domain I have - as possible. I do frequent repricing checks.
Okay. Now that I explained what I do and why, let me tell you what I have noticed in 2024 - until now.
1) I have been successful this year primarily because of a series of .com AI handregs that I made right after OpenAI launched ChatGPT. Fresh handregs now make 60% + of my sales, while drops make the rest.
The problem is, it used to be mostly drops. I did however send a lot of metaverse domains while it lasted, and now AI.com domains. Side note I'm a 99% .COM investor.
So this is the spooky caveat - at least currently, depending on some very wise ai .com handregs (trend handregs) that I made. If I would only have the drops, I might be just breaking even of a bit under, perhaps. Which is totally unlike past years.
2) Why did this decline of drop domain sales happen?
Well if you recall the Covid years, 2020, 2021 etc.
There has been a total flood of sales of everyday domains in 2020 / 2021. Everything I had, including questionable ones, were sold. 1k+, $750, $299, even $75 last choice etc etc. Everything was selling.
I was making more than 100% ROI back then (against yearly investment amount) which was very good business. But then in 2022 it all changed / dropped significantly.
The problem is that everyday domains don't sell well anymore, if at all. That is the main reason impacting most investors here, especially the ones that aren't top. And it is related to macro economy (duh). On the contrary, big ticket items especially .AI names are still selling like hot cake.
Well, reason is simple. People and especially SMB owners had money back then, including govt grants and loans sometimes, and they were locked in-house and thinking they had to do something, to make some money while being at home or launching an alternate business etc. This has helped selling a LOT of names. But since then they ran out of money. Not anymore. Might be other factors as well of course, but you get at least part of the drill here.
3) Which domains are most affected and won't sell well?
Unsurprisingly, everyday domains - especially those for which the "right" price point is $500 or less.
However everything I have under $1.5 K is also NOT selling well (clearances, reduced price to flip before renewal etc). I'm currently running some test but I don't think the clearance quick flips at XXX pricing are working anymore.
4) You might ask yourself, will these domains start selling again in the future?
Absolutely, if you ask me.
When the time comes (boom years; lots of cheap money / credit flooding the market), and it will, the XXX price range domains will also start selling pretty nicely. Also when VC's will start again flooding tech startups with easy cash, sure thing: Tech names under 3k will sell great as well (I mean better than now as these are still flowing somewhat). Currently, VCs are spooked and so even these sales are affected. few thousands are a great cost for the average new founder: "Should I pay for servers or the dang domain name instead...?"
The big question is: Do you have enough money to renew them until then? (When the market flips back to up / growth) . I am taking a balanced approach in this line BTW.
5) What changed in terms of dropcatching platforms:
Snapnames is catching far less than before, while DC is still consistent.
And Gname is a rising star (I don't use them because I don't like their model either; but anyway).
The surprise thing is that Snapnames have lost about 300 registrars while GName has increased by a similar number so now they have a higher amount of connections.
I could see through this - SN has sold a good part of their registrars to GN. Don't have any other news source for it but it's pretty transparent.
As a side note, GN caught domains are much, much weaker than what DC gets. So the user base is likely weaker as well. And those domains don't end up in auction at DC; which means, they are most likely captured by their big "partners" - those that have good value.
It's not the everyday domainer or startup founder placing a $59 backorder at DC; to only find themselves locked in a losing battle at auctions where no money is to be made further as many such names are sold at higher than retail price value in auction. This has always been like that though.
6) Handregging. Works for me. But handregging is both a science and an art. I'd say it is the high risk / high reward portion of it. But it depends A LOT on your experience; and how much effort you put into research first of all. If you're a newbie, I would not recommend it. Easiest way to lose large amounts of money fast, because learning the value of domains is a difficult, multi-year and neverending journey.
7) Pricing. Most of my names are priced $1500-3000 although I do have higher priced ones too of course. $2k is about the average.
What differs from the past: When I drop below $1500 to clear some of the names, it doesn't really do much anymore. Just some rare occasional sales here and there for $500 or whatnot which really don't help the bank account much as they aren't as frequent as they were in the past.
So my advice is: Don't reduce prices much as this won't help you. ( Especially NOT under $1.5k I would say, not in this market). Unless you know exactly why you are doing that and what you're going to get for the reduced price.
8) Strategy. I would put the current situation into one word: Survival (keep your names and make something for yourself as well as possible). But it depends - on the money you have at hand.
If you have plenty of funds, you can still gorge on names nowadays; and wait for the good times. But if you have limited amount instead, your best bet is to focus on your best names and renew those while selling and using the funds to cover those renewals.
My own strategy was to survive AND renew my best names AND drop the questionable ones. Keep the cream, ditch the others, make the portfolio supple and simple. With this move, I'm still afloat and making good ROI, not like in the old times but keeps the bank account filled.
For those with similar under $3K names: If you can take your time to really separate the good from the questionable in your portfolio, that would be a smart move nowadays. It's not a time to be heavily bogged down by hard to sell domains, especially with the .com pricing increase lately.
As a side note I currently fluctuate around 2000 names in stock.
P.S. Domaining is for the patient one.
9) .NGTLDs vs .COM. I am a firm .COM investor and believer. Sure there is a lot of potential in the new TLDs as well though. But you have to be consistent in what you do and know why - which is why I am currently sticking to what I do best.
The NGTLD fast growth has taken a lot from .COM sales in last years. But I suspect this will change soon because of the greed of new registries.
I mean, the heck? You register a name for $50 or whatnot, renew for 2 years, build a product on it, then they make it $5000 annual renewal unilaterally. That is like a knife in the gut for such founders.
The greed is high; but on longer term I suspect it will burn these TLDs down to ashes. We've seen greed burning other TLD's back in the days. So those NGTLD registries who keep reasonable pricing (fewer) will still be around; but anyway I suspect a movement back to .COM will happen in next years.
.COM is still king, if you ask me. Although it ain't bad to invest in other TLDs as well, of course - if you really know what you're doing.
10) 2024 sales. I had good success in the first part of the year, summer has been bad but broke even overall, while September has been booming. Overall I'm in good profit.
I have made no sales so far in the first half of October 2024; but I'm not worried. I've seen a similar period of temporary decline in many of the previous years, right about the same time. So I am betting end of October and especially November and December are going to be pretty good in sales. Perhaps not like 2021... but still enough to make decent money if you put your mind and time at it.
11) Future trends. If you can stay tuned to trends and discover them early, some well placed handregs can bring the cheese home, like they did for me. (It also brought the bacon, hehe.) But -again warning- it is not easy to do and you need not be carried away adn register whole lots of names by hand.
12) Passion. I think domaining is, first of all, for those with passion like me. And for the patient.
Even if I'd just break even I would still continue as I know money are made over many years, you need to keep your best names. It is an investment, not a gamble. But passion is what binds it, what makes you want to continue.
Also continuous learning. I have been learning for so many years and I still have a breakthrough each few months which makes me think, I'm nowhere near half learned by now of what I would need to know, but far far less.
13) Landers. I use afternic BIN and will try the make offer ones custom lander in a bit. I stopped using Dan a while ago as it didn't produce results for me (?). Ny names are better sold at BIN if priced correctly, so that strategy worked best. As a side note if you don't have high value items, I'd use a similar strategy, BIN + an affordable price (not dirt cheap - but balanced).
Notes:
- I will try the custom lander + make offer next as well (at Afternic) and see what's what.
- I am still undecided vs. Afternic boost, will still do some testing and see after that. Will post here some results when I'm certain.
14) Buyer perception. I always ask myself, if I would be that buyer (my domain's target), how much would I be willing to pay for this? Surprisingly perhaps, you're going to see that this simple exercise would show the gap that exists between the seller and the buyer perspective. Edit: There is a significant differrence between the two numbers, usually.
Trades are made when either the buyer or the sellers crosses that gap and turns it into a "hand shake - deal completed".
My insight into pricing helped a lot doing those sales because of the above. But there's a caveat too - price your names too low, and you'll spook the customers as they don't know exactly what the value of the domain is. And as such you're conveying lack of value, hence you're actually making less money overall. But taking off just a small slice over that full retail price might help selling better - test and test though.
If you have questions feel free to ask. Note, I'm posting this as I've seen many domainers here over time, especially freshmen, being inspired by the info I share. ( If it's not for you, I apologize for your time reading this. )
TL; DR; Some personal overview over my sales and market and a few tips aimed at beginner to average domainers (not the big fish.)
Thanks!
Will try to keep it brief and informative as possible (chances are, still might get long).
Important note, this is my own perception and experience, that's all. I don't know everything and don't pretend to. My view might (read: will) differ from others', including yours perhaps.
Okay. 2024 has been a good year for me in sales, better than 2023. But there's a caveat as well.
Some bio needed right now, I think:
- For those that don't know what I do in domains: I'm a drop domain investor. Most of my domains are sourced at drop (used to also purchase closeouts but didn't have much success with those). Edit: I'm also a discount seller, many of my names are sold at levels below the full retail price.
- Drop names: My names are typically what falls between the thick fingers of DropCatch, Snapnames, NamePal and most recently Gname (sometimes). As surprisingly as it might seem, I don't do automatic catching - although I could.
Most are manually regged at drop after they become available. Long story - but I like to reflect longer and sometimes I do that even while the domain is available if I hadn't have time to do it through the day. I rarely lose a name by waiting too long like that. I generally tend to see the value where others miss it.
- Anyway, you'd be surprised what falls sometimes between those fingers - especially if you started many years ago. Today? Not that much but there is still value.
Currently you need to scour a LOT to get some good names, and the fun fact is, some of the names I am no longer valuing enough are caught by DC and Gname and the others. But that's cool, helps me digest the value areas of my portfolio somewhat. DC is however much more active than it was, say 3 years ago for example.
- I also do a LOT of handregging lately. Surprisingly perhaps (for me it really was
handregs have outpaced drops in my own sales for 2024 so I bank more on handregs than drops. But these are unusual times in domaining.Anyway what this tells about me is that my names are not the top ones. Drop catching by hand is sort of the bottom of the market that still have value. But it works for me. I do enjoy a stable income for a few years already. I focus on great pricing (my names are typically priced say half their retail value) and making some volume to get the revenue. I do invest time in testing, learning and matching pricing with the market for each domain I have - as possible. I do frequent repricing checks.
Okay. Now that I explained what I do and why, let me tell you what I have noticed in 2024 - until now.
1) I have been successful this year primarily because of a series of .com AI handregs that I made right after OpenAI launched ChatGPT. Fresh handregs now make 60% + of my sales, while drops make the rest.
The problem is, it used to be mostly drops. I did however send a lot of metaverse domains while it lasted, and now AI.com domains. Side note I'm a 99% .COM investor.
So this is the spooky caveat - at least currently, depending on some very wise ai .com handregs (trend handregs) that I made. If I would only have the drops, I might be just breaking even of a bit under, perhaps. Which is totally unlike past years.
2) Why did this decline of drop domain sales happen?
Well if you recall the Covid years, 2020, 2021 etc.
There has been a total flood of sales of everyday domains in 2020 / 2021. Everything I had, including questionable ones, were sold. 1k+, $750, $299, even $75 last choice etc etc. Everything was selling.
I was making more than 100% ROI back then (against yearly investment amount) which was very good business. But then in 2022 it all changed / dropped significantly.
The problem is that everyday domains don't sell well anymore, if at all. That is the main reason impacting most investors here, especially the ones that aren't top. And it is related to macro economy (duh). On the contrary, big ticket items especially .AI names are still selling like hot cake.
Well, reason is simple. People and especially SMB owners had money back then, including govt grants and loans sometimes, and they were locked in-house and thinking they had to do something, to make some money while being at home or launching an alternate business etc. This has helped selling a LOT of names. But since then they ran out of money. Not anymore. Might be other factors as well of course, but you get at least part of the drill here.
3) Which domains are most affected and won't sell well?
Unsurprisingly, everyday domains - especially those for which the "right" price point is $500 or less.
However everything I have under $1.5 K is also NOT selling well (clearances, reduced price to flip before renewal etc). I'm currently running some test but I don't think the clearance quick flips at XXX pricing are working anymore.
4) You might ask yourself, will these domains start selling again in the future?
Absolutely, if you ask me.
When the time comes (boom years; lots of cheap money / credit flooding the market), and it will, the XXX price range domains will also start selling pretty nicely. Also when VC's will start again flooding tech startups with easy cash, sure thing: Tech names under 3k will sell great as well (I mean better than now as these are still flowing somewhat). Currently, VCs are spooked and so even these sales are affected. few thousands are a great cost for the average new founder: "Should I pay for servers or the dang domain name instead...?"
The big question is: Do you have enough money to renew them until then? (When the market flips back to up / growth) . I am taking a balanced approach in this line BTW.
5) What changed in terms of dropcatching platforms:
Snapnames is catching far less than before, while DC is still consistent.
And Gname is a rising star (I don't use them because I don't like their model either; but anyway).
The surprise thing is that Snapnames have lost about 300 registrars while GName has increased by a similar number so now they have a higher amount of connections.
I could see through this - SN has sold a good part of their registrars to GN. Don't have any other news source for it but it's pretty transparent.
As a side note, GN caught domains are much, much weaker than what DC gets. So the user base is likely weaker as well. And those domains don't end up in auction at DC; which means, they are most likely captured by their big "partners" - those that have good value.
It's not the everyday domainer or startup founder placing a $59 backorder at DC; to only find themselves locked in a losing battle at auctions where no money is to be made further as many such names are sold at higher than retail price value in auction. This has always been like that though.
6) Handregging. Works for me. But handregging is both a science and an art. I'd say it is the high risk / high reward portion of it. But it depends A LOT on your experience; and how much effort you put into research first of all. If you're a newbie, I would not recommend it. Easiest way to lose large amounts of money fast, because learning the value of domains is a difficult, multi-year and neverending journey.
7) Pricing. Most of my names are priced $1500-3000 although I do have higher priced ones too of course. $2k is about the average.
What differs from the past: When I drop below $1500 to clear some of the names, it doesn't really do much anymore. Just some rare occasional sales here and there for $500 or whatnot which really don't help the bank account much as they aren't as frequent as they were in the past.
So my advice is: Don't reduce prices much as this won't help you. ( Especially NOT under $1.5k I would say, not in this market). Unless you know exactly why you are doing that and what you're going to get for the reduced price.
8) Strategy. I would put the current situation into one word: Survival (keep your names and make something for yourself as well as possible). But it depends - on the money you have at hand.
If you have plenty of funds, you can still gorge on names nowadays; and wait for the good times. But if you have limited amount instead, your best bet is to focus on your best names and renew those while selling and using the funds to cover those renewals.
My own strategy was to survive AND renew my best names AND drop the questionable ones. Keep the cream, ditch the others, make the portfolio supple and simple. With this move, I'm still afloat and making good ROI, not like in the old times but keeps the bank account filled.
For those with similar under $3K names: If you can take your time to really separate the good from the questionable in your portfolio, that would be a smart move nowadays. It's not a time to be heavily bogged down by hard to sell domains, especially with the .com pricing increase lately.
As a side note I currently fluctuate around 2000 names in stock.
P.S. Domaining is for the patient one.
9) .NGTLDs vs .COM. I am a firm .COM investor and believer. Sure there is a lot of potential in the new TLDs as well though. But you have to be consistent in what you do and know why - which is why I am currently sticking to what I do best.
The NGTLD fast growth has taken a lot from .COM sales in last years. But I suspect this will change soon because of the greed of new registries.
I mean, the heck? You register a name for $50 or whatnot, renew for 2 years, build a product on it, then they make it $5000 annual renewal unilaterally. That is like a knife in the gut for such founders.
The greed is high; but on longer term I suspect it will burn these TLDs down to ashes. We've seen greed burning other TLD's back in the days. So those NGTLD registries who keep reasonable pricing (fewer) will still be around; but anyway I suspect a movement back to .COM will happen in next years.
.COM is still king, if you ask me. Although it ain't bad to invest in other TLDs as well, of course - if you really know what you're doing.
10) 2024 sales. I had good success in the first part of the year, summer has been bad but broke even overall, while September has been booming. Overall I'm in good profit.
I have made no sales so far in the first half of October 2024; but I'm not worried. I've seen a similar period of temporary decline in many of the previous years, right about the same time. So I am betting end of October and especially November and December are going to be pretty good in sales. Perhaps not like 2021... but still enough to make decent money if you put your mind and time at it.
11) Future trends. If you can stay tuned to trends and discover them early, some well placed handregs can bring the cheese home, like they did for me. (It also brought the bacon, hehe.) But -again warning- it is not easy to do and you need not be carried away adn register whole lots of names by hand.
12) Passion. I think domaining is, first of all, for those with passion like me. And for the patient.
Even if I'd just break even I would still continue as I know money are made over many years, you need to keep your best names. It is an investment, not a gamble. But passion is what binds it, what makes you want to continue.
Also continuous learning. I have been learning for so many years and I still have a breakthrough each few months which makes me think, I'm nowhere near half learned by now of what I would need to know, but far far less.
13) Landers. I use afternic BIN and will try the make offer ones custom lander in a bit. I stopped using Dan a while ago as it didn't produce results for me (?). Ny names are better sold at BIN if priced correctly, so that strategy worked best. As a side note if you don't have high value items, I'd use a similar strategy, BIN + an affordable price (not dirt cheap - but balanced).
Notes:
- I will try the custom lander + make offer next as well (at Afternic) and see what's what.
- I am still undecided vs. Afternic boost, will still do some testing and see after that. Will post here some results when I'm certain.
14) Buyer perception. I always ask myself, if I would be that buyer (my domain's target), how much would I be willing to pay for this? Surprisingly perhaps, you're going to see that this simple exercise would show the gap that exists between the seller and the buyer perspective. Edit: There is a significant differrence between the two numbers, usually.
Trades are made when either the buyer or the sellers crosses that gap and turns it into a "hand shake - deal completed".
My insight into pricing helped a lot doing those sales because of the above. But there's a caveat too - price your names too low, and you'll spook the customers as they don't know exactly what the value of the domain is. And as such you're conveying lack of value, hence you're actually making less money overall. But taking off just a small slice over that full retail price might help selling better - test and test though.
If you have questions feel free to ask. Note, I'm posting this as I've seen many domainers here over time, especially freshmen, being inspired by the info I share. ( If it's not for you, I apologize for your time reading this. )
TL; DR; Some personal overview over my sales and market and a few tips aimed at beginner to average domainers (not the big fish.)
Thanks!
Last edited:
