LLLL.com's plummeting in value?

[labrocca]

Is it just my imagination or are these no longer something to hold. I actually sold most of my quality LLLL.com for $xxx and a few crappers for $60-$80.

I saw just a couple months ago it seemed the minimal was $40-$50 but now it's like $20-$25 if that even.

I believe these "sellouts" aren't going to be earners anymore. CCC.net's have gone nowhere and now LLLL.com's are faultering. Quality is one again winning over quality. Doesn't matter how many LLLL.com's are sold out because fqzx.com is still low quality no matter how you look at it.

Discuss.

 

[Hurley4540]

I've been saying that for two years and they said I was crazy. :p

I've never been a huge believer in LLLL .coms, and the only reason I ever bought any was to sell back to domainers that thought they were the next big thing. Sometimes, for people like me, hype is a good thing.

At the end of the day, the only true valuable domains are the ones that can be sold to end users. "VQBZ.COM" is not something an end user will use. In today's Internet, even though a company might use an acronym as their name (which LLLL .coms are commonly used for -- obscure acronyms) an acronym URL isn't the best way to go. Many times, call-to-action names are the way to go to get people to remember your website. For example, if I own a product called "Steve's Zany Skin 'Juvenator" I'm not going to use the domain szsj.com; instead, I'll use something like "GoodbyeDrySkin.com." :imho:

Very true Steve, very good post!

 

[Shasta]

I've been saying that for two years and they said I was crazy. :p

I've never been a huge believer in LLLL .coms, and the only reason I ever bought any was to sell back to domainers that thought they were the next big thing. Sometimes, for people like me, hype is a good thing.

At the end of the day, the only true valuable domains are the ones that can be sold to end users. "VQBZ.COM" is not something an end user will use. In today's Internet, even though a company might use an acronym as their name (which LLLL .coms are commonly used for -- obscure acronyms) an acronym URL isn't the best way to go. Many times, call-to-action names are the way to go to get people to remember your website. For example, if I own a product called "Steve's Zany Skin 'Juvenator" I'm not going to use the domain szsj.com; instead, I'll use something like "GoodbyeDrySkin.com." :imho:

Hmmmm....it's hard to believe your a moderator in the short domain forum. Instead it sounds like your spamming the forum touting the benefits of long domains. It also seems as if your taking advantage of people when you state things like "hype is a good thing for people like me" and "I said this was crazy". I couldn't imagine selling something that I didn't believe in. I wouldn't be able to sleep good at night. I spend lots of time hand registering only short domains that I would keep, figuring that if I liked them, perhaps someone else might as well.

You may feel that people whom believe in LLLL.coms are crazy, however, there are people paying hundreds of thousands for short domains. You may feel that "goodbyedryskin.com is gold, however, for some of us domainers, we'd have a very hard time selling something like that as the domain is so limiting. GBDS.com has hundreds of potential endusers. Further, the fact that it is a rare LLLL.com also makes it easier to sell. With GBD.com at 12,000 GBDS.com at $200 looks great.

I think that a lot of people are in shock at how well the short domains are doing and still lashing out. Except for a few with unpopular letters that have only doubled in price in a year, many domains that were registered in 2004 are in the hundreds to thousand range already.

Face it LL.coms are $90,000 and up. LLL.coms are $7,000 and up. L-L.coms are $2,000 and up, CCC.coms are $200 and up. Why? Because they are short and rare.

In closing, moderators rediculing people for investing in these in the short domain forum and stating things like "I told you so", make me dislike posting on Namepros. I applied to be a Moderator once, however, I was turned down. Evidently you were chosen because your a fair and impartial person and thus I hope you won't continue blasting these to suit your own agenda. Again, I'm not blasting you for your opinions, I just think that a moderator in any forum, say the web design forum, should not state things like "anyone who does web designing is wasting their time and money."

Edit: I just noticed that your not a moderator, but Namepros staff. Guess I'll probably be banned now.

 

[xman]

I know many of us have been saying for many months now that renewal time would be "interesting".

The low end LLLL.com market is still saturated with flippers who are imho largely to blame for both the rapid rise and rapid decline. Many LLLL.com investors have been saying from the start that the low end market was a long term play.. I really can't see it any other way at present and I doubt things will get better before they get worse.

If I remember correctly you were one of the flippers who dump I believed about 1,000 of them. Maybe I'm mistaken.

The very high end LLLL.com market seems to be doing just fine, with CVCVs leading the way. This would seem to defy any argument which places blame for what's happened largely on the economy.

Oh I see.

Let me guess..these are what you have in portfolio now right?


This is just an observation of course.

 

[-REECE-]

That's correct, I dumped 1800+ pre-buyout LLLL.coms and a few hundred I picked up cheap shortly after buyout between late December 07 and January-March 08. I've said from the start (even at buyout) that I believed lower quality LLLL.coms were a long term play and didn't initially get into the LLLL.com market planning to flip. Quite the contrary, I was at peace on November 2nd 2008 knowing I'd likely be paying steep renewal fees annually to renew my portfolio for years to come.

When people are happily paying you $35-$55 for LLLL.coms you picked up for $7 only a few months earlier, anyone not overshadowed with greed would take the money and run. People pay hedge fund managers 2 and 20 (sometimes more) and most would consider themselves lucky to get an annual return 1/20th of what I got in the LLLL.com market.

I have nothing against people investing in this market, I only advise that caution be exercised, as I've advised for several months now when investing in this market. Purchasing low end LLLL.coms for quick flips (at present) is pretty much like trying to corner the options market by picking your calls at the flip of a coin. "Heads" says the LLLL.com buyout doesn't hold, "Tails" says the LLLL.com buyout does hold but prices at best stagnate and at worst decline further as supply continues to outstrip demand.

Anyone want to flip a coin on that? Those are your options for the next couple months. That's calling it as it is...

Want to level the playing field? Invest in an LLLL.com where some poor sap has already paid next year's renewal for you. At least that way you'll have another whole year to watch what happens next without sinking more money into your investment. That's the only way I'd consider investing in this market... Flippers had their chance (January, February, March) and most seem to have missed the LLLL.com boat. There won't be another one of that magnitude in such a short period of time, that much is certain. The only intelligent move to make in the low end LLLL.com market at present is a long term move.

If I remember correctly you were one of the flippers who dump I believed about 1,000 of them. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Oh I see.

Let me guess..these are what you have in portfolio now right?


This is just an observation of course.

I have very little invested in domain names at present (maybe 20k - maybe not even that). Of this, you can see the large majority of the remaining LLLL.coms I have left (first link in my sig).

As for me having any "high quality LLLL.com bias", I have but 1 CVCV myself, a handful of triple repeats remaining (all listed in sig), a couple AABB and that's it. I also keep approximately 50 low quality LLLL.coms at most times and continue to buy + sell them to test market liquidity and arrive at my own conclusions about where the market is heading.

Many people on this board have echoed the same statements presented in this post for many months now but it sadly appears to always fall on deaf ears.

Closing thoughts:

Whatever happens, happens. It's not so much about "what happens" but rather about what position you're in when "what happens", happens.

 

[Kate]

Face it LL.coms are $90,000 and up. LLL.coms are $7,000 and up. L-L.coms are $2,000 and up, CCC.coms are $200 and up. Why? Because they are short and rare.

I hope you are not comparing LLL.com with 4L.com.
Many people have jumped in on the LLLL bandwagon under the (flawed) assumption that they would obey the same dynamics. It's not just about scarcity.
Truth is, the LLL (and LL) are a different breed of animals. LLL are great for acronyms but the LLLL ?? Tougher game IMHO. A usual the better combos like CVCV continue to do well but most LLLL do not fall in that category.

The bottom line is this: there is little demand if any for crappy short names. Sure, one mediocre domain could sell here and there but the liquidity of that particular market probably isn't too great as a whole.
Besides, transactions between domainers provide no indication as to the health of the (real) end user market.

Dnsaleprice.com data:

1	DKVT.com	60	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
2	IUZO.com	181	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
3	IELW.com	130	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
4	YMix.com	224	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
5	QEKI.com	311	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
6	ZIOE.com	310	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
7	ICCQ.com	1,848	Sep-08	Sedo 
8	CCZM.com	80	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
9	BITY.com	2,702	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
10	EZXB.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
11	YILV.com	981	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
12	PUZR.com	500	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
13	AGGR.com	400	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
14	MZBT.com	110	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
15	QTom.com	210	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
16	Aius.com	1,050	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
17	IIPR.com	1,500	Sep-08	TDNam 
18	Frug.com	1,050	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
19	KQTQ.com	89	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
20	TTUV.com	119	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
21	DGFY.com	80	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
22	MMQV.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
23	HTTH.com	904	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
24	CIDK.com	160	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
25	YHAR.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
26	STWI.com	350	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
27	DUKF.com	104	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
28	DUTM.com	163	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
29	IKDU.com	119	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
30	UHPF.com	60	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
31	UHGP.com	60	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
32	ZOZO.com	8,900	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
33	GRMF.com	229	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
34	MTUF.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
35	EDIB.com	750	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
36	BUTJ.com	80	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
37	Debi.com	5,000	Sep-08	Moniker/Internext
38	CUNI.com	2,951	Sep-08	NameJet
39	PhpS.com	2,301	Sep-08	NameJet
40	Tula.com	6,399	Sep-08	NameJet
41	IKIB.com	341	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
42	ZUWO.com	1,482	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
43	VFMM.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
44	IUUW.com	60	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
45	HZVR.com	165	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
46	MZUS.com	1,500	Sep-08	Sedo 
47	MGZS.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
48	PWIR.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
49	IUIB.com	360	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
50	UIFR.com	160	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
51	TOTC.com	5,216	Sep-08	Sedo 
52	KAGB.com	100	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
53	PEYV.com	60	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
54	SWJE.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
55	QIEB.com	185	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
56	YVHO.com	75	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
57	UFIZ.com	520	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
58	UUUN.com	560	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
59	ONXE.com	326	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
60	WOBU.com	1,854	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
61	UGHB.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
62	UEHP.com	70	Sep-08	Sedo Auction
63	FoxO.com	3,201	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
64	GSTS.com	4,000	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
65	Inny.com	6,000	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
66	IDGO.com	3,800	Aug-08	DotWeekly
67	Craw.com	3,300	Aug-08	NameJet
68	ENew.com	3,552	Aug-08	NameJet
69	Fion.com	8,000	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
70	DFXA.com	85	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
71	MZUC.com	300	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
72	UZFZ.com	90	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
73	XOIW.com	100	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
74	BGAU.com	70	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
75	TTKY.com	70	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
76	ZEZU.com	1,452	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
77	TUJE.com	520	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
78	Slow.com	42,124	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
79	JoJo.com	25,500	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
80	UKQB.com	220	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
81	EMVV.com	70	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
82	GBEK.com	222	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
83	LPZO.com	60	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
84	RRVY.com	70	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
85	HLYE.com	60	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
86	BNBP.com	361	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
87	OGIQ.com	141	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
88	AQOK.com	156	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
89	YUPS.com	2,194	Aug-08	Sedo 
90	BBGN.com	210	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
91	FIKU.com	981	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
92	ZERU.com	830	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
93	ENBD.com	1,500	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
94	TEWU.com	1,630	Aug-08	Sedo Auction
95	Ordo.com	3,500	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
96	Piii.com	2,000	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
97	YOLU.com	3,288	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
98	KUYI.com	2,800	Aug-08	NameJet
99	CAYA.com	4,000	Aug-08	AfternicDLS
100	SHCB.com	2,700	Aug-08	Sedo

 

[Shasta]

I hope you are not comparing LLL.com with 4L.com.
Many people have jumped in on the LLLL bandwagon under the (flawed) assumption that they would obey the same dynamics. It's not just about scarcity.

I'm not sure why your hoping that I'm not comparing 4L.coms to 3L.coms, afterall that is what they are closest to. There are 11,881,376 LLLLL.coms and 456,976 LLLL.coms and 17,576 LLL.coms. Thus, when your comparing random letter domains LLLL.coms are most similar to LLL.coms.

As far as the bandwagon comment, I don't think it's a flaw to assume that LLLL.com domains will follow in the steps of LLL.coms. It's more of a calculated risk like any investment. Back in 2002 very few people could predict that the LLL.coms would be worth thousands in 2009. However, a few investor's took the risk and things turned out okay for them. Same thing for the LL.com, CCC.com, L-L.com. While noone can predict what the value will be for LLLL.coms in 7 years, some people whom are brave enough to dare the stock market, are also brave enough to wait and see without panicking. Those who aren't brave are panic selling right now. Which is fine by me as it gives me more opportunities to buy.

As for the sales data you posted stating that size doesn't matter.... here's another way to look at it which might illustrate that size does matter based on current market values and my own estimates of what other collectors "might" pay. Sorry...I'm too busy to finish the chart as you posted over 100 of these "size doesn't have anything to do with it" type sales.

1 DKVT.com 60 DKV 7,000 DKVTM 0
2 IUZO.com 181 IUZ 7,000 IUZOX 0
3 IELW.com 130 IEL 9,000 IELWM 0
4 YMix.com 224 YMI 8,000 YMIXI 10
5 QEKI.com 311 QEK 6,000 QEKIB 0
6 ZIOE.com 310 ZIO 15,000 ZIOEL 5
7 ICCQ.com 1,848 ICC $18,000 ICCQW 0
8 CCZM.com 80 CCZ $9,000 CCZMH 0
9 BITY.com 2,702 bit $25000 bityl $10
10 EZXB.com 70
11 YILV.com 981
12 PUZR.com 500
13 AGGR.com 400
14 MZBT.com 110
15 QTom.com 210
16 Aius.com 1,050
17 IIPR.com 1,500
18 Frug.com 1,050
19 KQTQ.com 89
20 TTUV.com 119
21 DGFY.com 80
22 MMQV.com 70
23 HTTH.com 904
24 CIDK.com 160
25 YHAR.com 70
26 STWI.com 350
27 DUKF.com 104
28 DUTM.com 163
29 IKDU.com 119
30 UHPF.com 60
31 UHGP.com 60
32 ZOZO.com 8,900
33 GRMF.com 229
34 MTUF.com 70
35 EDIB.com 750
36 BUTJ.com 80
37 Debi.com 5,000
38 CUNI.com 2,951
39 PhpS.com 2,301
40 Tula.com 6,399
41 IKIB.com 341
42 ZUWO.com 1,482

In closing, I've got nothing against keyword domains and own quite a few, however, I see a better opportunity in short domains as they are easier for me to sell. However, I'm not the only person whom feels this way. Lots of small time investors feel the same as well as some of the big guys like Buydomains. Namepros and DNF also think they have value as they've given them their own sections.

"Short" Domain Discussion (34 Viewing)
Generally defined as easily resalable domains of 5 characters or less -- LLL, LLLL, L-L-L, 2c, 3c, acronyms, etc

 

[Kate]

I'm not sure why your hoping that I'm not comparing 4L.coms to 3L.coms, afterall that is what they are closest to. There are 11,881,376 LLLLL.coms and 456,976 LLLL.coms and 17,576 LLL.coms. Thus, when your comparing random letter domains LLLL.coms are most similar to LLL.coms.

This is where I tend to disagree.
Let's consider a LLLL that isn't a dictionary word nor a likely acronym to some company, that isn't somewhat brandable either . It is still a short name but that's it. If it's meaningless why should it be valuable ?

As far as the bandwagon comment, I don't think it's a flaw to assume that LLLL.com domains will follow in the steps of LLL.coms. It's more of a calculated risk like any investment. Back in 2002 very few people could predict that the LLL.coms would be worth thousands in 2009. However, a few investor's took the risk and things turned out okay for them. Same thing for the LL.com, CCC.com, L-L.com. While noone can predict what the value will be for LLLL.coms in 7 years, some people whom are brave enough to dare the stock market, are also brave enough to wait and see without panicking. Those who aren't brave are panic selling right now. Which is fine by me as it gives me more opportunities to buy.

Not all short names are comparable.
For one thing most CCC are meaningless as well...

As for the sales data you posted stating that size doesn't matter....

It's just a sample of recent sales. What I find interesting is the gap in pricing between quality combos (like CVCV) and the meaningless ones.

Now don't get me wrong, I think LLLL.com will continue to appreciate in value, in particular the better combos.
But I don't think scarcity alone or sales between resellers reflect strong market fundamentals. Or you need to look hard for that Chinese end user who is willing to buy that qhxk.com from you :red:

 

[forest]

Well , do you really think that T7Z.com or X3Y.com has more potential to find an enduser ?
No , I dont think so! But still CCC.com worth at least $200 at the moment.

In 2002 , people who collect XJZ.com or ZQY.com were consider as mental but how much those domains worth now ? I dont see any company or people who can use ZQY.com for any reason except for they are short , and still ugly LLL.com worth mid x,xxx .
4LTR is right , we cant predict the future , but at least he dare to take the risk. And big money only for whom who dare to take the risk.

 

[ecalc]

One consideration for any investment decision is cash flow (income minus taxes, fees, maintenance, etc) vs acquisition cost. Would real estate sell if income was zero and annual recurring costs exceeded 50% of fair market value? That's the investment model practiced by low end domain speculators. Hand reg a name or buy for $X in the aftermarket, hold for N years paying $X per year to renew, sell for more than N * $X. This model works best in a rising market when quick profit can be made before renewal. Most domainers have had one or more spectacular sales of reg fee names, even during the current weak market, but few domainers sustain that success across a portfolio for long periods of time. Low price does not equal low risk. End users will always have the option of hand regs, exerting downward price pressure on mediocre aftermarket names.

Try to think of one investment other than low end domains that requires annual appreciation equal to the original purchase price just to break even. Would Google stock be less appealing if each share required a $450 annual registration fee? How about an $870 per year fee to hold an ounce of gold? Would you buy that $8 rare stamp or baseball card if you had to pay an $8 reg fee every year? Good hand regs and $X domain deals exist, but they are few and far between and under constant assault by reg fee termites.