poll Like This Post If You Liked The Old Like System!

[Ategy]

I've noticed a change in how NamePros displays "Likes" at the bottom of each post.

Now instead of showing (the sometimes long list of) each person who liked a post, the list now gets super trimmed to:

Likes: Name A, Name B and # other(s).
(Where # is the total number of likes minus 2)

I kinda liked it the old way. Not only was it helpful in getting (sometimes) quality posts to stand out, but like, it was also just plain fun!

PS .. Like this post is you liked likes the old way
PSS .. Also like this post if you like likes the new way
PSSS .. Thank this post if you're not likely to like it
PSSSS .. VOTE!
PSSSSS .. Like .. Enjoy this ...

@Support Team .. Is this change permanent or just a test?

 

[Peak.Domains]

I like likes,
I like polls,
I like polls about likes,
I like polls about liking likes,
I like liking polls about likes
I like liking polls about liking likes

 

[Ategy]

I like likes, I like polls,
I like polls about likes, I like polls about liking likes, I like liking polls about likes, I like liking polls about liking likes

Like I hope it's not likely that you like licking polls in winter!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Not sure how I feel. By clicking on the plus x more you can see a nice detailed list of who liked it including when they liked it. Sometimes this is helpful to know when new information comes forward.
Bob

 

[briguy]

I like likes,
I like polls,
I like polls about likes,
I like polls about liking likes,
I like liking polls about likes
I like liking polls about liking likes

Do you like "big butts"...sorry couldn't resist.

Back to topic..since I am on FB a lot, the change didn't surprise me.

@Ategy.com wish there was a "totally neutral" option in the poll

 

[Paul]

We're not quite done with the design yet. Maybe. We're not sure. We figured we'd deploy it and get feedback, since we're a little torn about the best way to display the information without either cluttering the bottom of the post even more or having a lot of redundancy.

This is a step toward our goal of providing the necessary tools for self-moderation. (Edit: Apparently I was wrong about this.) Our current moderation system doesn't scale, and we're quickly outgrowing it. We'd like to be able to eventually promote or demote posts based on consensus. Right now, our moderators spend a lot of time handling issues that could easily be sorted out by a consensus-based system, but we really need to reserve their time for handling issues with less obvious solutions.

Of course, we don't want such a system to result in censorship of unpopular opinions or other forms of abuse, which is why we're rolling out the components very slowly and experimenting as we go. It's a delicate matter, and we intend to treat it as such.

There's definitely going to be some change to how we display post reactions going forward, as we want to convey whether there is a consensus on the quality and relevance of a post. If you have suggestions about how we can best do this, please let us know.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for the background an plan information @Paul Buonopane. The more I reflect on it the more I see value in the new way. I think being able to see at a glance the number in each category is useful, and as I commented above, I see huge value that you can click on the link and have the full list displayed along with information on when the like was offered (relevant when new information has come forward) and also get a little snapshot of the people who have liked a topic.

Thanks for the efforts you and others are working hard on to make NamePros even better!

Bob

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Not only was it helpful in getting (sometimes) quality posts to stand out, but like, it was also just plain fun!

Agreed! However, when there are 3 pages full of reactions that you have to scroll through on some posts, it's time to start collapsing.

We're still working on it, but the collapsing is permanent.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Just a thought:

Reactions: Likes (2) | Thanks (5) | Dislikes (1) | All (8)

If no reactions in some categories, it could either show:

Reactions: Likes (3)

Where no other categories are show if there were no reactions in the category and "All" does not show if it's just 1 category.

or

Reactions: Likes (5) | Thanks (1) | Dislikes (0) | All (6)

Where "0" displays on reaction categories with none.

Clicking a category of reactions shows just the ones selected to be shown. That way it's not all under a single "Reaction link" and members can select what they want to see (Specific or all together)?

Personally, I think showing 100 to 500 reaction usernames under every post is a bit excessive and potentially slows page load limes.

 

[DNWon]

Personally, I think showing 100 to 500 reaction usernames under every post is a bit excessive and potentially slows page load limes.

I also think it's going to produce a lot less likes overall. Just a sneaky suspicion I have about the psychology of group think or bandwagon jumping as us old schoolers used to call it!

I myself am guilty many times of reading through a thread response too quickly only to go back and spend more time on a heavily liked post as it usually means there is some quality information included. I don't think many people will use the lower right hand corner "like count" as much to really absorb popular posts! Just my opinion!

 

[HotKey]

The old way is more personal, and stimulating. It feels a bit more community-oriented, seeing all names grouped. It adds a sense of pride, ownership and togetherness.

This new way is more standoff-ish. It looks does not look as appealing, visually, to me. Because there's too many separating factors- you've got the unnecessary words "and" "other" in there, plus numerical characters now too. Looks discombobulated.

I understand the need to create a more efficient system, though. The community is huge. I can get used to the change.

 

[briguy]

Personally, I think showing 100 to 500 reaction usernames under every post is a bit excessive and potentially slows page load limes.

This is a classic example of a thread, with a lot of thanks and likes.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/report-completed-domain-name-sales-here.83628/page-733

Personally, one of my favorites to lurk..

 

[Eric Lyon]

What does everyone think about a color system that will help the most liked posts stand out more (Yellow bar for 11-30 likes, Orange for 31-60 likes, Red for 61+)?

Or other ideas to make posts with a lot of likes more noticeable?

 

[Ategy]

This is a step toward our goal of providing the necessary tools for self-moderation.

Before I start on my usual rambling .. note that I've started a separate thread on the "self-moderation" thing .. because quite frankly .. it's a completely different discussion in of itself .. lol:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/namepros-moderation-and-self-moderation-what-the.1152066/

That being said .. you shouldn't even be considering using likes for any part of moderation simply because of the multitude of reasons and vastly inconsistent reasons likes/thanks/dislikes are given in the first place. Particularly dislikes .. are they given because someone doesn't agree with a post .. or because someone thinks the post in actually inappropriate .. or because someone clicked on it by mistake .. or because someone is holding a grudge against the person and just dislikes for no tangible reason? The fact is that they should be given for the first option .. but it's often the other three .. either way there is no consistency and ZERO reliability in terms of using it for actual moderation.

Look at @Vito's post here ... why did @domainventure not like it? If it's because he didn't like the domains then that's a "disagreement" .. but certainly no grounds for attributing any negative moderation consideration (I'm assuming even he would agree).

Of course you'll say we won't base automated decisions on a single dislike .. but what if 3 other people disliked the post for differing (or the same) reasons .. now all of sudden you've set up a system where @Vito has every right to be upset with @domainventure as being part of the decision .. when in fact @domainventure (likely) had NOTHING against the fact @Vito posted what he did .. simply that he didn't like the names (even if I think there were good .. lol) .. but you get the point .. nothing about the dislike had anything to do with what effectively should be related to moderation.

The irony with using likes for moderation is that you're creating a system from which grudges and clans will develop .. you'll end up with even more misuse of the like system than you have now and in the end the irony will be that you'll be able to rely on it even less for moderation purposes will need to step in to disagreements significantly more than today.

Personally, I think showing 100 to 500 reaction usernames under every post is a bit excessive and potentially slows page load limes.

Come on Eric .. seriously .. what percentage of posts have 100+ reactions? Certainly far less than 1/1000. More importantly .. the majority of posts that do have 100+ are usually (not always) epic posts that likely merit the extra kerfuffle!

I also think it's going to produce a lot less likes overall. Just a sneaky suspicion I have about the psychology of group think or bandwagon jumping as us old schoolers used to call it!

Definitely ... This more than anything else is why I don't think you should change it superficially. You will lose likes .. and in turn .. community stickiness.

I personally want people who I like and thank to be aware that I thanked them .. that's kinda the point. While some might do it at first, I think after a while very few will actually open the "+ # others" link.

This is a step toward our goal of providing the necessary tools for self-moderation. Our current moderation system doesn't scale, and we're quickly outgrowing it.

But how likes are displayed has zero relevance with moderation (in fact, as I've pointed out in the past, likes aren't even used consistently, so even using likes as a basis for moderation is a flawed concept).

Even if you were to use likes as some sort of crazy basis for moderation .. why does the way likes are displayed have to change at all? They don't. Keeping likes displayed as they always have been shouldn't in any way stop you from (in my opinion wrongfully) using them as the basis for moderation.

 

[Ategy]

There's definitely going to be some change to how we display post reactions going forward, as we want to convey whether there is a consensus on the quality and relevance of a post. If you have suggestions about how we can best do this, please let us know.

What does everyone think about a color system that will help the most liked posts stand out more (Yellow bar for 11-30 likes, Orange for 31-60 likes, Red for 61+)? Or other ideas to make posts with a lot of likes more noticeable?

What I'm having a VERY hard time understanding is why would you even want to do that? The whole point of most threads and what you should want to encourage, is that we should want people to read EVERY POST before continuing and participating in the conversation. Think about it .. do you really want to encourage members to only read certain posts in a discussion? There are soooooo many reasons why that is a profoundly bad idea.

There are a handful and VAST minority of threads where something like this could be ok. One of the very exceptional rare threads like my daily lists, or one of the domain acquisition threads with thousands of effectively separate posts .. where SPECIFICALLY the thread is not a continuous discussion. But those represent such a small portion of forum threads that it makes no sense to change everything just for that tiny minority of threads!


Speaking of my daily lists .. I can say with absolute certainty that no posts* have had more time/effort behind them and they are are among the most useful, industry-centric and on-topic posts on NamePros .. yet because of their length, of the 100+ members who view them every day, often none click like or thanks. But then look at the meet and greet section .. there are literally thousands of posts of 1 to three words with 10+ likes ... you're going to feature those over my daily lists? C'Mon .. seriously?
* Now that I think about it .. the possible exception are @jberryhill's EPICLY helpful posts!

And if you don't think like-clans will happen .. I've got news for you .. it already is .. go back into the meet and greet section. When I post there, I almost always make an effort to make a quality welcome, with at least part of my message personal to the new member .. usually at least 3 paragraphs (Welcoming + Personalised + Wishing Luck) .. yet more often than not even 1-3 word copy/paste posts get more likes (even ones posted AFTER mine .. lol) ... and sure enough it really doesn't take very long to notice a pattern of who the click-clan is! Does it really matter? Not now (although it is kinda sad .. lol) .. but if you switch to making likes give actual tangible weight and importance to posts, then it will matter a LOT!

While I've already mentioned you should reform the Likes system (start reading here), if you actually use likes as a basis for post important weight (again a bad idea from the start) then you'll need to change it significantly.

Anyhow .. bla bla bla .. you get my points .. lol

 

[J Sokol]

I personally want people who I like and thank to be aware that I thanked them .. that's kinda the point. While some might do it at first, I think after a while very few will actually open the "+ # others" link.

I agree with Ategy's point here. Also, this seems to give extra weight to longer-term members whose names show up first. Which makes the rest of us feel as if our opinions don't count.
I often forget whether I've 'liked' a post or not, and the new system requires me to click the 'other' link and scroll through the list to find out. That seems time-consuming and clunky.

 

[Vito]

Look at @Vito's post here ... why did @domainventure not like it? If it's because he didn't like the domains then that's a "disagreement" .. but certainly no grounds for attributing any negative moderation consideration (I'm assuming even he would agree).

Of course you'll say we won't base automated decisions on a single dislike .. but what if 3 other people disliked the post for differing (or the same) reasons .. now all of sudden you've set up a system where @Vito has every right to be upset with @domainventure as being part of the decision .. when in fact @domainventure (likely) had NOTHING against the fact @Vito posted what he did .. simply that he didn't like the names (even if I think there were good .. lol) .. but you get the point .. nothing about the dislike had anything to do with what effectively should be related to moderation.

I agree.
Maybe that person just had a bad day, or enjoys trolling...lol

I haven't spent much time reading many posts here lately. Just a quick scan once in a while so to tell you the truth, I didn't even realize there was a new system of likes and dislikes until just now.

I do prefer the old system where you can see each persons name who thanked you or liked your post. Something about that just seems a bit more personal, Community-ish.

I voted for the old system.

 

[wakguano]

I like np

Flat or round, short or tall . I dont care

 

[Mister Funsky]

It is quicker to scan who has liked a post by the old method...the extra step of clicking and then looking is making me not participate as much as normal. The same one or two members will show up (older members) so it almost not worth listing names...just give a count without identifiers. Make an area for like, dislike and how about adding a 'meh' column for those posts that qualify.

 

[wakguano]

Yes. , Likes count only , more button if u wanna check the list

Also YES for 'meh' button

 

[domainventure]

@Ategy.com, I'm not sure why you quoted me on the post, perhaps you intended someone else?

Before I start on my usual rambling .. note that I've started a separate thread on the "self-moderation" thing .. because quite frankly .. it's a completely different discussion in of itself .. lol:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/namepros-moderation-and-self-moderation-what-the.1152066/

That being said .. you shouldn't even be considering using likes for any part of moderation simply because of the multitude of reasons and vastly inconsistent reasons likes/thanks/dislikes are given in the first place. Particularly dislikes .. are they given because someone doesn't agree with a post .. or because someone thinks the post in actually inappropriate .. or because someone clicked on it by mistake .. or because someone is holding a grudge against the person and just dislikes for no tangible reason? The fact is that they should be given for the first option .. but it's often the other three .. either way there is no consistency and ZERO reliability in terms of using it for actual moderation.

Look at @Vito's post here ... why did @domainventure not like it? If it's because he didn't like the domains then that's a "disagreement" .. but certainly no grounds for attributing any negative moderation consideration (I'm assuming even he would agree).

Of course you'll say we won't base automated decisions on a single dislike .. but what if 3 other people disliked the post for differing (or the same) reasons .. now all of sudden you've set up a system where @Vito has every right to be upset with @domainventure as being part of the decision .. when in fact @domainventure (likely) had NOTHING against the fact @Vito posted what he did .. simply that he didn't like the names (even if I think there were good .. lol) .. but you get the point .. nothing about the dislike had anything to do with what effectively should be related to moderation.

The irony with using likes for moderation is that you're creating a system from which grudges and clans will develop .. you'll end up with even more misuse of the like system than you have now and in the end the irony will be that you'll be able to rely on it even less for moderation purposes will need to step in to disagreements significantly more than today.



Come on Eric .. seriously .. what percentage of posts have 100+ reactions? Certainly far less than 1/1000. More importantly .. the majority of posts that do have 100+ are usually (not always) epic posts that likely merit the extra kerfuffle!



Definitely ... This more than anything else is why I don't think you should change it superficially. You will lose likes .. and in turn .. community stickiness.

I personally want people who I like and thank to be aware that I thanked them .. that's kinda the point. While some might do it at first, I think after a while very few will actually open the "+ # others" link.



But how likes are displayed has zero relevance with moderation (in fact, as I've pointed out in the past, likes aren't even used consistently, so even using likes as a basis for moderation is a flawed concept).

Even if you were to use likes as some sort of crazy basis for moderation .. why does the way likes are displayed have to change at all? They don't. Keeping likes displayed as they always have been shouldn't in any way stop you from (in my opinion wrongfully) using them as the basis for moderation.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Come on Eric .. seriously .. what percentage of posts have 100+ reactions? Certainly far less than 1/1000. More importantly .. the majority of posts that do have 100+ are usually (not always) epic posts that likely merit the extra kerfuffle!

Look at the thread briguy linked. A lot more than you may have realized, and it only takes 1 on a page for there to be a problem: readers are there to read the posts, not scroll through 3+ pages of likes (On Mobile is the worst but also too much on a desktop).

Think about it .. do you really want to encourage members to only read certain posts in a discussion? There are soooooo many reasons why that is a profoundly bad idea.

In a thread with thousands of replies, the alternatives for many are they read nothing, skim, or arbitrarily choose posts. A way to draw attention to the posts the community felt were best is a good thing. It’s not meant to be useful in every thread but there are many new threads (And existing threads) that get hundreds or thousands of replies every week. Not everyone has time to read them.

That being said .. you shouldn't even be considering using likes for any part of moderation

Likes are not going to be used for moderation. It was a miscommunication.

Read More: https://www.namepros.com/threads/na...elf-moderation-what-the.1152066/#post-7376811

this seems to give extra weight to longer-term members whose names show up first. Which makes the rest of us feel as if our opinions don't count.

That was a bug and fixed shortly after but it hasn’t been deployed yet. It’ll be fixed in the next update.

I often forget whether I've 'liked' a post or not, and the new system requires me to click the 'other' link and scroll through the list to find out

You will know because the Like option won’t be available to you anymore on that post

 

[Ategy]

Look at the thread briguy linked. A lot more than you may have realized, and it only takes 1 on a page for there to be a problem: readers are there to read the posts, not scroll through 3+ pages of likes (On Mobile is the worst but also too much on a desktop).

Yeah .. I see it and understand what you're saying .. but by over a 5:1 ratio so far, the rest of us simply don't agree it's a problem and prefer it the way it was. Not only that .. but you're also talking about literally a micro fraction of threads .. a super-minority that I just can't understand why you're changing everything because of? .. Particularly if nobody ever brought it up as a problem (that I'm aware of) and most people actually preferred it the way it was.
(If it ain't broke .. don't fix it ...)

As you can see from the poll (16 to 3 at the moment), most of us not only didn't mind it, but actually liked it. Even the ultra minority "ton-o-likes" posts. I'm not saying you're not allowed not to like the old way .. just pointing out that from the response so far .. most of us did!

In a thread with thousands of replies, the alternatives for many are they read nothing, skim, or arbitrarily choose posts. A way to draw attention to the posts the community felt were best is a good thing. It’s not meant to be useful in every thread but there are many new threads (And existing threads) that get hundreds or thousands of replies every week. Not everyone has time to read them.

Sure .. again I completely understand what you're saying ... but I'm saying that skimming and skipping posts is simply not something the admin should be actively encouraging .. even if we all know it's going to happen in certain situations anyways. And again .. minority of threads.

Not only that .. but the old like system did exactly what you're talking about anyways! People who do skim would also tend to look at posts with the most likes.

Likes are not going to be used for moderation. It was a miscommunication.

Pretty big miscommunication .. that was pretty much the biggest reason for this and the other thread! You could have started with that first .. lol .. we could have saved a lot of sore typing fingers!

This is a step toward our goal of providing the necessary tools for self-moderation

@Eric Lyon .. But are you 100% sure? Paul's statement was pretty clear to me. It really doesn't seem like you guys are on the same page ... although since you posted last explaining it, I'll take your word for it .. BUT .. you seriously can't blame me for being concerned as for the many reasons I detailed above and in the other thread, using likes in any way with relation to moderation would be a huge mistake! (had to add that just in case .. lol)

All that said .. then why are you changing the like system? Particularly if people prefer the old way 5:1?

Anyhow .. if you're gung-ho on killing the old like system, then I've got a couple ideas/compromises .. but I'll post them in a fresh post below ...
(btw .. without the hyphen "gungho" auto-corrects to "Bunghole" .. lmao)

@Ategy.com, I'm not sure why you quoted me on the post, perhaps you intended someone else?

@domainventure .. It definitely was you I intended to quote. Nothing personal, it's just that this is a discussion about likes and dislikes and how they might affect the future of moderation here at NamePros. The post I linked to above (and here) was just one at random with a dislike (the dislike you gave on @Vito's post). I was simply saying that you likely disliked his post because you didn't like his domains, and that it didn't necessarily mean you felt his post needed moderation in any way.
(the point is moot now that Eric has clarified that likes/dislikes will in fact not be used for future moderation in any way)

@Ategy.com wish there was a "totally neutral" option in the poll

You don't feel neutral about lollipops?

 

[Ategy]

Constructive suggestions ...

1- Don't change anything since most preferred likes/thanks the way it was .. if not then ...
(gotta try .. lol)

2- Show the names of likers and thankers in inverse chronological order (latest person to thank shows first) .. that way at least we can see the latest people who thanked .. and more importantly on a functional note, people will see their name show up when they click Like (should minimise the negative effect of these changes .. IF indeed they are permanent .. lol).

3- At least show a few more than 2 names ... fill the row at least. Mobile 3 names .. other 7 names.

4- You might save a bit of space by using "+# more" instead of "and # other(s)"

5- For the final spot on the row, if it's "and 1 other", have it post the name .. seems kinda silly to waste space to post "and 1 other" when you could just post that one other's name!

Ok .. that's it ... still my first choice is to revert to the old system ... but if you're going to change .. you have my suggestions!

EDIT / ADDED:
6- Almost forgot ... while you're at it .. fix/reform the real problems with the "Like" system .. as discussed here:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/to...me-to-clean-it-up.1125400/page-3#post-7135744

 

[WatchDogue]

As an avid NamePros reader I've grown to appreciate the full list of names that LIKE and also
THANK a particular post.

Why?

There are perhaps 30 - 40 members whose name giving a LIKE or a THANK for a post virtually assures
I will pay more attention and likely give more credence to the post.

For example, when perusing a long thread should I see that member FILL IN THE BLANK has given a LIKE or a THANK to a post I will read that post with more scrutiny than I might other-wise read a post.

I make up my own mind on posts and issues, however, I appreciate knowing that PERSON X has read a post and thought enough of the post to LIKE or THANK the post.

Also, there is a certain " personality " provided to the Forum and its threads by a list of its member's names rather than a cold number.

Accordingly, I prefer the recently changed list of names for LIKES and THANKS.