NameSilo

Is there a .TV domainer-to-domainer market?

Located in ccTLD Discussion started by GoneWalkabout, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. GoneWalkabout

    GoneWalkabout Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It seems almost all my .tv sales over the past couple of years have been to endusers.

    Has anyone here done any domainer-to-domainer .tv business recently?


    Reason I ask is that I own a country name in .tv and wondered if it was worth my while trying to sell it here.
     
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  2. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Legacy premium pricing ? I hope not. That would be a putoff I think.
    NP used to have a lively .tv section. Not anymore. Also some active members Smash Factory don't seem to be around anymore.
    Maybe Mr Hartnett could be interested ? ;) I remember he held 17K .tv domains at the time. No idea if he's actively buying names today.
     
  3. deez007

    deez007 The More I Learn The Less I "Know" VIP

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    Would def like to find out the same... I have a English city .tv domain that's also the name of a leading premier league football team.
     
  4. GoneWalkabout

    GoneWalkabout Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Wow. Chris Hartnett. There's a name from .tv history, along with SmashFactory, Snoop, James Barclay and a whole lot of others.

    He seriously bought 17,000 .tv names. That is incredible and only something you could do if you were already a tech billionaire (which I believe he was).

    I still have a few hundred .tv names, down from over 2,000 TV related names back in the day. Now concentrated in their quality they are happily taking care of themselves.

    But Christmas is coming and I do like me a TV sale at this time of year. So it would be nice to sell the odd one here and there in an area where we know the market (Like Namepros). Back in 2007 when there was a dedicated .tv forum there was a firm domainer to domainer market. If you wanted to cash-in on a few names it was quite easy to get at least what you paid back, sometimes a little more - but never enduser prices.

    It is this d2d market my question was looking to see if it existed anymore.

    My country name .tv by the way is a modern day 'new premium'. It cost me $4500 to register and is just $26 a year to renew. I think before the changes in 2010 it was like $10k a year. It's also the native name for the country.

    Thanks for the memory of Chris Hartnett. I'd love to know what he's doing now.
     
  5. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    For my experience the D2D .tv market is basically non-existant.
    I made some try in the past but never had too much success. And I've tried with great domains, not with OnlineForexTradingMarketMadness.tv
     
  6. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Exactly and Dr. Hartnett did not participate here, it's been years since I talked to him but I know he regretted a couple offers he turned down, and possibly regretted his whole investment in .tv.

    There has not been a domainer to domainer market for years. I actually didn't make a post this year here because the sub forum doesn't really exist anymore but we had the 13th anniversary a couple of weeks ago.

    But the biggest players who were not smash factory or Dr.Hartnett have mostly left the forum or lurk and some are no longer in domaining. I had a couple interviews that were never published and emailed people I have known for many years and said I would like to publish now, they were like thanks for all you have done for .tv but I don't want to be associated with domaining anymore so I would rather you don't publish.

    I have one former member here who I broker names for and he has sold some names, but when I ask can I publish on my blog and here they have always refused, there are members they dislike who they don't want to know about their sales.

    The community really has become dispersed all over, @Vito and I talk about .tv a lot but guys like Jeff Overman have been quiet, I see likes from @Argos one of the best .tv domainers of all time has not posted in years.

    A few other guys have told me since there is no subforum anymore they do not participate and instead email one another with info but keep it off Namepros.

    Ammar continues to make good sales but interest overall I would say is down, I wrote a couple years ago, .tv and .me seem to be two extensions that have seen a downtick with the new gtld introduction. Not that they are better, I just think so much more choice, I had a guy interested in a .tv who said $5,000 f*ck that! I will go register the .video for $19.99 have a nice day.

    So I would say you are wasting your time here if Ammar or Donnied doesn't want it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM
  7. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    He doesn't post a lot, https://www.instagram.com/chrishartnett108/
     
  8. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I quote what you say @equity78 except for the interest in the extension.
    I still see a high level of interest for premium names from end-users. The fact is that end-users only come when they need the domain, because for them it's not an investment. And this, combined with the non-existent D2D market, makes the extension very illiquid.
    This is a problem because you can't say "Ok, I need some money I'm going to sell some .tv".
    Obviously, this is a problem of domaining, but the gap in .tv seems bigger than with other TLD. I've had negotiations with end-users for XX.XXX for domains that here wouldn't sell for XXX. And this gap is very very big.
    BTW this is still in my opinion the only TLD (with .in) that gives you awesome returns if you are not in a hurry to sell.
     
  9. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Exactly and a vibrant Domainer to Domainer market matters. Back in the day when I started the .tv subforum you could sell names here for $200, $500, $1,000. Now you could not get $100 unless it was way underpriced or highly liquid like a LL.tv. I mean I ran auctions where we were regging names while the auction was running and selling for more than the handreg that was 30 minutes old. Handreg for $10.99 or $14.99 and sell them for $25, there was a time when GEOtv.tv was actually pulling in domainer to domainer dollars.

    I definitely think interest in the extension is down overall, not for a USA.tv but for a name that would sell in 2010 that was nice but not super premium. I mean I was selling names with $500 and $1,000 yearly renewals for 5 figures, now those names without the premium renewal would just sit, there still will be sales absolutely. But years ago we could sell names that were strong keyword even if did not go with .tv like I sold CurrencyTrading.tv for $700 in 2008, MudWrestling.tv for $650 in 2007, to other domainers, now there are so many other extensions that someone might just skip paying that and find a .site or .website, .link, .media, .video, .live, .click, and .io and .ai weren't in the picture back then.

    So it's a lot harder today. And like I said a lot of people from when the sub forum started have left .tv and in a lot of cases domaining overall.
     
  10. ecomslice

    ecomslice Established Member

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    anyone need a favor ? ,,,,, then make me an offer :) lol. Favor(dot)tv
     
  11. Ammudamus

    Ammudamus Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I would actually state the contrary. .TV interest has been on the rise all year and even from 2 years ago. It's just continued to quietly make ROI even when others are too busy trying to make money off the gTLDs. I have been very happy. I appreciate all you have done as well Ray.

    A
     
  12. Ammudamus

    Ammudamus Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I am assuming your name is Deutschland.tv? :)

    A
     
  13. GoneWalkabout

    GoneWalkabout Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Ammudamus - perceptive and smart once again - the Sherlock of .tv

    You are correct with your assumption.

    I no longer live in Germany so the name is probably better suited to others.

    It is little wonder why you have such a great portfolio.



    Equity78. Its nice to see you comment on .tv matters. I only ever came to Namepros because of your .tv sub forum and continue to think of you as .TV's unofficial spokesperson. Your words still carry incredible weight so thank you for your input.

    I would suggest that .tv is doing far better than it was a decade ago but only for the higher quality names. Back in the day we certainly had a great D2D market but we very rarely saw sales of over $5,000. Today, things have flipped the other way. There seems to be no D2D market but to see a sale for $10k plus is not exceptional in any way - indeed $100k plus sales have been seen.

    I just saw that Hauptstadt.tv (it means Capital in German) has been sold at SEDO for $4500 - this would once have had the Namepros forum buzzing with a frenzy of .tv purchases as people tried to jump on the perceived TV Gravy Train'. Today, sales like this hardly get a mention they are so frequent.

    I would never advise getting into .tv unless you have done your homework. There are still one or two old-style (pre 2010) premiums out there that can wreck the market for the rest of us if bought by unwitting buyers. As for the lower end of the market, I would have assumed it is very dead but then I see sales in the last couple of months for names like YZY.tv ($6,200) Athletes.tv ($2,000) Coconut ($2,000) WakeUp.tv ($10,000) Clubs.tv ($6,000) Seal.tv ($2,000) Factory.tv $4,500 More.tv (16,500) Humanity.tv ($10,000) Aruba.tv ($13,000) Ring.tv ($46,000) even Jill.tv ($2,850) - then I'm not too sure.

    I even saw Skip.tv just sold for $2,200 a few weeks ago - this is a name I sold back in the day at NP for $38 - and I thought I'd done well.

    The lack of a D2D market seems bizarre.
     
  14. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    James, I totally agree with you regarding the increasing sales, but there's still a problem of liquidity.
    Because you see WakeUp.tv sell for 10K and then if you put a super-premium .tv here on NP you will hardly reach that amount of money, even for a domain that is 10x better than WakeUp.
     
  15. GoneWalkabout

    GoneWalkabout Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think my idea of a D2D market isn't just about lower end .tv names but goes back to that tradition we had of selling on names that didn't fit into our portfolio's any longer.

    There were many names back in the day that appeared at the same price they were originally bought plus an add-on of around 10 to 20%. The sellers had simply decided the name didn't fit anymore with their plans or that they were no longer going to renew because they had given the name a fixed term to sell to endusers. I remember one member telling me he bought names for one year but if they had not sold within six months he 'cleared them out' at cost price.

    Many people acquired names that were brilliant for little more than if they had registered them themselves.

    I see that same D2D demand exists, otherwise Namejet wouldn't be doing so well picking up drops for people.

    Its just a shame that there is no place to quickly pass names on, or 'clear them out' to get a minimum of the initial return of investment.

    In my case I would be happy to clear one or two higher end names every now and then (like Christmas, summer holidays, birthday, etc) for the price I paid plus a few percent. It also helps when you want to buy another/better big name yourself but need quick access to funds.
     
  16. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, but there's also a perception factor. I go with my memory so I can be wrong on figures, but I've tried to sell Oakland.tv and Minneapolis.tv for low X.XXXK each some months ago and I found no buyers. I'm sure that if 2 Geo like these were on Name.com droplist or Namejet they would have been taken immediately at the same price.
    It's like if psychologically give money to Name is ok while giving money to another domainer is not.
     
  17. Ammudamus

    Ammudamus Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I would also venture to say there is a D2D market, but not on forums. You just need to be more creative. A few things happened:

    1.Premium renewals hurt a lot of investors as they thought they could flip prior to the renewals hitting them.

    2.gTLD dilution hurt the main extensions. I think you are starting to see that clear up a bit based on the inquiries on .TV.

    3.A lot of folks didn't factor in multi year holds for names at the renewal prices in .TV. Their holding costs hurt and they are forced to drop names.

    Start small. Make an ROI. Rinse and repeat slowly. This allows you to keep catching fish even where there are less in the pond. IMHO.

    A
     
  18. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I see Muzu.tv closed at $7,001 on GoDaddy,

    MUZU was an independent online music video site with the largest legal catalogue of music videos available on the web. The video catalogue was licensed by all major record labels Universal Music, Warner Music, Sony Music, independent music labels and niche music content owners. Wikipedia
     
  19. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Well that's very true something I have been writing on for years, from big domainers to small, some fancy giving thousands to GoDaddy or NameJet but would not give a fellow domainer $100. Spot on Donnie.
     

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