Is sending mass emails to potential users considered SPAM?

[RaiderGirl]

I was reading a thread recently from Adam Dicker titled :

"Sell your names the way a professional broker does!"

Where he instructs domainers to use "Atomic Whois Explorer" to extract admin emails from domain names.

And where he then instructs them to use Atomic Email Studio to start a mass mailing from the list the user extracted.

Then providing an example of the email, a sales pitch offering the domain name.

My question is, How is this any different from the SPAM emails we receive every friggin day from domainers offering variations of our domain names?

If it's considered SPAM for Domainers, isn't it also considered SPAM to end users?


Your thoughts

 

[Kate]

It's difficult for mass email NOT to be spam, unless it's to your own subscriber base (opt-in list).

Sending indiscriminately to thousands of recipients would qualify as spam.
If you really need to send unsolicited mail it should be carefully targeted and personalized.
So you might be able to find 1000 possible leads, but only ten are worthy targets really. Spammers may score a sale here and there but they alienate countless people in the process. That makes life more difficult for you... for me... for the ethical domainers as a whole. The spammers are ruining everything. They shit where they sleep

Sometimes there is a fine line between marketing and spamming but it's clear that some domainers are brainless morons spamming like bots.

Now, we have been spammed by quite a few domainers, some of whom are well-known. But never by AD & DCG.

 

[RaiderGirl]

If you really need to send unsolicited mail it should be carefully targeted and personalized.

What if it's mass targeted but not personalized?

I'm in no way referring to Dicker as a spammer, but the instructions he's giving is IMO giving birth to more spammers... It reads like a "How to guide" on Spamming.

And the end result is really no different than the SPAM you and I receive everyday.... Targeted and Not personalized like this one;


Hello,

Since you are the owner of sc*****s.com I believe you would be interested to know that sc*****s.info is for sale.

If you would like to secure the domain please reply with your offer.

Regards,

Dan,
Domain Broker


For this domain, the spammer extracted my privacy address from whois, most likely using the software described.

 

[SearchEngineZ]

I agree with sdsinc - send a few dozen by hand and personalize them. Not only will that lessen the odds of being spam but the people receiving them will be more likely to read on if you address them personally.

It's also better for karma.

 

[snowbird]

What if it's mass targeted but not personalized?

I'm in no way referring to Dicker as a spammer, but the instructions he's giving is IMO giving birth to more spammers... It reads like a "How to guide" on Spamming.

And the end result is really no different than the SPAM you and I receive everyday.... Targeted and Not personalized like this one;


Hello,

Since you are the owner of sc*****s.com I believe you would be interested to know that sc*****s.info is for sale.

If you would like to secure the domain please reply with your offer.

Regards,

Dan,
Domain Broker


For this domain, the spammer extracted my privacy address from whois, most likely using the software described.

It basically comes back to this. Just because one person does or says to do something, it doesn't mean it's right or that you should do it. Believe it or not, just about every registrar I know of has a disclaimer when accessing their whois server. For example every time you pull a whois record on a domain, you usually get included with the whois results a message that says something similar to the following:

"By submitting a WHOIS query, you
agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that,
under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1) allow, enable,
or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial
advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by
telephone; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes"

That right there tells you that whois information is exactly that. For informational purposes only and not for bulk mailing of any kind. But do people still do it? Of course. But if you get caught abusing a whois database server your IP could be banned from running future searches, or you could face more severe consequences from domain owners if you spam someone who is educated of the purpose of whois records. I received a phone call once from a marketing company who got my personal email address and phone number from a whois record. When I asked on the phone how they got my number, they clearly said it was from a whois lookup. I informed them that what they were doing was not permitted and that if they called me again, they would be facing some sort of consequence.

Also remember, if you do decide to do bulk emailing, you probably wont be very successful unless your using a permission based method as already mentioned like AWeber or Constant Contact. Those email distributors have agreements setup with many ISPs and email providers so that they stay on their whitelist by providing permission based mailing lists. Sending bulk mail on your own could result your bulk mailings being reported to some of the well known blacklists such as Spamhaus. Once your IP is on a blacklist, your emails will start being blocked or sent to spam folders on many email services.

You would be much better off collecting or pooling information of potential end users and then selecting carefully which ones you think might be your best people to contact. And then create a personalized professional email rather than a template type email.

 

[tradingdavid]

Look up CANSPAM law and make sure your are compliant. That includes contact information and a working optout procedure. I believe but could be wrong that harvesting is not allowed. However, there may be a number of sending out that falls below the law.

Also, even personalized emails need to comply with canspam.

 

[Name Trader]

If it's a bulk email not from an opt-in list. It's spam. Plain and simple.

The only way around that is to send your emails one by one. But even then, if somebody wrongfully reports you as spam, you can still end-up having your email address put on a block list (rightfully or wrongly).

 

[RaiderGirl]

I agree with sdsinc - send a few dozen by hand and personalize them. Not only will that lessen the odds of being spam but the people receiving them will be more likely to read on if you address them personally.

you would be much better off collecting or pooling information of potential end users and then selecting carefully which ones you think might be your best people to contact. And then create a personalized professional email rather than a template type email.

Thank you for your input, I completely agree with both of you on these points, I was actually doing this for some time and lost interest because it's a lot of work generating personal emails, and the response I received overall I felt wasn't worth it.. Your in a much better bargaining position if the end user contacts you, may take a lot longer but the benefit can be great.

But this is beside my original point, I'd like to know why its considered SPAMMING when domainers send out mass emails to other domainers, but it's not SPAMMING when domainers send it to end users?

Both are using the same methods and perhaps the same software... Perhaps if I paste the article someone can make the distinction, Thank you.

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Sell your names the way a professional broker does!

Ok so you want to sell your names the way a broker does… This is one way that does work.

Please note, I have used affiliate links in the two products reccommended below and I personally bought them both to help sell domain names.
Of course you can do this all manually without buying the software but it could take weeks.

At the very least you will need the whois explorer, it will save you days and it's only $49.95.

First I’ll give you the easy way which is why they mostly sell generics.

Let’s take the example witchcraft.com which I happen to own, but don’t worry I don’t believe in it.

If you have access to zone files, that would make this easier.

So for now let’s go to zfbot.com and see how many domains are registered with the word witchcraft and spells.

Witchcraft has:

342 that start with witchcraft and 341 that end in witchcraft.

Spells has:

486 that start with spells and 1,497 that end in spells.

Witch has:

3479 that start with witch and 10,000 + that end in witch.

Now they export those domains and you have 16,145 domains that relate to the premium you want to sell.

They then get a program like Atomic Whois Explorer and extract the admin emails from the 16,145 domain names. This costs $49.85.

Atomic Whois Explorer is designed to search through global WHOIS database to automate the process of extracting contact information of domain name administrators or website owners.

Current version of the program is capable of retrieving email addresses of domain name administrators or owners and websites expiration dates.

To use Atomic Whois Explorer simply proceed to inputting web sites or domain names you collected above and click Start. Export these results and import them into The mailer listed below or any bulk email program.

Then they get a mailer like Atomic Email Studio and start mass mailing out to the list you just extracted. This costs $299 and also allows you to extract more emails from search engines using the keyword witchcraft.

Atomic Email Studio is an all-in-one application for sending mass email to your customers and subscribers. The outstanding thing about it that you can not only import contacts from a file or database but also extract addresses from websites in your niche and send them invitations to join your list. If done right this is a great way to increase your customer base. You can track who opens your messages and which links they click. All unsubscribe requests are processed automatically so you can focus on the creative side of email marketing. You can increase your ROI by another 15-25% with the built-in list manager that helps you to merge, split and personalize your email lists. Atomic Email Studio is probably the most comprehensive application on the market right now.

With Atomic Email Studio You Can:

• Import contacts from a file, database or Outlook
• Extract email addresses from files on your computer hard drive
• Find prospects on the web
• Verify email addresses
• Create text or HTML messages (editable templates included)
• Send mass email through multiple SMTP servers
• Schedule your mailings
• Track and compare your campaigns
• Easily unsubscribe contacts
• Manage your mailing list


Below is an example email they could send, you can change the wording as you see fit.

================================================== ==================================

Good afternoon,

My name is Adam Dicker, I am a Senior brokerage Consultant with Domain Consulting Group Ltd.

I am contacting you regarding witchcraft.com as I have been commissioned to sell this premium asset and felt it could be an excellent addition to the online properties already held by your company.

The seller is motivated to sell and I am happy to present all and any reasonable offers for consideration.

Thank you sincerely for your time and I look forward to your feedback.

Regards,

Adam Dicker
(contact info removed)

Congratulations you are now a premium domain broker!

Next I will posts how to sell local domains and this is much more difficult and requires much more research to be done successfully. The technique is similar to the above so you can experiment. Both of the above tools will be good for selling local domains as well.

 

[snowbird]

But this is beside my original point, I'd like to know why its considered SPAMMING when domainers send out mass emails to other domainers, but it's not SPAMMING when domainers send it to end users?

It's considered spamming in both of those ways. Just because the poster of that thread says he does it that way, it does not mean he isn't spamming. He clearly IS sending out bulk unsolicited email and his method of extracting his contacts for the purpose of bulk mailing is also frowned upon. Furthermore, I probably wouldn't be surprised if he is an affiliate of AtomPark software and is getting kickback for promoting those products. Sounds kind of like a sales pitch for mailing software if you ask me. Why else would you mention in your post for just X amount, you can get this. For just X amount you can get that. There is no need to mention pricing unless he is trying to sell it. Right? Otherwise you would just say that is what he uses but you can feel free to use that or any other product that does the same without mentioning any pricing. He is telling you how to use the software, how much it costs, and then in the end he summarizes and highlights the features of the product. Sure sounds like a paid advertisement to me.

 

[verbster]

Turn it around to the unsolicited e-mail you receive wanting you to buy domains. Do you consider that spam? How many does it take? 2, 4, 8, 12?

I consider it spam. If you don't, send away, but if they don't answer your first, and you send another, how can that not be spam?

 

[Kate]

I also think the blog post is promotional. It is more about the software than about brokering really.

 

[RaiderGirl]

I also think the blog post is promotional. It is more about the software than about brokering really.

I would agree with you and Verbster, accept it was posted in the "DNFCollege Semester 1/Sales Tips and Sales Letters" forum.

 

[srisri24]

Most probably i would consider it a spam, if i receive one. I used to receive many .cn offers for my .com domains. I promptly marked them spam.

 

[Adam Dicker]

RaiderGirl,

I am glad you found another topic so you cold continue to talk about me.

Enjoy!

Adam

 

[freedom30]

RaiderGirl,

I am glad you found another topic so you cold continue to talk about me.

Enjoy!

Adam

..."even negative publicity is publicity" and gets the person subjected to it more visible. It's all in one's perception and I see that you understand that concept , handled correctly it can actually lean in the target's favor.

Ain't marketing wunnerful?...

 

[RaiderGirl]

RaiderGirl,

I am glad you found another topic so you cold continue to talk about me.

Enjoy!

Adam

What was the first topic?.. You can do better than blaming the messenger cant you?

I honestly have no ulterior motive here, It's no secret that I don't like you or your moderators due to the mistreatment on your Forum, but I'm passed that, I moved on and I don't hold grudges..Nuff said.

I actually found your post through Dan Brown believe it or not, since Dan's unfortunate passing I've done a lot of post searching, Dan was a good friend and the one person in this entire industry I had the deepest respect for, I found that he posted on a blog about how he benefited financially from the information on DNCollege, which IMO is a compilation of what members have posted on your forum, nothing new or original really.. At any rate, I thought I'd read more and maybe find something I missed, this is how I came across the broker thread you posted, I thought it would prove beneficial in contacting end users, sadly I was disappointed and couldn't believe what I was reading, Had to read it twice to make sure.

Like I said before, your instructional post reads like a "How to guide" on SPAMMING

If I'm wrong for thinking that, then PLEASE make the distinction between what your teaching readers and what SPAMMERS do. The methods and end result are almost identical, both extract Whois information and both send out mass mailings, all targeted.

Even if you were pushing software as others suggested, which I don't think you were because it would have been listed in the DNFCollege/Tools & Books forum, your still instructing readers on how to SPAM... Clearly the consensus here agrees it's SPAM either way, so again, please explain the difference, IF there is a difference..

When high rolling domainers do something like this, or someone like M.Mann registers obvious TM's offering them for sale, and somebody like me exposes it for what it is, the brown nosers come out of the woodwork to find some sort of justificationt, or they make excuses for it, but when it's a unknown domainer who does it, they get trashed by all sides... Why is that?.

Why are they not entitled to living under the same cloud of immunity as you guys are?

 

[MarbleHost.com]

Well, everybody may have different opinion what is spam and what does not.

From my own experience, I remember I have got a few domain name offers in past and I have always deleted these messages as a spam.