question Is "Save the Earth" a lie?

[WhoaDomain.com]

So I watched this movie by Michael Moore. Did not know this came out last year in May 2020.

We've all seen the "save the Earth" propaganda.

With keywords like below.

Sustainable/sustainability
Green
Eco
Carbon emissions
Carbon Neutral
green house gases
Global Warming
Pollution


The solutions to "save the Earth" were in a "green" way

Solar Power
Wind Power


with the ultimate goal to eliminate coal use and reduce green house gases.

The Truth? on Cloudy or rainy days. Solar is not 100% efficient and at night? the efficiency is obviously ZERO.

On non-windy days wind power efficient is less to zero.

during down times both methods secretly will always have a connection to coal powered energy production.

or even LPG.

and then there is power generated from burning BIOMASS.

Biomass sounds pretty cool. And you tell someone "Biomass" most would never know it is the cutting down of forests to burn trees to produce power.

lol

So to prevent global warming? The solution is to cut down the forest and all the trees? and keep coal and LPG as a back up power source?
lol

 

[CraigD]

 

[Reddstagg]

I agree.

Half the problem today is that we live in a disposable society. People buy cheap rubbish and have to keep replacing it every few years. It ends up as landfill.

IKEA is a major problem, as is the apparel and textile industry.

I've always kept old hardware, tools, furniture etc. When it does breakdown, I spend a bit of time and/or money on repairs.

I buy clothes from op-shops when I can. Jeans, coats, shirts etc.

I've never owned a car. I catch public transport.

I have been living this way for over 30-years. I make very little difference, but I feel better about my 'footprint'.

Good afternoon.

I love the principles by which you live your life. Every difference is at least a difference.

Even in the middle of a global damn panic humans may begin to realize that everything costs money and they may figure out that they'd like to keep more of it for nice things and therefore, they are more likely to cut back on stuff they don't really want or need. I don't see the point of rushing up the high street trying to enjoy a cup of tea or coffee. Why not just get up 5 minutes earlier and at least take the time to enjoy it properly and as you do so you can plan stuff. It's an old fashioned concept but it might just catch on....AGAIN lol!!!

 

[Cannuck]

I'm not sure that anything of this importance can be supressed. Perhaps shelved for the time being, or stopped because it was a dead-end.

Can you give any examples?

Utility companies say profits diminish, so they increase customer surcharges:

How Utilities Are Fighting Back on Solar Power

https://www.consumerreports.org/energy-saving/how-utilities-are-fighting-back-on-solar-power/

However, it's not all bleak on the horizon:

Big Oil Is Investing Billions in Renewable Energy

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/06/04/big-oil-is-investing-billions-in-renewable-energy.aspx

 

[Mike Goodman]

Saving the earth is growing so much as an industry that once parts of the the Amazon jungle now cater for soy plants to feed those green minded people.

Did you know that the vegan movement today is encouraging more, not less, ecological destruction? Growing soy and grains is done to feed to animals whilst keeping them in huge sheds. Utter climatic vandalism.

Vegans only take a minuscule proportion of the produce which they think is all for them and claim it is better to grow plants for food. According to their narrative, eating meat is cruel and climate damaging because of methane. Livestock farts enough to damage the atmosphere? Only mineral extraction, oil spillage (not burning) and bare earth farming can produce methane on that scale.

They are being totally misguided and I have to suspect funding for this massive propaganda effort to come from agrichem. They are the only ones who could possibly gain from it.

 

[oldtimer]

Yes,
I think it will take altruistic philanthropists like Gates, Buffett, Bloomberg (perhaps even Musk and Bezos in the future) to actually put up the money, their time and effort and get everyone on board to do something.

Money by itself is not enough, you also need the right kind of mindset,

As the matter of fact perhaps that's exactly what is wrong with the way that the world is right now,

Why should money be an obstacle in the way of being able to do the right thing.

Some things are too important to be left under the control of money, such as the future of Humanity and our Home Planet.

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

Fusion power = carbon neutral

Eventually we will harvest energy from the stars.......https://phys.org/news/2014-02-harvest-energy-star.html

Have a read up on the Kardashev scale to see how long it might take though......

https://futurism.com/the-kardashev-scale-type-i-ii-iii-iv-v-civilization

That's a bit of a stretch, but we have always harvested energy from stars - our nearest star - the Sun. The limiting factor to date has been storage (carbon is simply stored energy), but that will likely change in the not-too-distant future.

 

[oldtimer]

So I watched this movie by Michael Moore. Did not know this came out last year in May 2020.

We've all seen the "save the Earth" propaganda.

With keywords like below.

Sustainable/sustainability
Green
Eco
Carbon emissions
Carbon Neutral
green house gases
Global Warming
Pollution


The solutions to "save the Earth" were in a "green" way

Solar Power
Wind Power


with the ultimate goal to eliminate coal use and reduce green house gases.

The Truth? on Cloudy or rainy days. Solar is not 100% efficient and at night? the efficiency is obviously ZERO.

On non-windy days wind power efficient is less to zero.

during down times both methods secretly will always have a connection to coal powered energy production.

or even LPG.

and then there is power generated from burning BIOMASS.

Biomass sounds pretty cool. And you tell someone "Biomass" most would never know it is the cutting down of forests to burn trees to produce power.

lol

So to prevent global warming? The solution is to cut down the forest and all the trees? and keep coal and LPG as a back up power source?
lol

The fact that you are talking about this is a good sign that shows that you have crossed over to the humanitarian and environmental way of looking at the World (if you weren't already).

Unfortunately with the Pandemic the Environmental issues have kind of been pushed to the back burner, but the good news is that because many people are staying home and traveling less there is now a lot less smog in the air.

As to the practicality of solar and wind energy I believe the answer is in having more efficient batteries that can store the energy that is produced by these sources.

IMO

 

[NickB]

That's a bit of a stretch, but we have always harvested energy from stars - our nearest star - the Sun. The limiting factor to date has been storage (carbon is simply stored energy), but that will likely change in the not-too-distant future.

Not a stretch, will just take time.....something we don't really have

Now Fusion Power is a lot more attainable and is being researched and funded in a big way, so in the shortish term it might be the best bet......

 

[oldtimer]

Not a stretch, will just take time.....something we don't really have

Now Fusion Power is a lot more attainable and is being researched and funded in a big way, so in the shortish term it might be the best bet......

Cold Fusion has some advantages over other energy sources if it can be made to be safe, but going with natural renewable choices such as solar and wind are probably going to become a more popular option in the immediate future specially when the new generation of more efficient batteries come to market soon that can make things run without any interruptions.

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

Not a stretch, will just take time.....something we don't really have

Now Fusion Power is a lot more attainable and is being researched and funded in a big way, so in the shortish term it might be the best bet......

Agreed, fusion would provide abundant energy, considerably more than fission (and without the by-product of nuclear waste material). Also, our time on this planet is finite, and the earth's resources are not unlimited.

 

[pb]

Of course the "Save the Earth" idea is used for their own purposes by many bad actors, but we should not use that as an excuse to *not* try and do things that lie within our power. Sorting trash is useless if it is then all carried to the same dump, but let's do it anyway (because eventually they may actually recycle it). Putting solar panels on the roof is expensive and the ROI is 7+ years but let's do it anyway (because in the long run it's beneficial to everyone). Cutting down on meat is hard but let's do it anyway (because that industry has a major negative impact on the planet). Taking a train instead of plane or car is less comfortable but let's do it anyway (because it's mass transit and significantly less pollutant than planes) Etc etc.

Huge companies are killing the planet for profits but they won't change anything as long as the money flows, the change must begin with us. Or rather, *me*. Because "us" dissolves the responsibility - "my wife doesn't drive a car, so *we* use half as much fuel as we would have". Well ok, so my wife has a pretty good carbon footprint, but what about *me*? It is understandable that many societies cannot afford these changes but let's not treat that as an excuse to do what *can* be done, by whom it *can* be done.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

The fact that you are talking about this is a good sign that shows that you have crossed over to the humanitarian and environmental way of looking at the World (if you weren't already).

Unfortunately with the Pandemic the Environmental issues have kind of been pushed to the back burner, but the good news is that because many people are staying home and traveling less there is now a lot less smog in the air.

As to the practicality of solar and wind energy I believe the answer is in having more efficient batteries that can store the energy that is produced by these sources.

IMO

Thanks. My reply to "efficient batteries that can store energy" faster and longer is simple.

Google "forever battery" and "vanadium battery"

Batteries using vanadium instead of sodium as the active ingredient in lithium batteries will mean faster charging without overheating of the battery.

Plus batteries that can retain a charge more efficiently and last longer.

With that said I suggest everyone to forget investing in lithium but instead in vanadium.

 

[oldtimer]

And while I really like your post, "ALL energy on the Earth" does NOT come from the sun;

- Tidal energy comes from the moon
- Energy from batteries comes from the chemical decay of materials
- Nuclear (energy) isotopes in earth's mantle are older than the sun
- Deep-sea volcanic (geothermal) vents power ecosystems independent of the sun
...

Ultimately the best source of power will be if we can tap directly into the gravitational and electromagnetic forces of Earth (or any other planet that we might be on in the future).

IMO

 

[CraigD]

Stars is not just what I had in mind...I just know last person that worked on a pyramid was NIKOLA TESLA

Somehow I just knew that you were going to bring Nicola Tesla into this LOL

 

[Mike Goodman]

Wow! This thread shows how far behind science our "news" media have trailed the relatively recent known, scientifically proven, facts.

during down times both methods secretly will always have a connection to coal powered energy production

is one hell of a case in point. No there is absolutely no need to go back to burning coal.

Firstly the carbon problem and where to put it. Here I loosely cite Walter Jehne, the greatest authority I know on the topic. The greatest carbon sink we have is soil. By getting carbon back into what is now desert, which we have created over millennia, or in the North American case what we have turned the great plains into in a few short years, we recreate soil and reconstruct productive land.

Here's a good simple 20 minute TED talk by way of intro, if this system allows me to add a non-domaining link: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change - the talk is done by Allan Savory but the proof that the carbon cycle is actually a function of the earth's hydrological cycle is Jehne's. His lectures and papers are much longer and more complex.

Secondly, if Covid has done nothing else positive it has shown dramatically in a breathtakingly short time that if we reduce fossil fuel use the environment is largely capable of cleaning itself up. Which is the second element of rebalancing the environment via the atmosphere.

Wood is mostly carbon. Burning it sends carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Arguments of taking it back out later are puerile. The problems are created by extraction of and burning of fossil fuels, especially spills and waste but any burning adds to the problems; and bare earth farming. Each time earth is tilled it allows masses of water vapour, carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. It also destroys masses of microorganisms essential for plant growth and which also form the lowest element of the food chain for all life on earth.

There are no technological solutions. Every such idea I have heard mooted is pie in the sky. Watch that short, 20 minutes or so, TED talk and get a fuller grasp of what it is all about.

 

[Reddstagg]

@Reddstagg Yes, I've been reading about it. We're doing bits and pieces in England to restore wetlands, too, but on its own it's nowhere near enough. But there are moves on both sides of the Irish sea to improve agricultural practices, no soil disturbance to retain water and carbon in the soil, keeping the soil fertile and productive. I'm also cheered by the amount of effort going into restoring the Great Plains of the USA, desertified since WWII. Again, though, not enough momentum yet in any of those initiatives.

Where the greatest amount of effort is required is the almost incomprehensibly huge stretch of desert from the western tip of Africa, all the way through the Middle East to the Eastern tip of Asia, i.e. China. Warring factions, corrupt politics, idiotic jealousies (in modern terms) and vested interests are conspiring together to prevent genuine advances being made. And, incredibly, most of the disputes are over land.

That huge amount of desert could easily provide food for the world's population, locally to where it is most needed, as well as altering the climate back to more temperate and predictable levels. Curing the problem in North and Central Africa alone would stem the annual calamities of hurricanes across the Carribean seas and the USA.

Good evening Mike,

I think it takes people of a certain age...cough...cough I'm 54 to have lived through many of the things that we have lived through and then when we get a little older and a little wiser we start to question ourselves and the world that we live in. I only bought one new piece of clothing in 2020 and I'm planning to go through the whole of 2021 without buying one single new piece of clothing or indeed shoes etc. I think I have enough already and I will just have to make do and mend.

We have achieved much already but there is still more to do. We have to just keep doing what we are doing and hope that it starts to rub off on those around us and eventually everyone will be doing their bit. Plastic food wrapping is my bug bear at the moment and I'm trying not to bring any into the house but during a pandemic with total lockdown it makes it harder than normal.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Cannuck]

I agree.

Half the problem today is that we live in a disposable society. People buy cheap rubbish and have to keep replacing it every few years. It ends up as landfill.

IKEA is a major problem, as is the apparel and textile industry.

I've always kept old hardware, tools, furniture etc. When it does breakdown, I spend a bit of time and/or money on repairs.

I buy clothes from op-shops when I can. Jeans, coats, shirts etc.

I've never owned a car. I catch public transport.

I have been living this way for over 30-years. I make very little difference, but I feel better about my 'footprint'.

It's reassuring to witness many here who 'walk the talk'. Our consumer-based society has led the planet down a one-way street IMO. We've been conditioned that way. What if we actually gave back to the earth? What mind-reset would be required, and is it practical in a capitalist society, or even probable? Likely not, especially when the West demonstrates overt consumerism and encourages conspicuous consumption that developing countries will only emulate. With increasing population, higher living standards and lifestyles to match, are we merely prolonging the inevitable? At least in Canada there is a growing conscience, ie. banning single-use plastics, recycling etc., but still I find an absence of sincere dedication. So to answer the question, "is it a lie?" My reponse would be, "to thine own self be true".

 

[oldtimer]

As much as we all want to care about the Environment, but in all honesty Humanity and the World would still be in peril even if the Environment was in perfect shape.

If we really want to save the World we need to address everything that is wrong with it at the same time and with the same intensity, because in addition to the problems that we are facing with the Environment there is also the risk of having a nuclear Armageddon and even if we manage to live in peace there is still the chance of having more devastating Pandemics in the future. And lets not forget about technologies such as AI and automation and nano, genetic, and quantum engineering which if not managed correctly each has the potential to change our lives for the worse. Even if we get all these things under control there are still the political, religious, and racial animosities that can derail our future, and when you add to that our endless love for money and power and our addiction to lust and greed which are amongst the many bad human characteristics that have shaped our civilization then it becomes clear that there is a lot more that we still need to get under control than just the Environment.

For this reason as intelligent being that we are supposed to be I propose that we need to stop dancing around these issues (like we have done for the past 50 years) and meet these problems and existential threats head on by creating a new global organization that can address all the threats to the future of Humanity and the World at the same time and find solutions that can be implemented quickly before we go past the point of no return on any of these fronts.

The same organization can also be put in charge of planning to prevent or minimize the impact and damage caused by natural and manmade disasters and events that might arise unexpectedly such as getting hit by a huge asteroid.

But creating such organization at the Global level requires that we as the Human Race ascend to a higher level of existence and thinking and thus it takes us back to what I said earlier in this post:


" We as the Human Race need to ascend to a new level of existence and thinking that allows us to find common grounds over the Universal Principles and Values that have been derived from Logic and Compassion and that is going to propel us in to a new Era of understanding and tolerance so that we can live in peace with our Environment and all the living things and entities on Earth and beyond.

We need to abandon all the outdated fanatical and extremist political, religious, racial, and economical ideologies, philosophies, and doctrines that have failed us and use all the resources and technologies at our disposal to find new ways of managing the World that would make it possible for us to put an end to all that has being ailing Humanity and our Home Planet and that can allow us to be able to live a righteous, productive, safe, happy, and healthy life. "

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

That definitely puts things in perspective. It really is an existential question. If our lifespan was extended, or we lived forever, I'd be more confident that collectively we'd arrive at a solution. Just as politicians only have a limited term, so too the winds of change blow.

 

[oldtimer]

So, are you all going to help save the World or not.

 

[oldtimer]

NamePros is a microcosm of the World at large with members from all parts of the Globe, and so if we can find some common grounds here over how best to save the Environment and our Home Planet then there will be some hope that the rest of the World can find the right path going forward too.

IMO

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While written some years ago by a highly qualified author, who unfortunately is no longer alive, this book, Sustainable Energy: Without The Hot Air, has many insights related to the topics in this long thread.

https://www.withouthotair.com/

While they do sell the book, section by section it can be read free on the site linked above.

What I liked most is, it tries to distinguish what life choices we can each make and which ones really have little impact and which make a significant difference, while at same time suggest what governments and foundations need to do (he was UK Energy Advisor, or something like that title, for some period).

Bob

 

[Alop]

Freaking “Jeff Gibbs” ...your video doesn’t work anymore :/

 

[Alop]

Hearing about harvesting energy from stars reminds me of Ancient Egyptian times and their pyramids

 

[Reddstagg]

So I watched this movie by Michael Moore. Did not know this came out last year in May 2020.

We've all seen the "save the Earth" propaganda.

With keywords like below.

Sustainable/sustainability
Green
Eco
Carbon emissions
Carbon Neutral
green house gases
Global Warming
Pollution


The solutions to "save the Earth" were in a "green" way

Solar Power
Wind Power


with the ultimate goal to eliminate coal use and reduce green house gases.

The Truth? on Cloudy or rainy days. Solar is not 100% efficient and at night? the efficiency is obviously ZERO.

On non-windy days wind power efficient is less to zero.

during down times both methods secretly will always have a connection to coal powered energy production.

or even LPG.

and then there is power generated from burning BIOMASS.

Biomass sounds pretty cool. And you tell someone "Biomass" most would never know it is the cutting down of forests to burn trees to produce power.

lol

So to prevent global warming? The solution is to cut down the forest and all the trees? and keep coal and LPG as a back up power source?
lol

Good afternoon.

I care about our planet but I'm not yet someone who will chain themselves to railings or indeed trees.

Please bear in my that the following is just my limited opinion and maybe further investigation by both of us may enlighten us even further.

I remember when wood pellets were introduced to be used in a hopper which would automatically feed down into your burner. My understanding at that time and more so today is that they were a natural by product of the wood industry in the same way that mixed density fibre boards are for the contruction industry. Here, waste wood is shredded then laminated together to make 8x4 boards for construction.

Now, the pellet industry has evolved although it still exists but now the wood is compressed together and using the natural resin from the wood itself they are dried to create what we should simply be called briquettes. These are then burned instead of wooden blocks which are in themselves carbon neutral.

I don't think that they just go around chopping down trees so that we can keep warm. I think it is a lot more environmentally friendly than that and simply uses left over wood from the lumber or furniture making industries.

I may be wrong, but I'm not an environmental scientist or anything....I'm just a simple domainer lol.

Now South American hardwoods are a different matter and moves have taken place to ensure that most imports are done under licence and in the UK/Ireland I think this is governed by I think the Forestry Stewardship Council (FSC) or some other such independent body.

I'm a furniture restorer in my spare time and I like nothing better than returning an antique chair or table back to its best and save it from just beong burned or indeed being put into landfil.

I hope that this has maybe clarifies some of the issues. We must keep on fighting the good fight.

Regards,

Reddstagg