debate I'm skeptical... Are you?!?

[Josh R]

Mike Mann reports all these domain sales which is great for him and the industry. But how real are they?

He reports very large sale prices that would only be justifiable from an end-user stand point. Even then, some of these prices are far-fetched based on the domain quality.

Now my question is, after days, weeks, months even years, why are these domains still in his name?.. Normally, the ones that are not in his name will be under privacy and not resolve to anything.

I'ts actually very difficult to find too many sales that are actually being used by an end-user. Please correct me if I'm wrong by all means... I've looked through many...

icram.com
lingerieboutique.com
shays.com
riseup.org
WeAreParents.com
Football.co

Old one for you as well, which triggered by interest.
FromRagsToRiches.com - Apparently sold in 2012 for 26K --- Never moved away from DomainMarket.com

I'm sure he has many very legit sales, but something just doesn't feel right to me?.. Thoughts?

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

@Axorees I don't understand because:
icram.com = Whois updated
WeAreParents.com = Whois updated
shays.com = Whois went into privacy with Microsoft nameservers
Football.co = name transfered to name.com under privacy and updated nameserves
riseup.org = too fresh (still nameservers have been updated)
lingerieboutique.com = where did you find this sale?
FromRagsToRiches.com = domain was transferred to godaddy (which doesn't change whois by default)

Which one of these sales do you question?

 

[Josh R]

@Axorees I don't understand because:
icram.com = Whois updated
WeAreParents.com = Whois updated
shays.com = Whois went into privacy with Microsoft nameservers
Football.co = name transfered to name.com under privacy and updated nameserves
riseup.org = too fresh (still nameservers have been updated)
lingerieboutique.com = where did you find this sale?
FromRagsToRiches.com = domain was transferred to godaddy (which doesn't change whois by default)

Which one of these sales do you question?

Perhaps you are misunderstanding.... I'm simply wondering why none of them are being used and a lot of them still forward to domainmarket.com... I didn't hand select these names I just looked at the most recent reported sales that I could find... Not 1 is being used by an end-user... That seems slightly strange to me, because the prices paid are not re-seller prices.....WeAreParents.com whois updataed to SafeNames LTD?... Is that some kind of privacy as well?

All I'm saying, is that I think it's strange that people are paying all this money for domains and not using them at all. You can't tell me that it's normal for buyers to not update anything when purchasing a domain. It happens occasionally but not the majority of the time when high prices are paid.

 

[Josh R]

Just to add,
I know that when "premium" domains get sold for high prices, they will usually end up parked/undeveloped. But these are normally very premium domains..... The ones I'm referring to are not very premium so most of the time, you would think that they are purchased with an end-user purpose?

 

[ajkula]

Yes, I am...for a lot of reported sales in this industry..

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

@Axorees your post seems to question the validity of the sales also.

WeAreParents.com:
Registrant Organisation: Dun & Bradstreet, Inc.
Safenames is a brand protection agency and registrar

You need to start from older sales and not recent ones. But as I said a domain name that remains undeveloped means nothing. I sold a very high value name that will not be developed by its owner.

I know the buyer of football.co and he is not an end user. He bought a few domains from me a few years back.

 

[Josh R]

@Axorees your post seems to question the validity of the sales also.

WeAreParents.com:
Registrant Organisation: Dun & Bradstreet, Inc.
Safenames is a brand protection agency and registrar

You need to start from older sales and not recent ones. But as I said a domain name that remains undeveloped means nothing. I sold a very high value name that will not be developed by its owner.

I know the buyer of football.co and he is not an end user. He bought a few domains from me a few years back.

Fair enough.
Something just doesn't seem right is what I'm saying. Hope you're not taking offense by this... Maybe sales are being reported before escrow is closed in some cases?... Like I said in my initial post, the majority are probably very legit, but something seems off based on the quality of the domains being sold and none seem to be used.

 

[Josh R]

Some examples of ones that are being used.
CannabisAssociation.com
SkinWin.com
HeyBabe.com
Estera.com
And many many more. I have a feeling that sometimes there are reported sales that fall through though. Which may be the case for domains like FromRagsToRiches.com?

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

Creating doubt without proof (and actually proof to the contrary) is not very helpful.
Just because these average domains get average and in some cases a little over average prices is not a reason to doubt them.
Mike Mann uses his own payment processing system so most of the sales don't go to escrow and are BIN sales.

$26k for FromRagsToRiches.com seems right to me.

 

[Josh R]

Creating doubt without proof (and actually proof to the contrary) is not very helpful.
Just because these average domains get average and in some cases a little over average prices is not a reason to doubt them.
Mike Mann uses his own payment processing system so most of the sales don't go to escrow and are BIN sales.

$26k for FromRagsToRiches.com seems right to me.

How does it seem right that the whois ownership has never been updated and still forwards to domainmarket.com?... You can't seriously tell me that "seems right" after someone spent 26K on it...

Anyway. I get your point and I'm just a skeptic I guess.

 

[Grego85]

football.co goes to a sales lander. I find it a bit hard to believe someone payed 50k for it to try and resell.

 

[MapleDots]

OP makes a good point to question. Some of the biggest ponzi schemes have pulled the wool over peoples eyes for years, and later on everyone asks... how did I not see it.

I cannot say if Mike Mann is legit or not because I don't personally know the man but I see OP's point that it can leave room for interpretation when large sale domains don't get used.

In the domaining world I live by only one rule....

50% of the reported sales are total BS. Assume you are dealing with that 50% and maybe, just maybe, you won't lose your shirt.

Chances are at least a few of his domains fit into that category but then again you don't get as big as his portfolio without some significant sales.

 

[Josh R]

OP makes a good point to question. Some of the biggest ponzi schemes have pulled the wool over peoples eyes for years, and later on everyone asks... how did I not see it.

I cannot say if Mike Mann is legit or not because I don't personally know the man but I see OP's point that it can leave room for interpretation when large sale domains don't get used.

In the domaining world I live by only one rule....

50% of the reported sales are total BS. Assume you are dealing with that 50% and maybe, just maybe, you won't lose your shirt.

Chances are at least a few of his domains fit into that category but then again you don't get as big as his portfolio without some significant sales.

Agreed.
Don't know the guy and I'm sure he's a great guy and certainly a very successful entrepreneur.
I'm sure there are sales he reports that end up falling through on the back-end.

 

[alistair80]

Just to clarify: I sold USUncut.com to the massive fb page a while ago and they still seem to have not updated whois. While at times, whois is updated fairly quickly after a sale, it's not always the case.
Mike Mann has a pretty decent network of buyers and he hires very good sales people. You can't question his work ethic. He works very hard and is the type of person that won't retire even though he could.
Have you met or spoken to in person to any known folks in the industry?

 

[Josh R]

Just to clarify: I sold USUncut.com to the massive fb page a while ago and they still seem to have not updated whois. While at times, whois is updated fairly quickly after a sale, it's not always the case.
Mike Mann has a pretty decent network of buyers and he hires very good sales people. You can't question his work ethic. He works very hard and is the type of person that won't retire even though he could.
Have you met or spoken to in person to any known folks in the industry?

Of course .. not questioning this guys work ethic at all. Not sure where you got that from... for me it's rare that an end-user comes knocking and then doesn't use the domain or even update whois or redirect the name... it seems that people are saying it's common... however I believe it's more uncommon.

Note: it's far more common for very premium domains.

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

Very very common...
How many names have you sold to end-users?

 

[Josh R]

Very very common...
How many names have you sold to end-users?

Not many. Maybe 10.
I think they all still have or had sites on them when I initially sold them though. Couple of them didn't update Whois info for a little while.

Again it depends on what type of name you sell.
When you sell a name like FromRagsToRiches.com I would expect some kind of use for it.
When you sell a name like Sport.com it could easily just get parked somewhere and not be used.

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

So you had a couple of questionable sales. So I think you only had 8 sales...
Got my point?

Also you have some strange opinion that the worst names should be developed while the better ones no while both are bought by end-users...

 

[Dream Hunter]

indeed

 

[Asfas1000]

I am not sceptical because :

1. I can'see how MM can benefit from fake reported sales
2. I am sure MM knows that domainers can find the truth about a sale
3. With 250,000 domains and thousands of sales MM will always have something extraordinary to report
4. A lot of sold domains remain with the old WHOIS details and often do not get developed

Unless there is concrete evidence suggesting otherwise, I can't see why one should be sceptical....

 

[Josh R]

I want to make it clear to everyone reading the thread. I'm by no means insinuating that domainmarket reports fake sales.
I'm just skeptical on large sale prices on some average names that aren't even used. You would think they have been purchased with a purpose the majority of the time. Even if that purpose is to just park them.

 

[SRW]

IMHO - A lot depends on the "type of end-user" and the "type of domain" and reason for acquisition. We have sold domains to Amazon/Google a few years ago . .. none of them resolve. Ditto for domains purchased after months of negotiations. (all low/mid $xx,xxx but less than $50,000)

Domains that are active/pending product brands tend to resolve as they should because the company has already invested in IP for the brand and needs to capitalize on that with an exact match domain showing its product (as opposed to purchasing the domain for IP protection/defensive purposes only).

If a large company buys a domain name for reasons other than the foregoing, however, those domain names often get lost in the red tape . . . or the person who championed the sale left he company, attorney left the outside IP firm, someone dropped the ball, or "Larry was supposed to update whois/nameservers . . .not me!" . . . etc. Also, many domains are shelved for future use and it would be too risky to place a non-controlling ad-feed (parked page) as a page-holder (unless the company needed the .73 cents / day).

I would venture to say from most domains purchased by larger companies ($25M + annual) that are NOT 1) .com, 2) brand-related (exact match tangible goods (mostly) .. . as opposed to slogans or cute phrases) and 3) sold for more than $50,000 do not resolve . . . I know that it is counter-intuitive /senseless but we found that to be true. Moreover, there is no PERSONAL connection to the domain name like with smaller companies . . .so its essentially $10,000 for a domain name today . .. . and $20,000 for stirrer straws/sugar packets for tomorrow.

That is the skinny from our experience . .. can't comment of the specifics of the domains mentioned is this thread but IMHO there is no reason to doubt the published sale prices even if none of them resolved/dated whois . . . etc.

 

[frank-germany]

IMHO - A lot depends on the "type of end-user" and the "type of domain" and reason for acquisition. We have sold domains to Amazon/Google a few years ago . .. none of them resolve. Ditto for domains purchased after months of negotiations. (all low/mid $xx,xxx but less than $50,000)

Domains that are active/pending product brands tend to resolve as they should because the company has already invested in IP for the brand and needs to capitalize on that with an exact match domain showing its product (as opposed to purchasing the domain for IP protection/defensive purposes only).

If a large company buys a domain name for reasons other than the foregoing, however, those domain names often get lost in the red tape . . . or the person who championed the sale left he company, attorney left the outside IP firm, someone dropped the ball, or "Larry was supposed to update whois/nameservers . . .not me!" . . . etc. Also, many domains are shelved for future use and it would be too risky to place a non-controlling ad-feed (parked page) as a page-holder (unless the company needed the .73 cents / day).

I would venture to say from most domains purchased by larger companies ($25M + annual) that are NOT 1) .com, 2) brand-related (exact match tangible goods (mostly) .. . as opposed to slogans or cute phrases) and 3) sold for more than $50,000 do not resolve . . . I know that it is counter-intuitive /senseless but we found that to be true. Moreover, there is no PERSONAL connection to the domain name like with smaller companies . . .so its essentially $10,000 for a domain name today . .. . and $20,000 for stirrer straws/sugar packets for tomorrow.

That is the skinny from our experience . .. can't comment of the specifics of the domains mentioned is this thread but IMHO there is no reason to doubt the published sale prices even if none of them resolved/dated whois . . . etc.

the buyer does what ever he wants with a domain
if you sell a domain for $140 USD
the guy will want to add value fast
and do something

protective buying just wants to secure the domain
so nobody else can buy it

 

[dordomai]

even many 7 figure purchases do not resolve. not unusual.

 

[MapleDots]

I want to make it clear to everyone reading the thread. I'm by no means insinuating that domainmarket reports fake sales.

Oh, I'll guarantee you there are fake sales reported. If I wanted to hype a domain sale I would TECHNICALLY sell it to my holding company, friend, wifes' maiden name etc. Report the sale for 150k and a year or two later try to remarket it.

Honestly, I have no doubt similar events happen in the industry, that is why a lot of people go bust, they believe all the big sale reporting. I won't isolate any person or company but I know of a few situations where I caught on right away.

I will usually only buy a domain name if I can see a potential to market it myself. I have made a few exceptions on speculation but I try to stick to my area of experience whenever possible. I find when I get sidetracked I can burn through cash pretty fast.

 

[namelancer]

How did you even read all of that.. Quickest response ever. Almost feel like you're a bot.

I read it

Congratulations, @Shuttlepro, You've just passed the Turing Test