debate I'm skeptical... Are you?!?

[Josh R]

Mike Mann reports all these domain sales which is great for him and the industry. But how real are they?

He reports very large sale prices that would only be justifiable from an end-user stand point. Even then, some of these prices are far-fetched based on the domain quality.

Now my question is, after days, weeks, months even years, why are these domains still in his name?.. Normally, the ones that are not in his name will be under privacy and not resolve to anything.

I'ts actually very difficult to find too many sales that are actually being used by an end-user. Please correct me if I'm wrong by all means... I've looked through many...

icram.com
lingerieboutique.com
shays.com
riseup.org
WeAreParents.com
Football.co

Old one for you as well, which triggered by interest.
FromRagsToRiches.com - Apparently sold in 2012 for 26K --- Never moved away from DomainMarket.com

I'm sure he has many very legit sales, but something just doesn't feel right to me?.. Thoughts?

 

[RJ]

Disclaimer- I don't know anything about Michael Mann or his business. I just wanted to comment that it's not uncommon for end user buyers to leave auxiliary domains unused indefinitely. When I look at names I've sold, there's a significant portion that still point nowhere or occasionally have the same nameservers I left it with.

One of the names on your list, weareparents.com, for example, shows whois as being held by an IP protection business. It may have been purchased defensively by wereparents.com but they haven't gotten around to redirecting it to their main domain. They might never.

WHOIS changes should reflect ownership changes of legitimate sales, but there are registrars that don't automatically update contact information when domains are transferred.

Again, this is not specific to MM, just based on my own experiences buying and selling domains.

 

[E-Promote]

I don't have any info myself but I applaud investigative journalism, especially when there is risk of backlash

 

[donnied79]

Guys, you probably compare yourself to Mike Mann and think "hey, I have great domains I can't sell and he sells mediocre domains for XX.XXX".
But you shouldn't.
He owns so many domains that is a game number and it's natural that he makes some great sale on average domains.
Without them he would be broken in 3 months, killed by renewals

 

[Mike Mann]

The correct answer is all of those are clean sales. Once in a blue moon one is returned for credit card fraud. There are a variety of reasons people dont transfer away quickly as mentioned above.

 

[Josh R]

How did you even read all of that.. Quickest response ever. Almost feel like you're a bot.

 

[SRW]

IMHO - A lot depends on the "type of end-user" and the "type of domain" and reason for acquisition. We have sold domains to Amazon/Google a few years ago . .. none of them resolve. Ditto for domains purchased after months of negotiations. (all low/mid $xx,xxx but less than $50,000)

Domains that are active/pending product brands tend to resolve as they should because the company has already invested in IP for the brand and needs to capitalize on that with an exact match domain showing its product (as opposed to purchasing the domain for IP protection/defensive purposes only).

If a large company buys a domain name for reasons other than the foregoing, however, those domain names often get lost in the red tape . . . or the person who championed the sale left he company, attorney left the outside IP firm, someone dropped the ball, or "Larry was supposed to update whois/nameservers . . .not me!" . . . etc. Also, many domains are shelved for future use and it would be too risky to place a non-controlling ad-feed (parked page) as a page-holder (unless the company needed the .73 cents / day).

I would venture to say from most domains purchased by larger companies ($25M + annual) that are NOT 1) .com, 2) brand-related (exact match tangible goods (mostly) .. . as opposed to slogans or cute phrases) and 3) sold for more than $50,000 do not resolve . . . I know that it is counter-intuitive /senseless but we found that to be true. Moreover, there is no PERSONAL connection to the domain name like with smaller companies . . .so its essentially $10,000 for a domain name today . .. . and $20,000 for stirrer straws/sugar packets for tomorrow.

That is the skinny from our experience . .. can't comment of the specifics of the domains mentioned is this thread but IMHO there is no reason to doubt the published sale prices even if none of them resolved/dated whois . . . etc.

 

[MapleDots]

I want to make it clear to everyone reading the thread. I'm by no means insinuating that domainmarket reports fake sales.

Oh, I'll guarantee you there are fake sales reported. If I wanted to hype a domain sale I would TECHNICALLY sell it to my holding company, friend, wifes' maiden name etc. Report the sale for 150k and a year or two later try to remarket it.

Honestly, I have no doubt similar events happen in the industry, that is why a lot of people go bust, they believe all the big sale reporting. I won't isolate any person or company but I know of a few situations where I caught on right away.

I will usually only buy a domain name if I can see a potential to market it myself. I have made a few exceptions on speculation but I try to stick to my area of experience whenever possible. I find when I get sidetracked I can burn through cash pretty fast.

 

[namelancer]

How did you even read all of that.. Quickest response ever. Almost feel like you're a bot.

I read it

Congratulations, @Shuttlepro, You've just passed the Turing Test

 

[comati]

Although it is always good to go through life with a healthy level of skepticism and it is clear that a few very good questions have been raised in this thread, the truth is that domains being parked after purchase (even after years of purchase) is not unusual. Most of the names I have sold for thousands of dollars are not been used.

yeah man, people are weird

domains sold years ago, never used
domains sold years ago, never used, dropped, went to auction sold for more than i got for them
domains sold years ago, never used, dropped, went to auction, got them back
domains sold years ago, never used, dropped, got them back at GD closeout for $5
domains sold years ago, never used, dropped, still available to this day
domains sold years ago, still shows my contact info
domains sold years ago, still shows my contact info, at a registrar i've never used

... and I think everyone gets a better offer on a name he no longer owns, once in a while.
uuh, that hurts like a mofo

 

[carob]

... and I think everyone gets a better offer on a name he no longer owns, once in a while.
uuh, that hurts like a mofo

But also beware there - there is a known scam of buying a cheap domain, then a new buyer approaches the original seller with a big offer - so the original owner buys it back at a huge increase from the original buyer to sell it to the new buyer who promptly disappears.

 

[GoKaizen]

https://www.strategicrevenue.com/80...uyers-leave-parked-redirected-or-failing-dns/

https://www.strategicrevenue.com/ma...domain-sales-of-all-time-just-going-to-waste/

https://www.strategicrevenue.com/to...indicate-strong-interest-desire-by-end-users/

 

[Josh R]

how much did football.co sell for?

50K

 

[MapleDots]

OP makes a good point to question. Some of the biggest ponzi schemes have pulled the wool over peoples eyes for years, and later on everyone asks... how did I not see it.

I cannot say if Mike Mann is legit or not because I don't personally know the man but I see OP's point that it can leave room for interpretation when large sale domains don't get used.

In the domaining world I live by only one rule....

50% of the reported sales are total BS. Assume you are dealing with that 50% and maybe, just maybe, you won't lose your shirt.

Chances are at least a few of his domains fit into that category but then again you don't get as big as his portfolio without some significant sales.

 

[frank-germany]

IMHO - A lot depends on the "type of end-user" and the "type of domain" and reason for acquisition. We have sold domains to Amazon/Google a few years ago . .. none of them resolve. Ditto for domains purchased after months of negotiations. (all low/mid $xx,xxx but less than $50,000)

Domains that are active/pending product brands tend to resolve as they should because the company has already invested in IP for the brand and needs to capitalize on that with an exact match domain showing its product (as opposed to purchasing the domain for IP protection/defensive purposes only).

If a large company buys a domain name for reasons other than the foregoing, however, those domain names often get lost in the red tape . . . or the person who championed the sale left he company, attorney left the outside IP firm, someone dropped the ball, or "Larry was supposed to update whois/nameservers . . .not me!" . . . etc. Also, many domains are shelved for future use and it would be too risky to place a non-controlling ad-feed (parked page) as a page-holder (unless the company needed the .73 cents / day).

I would venture to say from most domains purchased by larger companies ($25M + annual) that are NOT 1) .com, 2) brand-related (exact match tangible goods (mostly) .. . as opposed to slogans or cute phrases) and 3) sold for more than $50,000 do not resolve . . . I know that it is counter-intuitive /senseless but we found that to be true. Moreover, there is no PERSONAL connection to the domain name like with smaller companies . . .so its essentially $10,000 for a domain name today . .. . and $20,000 for stirrer straws/sugar packets for tomorrow.

That is the skinny from our experience . .. can't comment of the specifics of the domains mentioned is this thread but IMHO there is no reason to doubt the published sale prices even if none of them resolved/dated whois . . . etc.

the buyer does what ever he wants with a domain
if you sell a domain for $140 USD
the guy will want to add value fast
and do something

protective buying just wants to secure the domain
so nobody else can buy it

 

[maven]

Mike Mann reports all these domain sales which is great for him and the industry. But how real are they?

Don't know the guy and I'm sure he's a great guy and certainly a very successful entrepreneur.

I'm by no means insinuating that domainmarket reports fake sales.

lol, this is gold!

 

[carob]

If you really want to look into this you need to work out what the default behaviour for domain pushes and transfers was for the transactions and registrars involved.

Some places if you push a domain it automatically takes the default whois settings of the receiving account, possibly also nameserver settings.

Some places you have a choice to keep the pushing account's whois, but probably defaulting to the receivers.

Does any registrar keep the sender's whois by default?

Same questions for transfers.

I have sold domains where the buyer never changed nameservers, but I would not let them keep whois unchanged. To me a majority of sold domains not updating the whois would seem odd and worth talking about.

 

[Silentptnr]

Maybe they got repossessed.

I've heard of situations where domains are sold on payment plans, then fall apart. Who knows.

 

[infosec3]

Although it is always good to go through life with a healthy level of skepticism and it is clear that a few very good questions have been raised in this thread, the truth is that domains being parked after purchase (even after years of purchase) is not unusual. Most of the names I have sold for thousands of dollars are not been used.

Ironically, the cheap GEOs I have sold are indeed redirecting to the Website of those who bought them, but the more expensive ones are not.

There is a variety of reasons why someone may buy a domain and park it. Here are a few of them.

Some people have a lot of money and make the wrong investments. Just as many non-rich newbies register names they later discover are worthless, there are rich newbies who discover domaining and start buying expensive names thinking they may be able to sell them for much more. I am not necessarily referring to six figure names, but certainly to names between the four and five figures. And, yes, it may also happen with six-figure names.

There are others that invest in a particular name because they have plans of building a business, but abandon the idea for a variety reasons and are left with the expensive domain they bought.

I do not personally know Mike Mann, but I don't believe he has the need to make up his sales data. First, have in mind that it is an undeniable fact that he owns great names. But, in addition, he owns an enormous domain portfolio. When you combine, skills, good names and portfolio size, sales must happen one way or the other.

 

[toughdomains]

dont think its uncommon at all that buyers dont host, use or even park names. Its one of the things we are trying to change. about 30k names registered each day and if we could just host 10% of them with our instant domain development we would be happy. when i speak to non domainers they dont even realize that their registrar is making money on their parked traffic by default. registering a name is like bringing life to a name. it should be attended to.

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

Not sure if I understand.
Are you questioning these 7 sales?
icram.com
lingerieboutique.com
shays.com
riseup.org
WeAreParents.com
Football.co
and
FromRagsToRiches.com

 

[Kate]

Could it be that MM is announcing sales before the escrow has even cleared ?

 

[Josh R]

@Axorees please explain what is the common pattern of the domains you posted.

What do mean by nothing gets updated? Most if not all of the domains you list had whois changed or nameservers changed or registrar changed or combination of the above.

Being not developed means nothing. Especially for fresh sales like these.

Not sure what you aren't understanding... I'm saying that the ones I looked at are either under privacy, and not pointing anywhere or have not changed ownership and still point to domainmarket.com... I finid it unusual that high prices are paid and then whois info is not updated or the domain still points to domainmarket.com 5 years later in some cases. That's all.

Not entirely sure what you're confused about.

 

[Grego85]

how much did football.co sell for?

 

[OnlineDomainCom]

@Axorees I don't understand because:
icram.com = Whois updated
WeAreParents.com = Whois updated
shays.com = Whois went into privacy with Microsoft nameservers
Football.co = name transfered to name.com under privacy and updated nameserves
riseup.org = too fresh (still nameservers have been updated)
lingerieboutique.com = where did you find this sale?
FromRagsToRiches.com = domain was transferred to godaddy (which doesn't change whois by default)

Which one of these sales do you question?