I think you guys are making a big mistake

[sgtppr]

Are domainers making a mistake?

cliffs notes at bottom

ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days. i think the advice on www.domainnewbie.com and much of the advice on this board is really short-sighted and wrong.

this is the hypothesis i have formulated which i'd like feedback on. if im wrong, tell me why.



the advice passed around on this board, boards like it and by the various gurus, primarily boils down to telling people how to get good at flipping domains. how to select domains that will be highly liquid on the open market, which you can sell for a fast profit.


true or false?





ok well to me thats a retarded strategy unless you just have some aversion to getting a normal job, or you think you can make more doing that than you could doing something else...or because you like the perks of domain flipping over another job etc. those are all fine ends, but those are not the only ends.




i have a deep love affair with the internet, web 2.0, businesss 2.0, technology and all it can do for us as humans. i express that love by taking part in the revolution that is taking place all around us. i build websites and products and services i think people will like. isn't that what a domain name is for? to build something on?



if i have a choice between these two domains:



models.tv

and

wie.com


i would take models.tv in an instant

sure i'm probably going to pay less for models.tv, but this isn't about money, its about which one i can develop into a better site some day, or which one somebody else might make into a great site by leasing the domain from me or though some kind of partnership. its not about which one appeals to a broader market of potential buyers. great artists don't decide what to paint based upon how many people might buy their painting. in fact many of them were ridiculed until after their death! i think the same will happen with domainers. once you guys stop churning domains with each other and making money for sedo, godaddy and paypal, the market for all these stupid domains will hit the floor. you want to know what end users think about qkft.com? they think its lame unless their company happens to have those initials


cliffs notes

good domain selection should be based on how usable a domain is by an end-user, not on how likely you are to flip it to another domainer

 

[Morph]

There isn't one single direction of the advice given by 'this forum'

We all do different things, some of us make a great living flipping sites and domains, others the same with development, and some a mix of both.

I'm sure other people do other things - Either way, NamePros is very diverse and you will find people doing the same as you are, who can help you, and I'm sure you can help them sometimes.

Sounds like an awful sales pitch - But that's my experience of NamePros.

 

[TheBulldog]

This is mainly a domainer forum. People make money by flipping. Although some do invest for a longer period, I would say that at least 90% of the names around here are bought with resell in mind.

WIE.com is worth much much much more then models.tv.

.tv is a developers domain primarily right now, because the resale side of it is just not strong enough. I could flip Wie.com easily and buy 10 .tv's AND someone to dev them of the proceeds for just template sites.

That being said, this forum is for domainers. If you want to be a developer, there are other sections to talk about that, but realistically, we are resellers. That is what this place is all about.

 

[Michelle]

Welcome :hehe:

you said *** ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days

maybe you need alittle longer :hehe:

 

[Alex]

I would also choose a domain with more development potential over a liquid one, but many of us take domaining as the stock market. They need to be sure that, in need they can sell their assets (well domains are liabilities more exactly ), fast for a certain amount of money.

.tv for example is not a rock solid tld, though it is recognized more and more by internet users.

But they have premium pricing for premium domains, and premium renewal fees.

It depends only on what strategy you wish to have. If you wish to invest and not spend daily hours on domaining, then buy a domain that will get you offers from interested parties.

Some invest in future technologies, some are flippers, some are developers, some go only for traffic domains and make a living from parking. And unfortunately some are TM squatters.

Good luck with your domaining experience!

 

[Diabro]

PokerPie,

Not only do I think you are wrong I KNOW you are wrong.

If you develop good content like you say the domain name should not even matter.

If you have good useful content you can name a site IFORBEENTHERE.COM and people will got to it. You can brand it.

You make the mistake many people make in my experience. You see the way you wish things were and convince yourself into thinking that is the way it "should" be. Deal with the world the way it is....not how you think it "should" be.

BTW Mr. Internet Love what exactly would you do with models.tv?

 

[sgtppr]

Welcome :hehe:

you said *** ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days

maybe you need alittle longer :hehe:

thank you for posting in my thead but if you are going to say something like that i'd appreciate it if you can back it up with some examples or something.

 

[TheBulldog]

I would develop it into a site about model trains. A very bad one with an out of focus picture. Maybe my thumb would be in the picture as well to really irritate people.

 

[sgtppr]

PokerPie,

Not only do I think you are wrong I KNOW you are wrong.

If you develop good content like you say the domain name should not even matter.

If you have good useful content you can name a site IFORBEENTHERE.COM and people will got to it. You can brand it.

You make the mistake many people make in my experience. You see the way you wish things were and convince yourself into thinking that is the way it "should" be. Deal with the world the way it is....not how you think it "should" be.

BTW Mr. Internet Love what exactly would you do with models.tv?

ok this is a great post. i dont know if you are right or not but i know enough that i have to think about it for awhile to even figure out my opinion about what you have said.



models.tv what would i do with it?


www.myspace.com/pokerpie


i'd probably move that there for starters


or just keep it. i'm not suggesting everybody should develop every domain, just that the domains should make for good development someday by somebody.


it seems to me this is the question domainers ask themselves?


'how much can i sell this for'


instead of


'how much might an end user pay me for this someday?'




models.tv is worth xxx,xxx to the right end user imo selling it for $500 is lighting money on fire.

 

[Ross]

PorkiePie,

If you check out my new site YGrab.com, it will show you why .coms are valued the way they are by RESELLERS. If you read the whole thing you will get an understanding of why a generic .com is worth so much. If you also go all way to the bottom i point out that an end-user could pay anything for any domain. A domains true worth is what it is sold to an end-user for.

 

[Len]

Pokerpie I have a 'normal' job and I work damn hard at it! You think making a living at domaing is easy??? A lot of these guy's work 16hrs+/day at this!......Domaining for me is a hobby..why shouldn't I and other's make money doing something we love? Isn't that what makes the world turn? I never intended to get into domaining, I actually started with a couple of websites that I created from scratch knowing absolutely nothing. I am not exploiting anyone and no one is exploiting me. Domaining is addictive however....but it won't kill you. Lol!
Good luck to you...you will soon be hooked!

 

[Michelle]

thank you for posting in my thead but if you are going to say something like that i'd appreciate it if you can back it up with some examples or something.

example :yell:

the advice passed around on this board, boards like it and by the various gurus, primarily boils down to telling people how to get good at flipping domains. how to select domains that will be highly liquid on the open market, which you can sell for a fast profit.


I think you will find the advice here is much.. much more :hehe:

 

[estibot.com]

Refreshing viewpoint, to be sure.

To each their own, I guess. Flipping seems to be a viable way to make a living if you're really good at it, and as we have learned here, it's hard work.

I would not personally be satisfied with a $500,000-a-year producing parked portfolio (although it would be nice). After all, it would just "be" there. Parked domains with ads on them. I would be wondering whether I am providing real value to people. But as the economists say, there must be some value, otherwise there wouldn't be a market, so fair enough. It would just not be my cup of tea.

But I do believe the Bulldog has a very valid point here:

.tv is a developers domain primarily right now, because the resale side of it is just not strong enough. I could flip Wie.com easily and buy 10 .tv's AND someone to dev them of the proceeds for just template sites.

Can't hardly argue with that.

Flipping domains is no different from buying&selling any other goods or services. It's a way to make money just like anything else. I do not enjoy it much, but the main reason for this is that I am terrible at marketing.

Many domainers do a bit of both, domain flipping and website development. Domain flipping is a great way to fund development projects. That's what I do.

As an investment, domains are certainly a smart choice. The expected return is bigger than in stocks. At least for now. Also, good domains pay generous "dividends" in the form of PPC income. Doesn't get much better than that, and can't argue with a 61% annual increase in value.

Whether the domain name boom goes bust or not - that really depends on whether the way we use the Internet changes radically or not. At some point it will, but probably not in the very near future. As long as we type domain names in our browsers to get information, generic keyword domains will only keep increasing their value.

From a website developer's perspective, nothing better than a good generic dotcom to start a website on. Complete with targeted type-in traffic - not something .tv can provide.

I also enjoy developing and providing informational and entertainment value to people, but then I'm not doing this for a living, so I can afford to enjoy some "artistic" liberties. If I quit my day job, I will find myself flipping domains like crazy...

Good luck to flippers & developers alike-
Esa

 

[sgtppr]

PorkiePie,

If you check out my new site YGrab.com, it will show you why .coms are valued the way they are by RESELLERS. If you read the whole thing you will get an understanding of why a generic .com is worth so much. If you also go all way to the bottom i point out that an end-user could pay anything for any domain. A domains true worth is what it is sold to an end-user for.

thats a great page. though the emphasis on keywords and ad competition is about type-in traffic or having adsense websites right? if they want to rename the NFL didda.com the keywords related to didda.com wont mean anything and they might be able to get that domain for $400, but the NFL would have paid $5,000,000! thats my point. you guys dont focus nearly enough on how to get end users to pay you top dollar for your domains and you spend WAY TOO much time focusing on how to sell them to each other

 

[Diabro]

PokerPie,

I did not go to your myspace page but I cannot see what you could do on there that would require your own domain.

If you need a domain start looking for one that you can brand.

POKERMODELS.NET and ORG are free at this time.

I can still find useful domains if I search and try.

 

[sgtppr]

just to be clear, i realize i probably dont' know what im talking about. but i also know that newbies have one thing up on people in the industry, a fresh perspective. i thought maybe i had made some connection here that you guys didn't see....if not, no problem, not trying to insult anybody and hope i dont come off that way

 

[Michelle]

you guys dont focus nearly enough on how to get end users to pay you top dollar for your domains and you spend WAY TOO much time focusing on how to sell them to each other

I think if you got to know some of us alittle more you may realise what a professional domain forum this is

 

[Ross]

If you want to know about how NamePros members approach end-users here is a HUGE thread on that http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/68798-how-to-find-potential-end-users.html

 

[Mark]

Opinions are like well .... You know. Everyone is entitled to theirs - As long as it is done in a "Polite" manner (Your post is offensive toward people with disabilities - like it or not). While we may not all agree with peoples opinions , They have a right to post them.

On any site or forum you will find many opposing opinions , As it should be. And to openly state it is wrong based on 30 hours of research is just Wrong (No pun intended). There are people in this very forum with 10+ years experience , And even they still learn new things. This industry is still very new compared to other forms of Media and ever changing.

There are many ethical ways to make a living in this industry - and None of them are necessarily Right or Wrong .... It depends on the person and what means they have to enter the industry to me.

I also think you're missing the whole point on LLL.com's and other related niches ... They are rare because there will never be any more. I'm not saying there will ever be another Models.tv either ... But there are literally hundreds of other domain extensions - None to date have ever compared to .com
Will any other extensions ever come close ? Who really knows ? - But we'll all have to hang out more than 30 hours to find out.

 

[brackis]

Michelle Wie is kinda cute, and very rich!

 

[Diabro]

just to be clear, i realize i probably dont' know what im talking about. but i also know that newbies have one thing up on people in the industry, a fresh perspective. i thought maybe i had made some connection here that you guys didn't see....if not, no problem, not trying to insult anybody and hope i dont come off that way

I'm new here but I have several domains. I am not trying to sell them. I have them for my own future developement use. I saw a need several years ago and purchased some. I feel I have some good ones and have made mistakes and let some drop that I wish I did not.

I also have some just to host email accounts which mostly are just profane but funny.

I have a day job and a sale would have to be for a lot of money because after taxes you have about 60% and I have everything I need now so unless it helped me a lot there is no icentive for me to sell.

There are still good domains out there and I am always tempted to register more but I would like to develope some now and I think that will cost me dollars now.

Good luck, you can still find good names if you look. THAT is where your new viewpoint will help you.

 

[sgtppr]

I am terrible at marketing.

From a website developer's perspective, nothing better than a good generic dotcom to start a website on. Complete with targeted type-in traffic - not something .tv can provide.

Thanks for the post. The only thing I have a problem with is you saying both of the above statements. If you are terrible at marketing how can you expect to be able to tell me what a good domain is for a website developer?

For some people thats true. But lets go back to Models.tv for instance. I am a marketer. To me, thats an edgy name. If you wanted a hip and young image and spent $20k on a great flash site and had a $200k marketing budget for it, thats a domain you can build yourself around. The .tv is damned near a positive thing to a marketer and to a web surfer! The only ones who seem not to get that are you guys =/

Michelle Wie is kinda cute, and very rich!

whoops. ok bad choice. that domain is at auction now, somebody should tell her. asians are very big on family, i'd think she would want it heh

 

[Diabro]

Michelle Wie is kinda cute, and very rich!

She is young and blames her caddy's for her failures.

Not sure if that is her fault or the families.

Also good catch. I did not know what Wie stood for. TY.

 

[Michelle]

The only ones who seem not to get that are you guys =/

Why are you being so negative ... Your new and you come in attact mode.. We welcome new members and try to help

 

[Mark]

I can take 220k and make somethingmadeup.tk a popular site ... But I don't suggest it.



I really suggest you do alot more reading.