I think you guys are making a big mistake

[sgtppr]

Are domainers making a mistake?

cliffs notes at bottom

ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days. i think the advice on www.domainnewbie.com and much of the advice on this board is really short-sighted and wrong.

this is the hypothesis i have formulated which i'd like feedback on. if im wrong, tell me why.



the advice passed around on this board, boards like it and by the various gurus, primarily boils down to telling people how to get good at flipping domains. how to select domains that will be highly liquid on the open market, which you can sell for a fast profit.


true or false?





ok well to me thats a retarded strategy unless you just have some aversion to getting a normal job, or you think you can make more doing that than you could doing something else...or because you like the perks of domain flipping over another job etc. those are all fine ends, but those are not the only ends.




i have a deep love affair with the internet, web 2.0, businesss 2.0, technology and all it can do for us as humans. i express that love by taking part in the revolution that is taking place all around us. i build websites and products and services i think people will like. isn't that what a domain name is for? to build something on?



if i have a choice between these two domains:



models.tv

and

wie.com


i would take models.tv in an instant

sure i'm probably going to pay less for models.tv, but this isn't about money, its about which one i can develop into a better site some day, or which one somebody else might make into a great site by leasing the domain from me or though some kind of partnership. its not about which one appeals to a broader market of potential buyers. great artists don't decide what to paint based upon how many people might buy their painting. in fact many of them were ridiculed until after their death! i think the same will happen with domainers. once you guys stop churning domains with each other and making money for sedo, godaddy and paypal, the market for all these stupid domains will hit the floor. you want to know what end users think about qkft.com? they think its lame unless their company happens to have those initials


cliffs notes

good domain selection should be based on how usable a domain is by an end-user, not on how likely you are to flip it to another domainer

 

[TheBulldog]

This is mainly a domainer forum. People make money by flipping. Although some do invest for a longer period, I would say that at least 90% of the names around here are bought with resell in mind.

WIE.com is worth much much much more then models.tv.

.tv is a developers domain primarily right now, because the resale side of it is just not strong enough. I could flip Wie.com easily and buy 10 .tv's AND someone to dev them of the proceeds for just template sites.

That being said, this forum is for domainers. If you want to be a developer, there are other sections to talk about that, but realistically, we are resellers. That is what this place is all about.

 

[sgtppr]

"they are rare because there will never be any more"


Ya I've read that. But what you guys dont get is NOBODY CARES. You guys are all fixated on this 'omg omg omg are LLLL's the new LLL's??'

what you dont get is that the end users dont give a ****. nobody cares that xql.com is taken cuz nobody wants that domain just like nobody wants Sperm-Doctor-Jobs.info

they are both useless to end users, save for a very small group of people. the only value i see in having rjxl.com is that Rogers Jackson Xiang Loberg might come to you someday and try to buy it for their law firm. But since its going to be worth so much money in 20 years when they come to you to try to buy it, they'll just pass and get rogersjacksonxiangloberg.com instead.

thats the same value Models.tv has. Somebody might really really want it someday, just like rjxl.com. The difference is, models.tv is good and easy to remember, but rjxl.com is easy to pass on cuz it looks like dookie and is confusing. so really it should be worthless....but this scacity thing is so important to you guys.

 

[sgtppr]

good post and point gene. i'm trying to inject enough times here that i know im a newb so that you guys can hopefully overlook when i forget to qualify certain things etc. thx for all the feedback. im going out for a few hours but will be happy to continue arguing when i return

ps the mods can edit any of my posts if they find something i've said offensive or too all encompassing...such as 'you guys' type statments. i realize they are not accurate, just trying to get my point across in as few words as possible

 

[equity78]

Let me get this straight something is not interesting because you say so ? That's hysterical, almost as hysterical as this entire thread.

First off there is no "you guys" People here are not related, and have many different business models, lifestyles and budgets.

Secondly the most successful domainers in the world do not post on domain forums,
Frank Schilling, Rick Schwartz, Scott Day, Kevin Ham, Sahar Sarid, Elequa, IREG, IREIT,NameMedia etc... None are posting on this forum so you have a small sampling of reading what a few have done to use as a thesis.

So you can pontificate whatever you like, and no its not fresh, there is always some new person who believes there way is the right way. When the only right way is what works for each individual.

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no NP$, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[TheBulldog]

Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no NP$, and may God have mercy on your soul.

If I may extrapolate......

Reading stupid rambling threads on Namepros=Lowered IQ+no NP$? If that is the case, is it not logical that those that have been around the longest and have read the most idiotic posts are ipso-facto, the dumbest, and since they are the onese doing a lot of flipping, perhaps newbie is right?

Or not. I can't decide, I lost my free will in the mobi section.

 

[equity78]

To put yourself in the same sentence with Buffet is beyond hysterical. That quote is been around for a long time and not even authored by Buffet, just repeated famously.

 

[TheBulldog]

You know, when you have an 80+ post thread, and everyone in it is responding that you are standing in poo up to your neck, don't you think it might be time to think that you might be wrong?

There really is no need to continue this.

Your statement is this: "You guys are in business, but it isn't right, or fair, and shouldn't continue."
The reply has been this: "This is how this business works. Supply and Demand is a key business principle."

You are basically the kid who got to the party late, and while everyone else brought chocalates, you could only find lemon drops.

 

[accent]

PokerPie I love your energy.

Folks, this guy is not trying to insult or tic off anyone, he is saying what he sees, and some of what he sees does not add up to him. His delivery is a little rough, I suggest we concentrate more on what he is trying to say.

Sometimes (most of the time) he is missing the background fabric that holds the apparently disconnected parts together. But an inteligent (IMHO) questioning attitude is a huge factor in great success in business, in any form. Look up Tulip Mania if you do not believe a market can lose touch with the real world.

Posted by Ronald Regging namepros, July, 2007:

So if you're looking to follow in the footsteps of others, you're already lacking the necessary skill to do what they did.

I saved that from another Noob thread, I think RR hit it right between the eyes.

 

[danielr]

The Truth About Selling to End Users

I can't hardly wait to see when "Sedo.com" will be visited by doctors, lawyers, engineers, salesman, priests, students, etc just to find the best domain for them and BUY IT!

Believe it or not many end users do find sites like SEDO/Afternic when they visit the parked landing page. For example: A lawyer who lives in Muleshoe Texas needs a website and finds out muleshoelawyer.com is unavailable. There is a good chance he might visit the Sedo parked page www.muleshoelawyer.com (this domain is for sale).

Most “end users” only need one domain and that is why it’s a small number of end users visit sites like SEDO. However, when the name they are interested in is taken…most end users just go with some off the wall name like MuleshoeTexaslawyer.com. I have noticed thought the past 5 years that I have been domaining… the domains just keep getting longer and longer. 5 years ago 3 word domains were almost unheard of.

One of the mistakes that many domainers make (who are trying to sell to end users), is that the domainer does NOT put themselves in the shoes of the end user (I am not talking about muleshoes).

Sometimes when “end users” go hunting for a domain and see how hard it is and how many domains are for sale, it looks tempting to jump into this business. I am sure many people on this forum got into domains when they actually tried to set u a website or needed a domain as an “end user” and saw what the market was like. The very same issue happened to me when I wanted to put up a domain in 2003 and was so upset that I could not buy a domain like eVegas.com or iVegas.com. I noticed all of them were undeveloped websites with for sale banners. Guess what, I thought this is too easy. You don’t have to go to Real Estate School to sell domains. But I learned some expensive lessons.

And this is why you are seeing so many new people coming into this business who are also learning expensive lessons. It reminds me of a friend of mine in College who Majored In Greek History (mythology). I asked him.. “What kind of job can u get with a degree in Greek History?”. He replied “Teaching Greek History”. Hmm, so all of his students will also teach Greek History one day also. So who are a lot of domains flipping domains to?... future domain flippers and some of them get stuck with the garbage.

I would also like to point out that I have had many sales on sites like SEDO and Afternic from “end users” who are buying up similar names for multiple websites… and u will see more of this in the future. I own a lot of PaydayLoan domains and had many simultaneous offers from the same “end user”. Thus, if you want to increase you chances of selling to end users then I suggest you list similar domains on your listing. Please view http://www.afternic.com/name.php?domain=philippineloan.com

 

[Morph]

There isn't one single direction of the advice given by 'this forum'

We all do different things, some of us make a great living flipping sites and domains, others the same with development, and some a mix of both.

I'm sure other people do other things - Either way, NamePros is very diverse and you will find people doing the same as you are, who can help you, and I'm sure you can help them sometimes.

Sounds like an awful sales pitch - But that's my experience of NamePros.

 

[Michelle]

Welcome :hehe:

you said *** ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days

maybe you need alittle longer :hehe:

 

[Alex]

I would also choose a domain with more development potential over a liquid one, but many of us take domaining as the stock market. They need to be sure that, in need they can sell their assets (well domains are liabilities more exactly ), fast for a certain amount of money.

.tv for example is not a rock solid tld, though it is recognized more and more by internet users.

But they have premium pricing for premium domains, and premium renewal fees.

It depends only on what strategy you wish to have. If you wish to invest and not spend daily hours on domaining, then buy a domain that will get you offers from interested parties.

Some invest in future technologies, some are flippers, some are developers, some go only for traffic domains and make a living from parking. And unfortunately some are TM squatters.

Good luck with your domaining experience!

 

[Diabro]

PokerPie,

Not only do I think you are wrong I KNOW you are wrong.

If you develop good content like you say the domain name should not even matter.

If you have good useful content you can name a site IFORBEENTHERE.COM and people will got to it. You can brand it.

You make the mistake many people make in my experience. You see the way you wish things were and convince yourself into thinking that is the way it "should" be. Deal with the world the way it is....not how you think it "should" be.

BTW Mr. Internet Love what exactly would you do with models.tv?

 

[sgtppr]

Welcome :hehe:

you said *** ok so i studied long and hard for probably 30 hours over the last three days

maybe you need alittle longer :hehe:

thank you for posting in my thead but if you are going to say something like that i'd appreciate it if you can back it up with some examples or something.

 

[TheBulldog]

I would develop it into a site about model trains. A very bad one with an out of focus picture. Maybe my thumb would be in the picture as well to really irritate people.

 

[sgtppr]

PokerPie,

Not only do I think you are wrong I KNOW you are wrong.

If you develop good content like you say the domain name should not even matter.

If you have good useful content you can name a site IFORBEENTHERE.COM and people will got to it. You can brand it.

You make the mistake many people make in my experience. You see the way you wish things were and convince yourself into thinking that is the way it "should" be. Deal with the world the way it is....not how you think it "should" be.

BTW Mr. Internet Love what exactly would you do with models.tv?

ok this is a great post. i dont know if you are right or not but i know enough that i have to think about it for awhile to even figure out my opinion about what you have said.



models.tv what would i do with it?


www.myspace.com/pokerpie


i'd probably move that there for starters


or just keep it. i'm not suggesting everybody should develop every domain, just that the domains should make for good development someday by somebody.


it seems to me this is the question domainers ask themselves?


'how much can i sell this for'


instead of


'how much might an end user pay me for this someday?'




models.tv is worth xxx,xxx to the right end user imo selling it for $500 is lighting money on fire.

 

[Ross]

PorkiePie,

If you check out my new site YGrab.com, it will show you why .coms are valued the way they are by RESELLERS. If you read the whole thing you will get an understanding of why a generic .com is worth so much. If you also go all way to the bottom i point out that an end-user could pay anything for any domain. A domains true worth is what it is sold to an end-user for.

 

[Len]

Pokerpie I have a 'normal' job and I work damn hard at it! You think making a living at domaing is easy??? A lot of these guy's work 16hrs+/day at this!......Domaining for me is a hobby..why shouldn't I and other's make money doing something we love? Isn't that what makes the world turn? I never intended to get into domaining, I actually started with a couple of websites that I created from scratch knowing absolutely nothing. I am not exploiting anyone and no one is exploiting me. Domaining is addictive however....but it won't kill you. Lol!
Good luck to you...you will soon be hooked!

 

[Michelle]

thank you for posting in my thead but if you are going to say something like that i'd appreciate it if you can back it up with some examples or something.

example :yell:

the advice passed around on this board, boards like it and by the various gurus, primarily boils down to telling people how to get good at flipping domains. how to select domains that will be highly liquid on the open market, which you can sell for a fast profit.


I think you will find the advice here is much.. much more :hehe:

 

[estibot.com]

Refreshing viewpoint, to be sure.

To each their own, I guess. Flipping seems to be a viable way to make a living if you're really good at it, and as we have learned here, it's hard work.

I would not personally be satisfied with a $500,000-a-year producing parked portfolio (although it would be nice). After all, it would just "be" there. Parked domains with ads on them. I would be wondering whether I am providing real value to people. But as the economists say, there must be some value, otherwise there wouldn't be a market, so fair enough. It would just not be my cup of tea.

But I do believe the Bulldog has a very valid point here:

.tv is a developers domain primarily right now, because the resale side of it is just not strong enough. I could flip Wie.com easily and buy 10 .tv's AND someone to dev them of the proceeds for just template sites.

Can't hardly argue with that.

Flipping domains is no different from buying&selling any other goods or services. It's a way to make money just like anything else. I do not enjoy it much, but the main reason for this is that I am terrible at marketing.

Many domainers do a bit of both, domain flipping and website development. Domain flipping is a great way to fund development projects. That's what I do.

As an investment, domains are certainly a smart choice. The expected return is bigger than in stocks. At least for now. Also, good domains pay generous "dividends" in the form of PPC income. Doesn't get much better than that, and can't argue with a 61% annual increase in value.

Whether the domain name boom goes bust or not - that really depends on whether the way we use the Internet changes radically or not. At some point it will, but probably not in the very near future. As long as we type domain names in our browsers to get information, generic keyword domains will only keep increasing their value.

From a website developer's perspective, nothing better than a good generic dotcom to start a website on. Complete with targeted type-in traffic - not something .tv can provide.

I also enjoy developing and providing informational and entertainment value to people, but then I'm not doing this for a living, so I can afford to enjoy some "artistic" liberties. If I quit my day job, I will find myself flipping domains like crazy...

Good luck to flippers & developers alike-
Esa

 

[sgtppr]

PorkiePie,

If you check out my new site YGrab.com, it will show you why .coms are valued the way they are by RESELLERS. If you read the whole thing you will get an understanding of why a generic .com is worth so much. If you also go all way to the bottom i point out that an end-user could pay anything for any domain. A domains true worth is what it is sold to an end-user for.

thats a great page. though the emphasis on keywords and ad competition is about type-in traffic or having adsense websites right? if they want to rename the NFL didda.com the keywords related to didda.com wont mean anything and they might be able to get that domain for $400, but the NFL would have paid $5,000,000! thats my point. you guys dont focus nearly enough on how to get end users to pay you top dollar for your domains and you spend WAY TOO much time focusing on how to sell them to each other

 

[Diabro]

PokerPie,

I did not go to your myspace page but I cannot see what you could do on there that would require your own domain.

If you need a domain start looking for one that you can brand.

POKERMODELS.NET and ORG are free at this time.

I can still find useful domains if I search and try.

 

[sgtppr]

just to be clear, i realize i probably dont' know what im talking about. but i also know that newbies have one thing up on people in the industry, a fresh perspective. i thought maybe i had made some connection here that you guys didn't see....if not, no problem, not trying to insult anybody and hope i dont come off that way

 

[Michelle]

you guys dont focus nearly enough on how to get end users to pay you top dollar for your domains and you spend WAY TOO much time focusing on how to sell them to each other

I think if you got to know some of us alittle more you may realise what a professional domain forum this is