How can I prevent another Afternic user from deleting and listing my domains for sale on Afternic?

[Arca]

I'm having some problems with Afternic user "latonas" (Rick Latona). Earlier this year, I purchased two domains from NameJet that were previously listed on Afternic by "latonas". I provided Afternic with screenshots to provide my ownership of the domains, and they took down the old listings, so that I could list them myself. However, a few days later, the domains were silently deleted from my Afternic account, and re-listed by latonas. I contacted Afternic again, provided ownership info again, Afternic took down his listings, and I re-listed the domains myself. A day later though, the domains were silently deleted from my account again, and re-listed by latonas. Somehow he is able to repeatedly get domains removed from my account, and Afternic support do not seem to think it is a problem.

I don't understand how latonas is managing to do this, as I am providing Afternic with photos of the domains in my account to prove my ownership, and I also use the same email address that is listed in WHOIS when contacting them. Since these domains are no longer in latonas registrar account, and WHOIS is not his, I am not sure why they keep letting him delete my domains over and over.

I have emailed Rick Latona about this, but he did not respond. Afternic customer support simply deletes the domains from his account when I contact them about it, only to let him delete them from my account in the following days. It seems the only way I can prevent latonas from offering these names for sale, is to contact Afternic every 2-3 days to get them to delete his listings (after he has gotten them deleted from my account).

I've been considering to buy the domains from latona at Afternic, as he would be unable to deliver the domains, and perhaps then they would take action against him. However, I have purchased domains from "big" domainers at Afternic several times before, who reneged/did not deliver the domains I bought (even though WHOIS reflected that they were the current owner) and not once did Afternic take action against them/suspend their accounts, even for repeat offenders, so I am not sure it would help much (I'd also have to tie up a lot of $$$$ in the escrow process, and getting a refund could take a while...).

If these names were listed solely on Afternic, I could simply resort to listing them elsewhere. But since these names also show up at GoDaddy and other registrars with a BIN, I feel like his listing of these names at Afternic significantly lowers my own chances of selling them.

Does anyone know how I can block latonas permanently from deleting names from my Afternic account, or anything else I can do to deal with this issue?

 

[Arca]

I’m also surprised that Afternic silently deletes domains from my account, without any kind of notification. With SEDO, at least they will send you an email when they remove domains from your account.

I manually looked up some of my higher value domains, and I noticed that an LLLL.com and a few other names had been removed from my account too. I don’t know how many domains have been removed from my account in total. But since I point my domains to Afternic landing pages, it could have cost me sales, as names pointing to removed domain listings resolve to 404 pages.

I emailed Afternic and asked them if they could provide me with a list of domains they have stealth deleted from my account. They ignored my request.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Interesting. And disturbing!

Drop everything and disable Fast Transfer option on your domains listed with Afternic pronto! Another NP member had a third party list and sell his domains! The domains were automatically transferred-out from his GoDaddy account. Afternic paid out to the third party and played dumb! There's a thread kicking around someplace here on NP with details.

 

[Arca]

Interesting. And disturbing!

Drop everything and disable Fast Transfer option on your domains listed with Afternic pronto! Another NP member had a third party list and sell his domains! The domains were automatically transferred-out from his GoDaddy account. Afternic paid out to the third party and played dumb! There's a thread kicking around someplace here on NP with details.

60% of my sales come from Afternic’s registrar network, and average sales price through their network is much higher than what I get through type-in sales. Abandoning their marketplace is not an option. The value added you get from listing at Afternic is simply unparalleled, and what you get from flippa, sedo, brandbucket, etc. just pales in comparison. Afternic's platform has extremely many bugs and problems, and their support is sometimes unwilling to help (they tend to not respond if you ask them something the don’t want to answer/help with), but because listing with Afternic puts your domains in the registrar path of a ton of registrars, leading to a ton of additional sales, it’s more than worth trying to work out and find solutions to all the problems they throw at you.

So rather than pulling my names from Afternic, I am trying to figure out how I can stop Rick Latona from pulling my names from Afternic.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

60% of my sales come from Afternic’s registrar network, and average sales price through their network is much higher than what I get through type-in sales. Abandoning their marketplace is not an option. The value added you get from listing at Afternic is simply unparalleled, and what you get from flippa, sedo, brandbucket, etc. just pales in comparison. Afternic's platform has extremely many bugs and problems, and their support is sometimes unwilling to help (they tend to not respond if you ask them something the don’t want to answer/help with), but because listing with Afternic puts your domains in the registrar path of a ton of registrars, leading to a ton of additional sales, it’s more than worth trying to work out and find solutions to all the problems they throw at you.

So rather than pulling my names from Afternic, I am trying to figure out how I can stop Rick Latona from pulling my names from Afternic.

Who said anything about pulling names from Afternic?
I simply suggested that you disable the automatic Fast Transfer, which is optional and makes it possible for domains to be transferred out from your GoDaddy account (for example) without your manual approval.

 

[Nerevar]

Maybe he has a list of names that he uses to check his Afternic listings and has forgotten to remove the sold names from there. I really do not think someone would do that on purpose.

 

[DNGear]

-

 

[Arca]

Who said anything about pulling names from Afternic?
I simply suggested that you disable the automatic Fast Transfer, which is optional and makes it possible for domains to be transferred out from your GoDaddy account (for example) without your manual approval.

Sorry, misread your suggestion. Having fast transfer enabled exposes your domains to “75 million monthly search queries” while not having them enabled exposes them to a smaller network of registrars, and “35 million monthly domain search queries” - according to their website. I am looking for maximum exposure in the registrar search path, so I am just looking for a way to prevent other people from deleting and listing my domains (if Afternic could at least notify us when they remove domains from our account, that would make it a lot easier to monitor).

Maybe he has a list of names that he uses to check his Afternic listings and has forgotten to remove the sold names from there. I really do not think someone would do that on purpose.

Yes, that's possible. However, when he deletes my name over and over and over again right after I list it myself, there is something strange going on. Almost none of the recently listed domains I checked in his profile belongs to him, and I was not able to establish any connection between the companies owning those domains, (such as China Capital, based in Hong Kong) and him, and most of those names are recently regged. So I assume his list of domains his highly outdated, maybe it's names he owned years ago, and now he has let a ton of those names expire/drop, and most of the recent listings do indeed not belong to him anymore, but to the people currently listed in WHOIS.

I assume he might have a “privileged” account at Afternic, that can list anything, and anything he lists immediately gets deleted from other accounts. And since big sellers don’t get banned when they don’t deliver domains at Afternic, he might not be worried about having names not belonging to him listed in his account.

 

[Arca]

-

The make offer price is the same as BIN price. So making an offer would amount to hitting BIN.

 

[hxp]

Wow. I'm surprised Afternic lets this continue...

Try to stay in touch with the same Afternic representative. Keep going to the same person with the same problem. When he/she starts to get frustrated, you might start to see some progress.

Also, if the guy has a # in his WHOIS, call him. Maybe he disregards your emails as junk?

 

[Arca]

Wow. I'm surprised Afternic lets this continue...

Try to stay in touch with the same Afternic representative. Keep going to the same person with the same problem. When he/she starts to get frustrated, you might start to see some progress.

Also, if the guy has a # in his WHOIS, call him. Maybe he disregards your emails as junk?

It's been the same Afternic customer support dealing with each email regarding this. However, he clearly did not read my comments the first time around, and only sent back a generic reply each time. But after I asked him whether he actually read the email content, he did read it and addressed the issue directly.

When I asked him to block latonas from being able to keep deleting these names from my account, the customer support said he would look out for latonas doing this again. And the 24h later, latonas deleted the domains from my account, once again...

Now waiting for Afternic to remove the domains from latonas account. And then he'll remove them from my account. And then I'll remove them from his account. Ad infinitum.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Sorry, misread your suggestion. Having fast transfer enabled exposes your domains to “75 million monthly search queries” while not having them enabled exposes them to a smaller network of registrars, and “35 million monthly domain search queries” - according to their website. I am looking for maximum exposure in the registrar search path, so I am just looking for a way to prevent other people from deleting and listing my domains (if Afternic could at least notify us when they remove domains from our account, that would make it a lot easier to monitor).

Unfortunate and counterproductive, to be sure. But it's the safe thing to do, an emergency measure while you're working on resolving this issue...

Yes, that's possible. However, when he deletes my name over and over and over again right after I list it myself, there is something strange going on...

Strange? No. Suspicious! And most likely fraudulent, aimed at selling other people's domains. At least this is what my assumption would be were these my domains, pending an explanation and resolution by Afternic. Hey, but that's only me. I justify my time spent here at NP by learning from other people's mistakes. Doesn't mean you have to do that, too

 

[hxp]

It's been the same Afternic customer support dealing with each email regarding this. However, he clearly did not read my comments the first time around, and only sent back a generic reply each time. But after I asked him whether he actually read the email content, he did read it and addressed the issue directly.

When I asked him to block latonas from being able to keep deleting these names from my account, the customer support said he would look out for latonas doing this again. And the 24h later, latonas deleted the domains from my account, once again...

Now waiting for Afternic to remove the domains from latonas account. And then he'll remove them from my account. And then I'll remove them from his account. Ad infinitum.

lol. That is so sad...

Hope everything works out for you.

 

[Arca]

Unfortunate and counterproductive, to be sure. But it's the safe thing to do, an emergency measure while you're working on resolving this issue...

Strange? No. Suspicious! And most likely fraudulent, aimed at selling other people's domains. At least this is what my assumption would be were these my domains, pending an explanation and resolution by Afternic. Hey, but that's only me. I justify my time spent here at NP by learning from other people's mistakes. Doesn't mean you have to do that, too

These names are not opted in (they are not with a fast-transfer registrar), so fortunately that's not going to be a problem.

 

[stewmath]

I cant see what latonas thinks this is going to achieve, even if he sells the domain he cant deliver it so wont get paid anyway. So there is no advantage for him doing this. Hes just wasting his time

 

[Arca]

I cant see what latonas thinks this is going to achieve, even if he sells the domain he cant deliver it so wont get paid anyway. So there is no advantage for him doing this. Hes just wasting his time

As was pointed out by @Nerevar, he might simply have a list of names, that he is re-uploading daily (perhaps automatically, as the amount of names he adds would be difficult to add manually), so he might not have to spend much time on it. I highly doubt he is manually verifying his ownership over and over for the domains he deletes from other users account.

 

[stewmath]

If i upload a name to afternic that i bought off someone else then it just says the domain is already in afternic and wont let me upload it. I literally have to contact afternic to get it added to my account

 

[Arca]

If i upload a name to afternic that i bought off someone else then it just says the domain is already in afternic and wont let me upload it. I literally have to contact afternic to get it added to my account

That's what I've been doing. I contact them and manually verify my ownership, they delete the name from latonas account, and I list it in my account. Shortly afterwards, the domain has quietly been removed from my account, and has been listed by latonas again. I contact Afternic to ask how that happened (no reply), verify my ownership once again, and they delete the name from his account, and I list it myself. A day or two goes by, and the name has been stealth deleted from my account by latonas, and his listing is back up. I contact them and manually remove the domain, they pull it from his account, I list it, it gets deleted, latonas has re-listed it again, etc. etc. This cycle is happening over and over again. I have no idea how he gets them to do it, when the domains are clearly is not owned by him anymore, so there is no way for him to manually prove his ownership and get them deleted from my account. I have sent them screenshots of the domains in my account, sent them emails from the same email that is listed in WHOIS, and receipts from my purchase of the domains to prove that I am the real owner, yet nothing seems to be good enough to keep these domains permanently in my account, rather than latonas.

 

[Justin Matmor]

then buy the domain and see what happens.

 

[Cdomains]

Interesting. And disturbing!

Drop everything and disable Fast Transfer option on your domains listed with Afternic pronto! Another NP member had a third party list and sell his domains! The domains were automatically transferred-out from his GoDaddy account. Afternic paid out to the third party and played dumb! There's a thread kicking around someplace here on NP with details.

I remember reading that thread!

What a nightmare!

 

[Cdomains]

I simply suggested that you disable the automatic Fast Transfer

Fast transfer is required if you want your names to appear with all their network partners.

 

[Cdomains]

As was pointed out by @Nerevar, he might simply have a list of names, that he is re-uploading daily (perhaps automatically, as the amount of names he adds would be difficult to add manually), so he might not have to spend much time on it. I highly doubt he is manually verifying his ownership over and over for the domains he deletes from other users account.

He is most likely using the spreadsheet way of adding names, and is using the same spreadsheet over and over again with your names still on it because he does not want to go through the trouble of going through the sheet and removing old names.

He probably just adds his new names to the end of the same spreadsheet and re-uploads that same sheet that also includes your names because he never cleans his list.

If this is what is happening, you are never going to resolve this problem as long as Afternic won't change their rules or do anything about it.

 

[Cdomains]

If i upload a name to afternic that i bought off someone else then it just says the domain is already in afternic and wont let me upload it. I literally have to contact afternic to get it added to my account

Yeah, it usually says pending review until it is added for real.

Many times the names are never added and stay in "pending review" forever.

 

[Cdomains]

I have no idea how he gets them to do it

I'll bet he has had an account there for a very, very long time and the support team knows him well, and just does what he asks without question, because they know him.

 

[Arca]

He is most likely using the spreadsheet way of adding names, and is using the same spreadsheet over and over again with your names still on it because he does not want to go through the trouble of going through the sheet and removing old names.

He probably just adds his new names to the end of the same spreadsheet and re-uploads that same sheet that also includes your names because he never cleans his list.

If this is what is happening, you are never going to resolve this problem as long as Afternic won't change their rules or do anything about it.

Yes, something like that is probably going on. A normal user wouldn't be able to do it in this way. If I try to add a domain that is listed by another user, I have to manually verify my ownership first. The system won't just delete the domain from their account automatically when I try to list it. But somehow latonas seems to be able to just upload his list, and wipe all names on his list out of other users accounts.

I scrolled through hundreds of names he has recently added, all regged in the last few days, and WHOIS does not belong to him. Rick Latona is listed in the WHOIS for 161 names, according to Whoisology, while his Afternic account has nearly 280,000 domains listed. From what various articles on domain blogs on Rick Latona say, he started dropping names heavily years ago. Maybe his spreadsheet is not being updated to reflect that. Regardless, it's strange that he is able to pull domains out of other domainers accounts, after new ownership of those domains have been manually verified.