How can I prevent another Afternic user from deleting and listing my domains for sale on Afternic?

[Arca]

I'm having some problems with Afternic user "latonas" (Rick Latona). Earlier this year, I purchased two domains from NameJet that were previously listed on Afternic by "latonas". I provided Afternic with screenshots to provide my ownership of the domains, and they took down the old listings, so that I could list them myself. However, a few days later, the domains were silently deleted from my Afternic account, and re-listed by latonas. I contacted Afternic again, provided ownership info again, Afternic took down his listings, and I re-listed the domains myself. A day later though, the domains were silently deleted from my account again, and re-listed by latonas. Somehow he is able to repeatedly get domains removed from my account, and Afternic support do not seem to think it is a problem.

I don't understand how latonas is managing to do this, as I am providing Afternic with photos of the domains in my account to prove my ownership, and I also use the same email address that is listed in WHOIS when contacting them. Since these domains are no longer in latonas registrar account, and WHOIS is not his, I am not sure why they keep letting him delete my domains over and over.

I have emailed Rick Latona about this, but he did not respond. Afternic customer support simply deletes the domains from his account when I contact them about it, only to let him delete them from my account in the following days. It seems the only way I can prevent latonas from offering these names for sale, is to contact Afternic every 2-3 days to get them to delete his listings (after he has gotten them deleted from my account).

I've been considering to buy the domains from latona at Afternic, as he would be unable to deliver the domains, and perhaps then they would take action against him. However, I have purchased domains from "big" domainers at Afternic several times before, who reneged/did not deliver the domains I bought (even though WHOIS reflected that they were the current owner) and not once did Afternic take action against them/suspend their accounts, even for repeat offenders, so I am not sure it would help much (I'd also have to tie up a lot of $$$$ in the escrow process, and getting a refund could take a while...).

If these names were listed solely on Afternic, I could simply resort to listing them elsewhere. But since these names also show up at GoDaddy and other registrars with a BIN, I feel like his listing of these names at Afternic significantly lowers my own chances of selling them.

Does anyone know how I can block latonas permanently from deleting names from my Afternic account, or anything else I can do to deal with this issue?

 

[Cdomains]

How about this for the ultimate scam?​

1 - Open an Afternic account.

You do not really own any domain names at all !!!

2 - Find names to target, that are listed by someone else with fast transfer enabled.

3 - List thousands of names you don't actually own, at really good prices, so they sell fast.

4 - Collect money from sales of these names you don't own.

5 - Close your account quickly, before you are caught.

6 - Start over again with a new account, and repeat.

Is this possible?

I think it could be possible with fast transfer enabled, and if Afternic does not check or verify ownership of names.

Yes, I know fast transfer must be opted-in at your registrar.

What would happen if a name was already opted-in previously?

Do they even keep track of this?

Would Afternic even care or do anything about it?

 

[Arca]

How about this for the ultimate scam?​

1 - Open an Afternic account.

You do not really own any domain names at all !!!

2 - Find names to target, that are listed by someone else with fast transfer enabled.

3 - List thousands of names you don't actually own, at really good prices, so they sell fast.

4 - Collect money from sales of these names you don't own.

5 - Close your account quickly, before you are caught.

6 - Start over again with a new account, and repeat.

Is this possible?

I think it could be possible with fast transfer enabled, and if Afternic does not check or verify ownership of names.

Yes, I know fast transfer must be opted-in at your registrar.

What would happen if a name was already opted-in previously?

Do they even keep track of this?

Would Afternic even care or do anything about it?

I doubt this would work. You can't just list names that are listed/opted in by others. For all regular users you have to provide ownership verification if names are already listed by someone. It’s impossible for a regular user to just list other users already listed domains en masse. I have never seen any other users being able to do what latona appears to be doing, and this is surely not something you can just open an account and do. If I tried to list one of your domains, the system would block me from doing it, and I would have to provide ownership proof.

But say you provide ownership verification in this situation (would have to be forged), when the domains are then deleted and re-listed by you, any prior opting in to fast transfer is voided. So even if I listed your domain in my account, there is no way I could get it opted in. You MUST to have access to WHOIS email to opt in again, which is not possible if the domain is not yours. So unless I re-listed it, and you yourself opted it in by email, there is no way I could get the name on the fast-transfer network.

Also, when a domain is moved from one registrar to another, fast-transfer opt-in is permanently voided for that name. The only way you could get it opted in again, is to have it deleted, and then relisted, and then opted in through WHOIS listed email. They monitor this 100%, if you opt-in a domain while it is with godaddy, and move it to another registrar, it will never ever become eligible for fast transfer there, and it will never sell as a fast-transfer domain on Afternic. You MUST delete it, and then re-list it with Afternic, and then opt-in through email, in order get it opted in to the fast-transfer. Joe explained this to me in detail by PM a few weeks ago.

 

[carob]

I doubt this would work. You can't just list names that are listed/opted in by others. For all regular users you have to provide ownership verification if names are already listed by someone. It’s impossible for a regular user to just list other users already listed domains en masse. I have never seen any other users being able to do what latona appears to be doing, and this is surely not something you can just open an account and do. If I tried to list one of your domains, the system would block me from doing it, and I would have to provide ownership proof.

But say you provide ownership verification in this situation (would have to be forged), when the domains are then deleted and re-listed by you, any prior opting in to fast transfer is voided. So even if I listed your domain in my account, there is no way I could get it opted in. You MUST to have access to WHOIS email to opt in again, which is not possible if the domain is not yours. So unless I re-listed it, and you yourself opted it in by email, there is no way I could get the name on the fast-transfer network.

Also, when a domain is moved from one registrar to another, fast-transfer opt-in is permanently voided for that name. The only way you could get it opted in again, is to have it deleted, and then relisted, and then opted in through WHOIS listed email. They monitor this 100%, if you opt-in a domain while it is with godaddy, and move it to another registrar, it will never ever become eligible for fast transfer there, and it will never sell as a fast-transfer domain on Afternic. You MUST delete it, and then re-list it with Afternic, and then opt-in through email, in order get it opted in to the fast-transfer. Joe explained this to me in detail by PM a few weeks ago.

No offense here, but if you are simply repeating what Godaddy say without testing it, we don't know this for a fact. Once enough bugs are present, you can't be sure of anything. Really @Joe Styler needs to explain this here publicly or link to where GD/Afternic state this.

And yes there is another thread on here where a domain was wrongly sold by Afternic
https://www.namepros.com/threads/godaddy-domain-stolen.986743/

 

[carob]

I have a lot of names there, and my fear is that someone else will sell one of my names and get paid for it, and I will never be notified or even know until it is too late.

All they have to do is get access to your account - there is no 2FA - then change the price of the domain and buy it for $20. A fast-transfer name will leave your account immediately, before you even know it. End of story.

Oh yes, in most cases your Afternic username is public to make it easy for hackers:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/afternic-username.930044/

 

[vast]

For info, Afternic keep reverting some of my domains to "In Review" status for no reason, and I only know that if I log in there to check on them. Until I then ask support to take them out of Review they are not listed for sale and will not sell at Afternic.

The same was constantly happening with one of my domains at Afternic - the support has fixed it a few times, but it was always reverting back to Review state. I've finally managed to resolve this myself by deleting and re-adding the troublesome domain at their platform - looks like some glitch.

 

[thedotsol]

I think Joe Styler could be of help in this case.

 

[Arca]

No offense here, but if you are simply repeating what Godaddy say without testing it, we don't know this for a fact. Once enough bugs are present, you can't be sure of anything. Really @Joe Styler needs to explain this here publicly or link to where GD/Afternic state this.

And yes there is another thread on here where a domain was wrongly sold by Afternic
https://www.namepros.com/threads/godaddy-domain-stolen.986743/

I have moved hundreds of opted-in fast transfer enabled domains between a number of different fast transfer enabled registrars, and sold a bunch of them after they were moved. Not once did fast transfer work later on, even though the name stayed in my Afternic account and under my ownership. In fact, I didn't know how their system worked in this respect, so I tried a lot of different things to get them to work with fast transfer again (except removing them fully from Afternic, and re-listing), but it was not possible. Afternic support were of no help in getting it solved, so I spent months having my fast-transfer enabled domains function like standard network listings instead. And eventually Joe Styler explained to me in detail how the system worked, and I got it worked out, and my experience with the system seem to fully match his explanation of how it works. I think moving hundreds of fast-transfer enabled names around in the past half year, and selling tens of them afterwards (with fast-transfer being not working 100% of the time) counts as "testing" and I am not simply repeating what they have stated. My experience with the system matches their explanation of how it works in this regards.

All they have to do is get access to your account - there is no 2FA - then change the price of the domain and buy it for $20. A fast-transfer name will leave your account immediately, before you even know it. End of story.

Oh yes, in most cases your Afternic username is public to make it easy for hackers:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/afternic-username.930044/

Why not just hide your username from public view under account settings? One click is all it takes to hide it, and that option has been available for as long as I have used the platform at least.

 

[Cdomains]

I have moved hundreds of opted-in fast transfer enabled domains between a number of different fast transfer enabled registrars, and sold a bunch of them after they were moved. Not once did fast transfer work later on, even though the name stayed in my Afternic account and under my ownership. In fact, I didn't know how their system worked in this respect, so I tried a lot of different things to get them to work with fast transfer again (except removing them fully from Afternic, and re-listing), but it was not possible. Afternic support were of no help in getting it solved, so I spent months having my fast-transfer enabled domains function like standard network listings instead. And eventually Joe Styler explained to me in detail how the system worked, and I got it worked out, and my experience with the system seem to fully match his explanation of how it works. I think moving hundreds of fast-transfer enabled names around in the past half year, and selling tens of them afterwards (with fast-transfer being not working 100% of the time) counts as "testing" and I am not simply repeating what they have stated. My experience with the system matches their explanation of how it works in this regards.

Please tell us what you have learned about how the system works.

We all have problems with Afternic and would like solutions to these problems.

Thanks

 

[Cdomains]

All they have to do is get access to your account - there is no 2FA

Great point.

GD has 2 factor.

Both companies are owned by the same entity.

Wonder why 2 factor is not available at Afternic?

I guess they don't care about security.

 

[Arca]

Please tell us what you have learned about how the system works.

We all have problems with Afternic and would like solutions to these problems.

Thanks

I previously shared it in my reply to your post above:
When a domain is moved from one registrar to another, fast-transfer opt-in is permanently voided for that name. The only way you can get it opted in again, is to have it deleted, and then relisted, and then opted in through WHOIS listed email. They monitor this 100%, if you opt-in a domain while it is with godaddy, and move it to another registrar, it will never ever become eligible for fast transfer there, and it will never sell as a fast-transfer domain on Afternic. You MUST delete it, and then re-list it with Afternic, and then opt-in through email, in order get it opted in to fast-transfer.

To elaborate further: when a domain name is moved from one registrar to another, any prior opting-in to the premium network is permanently invalidated, and it will never sell as a fast-transfer enabled domain with the new registrar. I move auction purchased domains to namesilo, who is also a fast-transfer partner of Afternic. Even though I have opted those names in to namesilo prior to moving them, fast transfer will never work there. After the name has been moved to namesilo, I then have to manually delete it from my Afternic account, the list it again, to let Afternic know that I am requesting it to be fast-transfer enabled with namesilo, and then opt-in via WHOIS email. Otherwise fast-transfer just won't work. It does not matter that I already opted the name in with say GoDaddy before moving it to namesilo. This is what Joe explained to me, and it matches my experience 100%. I had to manually delete, then re-add and price, then opt-in hundreds of names I have moved over to namesilo. Previously I thought opting in once was enough. That is not the case. You move registrar, you permanently void fast-transfer as an option (until you delete, re-add and re-opt in with the new registrar). If you need further clarification, please reach out to Joe, as he would be able to tell you the most accurately how their system works.

 

[carob]

To elaborate further: when a domain name is moved from one registrar to another, any prior opting-in to the premium network is permanently invalidated, and it will never sell as a fast-transfer enabled domain with the new registrar. I move auction purchased domains to namesilo, who is also a fast-transfer partner of Afternic. Even though I have opted those names in to namesilo prior to moving them, fast transfer will never work there..

I can't say how this works in general, but I can't see any obvious way to tell Afternic what registrar a domain is at, or to update that. Or did I miss something there?

Afternic problems and suggestions can be added to a new Afternic global thread here:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/problems-bugs-and-fixes-at-afternic-report-problems-here.1006373

 

[Arca]

Update: Afternic support is unable to fix this issue. After waiting several days for them to remove these domains from Rick Latona’s account once again, and after I have now provided them with triple ownership proof (screenshots of the domain in my account, sending them an email from WHOIS listed email, along with copies invoices of my purchase of these domains from NameJet), I was told by Afternic support that they “will attempt to ensure this does not happen again.”

LESS than 24 hours after getting this assurance from Afternic, the domains are already back in Rick Latona’s account, being offered for sale through Afternic, even though he possibly cannot have provided more exhaustive ownership proof than I have.

Now the wait for Afternic support to remove them from his account begins again.

 

[Cdomains]

Update: Afternic support is unable to fix this issue. After waiting several days for them to remove these domains from Rick Latona’s account once again, and after I have now provided them with triple ownership proof (screenshots of the domain in my account, sending them an email from WHOIS listed email, along with copies invoices of my purchase of these domains from NameJet), I was told by Afternic support that they “will attempt to ensure this does not happen again.”

LESS than 24 hours after getting this assurance from Afternic, the domains are already back in Rick Latona’s account, being offered for sale through Afternic, even though he possibly cannot have provided more exhaustive ownership proof than I have.

Now the wait for Afternic support to remove them from his account begins again.

This is enough to make me switch back to Sedo's MLS instead.

I find it unbelievable that a large co like GD / Afternic can't get its $hit together and fix this problem.

 

[Arca]

Update: Afternic customer support have finally started taking this more seriously. They have clarified that Rick Latona is indeed uploading a spreadsheet of names, and that when he uploads his spreadsheet, it deletes the names out of my account (even though I have verified my ownership), and lists them for sale in his (he doesn't have to provide ownership proof). It appears that he is some kind of superuser, who can delete other users domains simply by listing them himself, even after they have been verified. That is how he has been able to delete my domains 5-6 times right out of my account, even though I have provided three forms of ownership proof for these domains multiple times. I recommend anyone who has names listed with Afternic to go and check whether all your names are actually in your account. Some might have silently deleted without your knowledge by a user like "latonas".

Afternic customer support are now going to try to get his Afternic portfolio manager to get him to delete these names from his spreadsheet. They do not have the authority to simply remove them from his account permanently or block him from listing them. Customer support have just now removed these domains from his account once again, and I have added them myself, but they said it is likely they will get deleted from my account and listed for sale by him again before they actually get him to remove my domains from his spreadsheet.

 

[Haris]

looks like Afternic is owned by Rick Latonas.

 

[Cdomains]

He is most likely using the spreadsheet way of adding names, and is using the same spreadsheet over and over again with your names still on it because he does not want to go through the trouble of going through the sheet and removing old names.

Just like I said

Rick Latona is indeed uploading a spreadsheet of names, and that when he uploads his spreadsheet, it deletes the names out of my account

------------------------------

I'll bet he has had an account there for a very, very long time and the support team knows him well, and just does what he asks without question, because they know him.

Just like I said

It appears that he is some kind of superuser, who can delete other users domains simply by listing them himself

 

[Arca]

I'll bet he has had an account there for a very, very long time and the support team knows him well, and just does what he asks without question, because they know him.

He actually just opened his Afternic account in October 2013.

And he doesn't have to ask customer support. It's they who have to ask him!

 

[Cdomains]

He actually just opened his Afternic account in October 2013.

And he doesn't have to ask customer support. It's they who have to ask him!

He must give them a huge amount of business to receive VIP treatment like that!

 

[Rainmaker-NL]

1. See what country he resides in
2. Purchase the domain from him
3. He doesnt deliver
4. File criminal charges of internet fraud against him
5. Before you do all this, inform Afternic that this is going to happen to their client if they dont solve their problem, and that you will file charges against them too since they seem to be his partner in crime by willingly letting him put domains for sale that arent his....

 

[Haris]

1. See what country he resides in
2. Purchase the domain from him
3. He doesnt deliver
4. File criminal charges of internet fraud against him
5. Before you do all this, inform Afternic that this is going to happen to their client if they dont solve their problem, and that you will file charges against them too since they seem to be his partner in crime by willingly letting him put domains for sale that arent his....

I would do that if I was facing this issue.

 

[Rainmaker-NL]

He went to Harvard so he will probably understand the message if you bring it to him nicely.

 

[carob]

Afternic customer support are now going to try to get his Afternic portfolio manager to get him to delete these names from his spreadsheet. They do not have the authority to simply remove them from his account permanently or block him from listing them. Customer support have just now removed these domains from his account once again, and I have added them myself, but they said it is likely they will get deleted from my account and listed for sale by him again before they actually get him to remove my domains from his spreadsheet.

There is a much simpler solution, especially since from what you say his account lists vast numbers of domains and he actually owns very few:

Delete Rick Latona's account.

Let him start again from scratch like any other ordinary user, several problems solved.

 

[wwwweb]

Afternic is long overdue for an overhaul, godaddy is churning some good revenue thru this division, and it can churn even faster if they can link buyers with the right sellers. I mean what if a buyer takes a bin on a domain in the wrong account, Afternic has some good brokers who are proactive, let's hope they can reach out, and link the right account. Or the other party might try to buy the domain from out under you at a wholesale price.

 

[Arca]

There is a much simpler solution, especially since from what you say his account lists vast numbers of domains and he actually owns very few:

Delete Rick Latona's account.

Let him start again from scratch like any other ordinary user, several problems solved.

While I agree that he is not showing the kind of responsibility he should with his "superuser" account, and clearly not monitoring which names he actually owns these days, I don't think they will revoke any of his privileges. Sellers like him have a lot of leniency, and it's unlikely they are going to do anything. In fact, the solution is that he is going to be asked to remove the domains from his spreadsheet. In other words, customer support don't even have the authority to prevent him from listing whatever names he want, even if it has already been established through ownership verification measures that those names are not his. So customer support is at his mercy, and not the other way around, which is how it should be.

Previously I have bought domains from big sellers on Afternic who eventually decided to not let the name go, even after they confirmed with Afternic that they owned the name (WHOIS showed the same) and I had sent in the funds. One seller even did this multiple times. I asked Afternic repeatedly to suspend their accounts, but they refused to take any action. Some sellers seem to be pretty much untouchable.

 

[Cdomains]

Some sellers seem to be pretty much untouchable

Money talks !!

As always.