discuss Help me not lose 2 domains .ca that i invest 1000 $

[Armageddon]

Recived a verofocation from CIRCA for 4 domain names .CA , but only two of them are important for me because i invest in them aprox 1000 USD

CIRCA verification is neccessary to meet the criteria for registration of .CA


I need some one from Canada who have trust in me & viceversa to make a legal partnership that is recognize by Government of Canada

Legal partnership is neccessary to prove i am the right to own .CA & is not mandatory to be for undetermined period of time , i think is possible only to pass this issue , some one who knows the rules

very well .


From customer support recived this link's as guide

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/h_wr00002.html


But because my english is poor in technical terms is very hard to me to understand what say on this pages


So who want to help me please send me a PM (special if you are a old member & have good reputation)


Kind regards,

Ovidiu


P.S. I speak with some people & say CIRCA make very very rare this type of verification & i guess some want to hurt me & want this two domains ( maybe a domainer ) that are important and make the compliant

say again i invest aprox 1000 USD & possible to be sell to a end buyer over 10000 USD ( even each )

 

[wwwweb]

The guy is violating the rules of the .ca, these domains are designated for Canadian citizens, and businesses, or businesses that have a presence within that region, and should stay within that purview.

.ca is a tough market to sell into, some of the best single word names can be hard to sell, as I’m sure you found out.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While not insensitive to the plight of the OP, the Canadian presence rules are clearly outlined and I support CIRA and the rules. Therefore I would not consider becoming involved in this.

I am not sure, but I suspect that even if someone did what he asks, it would not help. In order to legally register a .ca you need to meet the presence requirements at the time of registration. Making a legal partnership formed and registered after the fact, while allowing future registrations, might not meet the requirement to prove that the original registration is allowed (not sure).

Also, the OP seems not to have read the requirements even now. 67% of the partnership must be Canadian residents, so one person forming a partnership with him does not help. It must be a registered partnership, so would go through the delay, search cost, filing cost and legal costs associated with that.

Bob

 

[MapleDots]

@wwwweb
They allready lock from start that is another problem , another abusive thing made by CIRA - not recived a notice or something like that - they are lock it from start ...is like to be arrested without warranty or motiv

Not at all, I'm sorry about your loss but it is you that broke the rules.

To register a .ca you have to tick the checkbox that EXPLICITLY tells you the rules. It is all there in writing and CIRA is simply following those rules.

You cannot go to a different country, rent a car and then say you did not know the rules. You have to abide by the rules of every country.

In this case CIRA will be carefully watching and trust me when I say they know all the tricks by now. You need legitimate documentation to get out of this situation and if that is not provided the domains will simply get released back into the system.

Calling CIRA by any other name but what it is definitely unjust, they are simply providing a service meant for Canadians and Canadian companies.

The shoe here is on the other foot, it is you that is taking away 4 domains from legitimate Canadian businesses or private individuals. It is you that has absolutely no right to these domains and no right to cry about it.

I am sorry for your loss but those are the facts.

 

[MapleDots]

I do not have any knowledge of the .ca extension and its policies, but @MapleDots come to my mind with that extension and may be he could add some further value to this thread.

The domains have already been locked by cira and they are asking for proof of Canadian Citizenship or a partnership with a Canadian citizen.

I have already explained to the OP that the proof they are looking for will be very thorough. Short of filing misleading documents there is no real way to help the OP, the domains cannot be transferred or manipulated in any way until cira finishes their investigation.

 

[MapleDots]

If you look at all the North American domainers snapping up .cn (Chinese) domains during the gold rush...the protectionism doesn't make sense. With a population of only 33 million, you do a disservice to the regional market by shutting out foreign buyers.

It is done quite on purpose to assure the public knows that a .ca means you are doing business in Canada. If everyone could buy them it would defeat the purpose of a regional extension. In other words, just buy a com.

 

[MapleDots]

he letters CA are not really ubiquitous with anything other than a short form for Canada. It's not like .TV or .Ai or something, which are actual terms for something.

Before CIRA clamped down I saw a lot of people in California sign up for a .ca.
Technically their 40 million population trumps Canada's 37 million

So if Cira did open it up California alone would probably snap up quite a few.

Personally I think a countries ccTLD should be restricted to businesses and individuals within their country. Any open ccTLD is technically no longer a ccTLD and it should be given a different designation.

 

[Ategy]

Sorry .. looking at the posts here it looks like it's a very complicated situation. As most of you who follow my daily blog/lists at NameCult know, my life is a chaotic mess these days. I don't really have the ability to commit to looking into the legalities of this. Plus at this point it seems like it's too late.

I know I had a couple of .ca over the years, but I bought them more for person reasons or potential projects that I never did anything with (honestly not even sure if I have any now or not .. lol.

They must have been extremely good domains to say they are worth 10,000 ... I stay away from ccTLD's in general aside from the ones that were repurposed (.tv .co).

Why? I see people from other countries, including Canadians, having premium names of my country even though it is not allowed and they dont live there. I believe no limit and it should be open game. Tell me believe, dont you have a domain with an extension that you are not supposed to have? That is why they have the companies that sign instead of the registrant.

For many countries, they choose to be more open to make money. In theory I can understand all countries wanting to protect access to their digital branding. It's not good for domainers, but it is usually good for the general interest of the citizens (also help reduce international phishing, spam, fraud, etc).

It sucks that it happened, but it's most definitely a risk.

Good luck all the same!

Please let us know what happens.

 

[MapleDots]

the legal term of what you are asking
for is fraudulent conveyance.

Given Maples investment in the space, it would put a huge target on his back by doing so, a big reason why most people here really can’t help you. I suggest you find a lawyer in the region, who might be able to setup an agreement for you. There is no real quick fix for this.

Thank you so much for that @wwwweb

I have been trying to tell that to @Backorder-ing.com
He has asked me to provide passport and other legal documents. I basically told him I own over a thousand domains and I cannot put my business into jeopardy.

Now what @Backorder-ing.com does not know is that like a lot of domainers I am actually a CIRA member. I would help him if I could but I already mentioned to him that it is similar to fraud.

I genuinely do not know how to help him without committing perjury. If I could think of a way around it I would but in this case I think he should contact cira and throw himself at their mercy and ask if he can transfer the domain to a canadian. Being up front is sometimes the best policy and might just work. Now if he gets the OK for that I will gladly accept his domains into my account and hold them for him. I will even pay his renewal charges and he can pay me back when he sells them. That is the extend of what I can offer.

With that, I wish him lots of luck.

PS. As far as risk goes, @Backorder-ing.com there is none, I am a man of my word and if I say the domains will remain yours you can take that to the bank. I have bought tens of thousands of dollars in domains from namepros members with verbal handshakes.

 

[Armageddon]

COME ON GUY'S YOU ARE SMARTER THAN ME AND MORE YEARS IN DOMAINING COMPARE TO ME
Let me tell a STORY to you @briguy & other

In April i sold HoReCa.tv with 8550 USD - What is HoReCa ?
is an abbreviation for the food service industry. The term is a syllabic abbreviation of the words Hotel/Restaurant/Café or Catering ( sometime used in Germany , Asia or USA )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horeca

Let's say some one have HoReCa.xyz - i was watch on this domain - make a offer of 250 $ ( at this point not sold HoReCa.tv ) . After sale of my domain , say to post my sale on NP , was knew that the owner of HoReCa.xyz is a NP member & will ask a much high price arround 4k ( not blame our honorable member because ask more ) etc...

HoRe.Ca is a very good hack domain for 'HoReCa' as HoReCa.ca is a very good one - IMO end buyer 10k / each

Imagine that i own over 50 % ( see my signature ) from all HoReCa domain names: .co ,.cc .pro etc..& imagine why not to make a complain to make some one good money
I like this one HotelRestaurantCatering.com

I find a niche that can bring money - something wrong ?

Go get the domains when will drop & make other money , CIRA not protect canadian business , some one will make a lot of money over my work

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Have I missed something, or has there been any evidence at all for the frequent claims by OP that someone reported the name(s) to CIRA, or is that just a suggestion by OP? I know that he has had disputes with other NP members, and understand why he thinks it might happen, but do we have any evidence that the domain was reported?

I know that in other categories (like restrictions on regional names, and I believe on unsavoury terms) the names sometimes get through registration, but are caught and reversed by CIRA and registrar often some considerable time later. This leads me to assume that CIRA procedures do regular checks.

In (if I have guessed it correctly) at least one of these names was put on major marketplace. I would not be surprised if such .ca are periodically checked by CIRA (just speculation on my part). In this case the public whois for the name shows a mixed message (Canadian phone code matched to US email address and mailing address in admin contact), etc.

I would not be surprised if this triggers a further look. If you Google search on the full name given as the registrant, to see evidence of Canadian activity, the first Google result is a thread started by the OP with his name as exactly registrant on the .ca and the word SCAMM in title (it is a long and confusing thread). I know the thread was started to defend re another name (and NP probe found no evidence of fraud), but just pointing out what anyone, including CIRA would find by simply Googling the registrant full name.

This is a lesson to all to be careful with what you post as it will live long after interest in the thread wanes.

Many Canadian domain investors feel that .ca should be open, while many others feel that it should be restricted to Canadian presence. That is not the point. The rules as they existed are what matters, not whether any one person agrees with the rules.

But my real point. i think it is far more likely this came up because it was listed on domain marketplace and standard CIRA checks seemed to point to a lot of questions so they locked it and asked for proof of what the registrant checked when the name was placed at the registrar.

Bob

 

[Ategy]

If you look at all the North American domainers snapping up .cn (Chinese) domains during the gold rush...the protectionism doesn't make sense. With a population of only 33 million, you do a disservice to the regional market by shutting out foreign buyers.

Well said.

Foreign businesses who have legal operations in Canada are more than welcome to .ca domains as far as I know.

The issue is foreigners who have no intention of building a business, and while not the case with legitimate "domainers", for the most part the concern is fraud, spam, phishing and preventing ligitimate Canadians and Canadian businesses from obtaining the best and most relevant names possible for their business.

Yes I know I've actually made the case against domainers in general .. lol .. but those are the rules and why they are in place. That's why it's better to stay within your country's ccTLD, to invest in ccTLD's that are known to want foreign "DOMAIN REVENUE ONLY" investment, or generic TLD's ngTLD's or .com, .net, .org, .etc ...

The difference with Canada and a few select other nations, is that any potential external domain revenue is completely irrelevant to our economy. If anything, one could argue that the lack of availability of domains due to foreign domainers actually would hurt our economy more then the minor revenue of a few hundred thousand domains.

That's the big difference with Canada and countries like Montenegro, Tuvalu, BIOT (.io), Anguilla, Columbia, etc .. for those countries, the actual domain registration income is significant to them (with regards to the size of their economy) .. and as such they welcome the revenue as a means to enrich their people. Where as the potential foreign revenue for Canada would represent about 1/1,000,000th of our economy. I think it's cool some countries can take advantage of domains to help enrich their people ... but at the end of the day I understand why each country would want to maintain sovereignty over their domain space .. particularly those like Canada where our digital economy is a huge and vital part of our economy.

The other factor is that for many of these other countries, their official language is not English ... whereas domainers still tend to buy English domains .. so in reality, they aren't taking anything away from local businesses.

Even when it comes to domaining with .ca domains, at least (in theory) by only allowing Canadian domainers to buy .ca domains, the domaining revenue stays in Canada and the profits taxed by the Canadian Government.


All that said .. it really sucks @Backorder-ing.com stands to lose $1000! More than the domains, I really hope he find a way to at least get his money back.

 

[wwwweb]

@wwwweb 'otherwise they are going to lock it down until it expires.' ?
You refer as a advice for other's in future or refer for my problem?

They allready lock from start that is another problem , another abusive thing made by CIRA - not recived a notice or something like that - they are lock it from start ...is like to be arrested without warranty or motiv

They locked the domain down, to protect it from being moved. They are trying to verify your data, based on the their registration requirements which you agreed to when you took the domain into your account.

Kind of like going thru customs, and being asked for your passport, if you don’t have one you are going to be detained until you can provide proof of who you are. They have detained your domain, and asked you for verification based on their guidelines, you yourself know you can’t provide this information to their satisfaction, hence the reason for this thread.

This is not about profit for .ca, if they wanted to make more money they would let thousands of single words they hold for grandfathered accounts, and city regions go up for auction, but that is not their mandate.

Their mandate is not for profit, but to build a national online identity for people, and businesses that operate within their extension. They are protecting their extension, which is their right. Clearly others who own .ca, and should not, should take notice. They have been verifying for a long time, and it has always been a risk to register one without a legal office within that region.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

If one of my kids had made this mistake I would probably tell them something like:

1. Sometimes you really should read the small print.
2. Rules and regulations are there for a reason. Even if you decide the are not.
3. You have 2 citizenships NOT ALL citizenships.
4. The Canadian Citizens line at Canadian airports is for... Canadian Citizens. Just like for EU.
5. Gambling on not getting caught and then getting caught. Well what's to complain about?

Konsekvenstänk... Thinking about the consequences of one's actions. Try some of that.

One of my sons stole some sweets at the local shop. He was 14 and got caught. The police and social services were called in. It's easy to lose control and sometimes it teaches a hard lesson.

They weren't trying to punish him. They were trying to protect him.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

The guy is violating the rules of the .ca, these domains are designated for Canadian citizens, and businesses, or businesses that have a presence within that region, and should stay within that purview.

.ca is a tough market to sell into, some of the best single word names can be hard to sell, as I’m sure you found out.

Why? I see people from other countries, including Canadians, having premium names of my country even though it is not allowed and they dont live there. I believe no limit and it should be open game. Tell me believe, dont you have a domain with an extension that you are not supposed to have? That is why they have the companies that sign instead of the registrant.

 

[Nikhil Jain]

I do not have any knowledge of the .ca extension and its policies, but @MapleDots come to my mind with that extension and may be he could add some further value to this thread.

 

[Ategy]

You would be surprised to learn that many domainers and companies are actually translating the domains and registering them. I have seen this in country extensions and as well as even .com.

There definitely might be some who register names in native languages, but I'm pretty sure that's the minority .. particularly with the smaller economies where there would be very little demand/value in the native language domains (unlike Germany's ,de for example)

So the game is a lot unfair and bigger than how .CA is doing things. Even if we take your argument that most of those countries dont speak English and thus no one is taking their names, dont we deserve to have English domains with our country extension? Or are we just confined to our local language only? See how it is all linked?

It has nothing to do with who deserves what .. it has to do with what your country CHOOSES to do with their sovereign TLD. What I was simply saying is that the impact of foreigners acquiring domains (mostly English) does not have the same impact on the local economy of smaller and non-English economies as English-speaking larger economies .. and because of that, I could understand why some countries CHOOSE to not have the same restrictive rules or to not enforce their rules. At the end of the day it is fair for all countries because they are all EQUALLY allowed to CHOOSE what they want to do with their own ccTLDs.

The OP is clearly suspecting that someone is actually after his domains and I asked you earlier, what happens if the OP fails to show justifiable and convincing reason of why he should retain the ownership of the two domains? Are they locked forever? Do they drop get auctioned?

That is a very different matter .. I was discussing the rules and WHY they were there. I still think it sucks for @Backorder-ing.com in terms of what happened to him. Even if I'm a Canadian, I don't invest in nor follow .ca domains, so I didn't even know there was any serious checking or enforcement.

Again though .. unfortunately that's a risk when you don't play by the rules. I know with the couple .ca's I acquired for personal reasons via GoDaddy that the registration process was not the same thing as .com. I indeed had to click or enter something to indicate that I am Canadian.

Where I think @Backorder-ing.com might have some sort of claim, is against the aftermarket seller of the domains (the person who sold the domains to him), who possibly in theory was required to check if @Backorder-ing.com was Canadian before selling it to him ... or the @Backorder-ing.com's registrar who should have made sure @Backorder-ing.com was notified of, and met the Canadian requirements before allowing the transfer of ownership.


Again .. despite the fact @Backorder-ing.com did not play by the rules, and actually broke Canadian laws ... I still feel bad for him. If there were a simple solution I'd even gladly help a fellow domainer, but @Backorder-ing.com wants to open partnership agreements and paperwork, plus based on what others have said, it looks like it's too late anyways!

I sincerely wish him luck .. but he took a risk by breaking the rules .. that was his choice .. and unfortunately he got caught breaking the rules .. so I'm not sure what more can be done for him at tihs point?

 

[wwwweb]

Understand your point @Ategy.com but in this case not apply. Why? Because if not you , other have .ca domains & they are not canadian citizen or business/partnership in Canada . This is the case about some one hurt me by make a complain to make him more money . You if you will lose 1000 $ or more what do? Smile?!

About my english , admint, not perfect .
Have a nice day @Ategy.com

PS & about .US you or other mention about rules of reg. .US , yeh Nexus/Neustar possible to send compliance to registrant , personal recived & solved ( it's enough to send them a bill that prove you have business/sold a domain with a citizen from USA ) , but they not block your domain names (think no other entity that manage ccTLD from other country's ) that mean they respect your property .
CIRA don't respect this (your property) so why i say basic you are not the owner of .CA
CIRA have more ' horns' then other

You clicked a waiver when you registered your .ca domain, CIRA is one of the more proactive enforcement Registries in protecting their extension. Sure they could make a lot more money opening it up to residents of California or such, but if you know anything about their board they are technology, and business people, they choose to keep it localized, rather than global to protect the brand identity of their Country.

.ca extension you can finding 3L.ca to hand reg, it’s a tough sell, you need to understand this marketplace, Just because you own a single word .ca, doesn’t mean it will yield tens of thousands. One prominent domainer took a beating trying to game the .ca market, only to drop a majority of their portfolio.

If you own any kind of business, I would suggest you find an incorporation lawyer, and setup some kind of localized office within that region out of their office, that may help you retain the name to offload it, otherwise they are going to lock it down until it expires.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

If he bought them here for 1k and they were pushed to his account, there would be no box to check.
I would not sell a .ca to a non canadian and would surely disclose the rules.
Sounds like member here didnt fulfill their duties by disclosing the requirements.

Hard to make sense with unknowledgeable comments and your poor grammar.
Sorry looks like someone hosed you

You pm me’d me and say one was hand reg and one wS aftermarket. I will look again at previous posts but i thought you said you bought them here.

 

[MapleDots]

Personally I think all ccTLD's should be run in a similar fashion. What good is ccTLD when people from other countries can register them. I think CIRA is doing it right, they are holding true to what ccTLD's were meant to be. A ccTLD should instill confidence that you are doing commerce in the country of origin.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Looking at whois date, on the .ca you reg in april for 3 years, you clicked the link at dynadot stating you met the requirements.
https://whois.domaintools.com/horeca.ca you have a romanian registrant and a canadian admin, is that a fake name with the real email you use?

The one you bought on aftermarket i dont know, i do know you've branded on .us domain and the whois for that shows romania, so i am completely lost, so is horeca at least from the canadian end
imo

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

both names are reg fee imo
I never criticized your english, i stated you have difficulty That can lead to you making a wrong decision or not understanding.
fake whois, conspiracy, deception
.ca whois is hidden by default
The 4L .ca was registered little over a year ago, so seller did quite good considering it doesn't fair well on radio test
I am out. You broke the rules, got caught. Maybe your seller snitched, probably random checkup due to wacky whois's

 

[branding]

I see what you say & with all respect for you @briguy , but you are wrong..nothing to do with adult market etc.. is a hack domain

It's horeca right? We have the same word for it, restaurants, Cafe's, that sort of stuff. It's a nice hack.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

It is done quite on purpose to assure the public knows that a .ca means you are doing business in Canada. If everyone could buy them it would defeat the purpose of a regional extension. In other words, just buy a com.

Same in Sweden. Difficult for me to buy Finnish and Norwegian extensions because the domain extensions are not covered by the Scandinavian Treaty Zone and Norway isn't in the EU.

 

[NickB]

Can't you push them to a register that can set up a proxy/trustee registration service?

You would have pay a higher annual fee, but there are companies that provide this service. This way the names are still owned by you

 

[Josytal]

@Ategy.com
@Bob Hawkes
@Violets

Just wondering if any of you can help this guy.
He is a nice and legit NP member.