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Headless.Domainer in a Topless.Bar

Labeled as new gtlds in gTLD Discussion, started by betthelot, Feb 20, 2016

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  1. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Now I got your attention. I'm going to burst some myths about the new gTLDs. Its been nearly 2 years since the launch and what have we learnt.

    The Registries (UniRegister, Rightside, Donuts, Tucows, Mind + Machines......)

    1. ALL of them over estimated demand.
    Remember, Mind+Machines saying in 2013, dot COM will be dead in 10 years. Their share price has halved since early 2014.
    Frank Shilling said dot COM is going to be like AM radio in 20 years. Does anyone still believe that. Said in DNJ after the first year that he had been over enthusiastic about demand.
    Donuts said renewals would be 80%, didnt happen, so they stopped giving out the data.
    Rightside, again stock price has halved since early 2014. This month they said, to calm investors, that they will be spending $2million dollars on marketing to make up for the lag in lower than expected registrations.
    Tucows Colin said they will get 1,000,000 registrations in first year. Was nearer 300,000. Great company, great marketing but way over estimated demand.
    And Verisign stock, the registry for good old .com has increased 50% since the launch of the new gTLDs!

    2. The Registries PROPAGANDA. (biased or misleading information)
    @DanielNegari gave away names to inflate registration numbers and now is selling them at a loss, for 40 cents at some registrars. Anyone can sell a $10 bill for $9. Of course hes looking to make money on the renewals. All ccc.xyz have been brought out. Who the hell is going to buy 6j3.xyz on the aftermarket. Only one person, a headless.domainer in a topless.bar.

    Frank Shilling the Evangelist of the new gTLDs.
    Smart guy but Im here for the domainer, so I will call him out.
    Remember the build up to the launching of the new gTLDs, he was going to make all of the dot link names available at the basic registration price. So you domainers can get an amazing name at reg fee. Didn't happen. The good names he either reserved or registered them himself, to be sold at a premium. 360˚about turn or just misleading?
    This is important Frank always says this
    Big brands placed their internet presence on .com as it meant commerce, smaller brands and companies followed them into .com
    Now we are going to see the same thing to the right of the dot , as big brands leads the way with smaller brands and other companies to follow leading to tens of thousands of new gTLDs.
    Its a certainty.

    Its Not Going To Happen. BMW will use .BMW and the much touted FOX NEWS will use NEWS.FOX. So what, it means nothing to us domainers. When the public see News.Fox, first they wont remember if its Fox.News or News.Fox and just go to FoxNews.com. They certainly are not going to be thinking this means there is a .online or a .link or a .xyz as I am from the next generation. Now the public see youtu.be or no_url_shorteners and just think its a clever hack but will still go to youtube.com and no_url_shorteners (Yes they had to changed their destination home page from the Lebanon ccTLD .ly to .com in 2011).
    This is domainers number 1 hurdle when it comes to selling these new gTLDs, other than to headless.domainers, convincing a business to go with Furniture.Shop when there is a competitor on FurnitureShop.com.
    number 2 hurdle is convincing them to put their online presence in the hands of an unknown, untrusted and unestablished TLD.
    number 3 hurdle is telling them not to worry about emails going to [email protected] rather than [email protected].
    BMW and FOX are fine they got the .com.
    These are the 3 reasons why there has been little or no aftermarket sales by domainers to End Users.

    3. Confusion - Imagine an enduser seeing .photography, .photo, .photos, .pics, .pictures, .camera .digital, or because he believes he is a genius goes for photography.guru or is it .ninja.
    Its overwhelming and confusing so hes sticks with .com because that's what he knows and trust.
    No no, lets say that he is that elusive enduser and likes the look of wedding.pics and you being the skilled salesman has got him over the 3 hurdles above. What is he going to offer, with so many options available $1000, why should he offer more. Then you hit him with the bombshell the renewals are $200 a year on this beauty.

    4. Fools Gold - As the Evangelists keep saying they look good, they look natural. Yes to us domainers they do but to the general public they look like a hack, a shortner, a tinyURL, they will automatically believe you have the .com. Its ingrained in the public psyche. They dont look at them and think great I dont need to type .com, they really dont care.
    This is going to be the hardest and I say an impossible task, is getting the general public to stop thinking only of .com or ccTLD and see and understand the new gTLDs, if you cant do that, businesses will shun the new gTLDs and keep using .coms. They only look good to us.

    No doubt there will be domainers that make money from these new gTLDs but most will lose money. I see on here awful names and the charge into .xyz or .top but outside NNN.xyz or Keyword.xyz or LLL.xyz there is virtual no chance of an enduser sale and you are relying on the headless.domainer in a topless.bar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
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  2. asset.domains

    asset.domains Established Member

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    the cctld .Ly is lebanon tld... thank you, there is no need to continue reading

    because of the ngtlds program start, multiple domainers entered the market it's because of that .com registrations increased (one of the causes).

    you continue to write about the memorization of the right part when every browser will predict your keyboard entry or from browsing history.

    technically it's like entering the +1 phone code when calling someone... when using old gtld with 2 or more kw, of course the premium 1kw are still here and it is good.
     
  3. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Ha Ha what a schmuck I am, meant to type Libya.
    You will see or hear the name for the first time and when you type in your browser you need to know the right of the dot otherwise predict will give you the .com and off you go to the competitor.
     
  4. asset.domains

    asset.domains Established Member

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    thank for the reply, when i use the internet i use the search tool, in the box, i don't have any problem with extensions and as a user the extension is not really a problem, i see businesses deal with no problem with ngtld, from different continents, users don't even notice the difference, but unbiased studies are needed, bit again it will ne out of context of everydaylife, they will focus on addresses and bias can appear, fortune 500 can continue to use old address because people are used to, but what about other businesses around the world ? they don't deserve a chance ?
     
  5. domainsoup

    domainsoup Established Member

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    Good read.

    The real question is if we see companies moving to .[their company name]

    login.facebook
    search.google
    etc

    If that doesn't happen and those simply redirect to the .com, then Frank is wrong.

    And regarding the "charge to .xyz" I think there is a big trust issue. People are associating .xyz with spam.

    Bank.com = Trust
    Bank.xyz = Phishing
     
  6. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes new businesses need a chance. Some may use the new gTLDs but most wont because of the 3 hurdles as stated above. Im looking at it from a domainer, little endusers, far too much choice, high renewals on premiums. Its a tough sell. The Evanglists will say, first they will be adopted by big companies, then seem normal but they under estimates the task of changing the public Physce, they hate confusion they hate change.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  7. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Good point about phishing. Could lose a lot of goodwill.
    My point is that Facebook Google can use .google because they have the .com BUT importantly it makes NO difference to domainers. It doesnt mean people will suddenly get the new gTLDs and want them, as the Registries want you to believe. Public will be none the wiser. Its all propaganda. I did this thread as I see so many getting blinded by the this coming of a new future, when you need to step back and look at it from a business point of view not a domainer. So much crap getting registered, so much money being lost on here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  8. garptrader

    garptrader Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    New TLDs do offer choice to low-budget domain buyers who were not going to pay $XXXX for a .COM domain anyway. However, I frequently see new TLD domainers pricing their domains mid $XXXX to even five figures. In ten years in this industry I have never had a sale even approaching five figures so these folks are dreaming. Why would the registrars be selling this $%^#@! for $1/registration if it was really worth five figures?
     
  9. domainsoup

    domainsoup Established Member

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    The problem with the GTLD's is that they have reduced .com value. .COM is still the best but More options = less likely to pay. I used to receive good offers on Sedo for .coms. Now it is all lowballers.
     
  10. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Bang on. Only those with a low budget. So much choice, its a fight to the bottom. Few end users and only those with little money and with a 1000 new gTLDs to choose from. Sounds like a domainers nightmare not the new second coming that they want you to believe
     
  11. Fancy.domains

    Fancy.domains Selling gTLDs like delicious hotcakes VIP Gold Account

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    Hello,

    No doubt .COM is king, but I heard that some pretty big company started using:

    www.abc.xyz

    ...and also other ones are using this strange extension (10 examples):

    www.starship.xyz
    www.reall.xyz
    www.voter.xyz
    www.assemblypoint.xyz
    www.sling.xyz
    www.carrion.xyz
    www.littlelexicon.xyz
    www.tempdrop.xyz
    www.flystay.xyz
    www.axisgroup.xyz


    ...then I happened to remember companies that changed their .COM etc in 2015 for (10 examples):

    www.home.barclays
    www.parisfashionweek.buzz
    www.toureiffel.paris
    www.sport.wales
    www.driftaway.coffee
    www.lily.camera
    www.foxwell.tools
    www.jacksonville.attorney
    www.festival.melbourne
    www.beach.london

    Obviously just a few examples...

    ...and, again, I have nothing against the king! He will be the king for a long time.

    Ps. I have sold more than 50 new gTLDs at the aftermarket. It's not that hard.
     
  12. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You prove my point. The two big ones above are home.barclays and abc.xyz.
    Home.Barclays didnt change their home page, for their PUBLIC facing website offering services, it is still Barclays.co.uk
    abc.xyz didnt change their PUBLIC facing home page - domainers put far too much weight on these, as if its proof there is a tidal shift and a new dawn because some big brands use them in some way. Makes no difference to the public knowledge or acceptance of General new gTLDs. Ofcourse having 13,000,000 registrations you will find some websites. But over 90% are not developed.

    Good to hear you have sold 50 new gTLDs, how many to domainers? What did you sell them for. Most Ive heard anyone sell. Even Mike Berkins sold none in first year and then a few this year to domainers and hes got a great portfolio. Notably Godaddy didnt want them when he sold his portfolio.
     
  13. garptrader

    garptrader Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There is a HUGE difference between having a few companies use an extension and seeing regular aftermarket sales of that extension on DNJournal. The .TV subforum has cited hundreds of examples of companies using .TV. I have even seen some advertised on television. Selling a .TV domain to an end user is a different story. And .TV has been around for more than fifteen years. It takes a long time for a new extension to gain mass appeal. And we still are not at a point where the masses are willing to pay big dollars for .COM domains.

    Undoubtedly with 12 million registrations and perhaps thousands of new TLD investors there will be a few rare cases where people are making money on new TLDs at a portfolio level. Kohasamui is no doubt a superstar seller and could probably sell ice to an eskimo. Most newbies should steer clear of having more than 10% of their portfolio in these extension (even then they should not buy all .XYZ or .LINK).
     
  14. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    And we should be only interested in domainers selling to endusers. Not the registry to endusers or to other domainers to domainers. Ultimately has to be underpinned by endusers, unless we are saying they are the new bitcoins (arguably for short .coms but not new gTLDs when you got unlimited supply of them)
     
  15. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is true of all TLDs launched since 2000. They have all overestimated demand, and failed by their own pessimistic projections.
    Why do they never learn ?

    I don't want to start a debate on the mental health of registry operators, but I have noticed that the domain industry has been settled by businessmen lately, who have little experience and understanding of domain names in general and market dynamics (.tel is an interesting example). But it's not like they are all going to lose their shirts you know, they simply run normal companies that are funded by investors. If it doesn't work, they will move on to other ventures.
    The investors are convinced they are investing in the future, and while some of the registries may be financially viable, they generally won't be successful, not like they expect.
    You see what I mean ? The CEOs are confident, they will get their paychecks no matter what.

    Consumer awareness also remains low.
    This is not going to change until brands start to massively advertise their URLs.

    The problem is that not everybody can have one's own extension.

    I know that Barclays and other big corporations have their own extensions, but it still doesn't mean I will want to buy a .whatever, just because some large companies are distancing themselves (not too much) from .com.
    It's not likely at all when you have grown up in a dotcom world, or when you live in a country that has a strong national extension (which is certainly the case for the UK, where Barclays is based).
    There is a huge difference between a private corpTLD like .barclays and vanity extensions open to the public like .xyz .top etc.

    Fools gold ? Yes.
     
  16. betthelot

    betthelot Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Very well said
     
  17. Michael R.

    Michael R. Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Interesting reading. Classical and good old extensions are far from being dead.
     
  18. brandnow

    brandnow Selling hotcakes VIP

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    Best thread I've read all week. Good job.
     
  19. Fancy.domains

    Fancy.domains Selling gTLDs like delicious hotcakes VIP Gold Account

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    I just list my names as landing pages and then add them to the most common market places. Then I sit and wait. So no superstar seller skills needed. ;)

    BUT, what I do, is that I, apart from following the trends, focus on snapping good (but cheap) names that drops. That is the only "secret" to my relative success so far.
     
  20. Manik

    Manik Top Contributor VIP

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    Gtlds are not like .coms. You should only register Keyword.Keyword if KeywordKeyword.com is taken (eg: if CreditCare.com is taken, then buy Credit.Care.)

    This also can be applied as a URL hack or a link shortener. If you follow these steps, your domain will never lose value.

    About that fools gold.. please give it time. I visit a famous domain hack website, "Dnpric.es" from time to time. Not once in my lifetime have I typed DNprices.com into the address bar.

    All we have to do is incept in the mind of public. It'll just take few years. Like .info or .biz.
     
  21. brindle123

    brindle123 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There are soo many new people in this business all propping each other up on hopes of making lots of money in the nGTLD's. Yes there is some money to be made but how many sales are to end users vs. selling to other domainers?

    So many pointless and confusing extensions only help to prevent the general public, end user, companies, and even domainers from using the new gtlds. In most cases everyone goes back to the dot com and just finds a brandible domain to use rather than paying high renewals or high initial purchase prices for the new gtlds.

    .xyz just looks bad!
    .top doesn't make any sense
    .club I can see some uses but unless you have the .com you will lose traffic and sales. Ex: wine.club wineclub.com

    I personally would spend the money and get the .com before .whatever if I was running a business. I wouldn't want to lose any business to the .com owner. I think it is just too hard for them to build a business around a new gtld without owning the .com also!

    I don't think they de-value the .com at all. I think they just make it stronger. Sales might only be hurt by so much money being thrown away in the new gtlds.

    wine.club cost $140k
    OnlineWineClub.com only cost $2k
    They both sound and look good, but a new company doesn't always have $140k to spend on just the domain name.

    Don't waste your money on 3 letter/4 letter and 3number/4number domains in every new extension that comes out. Grab one or two that really make sense to invest in. Be selective. Diversify a little but don't go nuts and waste your money.

    Sooo many bad domains are being reg'd that make no sense at all with some of these gtlds. Reading what you guys post about what you've reg'd when a new gtld comes out makes me cringe.
    Example: poop.cloud Just kidding on that but look at the .cloud thread or other new gltd threads and seriously look at some of these reg's or look at the "Appraisal" section. Some really bad shit.clouds

    There can only be so many .cloud companies that start up that don't have a dot com. They won't come running to you to buy your whateverjustbecauseitwasavailable.cloud domain for $xx or $xx,xxx. Get friggin real domainers!
     
  22. brindle123

    brindle123 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    More like decades. .info and .biz aren't being used by big companies. They are only being passed around in the aftermarket to be sold and resold by domainers. Some of them are just now getting some ROI.

    If you reg'd them when they came out, you would have spent plenty on renewal fees until now.
     
  23. Fancy.domains

    Fancy.domains Selling gTLDs like delicious hotcakes VIP Gold Account

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    Still:

    http://dnpric.es/?q=.xyz
    http://dnpric.es/?q=.top

    Not so bad?!

    But I agree with you that you need to think before you buy! Especially when a domain is more than $10, $20 or even $50!
     
  24. Manik

    Manik Top Contributor VIP

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    I see many .info and .biz being used by big companies. See, my point is .com is the best but ngtlds aren't that bad either.
     
  25. brandnow

    brandnow Selling hotcakes VIP

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    Do you mind giving a few examples? Not that I don't believe you. But I don't see many big companies using .info and .biz. I see *some* small companies using .biz. But I think what will happen is that gradually these small businesses will transition away from .biz and info other extensions.
     

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