.mobi Frank Schilling's take on .mobi

[ekal]

Respected domainer Frank Schilling gives his take on .mobi

http://frankschilling.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/03/mobi_cashgrab.html

I think this registry is just a sales organization. They are selling hope for a .com redux. If it's not there (and its not IMO), lots of speculators are going to give up and let renewals lapse and complain about domain names in general. That's bad for the industry. In my opinion these guys are pick and shovel salesmen, selling said picks and shovels in an area with no gold.

 

[mkylut]

Labrocca, I want to apologize to you in public because in my post earlier (#109), I stated that you are so unprofessional.

Yeah, I agree with you, today is the new day. I also want to apologize to all Npers because of my statement towards Labrocca.

Lets the new day begins

 

[mejcdj]

I feel the intense need to speak up here.. I have been maintaining composure for quite some time regarding labrocca, but I feel I have really had my fill of his back and forth bi-polar attitude towards .mobi and .mobi investors.

You remind me, sir, of a wife beater, in that they beat the hell out of her one night and then the next morning, they say, "oh, now you know I didn't mean EVERYTHING I said and did, Please forgive me and lets be civil again."

I have been to your blog, and I am insulted by 99% of the sludge you have posted there. I am insilted by the way you freely use the term 'mobi-cultist' and then hide behind the fact that you have not actually 'named names'.

You come in here daily and slam us left and right for the choices we make for ourselves, you wait and read every post regarding .mobi and if some one posts anything you don't agree with you start the flames. The again, after the war has calmed, you send your vague apologies , pat yourself on the back for being a 'good guy' for admiting when you are wrong and expect us all to just carry on as if you were the slightest bit interested in anything we care about. I do not care to see your hypocritacal posts or opinions any longer. You may soon become my very first ever (in 10 years online) ignored poster.

Now that I have said what I felt I had to say, I will let this be and not post on the subject again.

 

[labrocca]

Any WISE investor should know when to be bullish and when to be bearish. If everyone was into the bullishness then realistically no one should be selling. Sales occur because someone wants to take their profit now. They sell because the long-term outlook from the sellers view isn't worth holding out for. Now those that are bullish are normally the buyers, developers and the holders.

Yes..I do use some terms loosely like mobi-cult but it's very half hearted attempt at some humor. And as I said..only reader can place themselves into the category.

If I said "Those that eat too often are gluttons" then it would only be YOU that can consider yourself eating too often and a glutton. Obviously there are SOME that have a cultist mentality with mobi. If you think that's you...then obviously it's YOU by your own guilty admission in your own mind. That's not something I care about really. I am viewing the overall picture. What matters to me is mindset not names. I don't have a list or even a thought about WHO is in the mobi-cult...just that one appears to exist as a mindset. Do you doubt that as true? Can you honestly deny that some support mobi blindly and are bullish on mobi to an extreme?

mejcdj...can I ask have you ever let a name drop? Have you ever deleted a fresh registration? If so then you also have changed your mind. It's not a crime (like wife-beating)...and my opinions here haven't been hateful to any person.

 

[hawkeye]

"...and the beat goes on, ....and the beat goes on..."

 

[scandiman]

It is a rule in Dot TV subforum Scandiman because I started the forum and I run it and yes I told RJ about having stricter rules and that was fine. You cannot have it the other way with rules less strict than the overall forum.

So no reason Scandi that INOD cannot do the same. Make it a subforum rule

Where can I view the .TV rules? I've looked around but can't find them. TXS.

EDIT- never mind, I found them.

 

[Traveler]

NEO I am neither a swinger or go to lesbian bars You have to admit the lesbian bar one is funny and a good analogy IMO

I thought they were both good and funny and they definately caught me off my guard :hehe:

 

[ofclean]

The whole concept of 'mobi-hater' is insane.

All of you go NUTS at anyone who dares question anything about .mobi. I've even received unsolicited PMs! Often times the tone coming from you is very condescending, and an argument ensues.

The strange thing is: it's nearly always you guys who throw around personal insults, yet you all act the pack of wild '.mobi haters' are the ones who are rude/nonsensical. The reality is that anything short of religious support for this extension isn't good enough for you.

I understand that you are all trying to pump up hype for your investments, but don't misrepresent everyone else.

 

[GeoOwners]

arf

 

[goodkarmaco]

Art of communication

The main thing is we all agree .mobi has some promise and has some history and is making some domainers alot of cash. The reason some are selling is they may believe the extension is not going to go anywhere.

I personally think the reason they are selling is they have not had sales lately and are in need of cash. I know for myself at the moment some .mobi names I feel are worth alot of money in the future, I would let go for a much cheaper price today as I have many more domains I want to buy and every day that goes by I am taking a chance on never owning the ones I have my eye on.

Its not a fact yet, but many names that have sold the first time around to resellers will sell for many times multiples of what the reseller bought them for. When, (if) the end user comes around after more exposure, domains like Pizza.mobi will sure in hell sale for more than $22,000.

So lets get real here. Selling a .mobi today does in no way mean the owner does not believe the price has reached it's high. That they better dump the domain. No, selling now is because the owner does not want to wait until the name gets the attention down the road to escalate in price.

If a person was quick enough and wise enough to snag names like pizza .mob, why not sell now for a lower price?. Those wise domainers who have such high caliber names surely have others.

Think about how many more names they may buy with that money if they sell out quickly. They don't even have to buy other .mobis. Maybe they will buy.coms with their windfall.

Anyway you look at it, $22,000 paid for a .mobi that is only a few months old although undersold in my opinion is a lot of money that can be used to generate more.

I think some who have pointed out people are going nuts with the .mobi may have a good point when we see so many .mobi names that should never have been regged. If the name is not a targeted keyword, with great overture don't waste the money on it folks.

I guess that advice goes for .coms too.

In Name Pros what we all want is a community that we can all visit and gather and receive or leave input. Dividing us up with this and that side is pretty stupid Imo. When we see things differently it is no problem to post those viewpoints. Post them knowing other members are our community and so as neighbors we can look out for one and other.

Like Hawk says "Peace out"

 

[labrocca]

So lets get real here. Selling a .mobi today does in no way mean the owner does not believe the price has reached it's high. That they better dump the domain. No, selling now is because the owner does not want to wait until the name gets the attention down the road to escalate in price.

I didn't say that. I said..."They sell because the long-term outlook from the sellers view isn't worth holding out for". Now I don't know about you but when I need money I try and sell stuff that I believe has either peeked, slowed in it's growth, or simply something I am not interested in keeping anymore. If I had pizza.mobi and I really thought in 3-5 years it would be worth $xxx,xxx wouldn't you hold out? Now pizza.mob we MUST remember was sold from mTLD and not a reseller which imho bodes well for the extension as sellers aren't "ditching" their mobis. Instead I view the auction as a setting point for current market values. It can't be thought of as anything else. There was an auction...it was open and names sold to highest bidder. That's a market If you read my rant about mTLD over in my blog you will see my disgust for mTLD doing this and it's sheer greed. In spite of their promises to release domains via RFP to qualified applicants they have opted for the straight up bucks.

 

[hawkeye]

...Instead I view the auction as a setting point for current market values. It can't be thought of as anything else. There was an auction...it was open and names sold to highest bidder. That's a market ...

So with this analogy you present, does that mean that names like SportingGoods.com that couldn't get a bid past $500K are unrealistically overpriced, as no one felt it was worth going higher? (This being applicable to a few other names there that didn't sell too.) And that the .coms and others that sold for less than a lot thought they should of, have now set the point that people are not going to continue paying the high prices those types of names have been getting, and that those paid-for prices now reflect what the market now is for them too? Or does this analogy only apply to mobi names??

 

[mobidick]

So with this analogy you present, does that mean that names like SportingGoods.com that couldn't get a bid past $500K are unrealistically overpriced, as no one felt it was worth going higher? (This being applicable to a few other names there that didn't sell too.) And that the .coms and others that sold for less than a lot thought they should of, have now set the point that people are not going to continue paying the high prices those types of names have been getting, and that those paid-for prices now reflect what the market now is for them too? Or does this analogy only apply to mobi names??

What is the general trend of parking revenues - perhaps a tightening of the monetization flow from the likes of Yahoo, could account for a dampened enthusiasm for bidding for .com names? From what I read in other forums ppc advertisers are demanding and getting more transparency, which also could eventually take a big bite out of domain parking revenues. A whole lot of advertisers aren't thrilled with having their ads show up on parked sites. And Yahoo came out with a new system providing some geotargetting options. What's your guys' take on that and the possible effect on general spending mood at TRAFFIC.

 

[labrocca]

I didn't present an analogy. I stated my analysis on the facts. mobi did poorly by the standards of the mobi community here. That's a FACT. Can you tell me what it means if you think I am wrong? We are discussing mobi here not a tried and true extension such as dotcom so the comparison doesn't fit. However sportinggoods.com was overpriced imho and if they had started the bidding with no reserve it would have sold for a fair market value. I don't recall the last bid on that btw. At this auction they sold a HIGHER percentage of names than previous Traffic auctions. This clearly indicates they are placing names with better reserves and choosing names people want. It's a process...eventually they may reach 90%+ sell-through which for an auction of this type would be oustanding. They sold over $4 million in domains. Porn.com was priced OUT of it's market value...the buyer didn't see it's worth even as close to reserve as he was...he passed on it. That's an open market at work.

btw....I never used the term "unrealistically overpriced" in my post. What I will say was unrealistic was the valuation and expectations of domainers here at NP that voted in polls. That's an undisputable fact which many appear to be ignoring and dismissing.

 

[Lasher]

Cash-grab is polite terminology imho. The reason that mTLD is a greedy ass SOB organization is clear...it's withholding amazing names for top dollar sale. They have done very very little for transparency of their organization or how it works. We have no information on it's contracts or deals with mobile device manufacturers that are the supposed "backers". It's a damn shell game.

Unfortunately, the more time passes the more I find myself agreeing with you There was a time when I was naive enough to think I had a shot in hell at a premium .MOBI because it is in a niche where I have an established 10 year track record and an excellent development plan. When .MOBI was new I was a big fan of the RFP process, having so many quality keywords all with a developed site on them could have really captured mindshare with end users over the long term and given .MOBI a shot to be something. Now it's all just back down to the highest bidder.

I still have 30 or so .MOBIs mostly LLL "quality letters", so hedged just in case, but it's not looking too good from here.

 

[hawkeye]

I didn't present an analogy. I stated my analysis on the facts. mobi did poorly by the standards of the mobi community here. That's a FACT. Can you tell me what it means if you think I am wrong? We are discussing mobi here not a tried and true extension such as dotcom so the comparison doesn't fit. However sportinggoods.com was overpriced imho and if they had started the bidding with no reserve it would have sold for a fair market value. I don't recall the last bid on that btw. At this auction they sold a HIGHER percentage of names than previous Traffic auctions. This clearly indicates they are placing names with better reserves and choosing names people want. It's a process...eventually they may reach 90%+ sell-through which for an auction of this type would be oustanding. They sold over $4 million in domains. Porn.com was priced OUT of it's market value...the buyer didn't see it's worth even as close to reserve as he was...he passed on it. That's an open market at work.

btw....I never used the term "unrealistically overpriced" in my post. What I will say was unrealistic was the valuation and expectations of domainers here at NP that voted in polls. That's an undisputable fact which many appear to be ignoring and dismissing.

You are just so paranoid of any type of questioning of your views! whew!! First, I never said you were wrong on any thing! Second, no one ever said you used the term 'unrealistically overpriced'. Take a chill pill!! So a few domainers had overpriced expectations of some of the mobi names! If you look in the discussion area, and in other forums, a lot of other people had overpriced expectations for some .coms an other extensions too! So what!!! Why does the noted opinions of a few, drive you so nuts?!?? I and others see them too, but we don't go ballistic on them for having those views. I've never posted any expected prices for domains, not even in appraisals, because it's just an unbaseable assumption to do so at this point I feel. Let them dream, it really isn't killing anyone. Can't you post without the need show your pompous side to belittle anyone or those who may have higher expectations than you?? You probably told your kids at 4 'there was no Santa Claus, so get with the reality program!!' Maybe staying in that house all the time is starting to get to you. Go play a few slots for awhile, and tip a waitress. Heavily too!!

 

[labrocca]

1. I am very chill..and I do take pills for that
2. I am not paranoid (even without pills)
3. Who said it drove me nuts?
4. My kids still believe in Santa Claus even my 9 year old because a couple years ago I went into an elaborate scheme to trick them into believing he exists. It worked. Fact is with the correct scheme you can fool anyone into thinking anything.

So a few domainers had overpriced expectations of some of the mobi names!

Ugh...maybe you should go and look at some of those polls and threads again. It's OVERWHELMING that the mobi enthusiasts thought the auction would bring mobi to an even higher level. It did not..so did it have the opposite effect?

My personal opinion is that I drive you nuts not the other way around. I like to debate.

Can you do me a favor and give me your take on the Traffic auction and what effects if any it has on the mobi market? It's heart of the discussion and I don't see many counter views to my opinions only counter-views to the fact that I have one.

 

[hawkeye]

My take is that, for an auction that lacked in endusers for any extensions, it was a so so overall auction with no earth shattering notations. Sure they may have sold more names, but that doesn't make it a success unless you are the one collecting the 15%. Most of the people that go to Traffic auctions, are those that buy names for traffic or speculation purposes. Until these auctions are geared more to endusers, and domain educated ones at that, they are really just a outlet for domainers to sell their names to other domainers. These are still the early years of domaining and the average joe blow enduser is just not the main buyer of secondary names yet IMO. And no, you don't drive me nuts, but you do have to admit that mobi domainers with high expectations of prices for mobi names, just irks the hell out of you!

 

[labrocca]

admit that mobi domainers with high expectations of prices for mobi names, just irks the hell out of you!

I admit NOTHING!

http://mikesnoise.typepad.com/noisepage/images/schultz.jpg

If anything it's more amusing to me.

Most of the people that go to Traffic auctions, are those that buy names for traffic or speculation purposes. Until these auctions are geared more to endusers, and domain educated ones at that, they are really just a outlet for domainers to sell their names to other domainers.

And do you feel this is also the problem here at namepros where this site is geared toward domainers looking to make a buck vs the actual end-users that are the ones that need to adopt mobi as a standard? Do you consider how you think more like an end-user or a domainer about mobi?

 

[Jeff]

Since, apparently, none of the Traffic .MOBI's ended up in the hands of actual End users who would then presumably develop, market, and brand (and thus perpetuating the brand of the .MOBI, as well) the domains / websites ... how is the "ecosystem" to survive and flourish, IYHO's? :blink:

Thanks for your thoughts.
-Jeff

 

[hawkeye]

I'm a salesman Labrocca, I try to think like both, so I can see the true value from both sides. And think about it, how many endusers do you really think come in here to read and post!! And for a 6 month old 'what new extension?'!! Why would I think there is a problem at a domain forum filled with only domainers??

 

[GeoOwners]

Since, apparently, none of the Traffic .MOBI's ended up in the hands of actual End users who would then presumably develop, market, and brand (and thus perpetuating the brand of the .MOBI, as well) the domains / websites ... how is the "ecosystem" to survive and flourish, IYHO's? :blink:

Thanks for your thoughts.
-Jeff

what percentage of "good generic".coms do you think belong to end users vs domainers/domain reits ? not many from what I've seen. Why would .mobi be any higher of a percentage in such a short time?

 

[-db-]

I admit NOTHING!

To amuse myself, I sometimes imagine Jesse's comments coming from Cartman on Southpark.

:lol:

 

[nrmillions]

Since, apparently, none of the Traffic .MOBI's ended up in the hands of actual End users who would then presumably develop, market, and brand (and thus perpetuating the brand of the .MOBI, as well) the domains / websites ... how is the "ecosystem" to survive and flourish, IYHO's? :blink:

Thanks for your thoughts.
-Jeff

It can flourish the same way as .com does. If I want a pizza I dont go to pizza.com which is just a parked page owned by a domainer. I would go to Dominos.com or PizzaHut.com. If I want directions I dont type in directions.com, i would probably go to MapQuest.com. If I were going to try online dating I wouldnt type in singles.com, I would probably type in eharmony.com or match.com. Just like I already said, who cares where these generics end up. All that matters is if the big companies end up promoting their .mobi names for their own brands down the road and that new companies with millions in funding start their sites on .mobi and promote it.

 

[labrocca]

It was commented in my blog that I don't know anything about marketing. I know one thing for sure. mTLD has done an amazing job of marketing to it's target audience of domainers. I bet they had a target of 200-300k registrations in the first year. Investors gave mTLD about $12 million to start off. That means they are grossing about $2-$3 million at least so far. Then add these auctions where they get to make another $xxx,xxx sum ($300k+ at this traffic) and the backers should be pleased.

I still don't see how that measures to success to end-users/domainers and/or helps market the mobi extension when most of the domains are owned by domainers that either don't develop and/or park. This auction wasn't the RFP they promised to domainers that bought into the idea of mTLD being a good-will corporation.

mTLD is machiavellian just like any other company...this auction showed that to me.

 

[nrmillions]

It was commented in my blog that I don't know anything about marketing. I know one thing for sure. mTLD has done an amazing job of marketing to it's target audience of domainers. I bet they had a target of 200-300k registrations in the first year. Investors gave mTLD about $12 million to start off. That means they are grossing about $2-$3 million at least so far. Then add these auctions where they get to make another $xxx,xxx sum ($300k+ at this traffic) and the backers should be pleased.

I still don't see how that measures to success to end-users/domainers and/or helps market the mobi extension when most of the domains are owned by domainers that either don't develop and/or park. This auction wasn't the RFP they promised to domainers that bought into the idea of mTLD being a good-will corporation.

mTLD is machiavellian just like any other company...this auction showed that to me.

Obviously their goal is to make money. They arent a non profit or a charity. You just figured that out just now after this auction? They are a business. They probably havent made very much money yet. I am sure they have huge expenses to pay such as salaries and stuff. I am sure they will end up making a fortune eventually though. I could care less how many millions they make, as long as I am making money too.