Dominion.Domains

France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues

Labeled as legal in Domain Industry News started by Constantin S, Apr 29, 2018.

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  1. DnEbook

    DnEbook DataGlasses.Com ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So will web/com adhere to an American courts decision I wonder ? Is that where the owner will try to get justice?
     
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  2. Max1000

    Max1000 Upgraded Member Blue Account

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    I can't even believe web.com were so gutless as to just rollover on the letter from the french attorneys at https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4446110-Notification-20letter-20domain-20name-20-France.html.

    I've had stronger letters from Debt collectors about parking fines I'd forgotten.

    And $150 a day fines for a major company? SCARY. :xf.eek: And that applicable only after two months following service of the decision!

    Only thing I don't understand is why the original owner isn't including web.com in the list of Defendants in his counter-lawsuit; https://domainnamewire.com/wp-content/france-com.pdf; seems to me they had the contractual relationship with him and breached it by not even informing him before they turned it over.

    But then - wadoino
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  3. Max1000

    Max1000 Upgraded Member Blue Account

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    I imagine there are some people on these boards who are pretty major players and quite wealthy; if they wanted to help fight this in the general interests of Domain holders everywhere, I suspect there'd be an action they could help fund the original domain owner against web.com for breach of contract seeking multi-$M damages. Pour encourager les autres....
     
  4. Dansdomainarbitrage

    Dansdomainarbitrage Established Member

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    To sue your own country that is like a movie.
     
  5. panman

    panman Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Can any person residing in France tell me wether this news has been heard on French media? & what is their take on this?
     
  6. Smiles76

    Smiles76 Established Member

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    I'm sure he had offers for the domain throughout the years and should have sold it when he had the opportunity. Now, he just has to move on.
     
  7. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Move on ? But he was running an active website, it was a developed business, not just some guy sitting on a valuable domain.
     
  8. panman

    panman Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It will be very interesting to see the French Governments legal bill.
    Is this information publicly available to view?
     
  9. Kenny

    Kenny NamePros Staff Member Services Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is indeed interesting.
    Perhaps Mr. Berryhill could shed some light on this.
    @jberryhill

    Peace,
    Kenny
     
  10. bobbarato

    bobbarato Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I am going to start my own country and name it Sex...
     
  11. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I've been fairly busy lately.

    The circumstances around this, as I understand them, are a little more complicated than are generally appreciated. On the question of "How does a French court get jurisdiction over a US registrant?" the answer is pretty simple - "If the US registrant agrees to it." What happened here initially is that a private company in France, which also claimed certain rights, sued the US registrant in France.

    When you are in the US and you are sued in a foreign country, and that foreign country is in the relevant treaty system for international enforcement of judgments, you initially have two choices. One is that you can let the foreign proceeding go, not appear in that proceeding, and then challenge US enforcement of the judgment if, for example, the exercise of jurisdiction over you in that foreign proceeding would not satisfy US standards. The other choice would be to go ahead and show up in that foreign proceeding and participate in the case there.

    The thing is, if you take that second route, then when US enforcement of that judgment against you is sought, you can't argue that the foreign court didn't have jurisdiction over you. By showing up in the foreign proceeding on the substance of the case, you admitted to the jurisdiction of that court.

    So that first decision needs to be made on the basis of whether you believe it would be more efficient to mount a collateral challenge against a default judgment in the US, whether your activities underlying the suit would satisfy a US court's standard of whether the foreign jurisdiction was appropriate, and a few other things.

    So, where are we? Oh, okay... the private company in France filed a lawsuit in France against the US registrant in relation to the domain name. The US registrant decided to go ahead and participate in that lawsuit. But, the unexpected twist was that the French government later joined the lawsuit as a party and essentially argued "neither of those two parties are entitled to the domain name, we are." In France, as in many European countries, the relevant laws on geographic names are unlike those in the US. So, on the substance of the claim by the French government, the court decided in the government's favor.

    Coming back to the question of "How did a French court get jurisdiction over this?" the simple answer is that the registrant subjected himself to the jurisdiction of the court. That's the simple answer. The more complicated answer is... more complicated.

    HOWEVER, none of that has anything to do with the propriety of Web.com's decision to act on notice of a French court decision directing transfer of the domain name. I am not directly familiar with the specific form of the order, but while the court could have directed, say, the registrant to transfer the domain name (or risk whatever penalties or further expenses that may accrue from not doing so, or mounting a collateral challenge), that would be up to the registrant to comply, not comply, or challenge. Web.com was not before the court, and it is not my understanding that Web.com was ordered to transfer the domain name by the court. The domain name registration contract, by its own terms, states that it is a contract with a situs in Florida. Whether the French court had jurisdiction over the domain name itself (as opposed to the registrant) is an entirely different kettle of fish.
     
  12. MAG WEB DESIGNS

    MAG WEB DESIGNS Established Member

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    In persona jurisdiction? If one would respond with a " refusal for cause" due to lack of Jurisdiction of the presiding court over a non resident citizen? Would that be an acceptance of jurisdiction? Cause Lack of challenge of under UCC is considered consent?
     
  13. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm not sure I understand your questions, and don't have a lot of time on my hands at the moment. If you are asking whether the appearance in the foreign court was for the purpose of challenging jurisdiction, then the jurisdictional issue can be maintained in a collateral challenge in the US. Those were not the facts here, in my possibly limited understanding of them.
     
  14. MAG WEB DESIGNS

    MAG WEB DESIGNS Established Member

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    Just jumping in the waters here too :) Just sayin if the average JOE SHMOE is said to be in breach of contract from another country. If JOE SHMOE even responds with say a R4C because that country has no legal standing. Is that just the same as actually being in Persona on board their ship?

    Then I had another branch of thought. Becaue If JOE SHMOE is in fact not a sovereign but the asset of another sovereign. How can France risk an act of war by stealing intellectual property from a subsidiary of a Sovereign?

    Id post that little French guy with the hat if it would let me.
     
  15. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Mag, reading between the lines of your comments and the capitalization of JOE SHMOE, would I be correct in assuming that you are one of those persons who subscribes to sovereign citizen legal buffoonery?

    No, citizens of the US are not "agents for an entity named (whatever)", capitalization of letters doesn't mean a damned thing, and the US government does not obtain a security interest in your "entity named whatever" by the fact of your having a birth certificate.

     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  16. MAG WEB DESIGNS

    MAG WEB DESIGNS Established Member

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    Sovereign citizen is an oxymoron. I think you get my point they can't have it both ways.
    Smart counsel would would own those noobs.
     
  17. iAchilles

    iAchilles Active Member VIP

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    Agreed but they do have a fine president.

    Huh? If the owner's experience dealing with the French with domain names I think it's likely more accurate that he has gotten hundreds of insulting offers on the domain.

    The French have a strange sense of entitlement with domain names that relate to their business or country, which probably stems from the old Cliche that they are arrogant, it's an unfortunate truth about France. Everything they do is best and they are one of the worst cultures for ethnocentric views.

    it's something I come across regularly with end users all over the world, but with the French 9/10 inquiries and responses have a piss poor attitude (I'm half French btw).

    I wanted to get rid of a domain I have which is the name of a town, I offered it to a local who had booked several related names, he was interested but said I was unreasonable for my mid $xxx asking price.

    I tend to avoid the French market these days as far as domains are concerned.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  18. sellbourne

    sellbourne Established Member

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