For some reason, I've been thinking of quitting domaining recently. Yeah - go figure. I'm sharing the thoughts, feel free to share yours.

[twiki]

That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.

 

[twiki]

last year, so, what changed since then, nothing.

I agree with the rest (more or less), but this one doesn't stick.

A lot has changed.

There is no fast, easy, profitable exit if one is looking for that, I think.

 

[twiki]

Dear twiki,
thank you for sharing your plans with us. Interesting ideas.
I can suggest to evaluate if the market is interested and willing to pay for a tool before investing on it.

Hi, I am rewriting the comment as it went out unfinished.

Thanks for your comment. Please note that my tech is not just for domaining, that is actually a small part of it.

Also, I have launched startups in the past and I know the drill well. Besides I don't need to invest as I already have these, just a bit of work to make them public. All the tech I will be going online with is stuff I have been working on for years for my own purposes and for research for such future plans.

Moreover there are premium tools sold for few dollars on seo group buy.

Sure thing, there will always be. I don't care.

Another point is competition: suppose you want to build a domain evaluator. Are you sure you can compete with an establish tool like estibot?

My tool is far better than Estibot. (edit: I admit, I am biased... anyway) Sorry, I don't want to bash Estibot which is a good service but I think their appraisal tool is the weakest of them all. The others they have are much better.

In fact I used Estibot originally to prefilter domains by value and found it extremely lacking. So my appraiser was built actually as a reaction to the dissatisfaction I had with Estibot. (Edit: and used for years, and still used for personal tasks).

A big difference of the domain business compared to other businesses is that buyers are looking for your domains while it's your task to look for buyers in traditional businesses.

The introduction of ngTLDs has increased the offer; we must take this into account and adapt.

It's not that. The demand is growing higher than the offer even with all nTLDs.

These are more difficult times but we'll see.

My intentions to quit were not just financial related, as I said I have other reasons to consider. Meanwhile, I'm not quitting however but rather pivoting the model.

I'm not an expert in domain sales but I can confirm that domain parking is performing well in the last years.

I'm not interested in parking but it can be an option for certain users. However for smaller scale income I'd say. Developing is probably better than parking especially that renewal fees get not to be such a burden.

 

[BeingDomainInvestor]

If I had a large amount of money, I would invest it in any manufacturing business. I am doing domaining just to rise money. when I will have a big investment, I will put it in a physical business. You all can either agree or disagree with my opinion. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Reddstagg]

Well stated.

Please don't follow me...I'm lost too!!!

 

[ResoluteDomains]

I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. Not just with domains, with everything.

Exactly

 

[twiki]

The one who has the money and buys today, maybe will not be able to sell that much soon; but on the long run, things will definitely pay out good. I plan to hold some .COMs that meet this criteria long-term. Definitely selling within a few years' time, whatever the number of years is. Will keep full retail price on them, auto renew.

TBH - there is something rather personal at play as well, which weights a lot. Perhaps Definitely more than the partial decline of the domain sales.

I think I need to explain it a bit now. I've been thinking a lot since starting this thread. About where I am now, and where life is taking me now. Which is mostly elsewhere.

My Dotible.com project is a life changer already.

Never had so much interest with something so early stage. Yet not even 1% of the stuff is live yet (it's in a ridiculous state so far). And it caters to multiple industries, domain investing etc is not even a primary target for the site, although I plan to serve such users just as well of course. But domaining is a tiny niche and there's not much money flowing around in paid services. ( I shamefully admit as well, I only have one paid subscription, which is Namebio).

Dotible is already quite visited and I've been repelling the bots aiming to grab bulk data for free lately.
(no, that won't work and will only get ya banned; simply get in touch via contact page and you'll get a good offer).

I also know what it is going to become. Not just a financial changer for me. But also something useful because of several factors, 1) decades of unpublished work on tools that are brought up, 2) tools that are NOT out there or can be improved in certain gaps in several industries (yes there are large gaps like that) and 3) It's built out of passion. The latter being a vital factor.

Also it is something where I see massive progress in short time, I can accomplish most per hour in comparison with anything else ever, and it's pure creation - like a form of art. Which feeds the brain so well. My domaining, though nice and profitable, doesn't match my past successes; AND it definitely doesn't match where this is going to. Although, for the time being domaining still pays a significant part of my living costs.

By comparison with domaining (quite a bit of work and investment, and some risk) running a successful tech startup is like printing money.

But it's tough to get it there. Well this time it's different than anything I've ever done in this line. I have no doubt it's getting there as I hold all the cards. Never had been drawn so many good cards at once.

So yeah, I'm biased and luck takes me in another direction. That's why I think nobody should be demoralized by me kinda quitting the mainstream.

Also, as a result of this: a) many of my domains will be cleared out, and b) the tools I use to snag the domains I sell will be (are being) made public via subscriptions (and some free). I'm positive they will make a difference for many domainers. And hopeful they'll use it.

Anyway, hope this makes things a bit more clear.

 

[phaethon]

One more, in a LONG list, of reasons to dump Epik.

Name Liquidate also seems dead. Not sure if you have a better experience..

 

[twiki]

Name Liquidate also seems dead. Not sure if you have a better experience..

Nope. Only sold like 2 names there for cheap, then I gave up.

 

[twiki]

Market changed, that's a reality and I completely understand your point.

I still love too much domains and I really hope a prolonged stagflation will not burn everything.

I'm convinced there is a bottom segment which will be always profitable no matter the economy and I'm striving to find it.

Might be a wishful thinking but I'm still confortable with the risk involved and excited to become a better domainer.

Good.

But TBH I think the bottom segment has went down the most.

I think you are better off playing the long game.

 

[zomainhacks]

Good.

But TBH I think the bottom segment has went down the most.

I think you are better off playing the long game.

Sorry, I've expressed badly what I wanted to say.

What I mean is that I'm convinced there is a segment that can perform well even under economic turmoil.

 

[VadimK]

Hi, thanks for this.

Just a bit of clarification needed as you got it a bit wrong as I see you are confused. Maybe I haven't been clear.

1) Drops: Most domains I pick and sell are NOT taken fast at drop. I register them by hand, though I could use an API, but it's not needed. Sometimes I forget to do this and I get in one hour late. Names are still there in most cases (not all but a good part of that)

Which means, they fly well below the radar.

Which further means, I see value where others don't.

That's the reason there is no direct "competitor" for me in the sales thread regarding drops. So what I see as value, you might not, as well as others. (... Beauty in the eye of the beholder? )

Lately I've been focusing on certain niches.

For example I'm not currently taking any crypto, defi and stuff. I'm into too many niches, reducing niches to reduce portfolio size as well; so yeah, there's still plenty left.

I'm also ditching half from my own list for the day for the same reduction goals. Sometimes it's itching me to get it but I learned to resist the temptation.

There are others in niches where other people go for, but I'm not into those. You have to specialize in what you know and understand best.

2) My main drive now is that I find tech way more tempting. I always found that. It also has massive potential and far less risk for me, due to aces I have up my sleeve in tech (decades of code and experience).

3). I'm still making money with domains. And will continue to. But by my own standards, kind of high, it's not enough. I also reinvest less currently, as I have some costs to manage right now.

So I will reduce my portfolio a lot and move those $$$$$ into something else, where you don't double or triple your money but achieve much more, faster and with less risk. I also want to buy a house in the woods right now, part of the cash will go into that.

So... it ain't as you interpreted it. The whole thing.
----------------
Edit: I could have scaled this 2 x, 3x or more. But I decided not to. If you feel like I'm losing an opportunity, I can confirm that yes, I do lose domaining opportunities now - by choice. But I'll be gaining way more by the tech route.

Oh, and I'm planning to somehow offer my "interitance" further to other domainers. My tools, methods, even a daily drop list to look at via an subscription. Time will tell the format.

For example the appraisal tool in my sig. That's one important piece in a very large puzzle.

I made it years ago, improved it a lot over the years. Still improving today.

I made the code learn from data, but then the code taught me. I've used it so much until we got to actually agree both on most domains.

That's why I see value where others don't, I guess: I have probably been trained by the data itself in return. Which is totally unusual in this field.

But that doesn't make me the best domainer in the world, just one that does alright and has his own method.

Fair enough. That was my reply to a very initial post, I didn't read all the replies and conversation on this thread. Now I see you introduced your website, and will definitely take a detailed look.

 

[twiki]

Also, @VadimK

By looking at your sig, apart from the 4-letter .com, there is a ton of similar stuff not taken at drop.

I was also talking only about 4-figs. In 3-fig? Lot of stuff to sell. I just don't go for that anymore. For example good geo domains, everyday niches, and countless niches I don't go into.

 

[twiki]

Fair enough. That was my reply to a very initial post, I didn't read all the replies and conversation on this thread. Now I see you introduced your website, and will definitely take a detailed look.

It's not much there yet, not impressive at all yet; but it will be I think.

(Edit: once I get to work enough on it, for now I'm moving a warehouse to another location, this is an unrelated brick and mortar biz, so it's been crazy and had limited time these days)

I'm still trying to prioritize which tools I put there as there is a list of features to add, the length of an entire novel.

Have about 300 million names in my database, that will be enhanced with other data and various new tools launched. And that's not the entire thing, just a corner of it.

 

[twiki]

This sig I put up many months ago and never changed ever since (2 times, when sold names, replacing) - so, it's not my best names (what's the point to advertise best to domainers? I need no ''reseller'' sales) , however I obviously disagree that there are ''tons of similar stuff'' . Bring me a sample of anything decent with ''crypto'' or ''art'' at drops - no way you have a somewhat close to good combination. Same with any clean ''two words'' or GEO... Brandables - yes, of course cause anything can be brandable in theory.

Define "good combination"?

What kind of price are you looking at, and what is the sales ratio you're looking at? ( there are names which carry value but might take longer to sell)

 

[StartupsBrandsCom]

Do you know who really made the money during the gold rush? The guy selling picks and shovels. Go figure..right.

It is the oversimplification context, it should have determent "in the end" as expression is referring toward industrialization and engineering since. Anyhow it seems logical as in any inclusive development and competitions through civilizations.

 

[zomainhacks]

Know it'll be okay
We've weathered these storms before. The .com bubble, the financial crisis, the pandemic. No one thought the world would recover. The truth is, people will always need domain names as long as we have internet. What the pandemic has shown us is that people are resilient and the internet always comes back full-swing.

Hope you're right, started observing the domain market in late 2020 so I don't have a practical taste of how things can change during a recession.

So far my impression is that things slowed a bit but the cake is still there and considering the high level of uncertainty in the global markets domains are not performing so badly.

Did you were involved in domains during the 2008-2009 financial crisis? How reacted the domain market back then?

 

[twiki]

What about a level deeper than the insiders lounge, such as, the Professional Appraisals section? For example, this more recent professional appraisal levels up all previous appraisals and sets a whole new bar on domain asset value data collection and research: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-purchase-com-keep-or-drop.1283853/ - (Note: The link is only accessible by VIP and Gold members)

There's a few people that like to read those with their morning coffee, for both entertainment and educational purposes. Did you know there were 34+ IP (Intellectual Property) evaluation methodologies?

I get it though, Every decade or so, I burn out and need a refresh and purge before jumping back into the deep end of the swimming pool. I'm rotating back in while it looks like you are thinking of rotating out. Just keep in mind, even when on outer rotation to focus on other ventures and scaling, it's handy to keep at least one finger on the pulse of a constantly changing industry, to stay in the loop, so your rotation back in later (when ready) is smoother.

In my opinion, If there's only 1 thing you do moving forward to stay connected to the pulse (While scaling your ventures), reading entertaining and educational hand crafted/original domain asset evaluations, leveraging the Intellectual property evaluation methodologies, just seems like a good add to the arsenal of industry reading materials.

Personally, I think the professional appraisal section is worth clicking the "Watch Section" link for automated alerts. Maybe even a bookmark.

At any rate, regardless what you decide or where in your rotation you are, I wish you and your ventures the best of success.

Thanks, but we are all different. I'm totally not interested in any of that insider thread stuff.

TBH I probably did alright in domaining. But far less than I could have done in another field (tech). For me it's not sufficient.

I'm reducing my financial footprint (investment) while moving focus to something else.

As I said, for me domaining will be secondary from now on.

 

[twiki]

I think the domain business is a good investment for pensioners and people of art. For those who can wait. To start investing, you need at least 1000 quality domains. That is 10 thousand dollars. With average sales indicators, 1%, 10 domains will be sold per year. I don’t know how others have, my net profit is $ 2,000 from one domain. This means that for 1000 domains renewalls per year it need pay $10,000, and get net gain 20,000-10,000 = $10,000 per year. It turns out a little less than a thousand dollars a month. It is not enough. But with this money you can buy food and not die in a developed country. And this is a lot of money in the third world countries. In addition, there is still one big factor. This is now the average STR is 1%, but before the crisis of this year, my indicator was 2-3%. Therefore, I consider it inappropriate to part with Domaining business. I believe in success.

You're forgetting something.

Unless you have better avenues. Much better, though it takes a bit. Which I have.

Edit: Also, I cannot live with $1000 per month or not even $2000, by far. That K would cover just for my daughter's tuition costs in UK, she's at uni right now.

 

[StartupsBrandsCom]

To start investing, you need at least 1000 quality domains

That is the exact purpose of domains business, to catch on good stuff and redistribute for profit. But as with a Mr. Rob Monster team's business experiment of including developing countries(some) on their market place, it could turn-out as not enough for global business demand trending.

 

[topdom]

When economy gets bad, when sending your outbound email, tell potential buyers that, only reason their business is failing is that, they don't have a good domain (such as, whatever you are selling). Also mention a recent multimillion sale. Result: You create one more domainer.

A big problem: how to quit. I mean sell all cheap, and quit. But I think it can't happen either. Whoever sees that you are willing to sell cheap, will know that that domain will be available for reg fee soon.
I wonder whether there are any bulk buyers. Someone (Godaddy, Hugedomains,..) who would pay 5 percent of actual potential/appraisal.

You can make 100K profit and then what: scale up?: it may hurt when you have to pay 80k of it on renewals.
You may not want to renew, but, they were all in "must renew list" last year, so, what changed since then, nothing.

 

[twiki]

editing

 

[lock]

Pricing would be top reason domains aren't selling and ease of contact but the thing with domains. If you have an idea you sell it. Sometimes you have enough faith and invest further into it yourself and become end user. If going to quit them make one of the great ideas happen.

 

[WNC HOLDINGS]

Please don't follow me...I'm lost too!!!

Maybe you’ve “discovered” something. Give yourself credit for the find. Thank you for sharing! #lostandfound

 

[StartupsBrandsCom]

...

 

[NYJimbo]

When you finally do find a good one, Epik takes it from your account a month later, and another party gets the sale.

One more, in a LONG list, of reasons to dump Epik.