Dynadot

For some reason, I've been thinking of quitting domaining recently. Yeah - go figure. I'm sharing the thoughts, feel free to share yours.

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twiki

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That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
If you feel doing something else it's time to shift, the world will not get better but worse, there are reasons for all that happens today in the world, I personally plan to learn programming as a side job, I see some people even locally make allot.
I plan to build my own true secure browser, search engine, social media, chat and email, I have the perfect domains but not the programing skills.
Go buy a bike take some rides, only don't buy electric ones, I personally think they are for lazy people and long distances, bicycles are made so you train the body but not sit and grow your belly.
 
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Seeing even you "kinda quitting" is very depressing, BTW market changes and it's completely rational looking for less volatile and more rewarding investments.

Wish you all the best for your projects
Hey, don't be depressed. That was not my intent anyway.

It's not like I don't make money. I do.

But I'm also aware this is not the same as it was 1-2 years ago.

Who knows what the future holds. I'm just preemptive due to my business-formed instinct. (might be right, might be wrong)

The biggest problem I see now for my model is that clearance doesn't work anymore. I clear better and better names and get fewer and fewer sales, close to 0 in the last months.

But other domainers are still making good money and each one's portfolio is different. I'm talking just about my particular case and thoughts.
 
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On the contrary, I've only just got back into this.

It may not be a bad thing when people are leaving the market, if they can't find much value in the market or feel it's not worth it anymore. It probably means more "quality" drops, less competition in auctions and for backorders.

What's important is to only acquire high quality names and it's just like what Buffett's view of investing in companies. Acquire high quality names, hold it and be patient. Although this is a skill I'm still learning.

There will be lots up and downs but good quality portfolio will payoff in the long run.

I'm sure big players like HugeDomains, will probably never stop or slow down but be more aggressive when everyone else is giving up.
 
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Did you were involved in domains during the 2008-2009 financial crisis? How reacted the domain market back then?
That is when I got heavily into domain investing. Bad markets often create opportunities.

Brad
 
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It is the oversimplification context, it should have determent "in the end" as expression is referring toward industrialization and engineering since. Anyhow it seems logical as in any inclusive development and competitions through civilizations.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said...it must be fluent intellectualese...keep it simple mate...I'm a bit tick loike!!!
 
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Do not despair. Let everything be in its own way. You cannot derive your assets from the domain business promptly. Even if you significantly reduce prices. Do a new business and do domaining as a hobby. I started very late, almost without investment, manually buying one or two domain per month and made the first sale when the total number of my domains exceeded a hundred. Last year I had only 200 domains, I bought another 200 for a year without using personal funds, but payed new domain registrations from the percentage of sales. Over the past six months, I have sold only 2 domains, but this fits into an average of 1%. I am still interested that. For me, the main thing is that I am so still in the plus. This is not enough for a decent life, but it is a little progress. Even in such a difficult time. We live in a digital century. The domain is a passport of any company. And everyone needs passports at this stage of civilization. Remember this.
 
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The domain market is tough right now and will likely just get tougher.

The economy is tanking, a recession looms and end-user sales aren't what they used to be. Add to that record-breaking wholesale prices on top expired domains and domaining can be a rather daunting experience.

Personally, I am buying less, paying less for what I do buy and just being satisfied with what manage to get. I think it's very dangerous to be playing with the whales right now if you don't have, or no longer have, that type of massive influx of domain sales revenue to support it.

Adapt or die.
 
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It's good to see you have atleast a 100% ROI. Is that net or after renewals, hosting, taxes and other overhead?

While 100% ROI isn't huge, if it's covering all your overhead and bringing profit into the green, consistently month to month, it may be worth assigning or onboarding an operator to manage that aspect of the venture, to keep it thriving, while you focus on scaling it better, diversifying your portfolio, or other ventures, then circle back to it to scale it later (That's what I just did = circled back and scaled/leveled up).

In any of the above cases, while it does make since to clean up and potentially scale down a portfolio, if you scale down too much, too fast, it could throw off your diversity balance, creating a pothole to fall in when the markets shift back in your favor again for that specific ventures asset(s) in you portfolio.

That's just my opinion though. Everyone's different.

I'm surprised I don't see more posts from you in the insiders lounge (accessible to VIPs and Gold members)
Please note I no longer post on NP except advertising kind (my projects, see the signature), sales reports and rare minor comments like this one.

To your comment (thanks) I wanted to reply this:

- Never saw anything interesting in the insiders lounge. Not for me. ( I will obviously not post anything there anyway, given the limited NP presence I have from now on. )

- I have ~ 150% ROI in 2022. It is profit but not perfect. Yes, net profit after ALL expenses from a to z.

Future will tell. For the moment I am still buying domains, have found ways to multiply my ROI a lot by tuning the portfolio and pricing.
 
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This industry can be exhausting.

Everyone needs a break.
 
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- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.
This is what really depressing , The current market bad and foggy situation , leading to very slow or no results in domain sales , as we see in sales thread no actions and excitements like it was before .
This main fatcor to depress you and let you think to change the direction .

.
 
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If you feel doing something else it's time to shift, the world will not get better but worse, there are reasons for all that happens today in the world, I personally plan to learn programming as a side job, I see some people even locally make allot.
I plan to build my own true secure browser, search engine, social media, chat and email, I have the perfect domains but not the programing skills.
Go buy a bike take some rides, only don't buy electric ones, I personally think they are for lazy people and long distances, bicycles are made so you train the body but not sit and grow your belly.

This is cool, but programming-wise I'd suggest refrain. I have 30 years of coding behind and owned a software dev house back in the days, so I kinda have an idea about how things are in this field.

Professional level programming is NOT as easy to learn as it appears. I'd say it takes a minimum of 5 years to get anywhere near that. Guys who throw some Node.js or Laravel and voila' - something is made - don't really acquire the skills to build something of that magnitude in an year or two of dabbling. Most never do. ( Edit: those makeshift applications tend to have various issues, such as for example poor security; even that aspect in itself takes years to master.)

Building your own secure browser and search engine? Those are some daunting tasks for the best coders out there. I've worked years on my own search tech and never got anywhere, as it is extremely daunting. I do however have an clear idea as to how I could build that, if ever.

Try having 10 years of solid programming behind, be a full stack dev (one stack at least) before even thinking about that.

I'd start by building some websites and go from there. Perhaps do some changes or add some features via code first. Or leverage /resell /repack some service from another firm (easy).
 
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That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.
It's good to see you have atleast a 100% ROI. Is that net or after renewals, hosting, taxes and other overhead?

While 100% ROI isn't huge, if it's covering all your overhead and bringing profit into the green, consistently month to month, it may be worth assigning or onboarding an operator to manage that aspect of the venture, to keep it thriving, while you focus on scaling it better, diversifying your portfolio, or other ventures, then circle back to it to scale it later (That's what I just did = circled back and scaled/leveled up).

In any of the above cases, while it does make since to clean up and potentially scale down a portfolio, if you scale down too much, too fast, it could throw off your diversity balance, creating a pothole to fall in when the markets shift back in your favor again for that specific ventures asset(s) in you portfolio.

That's just my opinion though. Everyone's different.

I'm surprised I don't see more posts from you in the insiders lounge (accessible to VIPs and Gold members)
 
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Love you're building towards your endgoal. Your perfect place and location to settle for life.

Interesting thread btw. Don't despair. Adaption to current circumstances is obviously needed but recognise your strong points and build from that to a brighter future.

Trust yourself, your knowledge and your instincts. You will succeed if you put your mind to it.

You have been an inspiration to me and I would bet a whole lot of other domainers. Thank you for that and I wish you well on your journey in domaining and life in general which is so much more import.

Thank you!
 
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4 years is even worse 😫
You need to get better names. Those are under any threshold.

You are absolutely correct -- its not the same as it was. I know exactly where you're coming from.

I dont know what it is, blame it on the global pandemic or the globally depressed economy. I really dont know. All I know is I've been in this domaining business for 22 years and never, ever have I experienced over a year of no sales. Last sale (was a lease) was April 2021. Before that August 2020. TONS of inquiries though. Same number, perhaps slightly lower number of inquiries but sales - gone. Its a stage-1 drought.

Some give advice to do outbound. I have never done outbound in 22 years and wont start now. Too much chance of being labeled a spammer and domainers already get a bad rap for being "squatters". So no, no outbound. I've always done very well, happily well, listing domains at marketplaces and auction sites. It doesnt seem to be working anymore. My names arent stellar domain names but they're also not pigeon crap either. The fact that they receive what I perceive to be legitimate offers tells me they're worth something, but not $10 or even $100. LOL.

So, I, too, have been considering exiting and that consideration didnt begin today, last month or even earlier this year. I've been contemplating it for at least a year now, waiting for the market to pick up... its beyond frustrating now.
There is a multitude of factors. The decline of tech market (although a bit more stable now) is affecting domaining. So is the crypto price decline, although it might not seem a direct factor.

Major tech stocks have sunk even 80% this year. Fear and uncertainty ahead.

Do the math. It's easy to see, really.

But what comes next? Nobody knows. I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. Not just with domains, with everything.
 
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I like you a lot, @twiki , always read your posts with great interest and sometimes follow some advice as well. However, I have to admit, this post is quite controversial. Of course, it is absolutely normal and logical for anyone to choose a new path that you have a passion for / bring you more money / simply of a less hussle.
The thing is that you've been claiming on every second post here that you are perfect (and immediately!) spotting good names right away. You were saying you know exactly that they will sell at least for high XXX. Matter of fact you were claiming you leave behind tens of such names every day on dropped lists, just because you don't have time to deal with them.

Now, multiply this fact to a portfolio of a few thousands (if I am not mistaken you were going from a portfolio of 20k + to like 4000). So, with the skill mastered and a few thousands names in the portfolio of if you sell thru rate goes down from like 2% to like 0,5% due to market turmoil, it still shouldn't be a huge problem for you.

Not to make this post critical but contributive, I want to add that I actually don't agree with you on a claim that there are lots of useful dropped leftovers every night, on the domains market today. I've been watching them a lot, analyzing thousands. Extremely few, not even jewels, but simply something worth trying. Sure enough, like in a famous theory of a chimpanzee and typing machine, when eternity is given, she will once type ''War and Peace'' - same way lots of such leftovers will sell one day, but to me that day is so far, that no point to take this name.

For me, if I buy names low-cost (hand reg) I prefer going analyzing actual words, trends, niches, key-word popularity and invest in them, rather than pick ups from secondary markets (but I do try to pick up some good quality backorders with Dynadot, though).

With that being said, I definitely do appreciate your honesty and thoughts, cause you aren't scared to look controversial or even weak (which you are definitely not). Your posts are interesting to read and worth the time to reply.

Good luck!

Hi, thanks for this.

Just a bit of clarification needed as you got it a bit wrong as I see you are confused. Maybe I haven't been clear.

1) Drops: Most domains I pick and sell are NOT taken fast at drop. I register them by hand, though I could use an API, but it's not needed. Sometimes I forget to do this and I get in one hour late. Names are still there in most cases (not all but a good part of that)

Which means, they fly well below the radar.

Which further means, I see value where others don't.

That's the reason there is no direct "competitor" for me in the sales thread regarding drops. So what I see as value, you might not, as well as others. (... Beauty in the eye of the beholder? )

Lately I've been focusing on certain niches.

For example I'm not currently taking any crypto, defi and stuff. I'm into too many niches, reducing niches to reduce portfolio size as well; so yeah, there's still plenty left.

I'm also ditching half from my own list for the day for the same reduction goals. Sometimes it's itching me to get it but I learned to resist the temptation.

There are others in niches where other people go for, but I'm not into those. You have to specialize in what you know and understand best.

2) My main drive now is that I find tech way more tempting. I always found that. It also has massive potential and far less risk for me, due to aces I have up my sleeve in tech (decades of code and experience).

3). I'm still making money with domains. And will continue to. But by my own standards, kind of high, it's not enough. I also reinvest less currently, as I have some costs to manage right now.

So I will reduce my portfolio a lot and move those $$$$$ into something else, where you don't double or triple your money but achieve much more, faster and with less risk. I also want to buy a house in the woods right now, part of the cash will go into that.

So... it ain't as you interpreted it. The whole thing.
----------------
Edit: I could have scaled this 2 x, 3x or more. But I decided not to. If you feel like I'm losing an opportunity, I can confirm that yes, I do lose domaining opportunities now - by choice. But I'll be gaining way more by the tech route.

Oh, and I'm planning to somehow offer my "interitance" further to other domainers. My tools, methods, even a daily drop list to look at via an subscription. Time will tell the format.

For example the appraisal tool in my sig. That's one important piece in a very large puzzle.

I made it years ago, improved it a lot over the years. Still improving today.

I made the code learn from data, but then the code taught me. I've used it so much until we got to actually agree both on most domains.

That's why I see value where others don't, I guess: I have probably been trained by the data itself in return. Which is totally unusual in this field.

But that doesn't make me the best domainer in the world, just one that does alright and has his own method.
 
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If anyone could find a formula to make 150% roi, he'd be soon a billionaire and wouldn't be crying about it.

150% roi means 2.5x of your investment every year.

2.5^10=9537x

So if you invest 10k now, in 10 years you would have $95 million.
 
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Well, stocks are not exactly a guaranteed income either. And, of course, with stocks, if you could show few years of track record of making just 20% ROI consistently, you'd have no problem of raising billions of investors' money.

And here you guys are talking about 100%-150% as something not worthy and having better options. That is bogus.

I can relate with the scalability part though. But that is challenge for any business after certain stage. Even HD, if it started today, would struggle to reach 8-9 million domain portfolio size.

Scaling to thousands is not hard, scaling to tens of thousands is challenging (my current stage), scaling to hundreds of thousands is a huge task nowadays.
Yep, that's what I meant. I'm glad you recognized the issue.

I know that the ROI isn't too shabby. But there are many other factors at play, too long of a discussion, scalability among them.

One of these is, lately the sales are indeed slow so overall for the year it looks like i will not be anywhere near 150%. This has been so... so far. In the last 30-60 days though, my sales are much fewer (as most of us can see as well with their own sales).

The other is I don't trust sales next year. At all.

I have a gut feeling things will be way worse (and based on some data of course. Not just in domaining. So this was... past ROI.

( Edit: I also have some other businesses which are connected to macro economy and there are some crazy things happening right now. Got all sorts of signals which told me already I should be playing safe, and long term. High exposure right now in domains, it's not playing safe. It's okay if you have money to sleep on for few years. I don't, need them for other things as well. )

The biggest mistake I ever made in my decades of business (been in several very different fields) , was projecting for growth when everything yelled at me the contrary. Since then, I always smelled nasty stuff pretty accurately. And right now I smell blood. We all haven't learned too much from history and these upcoming years will be reckoning time.

I do have other avenues as I said. Not only bigger long-term, but much safer. But that's out of current discussion.

I took the plunge with domains years ago because I knew this will work. Same is now, but in tech. I have all cards, just taking the time to play them.
 
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The problem you mentioned is not just a problem in the domain name industry,
The current state of the global economy is very bad,
The epidemic has been going on for many years,
It has severely hit various industries,
Just imagine if the market for domain names is not good, will other industries become better?
I have met many friends who have entered the real industry to start their own businesses in recent years,
Now we have to worry about store rent and employees' salaries every month,
I have seen a person who made a lot of money on domain names at that time reinvest in BTC,
At present, the loss of ten cents is gone

This is true.

However there are multiple ways one can make money, domaining is only one of them. I happen to have had activated and I still activate in other fields as well. ( Edit: commerce, software, marketing. )

Some, done right, are safer and more profitable even in more difficult times. The secret is to find particular ways to provide value while spending less. I'm good at that in general. (Edit: Services are easier in such times rather than trade, and require far less money usually; but you have to focus on the right ones.)

Also, this crisis is an opportunity for reinvention. I'm in my 50's now but I feel young and have strength so I welcome that challenge.

I'm still going to hold domains but in a different manner, on a smaller scale though.
 
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Domaining is a long game. Quick profits are possible, but not for your average domainer.
 
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Sort of moving my domaining from all-in, to a side gig.
Seeing even you "kinda quitting" is very depressing, BTW market changes and it's completely rational looking for less volatile and more rewarding investments.

Wish you all the best for your projects
 
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You won't be able to quit this business because you like to make easy money.
This is just another post where you are making such reproaches. You panic because things are getting a little worse, so you try to make excuses and bluff to find a way out.

I don't think your personal business decisions get anyone excited.
And there is no one else on the forum who complains so often about bad sales and makes pessimistic predictions more often than you.
 
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Wow, tough going over a year of no sales - did that make it easier to decide which names to renew and drop?

Domaining can feel like a banging head against the wall venture even in the best of times
I renew every domain which has ever had an inquiry in the past couple of years as I keep track of the domains I drop and sure enough, people will wait long for them to drop. I had one domain which I had an inquiry with a back and forth email discussion about it but never converted to a sale. A few years later, no more inquiries and little traffic - I dropped it. It was picked up by that person a month later. This was 12 years ago before drop catching pretty much grabbed everything.

I've also dropped domains without inquiries and they, too, were picked up. So the way I thought of it was if there was still a viable business use for the domain (wasnt an old trend) and there were inquiries then I renew it. If there werent any inquiries in years and there is still a trend with the keywords, possibly traffic (not bot traffic but I wonder about even bot traffic - people checking the domain daily for it to drop?) then I renew them too. It only costs $8.49 to renew (now thats increased :( ) Or I'll use NameLiquidate where I've had success getting something back for it and being content to "drop" / sell it at a fire-sale price.
 
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scaling to tens of thousands is challenging (my current stage),
The new BuyDomains 2.0? You play hard. Good luck! :xf.cool:


I believe that Mr. Twiki will reconsider his ideas when he sees that is again selling 30 domains per month on a recurring basis. I'm sure he will be back with a smile on his face :)
 
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But what if you could have a car that was also a boat and a boat that was also a car!!! I think that we can ride out the downturn in the economy and just keep doing what we do. The pandemic was a major hurdle for us all and I'd guess like many I just rolled up my sleeves, pivoted a little and got through to the other side. In truth, I don't think it will get much worse if at all and that only means one thing...everything from here on in goes in one direction...UP. In two years time you will be selling lie you didn't have a care in the world and you will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. We're still here. We're still standing.

I'm more excited about the future now than I was a couple of years ago when I really didn't have a Scooby Doo (clue) what I was doing. I figured it out, set forth a plan and I put it into action.

There are too many tales of woe but your success gave hope to many that there was light at the end of the tunnel which wasn't a train coming to run us down.

You could always start investing in hyphenated names LOL. Now, there is a challenge.

Rgrds,

Redd

There are always new avenues and things to try out, even within domaining.

I guess what drives you is most important. My drivers might be changing right now. But I will always continue to be a domainer even if I'll do it as a side gig. The knowledge you have, stays with you.

I see developing the domains into a website right now a more attractive option. It takes time but low investment. It also takes time until it gets profitable, but once you get there it can be a steady source without significant amounts locked in. With names, I'd rater focus on long hold, keep the best and look to renew for a few years maybe until they sell - to the right end buyer.

There are always more possibilities than things we get to actually try.
 
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This is what really depressing , The current market bad and foggy situation , leading to very slow or no results in domain sales , as we see in sales thread no actions and excitements like it was before .
This main fatcor to depress you and let you think to change the direction .

.

I would not label it as depressing.

However it is definitely a situation that leads to temporary inability to create projections. (Edit: Predictability is vital for any business). But of course, for some domainers who had worse results than me, it could even be very depressing.

One thing is clear though - in the world, things aren't going up.

And in business, there is no static situation. You're either going up, or going down. Same is with the economy.

And to me it is really not looking as if it's going up anytime soon.
 
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