For some reason, I've been thinking of quitting domaining recently. Yeah - go figure. I'm sharing the thoughts, feel free to share yours.

[twiki]

That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.

 

[phaethon]

You are absolutely correct -- its not the same as it was. I know exactly where you're coming from.

I dont know what it is, blame it on the global pandemic or the globally depressed economy. I really dont know. All I know is I've been in this domaining business for 22 years and never, ever have I experienced over a year of no sales. Last sale (was a lease) was April 2021. Before that August 2020. TONS of inquiries though. Same number, perhaps slightly lower number of inquiries but sales - gone. Its a stage-1 drought.

Some give advice to do outbound. I have never done outbound in 22 years and wont start now. Too much chance of being labeled a spammer and domainers already get a bad rap for being "squatters". So no, no outbound. I've always done very well, happily well, listing domains at marketplaces and auction sites. It doesnt seem to be working anymore. My names arent stellar domain names but they're also not pigeon crap either. The fact that they receive what I perceive to be legitimate offers tells me they're worth something, but not $10 or even $100. LOL.

So, I, too, have been considering exiting and that consideration didnt begin today, last month or even earlier this year. I've been contemplating it for at least a year now, waiting for the market to pick up... its beyond frustrating now.

Many guys think that domaining can be a full time job and have high hopes. For me is a side hustle. Buy only names you will keep at least for 10 years, auto renew or transfer if any good transfer deals. If you don't get the price you want over eight years, reduce the price for the next two years to cover the loss if possible. In the meantime if they are good names, their value will increase and it's likely that you will get- at least- your money back.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. Not just with domains, with everything.

Exactly

 

[Embrand]

And the world is not ending.

I wouldn't be too sure about that

 

[twiki]

I wouldn't be too sure about that

Have a little faith!

 

[inforg]

I’ve gotten in and out of domaining a few times over the last 20+ years. I usually keep my core top names and then just kind of check out for a while. Keep up on renewals, cash a few sales, it’s an easy side hustle.

You can always scale back up later. Once you’ve found a profitable model and are able to identify quality, that skill set is locked in. You can always jump back in a little heavier whenever you want.

 

[kor]

You won't be able to quit this business because you like to make easy money.
This is just another post where you are making such reproaches. You panic because things are getting a little worse, so you try to make excuses and bluff to find a way out.

I don't think your personal business decisions get anyone excited.
And there is no one else on the forum who complains so often about bad sales and makes pessimistic predictions more often than you.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Wow, tough going over a year of no sales - did that make it easier to decide which names to renew and drop?

Domaining can feel like a banging head against the wall venture even in the best of times

I renew every domain which has ever had an inquiry in the past couple of years as I keep track of the domains I drop and sure enough, people will wait long for them to drop. I had one domain which I had an inquiry with a back and forth email discussion about it but never converted to a sale. A few years later, no more inquiries and little traffic - I dropped it. It was picked up by that person a month later. This was 12 years ago before drop catching pretty much grabbed everything.

I've also dropped domains without inquiries and they, too, were picked up. So the way I thought of it was if there was still a viable business use for the domain (wasnt an old trend) and there were inquiries then I renew it. If there werent any inquiries in years and there is still a trend with the keywords, possibly traffic (not bot traffic but I wonder about even bot traffic - people checking the domain daily for it to drop?) then I renew them too. It only costs $8.49 to renew (now thats increased ) Or I'll use NameLiquidate where I've had success getting something back for it and being content to "drop" / sell it at a fire-sale price.

 

[twiki]

I renew every domain which has ever had an inquiry in the past couple of years as I keep track of the domains I drop and sure enough, people will wait long for them to drop. I had one domain which I had an inquiry with a back and forth email discussion about it but never converted to a sale. A few years later, no more inquiries and little traffic - I dropped it. It was picked up by that person a month later. This was 12 years ago before drop catching pretty much grabbed everything.

I've also dropped domains without inquiries and they, too, were picked up. So the way I thought of it was if there was still a viable business use for the domain (wasnt an old trend) and there were inquiries then I renew it. If there werent any inquiries in years and there is still a trend with the keywords, possibly traffic (not bot traffic but I wonder about even bot traffic - people checking the domain daily for it to drop?) then I renew them too. It only costs $8.49 to renew (now thats increased ) Or I'll use NameLiquidate where I've had success getting something back for it and being content to "drop" / sell it at a fire-sale price.

The reason they don't sell is they're not good enough. It makes sense to keep those with inquiries but this doesn't mean those will sell. It depends on a number of factors. Trend, client, price etc.

The fact that a domain is captured after drop also doesn't tell much. Captured by DC? Also doesn't tell much, I've seen loads of crap being taken as well by DC lately.

All the domains I sell never had an inquiry on them. And I did sell quite a shitload (check sales reports).

If I lower offer and accepting offers, that won't result in a sale in most cases.

My suggestion is - get a better appraisal on your names and keep those valuable indeed.

Depending on your names (if they fit the appraisal profile), my tool in the signature might indicate whether one of them has a problem or not as it checks a number of things. If the evaluation result is low (below $800 or so), you might have an issue with the domain. It's not a set in stone rule but it;s a good indicator in general.

The appraiser software also helps me sift through my own lists of domains faster for the same reason. (Edit: it's getting improved a lot these days based on user feedback loop)

 

[phaethon]

The reason they don't sell is they're not good enough. It makes sense to keep those with inquiries but this doesn't mean those will sell. It depends on a number of factors. Trend, client, price etc.

The fact that a domain is captured after drop also doesn't tell much. Captured by DC? Also doesn't tell much, I've seen loads of crap being taken as well by DC lately.

All the domains I sell never had an inquiry on them. And I did sell quite a shitload (check sales reports).

If I lower offer and accepting offers, that won't result in a sale in most cases.

My suggestion is - get a better appraisal on your names and keep those valuable indeed.

Depending on your names (if they fit the appraisal profile), my tool in the signature might indicate whether one of them has a problem or not as it checks a number of things. If the evaluation result is low (below $800 or so), you might have an issue with the domain. It's not a set in stone rule but it;s a good indicator in general.

The appraiser software also helps me sift through my own lists of domains faster for the same reason. (Edit: it's getting improved a lot these days based on user feedback loop)

You can check Huge Domains portfolio- dumpster diving.. Some diamonds here and there in the garbage. Buyers who can afford paying high prices doesn't necessarily mean they have quality criteria.
They simply have the money to do it.

 

[sparks_lu]

On the contrary, I've only just got back into this.

It may not be a bad thing when people are leaving the market, if they can't find much value in the market or feel it's not worth it anymore. It probably means more "quality" drops, less competition in auctions and for backorders.

What's important is to only acquire high quality names and it's just like what Buffett's view of investing in companies. Acquire high quality names, hold it and be patient. Although this is a skill I'm still learning.

There will be lots up and downs but good quality portfolio will payoff in the long run.

I'm sure big players like HugeDomains, will probably never stop or slow down but be more aggressive when everyone else is giving up.

 

[NYJimbo]

When you finally do find a good one, Epik takes it from your account a month later, and another party gets the sale.

One more, in a LONG list, of reasons to dump Epik.

 

[twiki]

The one who has the money and buys today, maybe will not be able to sell that much soon; but on the long run, things will definitely pay out good. I plan to hold some .COMs that meet this criteria long-term. Definitely selling within a few years' time, whatever the number of years is. Will keep full retail price on them, auto renew.

TBH - there is something rather personal at play as well, which weights a lot. Perhaps Definitely more than the partial decline of the domain sales.

I think I need to explain it a bit now. I've been thinking a lot since starting this thread. About where I am now, and where life is taking me now. Which is mostly elsewhere.

My Dotible.com project is a life changer already.

Never had so much interest with something so early stage. Yet not even 1% of the stuff is live yet (it's in a ridiculous state so far). And it caters to multiple industries, domain investing etc is not even a primary target for the site, although I plan to serve such users just as well of course. But domaining is a tiny niche and there's not much money flowing around in paid services. ( I shamefully admit as well, I only have one paid subscription, which is Namebio).

Dotible is already quite visited and I've been repelling the bots aiming to grab bulk data for free lately.
(no, that won't work and will only get ya banned; simply get in touch via contact page and you'll get a good offer).

I also know what it is going to become. Not just a financial changer for me. But also something useful because of several factors, 1) decades of unpublished work on tools that are brought up, 2) tools that are NOT out there or can be improved in certain gaps in several industries (yes there are large gaps like that) and 3) It's built out of passion. The latter being a vital factor.

Also it is something where I see massive progress in short time, I can accomplish most per hour in comparison with anything else ever, and it's pure creation - like a form of art. Which feeds the brain so well. My domaining, though nice and profitable, doesn't match my past successes; AND it definitely doesn't match where this is going to. Although, for the time being domaining still pays a significant part of my living costs.

By comparison with domaining (quite a bit of work and investment, and some risk) running a successful tech startup is like printing money.

But it's tough to get it there. Well this time it's different than anything I've ever done in this line. I have no doubt it's getting there as I hold all the cards. Never had been drawn so many good cards at once.

So yeah, I'm biased and luck takes me in another direction. That's why I think nobody should be demoralized by me kinda quitting the mainstream.

Also, as a result of this: a) many of my domains will be cleared out, and b) the tools I use to snag the domains I sell will be (are being) made public via subscriptions (and some free). I'm positive they will make a difference for many domainers. And hopeful they'll use it.

Anyway, hope this makes things a bit more clear.

 

[phaethon]

One more, in a LONG list, of reasons to dump Epik.

Name Liquidate also seems dead. Not sure if you have a better experience..

 

[twiki]

Name Liquidate also seems dead. Not sure if you have a better experience..

Nope. Only sold like 2 names there for cheap, then I gave up.

 

[sparks_lu]

My Dotible.com project is a life changer already.

Never had so much interest with something so early stage. Yet not even 1% of the stuff is live yet (it's in a ridiculous state so far). And it caters to multiple industries, domain investing etc is not even a primary target for the site, although I plan to serve such users just as well of course. But domaining is a tiny niche and there's not much money flowing around in paid services. ( I shamefully admit as well, I only have one paid subscription, which is Namebio).

It's great to finish what you started. Getting deeper into the industry to solve real problems, that's real differentiation from what "normal" domainer's doing.

 

[.X.]

I’ve been there , done that , I did it for a little over 2 years , returned quite refreshed and made another pretty successful run . Now I am out . I retired about a month ago from my day job , I also retired from domaining , as far as buying inventory goes , I am holding inventory , but not actively looking or pursuing selling any of my domain inventory , I will let it sell as it sells, if it doesn’t sell , I will hold it .

It’s not a bad thing to step out, it actually did me a lot of good, break off from the riff raft and recalculate my goals in the industry and establish a forward plan when reentering .

I will always be around the domain industry , just as a onlooker now . I had a person ask me if I was over the domain addiction lol , I can truly say I am over the addiction , I still love the industry as much as I ever had though.

 

[zomainhacks]

Hey, don't be depressed. That was not my intent anyway.

It's not like I don't make money. I do.

But I'm also aware this is not the same as it was 1-2 years ago.

Who knows what the future holds. I'm just preemptive due to my business-formed instinct. (might be right, might be wrong)

The biggest problem I see now for my model is that clearance doesn't work anymore. I clear better and better names and get fewer and fewer sales, close to 0 in the last months.

But other domainers are still making good money and each one's portfolio is different. I'm talking just about my particular case and thoughts.

Market changed, that's a reality and I completely understand your point.

I still love too much domains and I really hope a prolonged stagflation will not burn everything.

I'm convinced there is a bottom segment which will be always profitable no matter the economy and I'm striving to find it.

Might be a wishful thinking but I'm still confortable with the risk involved and excited to become a better domainer.

 

[twiki]

Market changed, that's a reality and I completely understand your point.

I still love too much domains and I really hope a prolonged stagflation will not burn everything.

I'm convinced there is a bottom segment which will be always profitable no matter the economy and I'm striving to find it.

Might be a wishful thinking but I'm still confortable with the risk involved and excited to become a better domainer.

Good.

But TBH I think the bottom segment has went down the most.

I think you are better off playing the long game.

 

[Greek23]

I have learned a lot from your post since I became a member around 2 years ago. I think with .com price increases and people not renewing a certain percentage of their names because of this increase, will allow for domainers who have the eye, work ethic, and patience to buy names now when things are slowing down and economy is shaky right now, strike while there is blood in the streets. So either lighten up and pursue other projects, or hustle now and find the value that will come in next month when drops start coming post price increases. Just my opinion and I respect your decision and insights and whatever you do will be the best decision for yourself and your family (if you have one, not sure).
Best of luck and keep us posted.

PS: IMO the sales thread lack of reporting may not be a function of no sales, it may be a function of inexperienced comments/questions that clutter the thread. I personally have stopped reporting sales because it isn't worth the comments/questions that ensue from posting the sale. I have now posted on Twitter and enjoy this much better.

 

[zomainhacks]

Good.

But TBH I think the bottom segment has went down the most.

I think you are better off playing the long game.

Sorry, I've expressed badly what I wanted to say.

What I mean is that I'm convinced there is a segment that can perform well even under economic turmoil.

 

[twiki]

Sorry, I've expressed badly what I wanted to say.

What I mean is that I'm convinced there is a segment that can perform well even under economic turmoil.

You are correct on this. There are different buyer segments obviously.

However the trick is to make sure you make money overall, good pricing, perhaps outbound etc.

 

[redemo]

And the world is not ending.

I wouldn't be so sure about that mate!

 

[VadimK]

I like you a lot, @twiki , always read your posts with great interest and sometimes follow some advice as well. However, I have to admit, this post is quite controversial. Of course, it is absolutely normal and logical for anyone to choose a new path that you have a passion for / bring you more money / simply of a less hussle.
The thing is that you've been claiming on every second post here that you are perfect (and immediately!) spotting good names right away. You were saying you know exactly that they will sell at least for high XXX. Matter of fact you were claiming you leave behind tens of such names every day on dropped lists, just because you don't have time to deal with them.

Now, multiply this fact to a portfolio of a few thousands (if I am not mistaken you were going from a portfolio of 20k + to like 4000). So, with the skill mastered and a few thousands names in the portfolio of if you sell thru rate goes down from like 2% to like 0,5% due to market turmoil, it still shouldn't be a huge problem for you.

Not to make this post critical but contributive, I want to add that I actually don't agree with you on a claim that there are lots of useful dropped leftovers every night, on the domains market today. I've been watching them a lot, analyzing thousands. Extremely few, not even jewels, but simply something worth trying. Sure enough, like in a famous theory of a chimpanzee and typing machine, when eternity is given, she will once type ''War and Peace'' - same way lots of such leftovers will sell one day, but to me that day is so far, that no point to take this name.

For me, if I buy names low-cost (hand reg) I prefer going analyzing actual words, trends, niches, key-word popularity and invest in them, rather than pick ups from secondary markets (but I do try to pick up some good quality backorders with Dynadot, though).

With that being said, I definitely do appreciate your honesty and thoughts, cause you aren't scared to look controversial or even weak (which you are definitely not). Your posts are interesting to read and worth the time to reply.

Good luck!

 

[twiki]

I like you a lot, @twiki , always read your posts with great interest and sometimes follow some advice as well. However, I have to admit, this post is quite controversial. Of course, it is absolutely normal and logical for anyone to choose a new path that you have a passion for / bring you more money / simply of a less hussle.
The thing is that you've been claiming on every second post here that you are perfect (and immediately!) spotting good names right away. You were saying you know exactly that they will sell at least for high XXX. Matter of fact you were claiming you leave behind tens of such names every day on dropped lists, just because you don't have time to deal with them.

Now, multiply this fact to a portfolio of a few thousands (if I am not mistaken you were going from a portfolio of 20k + to like 4000). So, with the skill mastered and a few thousands names in the portfolio of if you sell thru rate goes down from like 2% to like 0,5% due to market turmoil, it still shouldn't be a huge problem for you.

Not to make this post critical but contributive, I want to add that I actually don't agree with you on a claim that there are lots of useful dropped leftovers every night, on the domains market today. I've been watching them a lot, analyzing thousands. Extremely few, not even jewels, but simply something worth trying. Sure enough, like in a famous theory of a chimpanzee and typing machine, when eternity is given, she will once type ''War and Peace'' - same way lots of such leftovers will sell one day, but to me that day is so far, that no point to take this name.

For me, if I buy names low-cost (hand reg) I prefer going analyzing actual words, trends, niches, key-word popularity and invest in them, rather than pick ups from secondary markets (but I do try to pick up some good quality backorders with Dynadot, though).

With that being said, I definitely do appreciate your honesty and thoughts, cause you aren't scared to look controversial or even weak (which you are definitely not). Your posts are interesting to read and worth the time to reply.

Good luck!

Hi, thanks for this.

Just a bit of clarification needed as you got it a bit wrong as I see you are confused. Maybe I haven't been clear.

1) Drops: Most domains I pick and sell are NOT taken fast at drop. I register them by hand, though I could use an API, but it's not needed. Sometimes I forget to do this and I get in one hour late. Names are still there in most cases (not all but a good part of that)

Which means, they fly well below the radar.

Which further means, I see value where others don't.

That's the reason there is no direct "competitor" for me in the sales thread regarding drops. So what I see as value, you might not, as well as others. (... Beauty in the eye of the beholder? )

Lately I've been focusing on certain niches.

For example I'm not currently taking any crypto, defi and stuff. I'm into too many niches, reducing niches to reduce portfolio size as well; so yeah, there's still plenty left.

I'm also ditching half from my own list for the day for the same reduction goals. Sometimes it's itching me to get it but I learned to resist the temptation.

There are others in niches where other people go for, but I'm not into those. You have to specialize in what you know and understand best.

2) My main drive now is that I find tech way more tempting. I always found that. It also has massive potential and far less risk for me, due to aces I have up my sleeve in tech (decades of code and experience).

3). I'm still making money with domains. And will continue to. But by my own standards, kind of high, it's not enough. I also reinvest less currently, as I have some costs to manage right now.

So I will reduce my portfolio a lot and move those $$$$$ into something else, where you don't double or triple your money but achieve much more, faster and with less risk. I also want to buy a house in the woods right now, part of the cash will go into that.

So... it ain't as you interpreted it. The whole thing.
----------------
Edit: I could have scaled this 2 x, 3x or more. But I decided not to. If you feel like I'm losing an opportunity, I can confirm that yes, I do lose domaining opportunities now - by choice. But I'll be gaining way more by the tech route.

Oh, and I'm planning to somehow offer my "interitance" further to other domainers. My tools, methods, even a daily drop list to look at via an subscription. Time will tell the format.

For example the appraisal tool in my sig. That's one important piece in a very large puzzle.

I made it years ago, improved it a lot over the years. Still improving today.

I made the code learn from data, but then the code taught me. I've used it so much until we got to actually agree both on most domains.

That's why I see value where others don't, I guess: I have probably been trained by the data itself in return. Which is totally unusual in this field.

But that doesn't make me the best domainer in the world, just one that does alright and has his own method.

 

[VadimK]

Hi, thanks for this.

Just a bit of clarification needed as you got it a bit wrong as I see you are confused. Maybe I haven't been clear.

1) Drops: Most domains I pick and sell are NOT taken fast at drop. I register them by hand, though I could use an API, but it's not needed. Sometimes I forget to do this and I get in one hour late. Names are still there in most cases (not all but a good part of that)

Which means, they fly well below the radar.

Which further means, I see value where others don't.

That's the reason there is no direct "competitor" for me in the sales thread regarding drops. So what I see as value, you might not, as well as others. (... Beauty in the eye of the beholder? )

Lately I've been focusing on certain niches.

For example I'm not currently taking any crypto, defi and stuff. I'm into too many niches, reducing niches to reduce portfolio size as well; so yeah, there's still plenty left.

I'm also ditching half from my own list for the day for the same reduction goals. Sometimes it's itching me to get it but I learned to resist the temptation.

There are others in niches where other people go for, but I'm not into those. You have to specialize in what you know and understand best.

2) My main drive now is that I find tech way more tempting. I always found that. It also has massive potential and far less risk for me, due to aces I have up my sleeve in tech (decades of code and experience).

3). I'm still making money with domains. And will continue to. But by my own standards, kind of high, it's not enough. I also reinvest less currently, as I have some costs to manage right now.

So I will reduce my portfolio a lot and move those $$$$$ into something else, where you don't double or triple your money but achieve much more, faster and with less risk. I also want to buy a house in the woods right now, part of the cash will go into that.

So... it ain't as you interpreted it. The whole thing.
----------------
Edit: I could have scaled this 2 x, 3x or more. But I decided not to. If you feel like I'm losing an opportunity, I can confirm that yes, I do lose domaining opportunities now - by choice. But I'll be gaining way more by the tech route.

Oh, and I'm planning to somehow offer my "interitance" further to other domainers. My tools, methods, even a daily drop list to look at via an subscription. Time will tell the format.

For example the appraisal tool in my sig. That's one important piece in a very large puzzle.

I made it years ago, improved it a lot over the years. Still improving today.

I made the code learn from data, but then the code taught me. I've used it so much until we got to actually agree both on most domains.

That's why I see value where others don't, I guess: I have probably been trained by the data itself in return. Which is totally unusual in this field.

But that doesn't make me the best domainer in the world, just one that does alright and has his own method.

Fair enough. That was my reply to a very initial post, I didn't read all the replies and conversation on this thread. Now I see you introduced your website, and will definitely take a detailed look.