Fake PayPal claim after payment for CCNYS.COM domain name

[Dondomainer]

I will not beat around the bush, this is the real buyer information.

Buyer Name: Milton Silber
Buyer Email: [email protected]
Transaction Amount: $850.00 USD
Transaction Date: Sep 4, 2016

( Phone Number : 347-668-9186 )

Buyer's Address:
183 wilson st
Brooklyn , NY 11211
United States

Claim datail.

The buyer has filed a chargeback with his or her credit card company stating that the buyer did not authorize the payment.

The credit card company has reversed the payment, and we've placed a temporary hold on the funds while we review this case. If this transaction is covered by protection against unauthorized payments, we'll lift the temporary hold and restore the funds to your account. If the transaction is not eligible, we'll return the funds to the buyer or the rightful owner.

For this transaction to be covered by protection against unauthorized payments, please provide proof that you shipped the item through an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page.

If the item is not a tangible good, this transaction is not eligible for protection against unauthorized payments. However, depending on the information you provide, we may be able to help you recover your funds by disputing the chargeback with the credit card company. Please provide us with information about your case. We'll let you know if we can dispute the chargeback with the credit card company.

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But what Mr Milton Silber forgets, is the reason of payment.

 

[Joe Styler]

I guess the obvious question would be. What would happen if the chargeback occured after 60 days when the domain has transferred? Do you "eat" the loss, or is it charged back to the seller?

we eat it, part of the reason to use us.

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

60 day locks after sale/transfer is not some new policy at all.

I am sure more reputable and larger markets like gd take some extra steps to protect against payment retractions such as chargebacks. much more so than ns or nc imo.. and then possibly escrow.com may go even a step further, given they seem to offer full seller protection for cb, and pay from their pocket if it hapens... so checking more deeply would only be in their own best interest.

its my undersanding that all auction payment processing departments are not created equal. and some are better than others, go some extra steps etc. that being said, paypal has fantastic security measures implemented too... anti fraud etc.. best in the world probably... it's only the biggest payment processor in the world.. but there is only so much anyone can do against cc chargebacks.

like stub said, if you want full protection against chargeback, your only way may well be escrow.com .. or others with full seller protection.. unless we are all missing something about that seller protection here.. perhaps @Jackson Elsegood from escrow can confirm this seller protection works like some here say it does, in case of a CC chargeback from buyer.

thanks.

All payments to a seller made through Escrow.com are safe from chargebacks and will not be reversed, even if the buyer tries to claim that they never received the domain (they have 6 months to do that with PayPal and most credit card companies).

 

[Joe Styler]

its too bad escrow.com does not offer paypal.
but if ecop offers it and alos offers seller protection asgainst chargeback, then this is an even better alternative than going through godaddy, cause as far as I know godaddy does not protect from chargebacks, and they just get you the domain back. but maybe @Joe Styler can confirm this? thank you.

GoDaddy clears the payment which is why it takes 5 days before the payment is made to the seller. One of the many things we do is make sure the money is valid for the sale. We have a pretty good team in place and a lot of experience with payment issues so we have very few as a result. If for some reason someone does a chargeback we are able to get the domain name back since it is with us and we know exactly what happened. The bottom line is using a marketplace with safety guards in place protects everyone so using something like GoDaddy or Escrow.com will protect you as the seller or buyer.

 

[Name Trader]

Just a comment about escrow.com, since a couple of people mentioned that. If they've paid you, they don't do a chargeback to you. It's almost the whole reason to use them in the first place. I do all my transactions with people I don't know, using escrow.com

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

Escrow.com protects you 100% from chargebacks.
In the event that a buyer levels a credit card or PayPal chargeback as you as a seller, Escrow.com will not reverse the transaction and will fight the chargeback on your behalf (and we're very good at doing this).

Cheers,
Jackson Elsegood
General Manager, Escrow.com

 

[ewallhost]

Better stay away from unverified Paypal Users.

 

[ZapNano]

This transaction still needs to be verified; it might constitute to be a fraudulent claims from a credit card holder. He claimed reason for chargeback is "un Authorized charges". So it's important to communicate with namecheap and Google about this situation.

 

[Dondomainer]

update

Paypal Say :

Is evident that this that this claim is an attempt to scam so we will dismiss this claim and also we will close the count of Mr Milton Silber.

From my side, I contacted to google [email protected] claiming misuse of their services .

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One last detail from this guy :

The name, phone, email and address are real.

His accent was from India ( young voice ) and he said it was an student.

no other domain under [email protected]

 

[BrandChimp]

Please explain why they are a nightmare? And whyo to use eCop?

rgds
stu

I have never been able to win any chargeback scams. Both physical and virtual goods. Tracking number, pictures, screenshots, any proof possible... they don't care.

eCop is quick and easy for low $xxx to low $x,xxx sales. They do escrow just like escrow.com but unlike escrow.com they accept paypal from other countries than US and Canada.

 

[alcy]

So you say that, I can lose money and domain ?

like I Said before, I know a place like godaddy, when buyer buys from you there, and they check payment then release it then you tranasfer domain to buyer at goddady, then buyer files chargeback, gd cannot usually help they say, so the money goes back to buyer but they can guarantee you the domain back.

what happens in a situation like this for direct sale... I am not sure.. this is why I always prefer to complete sales on something like godaddy auctions.. then at least you get your domain back. chargebacks on a place like godaddy would also be much more rare than direct purchase chargebacks, cause anyone with godaddy account is right off bat a bit more serious domainer, and won't want to mess too much with godaddy, losing their gd account from chargebacks etc.. but for direct paypal payment... you can get just about anybody..

I do not really use escrow.com or other escrow type services so I cannot comment on it.. but I presume CC funded payments through those can also go through chargebacks... and since it wouldn't be a godady type situation where escrow has no way to recover domain, well, maybe there is chnce of losing both money and domain there.

all in all, I try to stick to godaddy auctions for all sales. I recommend same to all others.

I am sure others will offer you more insight here on best steps to follow. I am merely pointing out this has not much to do with your view of what happened or ours.. where we all here know this isn't right. it has to do with the view his cc company takes. and that's always in his defense. and then you esentially have to defend yourself against that and prove otherwise.

all the best!

 

[cdboard]

fwiw, a whois check shows google as the registrar, not godaddy.

 

[fico]

I still don't understand why people still use paypal/cc for domain transaction ... you want to reduce fees but at the end you lose both domain and money

 

[BrandChimp]

Paypal is every seller's nightmare for sales over $100, be careful! Use eCop.com next time! They offer paypal escrow!

 

[alcy]

Just a comment about escrow.com, since a couple of people mentioned that. If they've paid you, they don't do a chargeback to you. It's almost the whole reason to use them in the first place. I do all my transactions with people I don't know, using escrow.com

oh.. I see what you mean.. so while the buyer may stil file CC chargeback .. they'll be pretty much filing it against escrow not you.. so it's like escrow seller protection.. when in case of chargeback, they pay from their own pocket. didn't think of it when I mentioned escrow and chargebacks. ty.

 

[DNVantage]

At NameCheap (NC), seller can list the domains they have in their NC account and buyer needs a NC account to receive the domain. Domain is moved automatically from seller's account to buyer's account. NC holds payment for 5 days before depositing sale funds into seller's account.

I have not explicitly checked with NC or NameSilo (NS) about chargeback. My guess is, like other major marketplaces, they must have payment checks in place but please clarify with NC/ NS support .

NC/NS are charging a decent % flat fee on sale! It better not be for just listing domain and automatically moving domain from one account to another. Payment escrow + Domain escrow for just 10%/7.5% is why I prefer NC/NS marketplaces.

Also, my understanding is, from Dec 1, as per new ICANN policy, domains will not be allowed to transfer away for 60 days if whois contact info changes for any reason. This should help the marketplace sales as buyer cannot just move the domain away and do a chargeback immediately.

 

[campout]

The name, phone, email and address are real.

His accent was from India

Well his name does not sound Indian to me at all.

 

[campout]

I'm thinking it's a case where someone gained access to a stranger's Paypal account in which case the chargeback would unfortunately for OP be legitimate.

Should be happy this is a domain that as far as I can tell is not worth anywhere near $850 (or maybe even $8.50?) But it still sucks because you thought that money was yours and now it's likely on its way back out.

One weird thing is the buyer's choice of domain. Why but a 5L Chinese when you could get a pronounceable 4L or something with reseller value on par with the $850?

 

[Name Trader]

i agree! it is due to absence of
I know your top man... but hey.. even top man can have a bad hair day haha.

yes I am glad its confirmed too. now if anyone ever gets payment reversed, they can always ask "whats up", and refer to this thread

cheers

I never have a bad hair day because I don't have any hair Why does a top man have the feeling that he's always sitting at the bottom of a pile of s***?

 

[Dondomainer]

@gipson So you get to keep the money?

yes.

 

[Name Trader]

GoDaddy clears the payment which is why it takes 5 days before the payment is made to the seller. One of the many things we do is make sure the money is valid for the sale. We have a pretty good team in place and a lot of experience with payment issues so we have very few as a result. If for some reason someone does a chargeback we are able to get the domain name back since it is with us and we know exactly what happened. The bottom line is using a marketplace with safety guards in place protects everyone so using something like GoDaddy or Escrow.com will protect you as the seller or buyer.

I guess the obvious question would be. What would happen if the chargeback occured after 60 days when the domain has transferred? Do you "eat" the loss, or is it charged back to the seller?

 

[Promaximus]

oh.. I see what you mean.. so while the buyer may stil file CC chargeback .. they'll be pretty much filing it against escrow not you.. so it's like escrow seller protection.. when in case of chargeback, they pay from their own pocket. didn't think of it when I mentioned escrow and chargebacks. ty.

This is correct. The buyer sends paypal payment to escrow.com, not your paypal account. Try doing a chargeback to escrow.com and the buyer/scammer will lose. Escrow.com goes through a strict verification process and probably has deep connections with the CC companies. I think it takes 7 days when paying with a CC through payapal. Imagine, they deal with 5-500k deals. The are going to make sure they don't get screwed.

Also, make sure these people have a good feedback rating and have been members of that venue for more than a year. I have done deals over $500 with paypal... but only with buyers with 100% feedback, a certain number of transactions, and more than one year on the venue that I am selling.

To be safe, anything over $250, use escrow.com or ecop.com or flippa escrow. You will probably lose some bids because people don't want to go through the trouble, but it is worth it.

Selling through Godaddy auctions or others is a good idea as well. GoDaddy probably use escrow.com as well or some other escrow company I would imagine to protect themselves.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Cdomains]

This is the reason I never, never, never use Paypal for domain transactions.

I always use Escrow/com for all transactions, even small ones.

Even if I have to pay the transaction fees entirely myself I still use Escrow/com for all domain transactions.

For transactions under about $7-800.00 the fee is about $25.

I have no problem paying such a relatively large fee for the peace of mind that comes with the knowledge that the transaction is final with no possibility for a charge-back later on, and the $ is safely mine.

 

[HKIBC]

I do not really use escrow.com or other escrow type services so I cannot comment on it.. but I presume CC funded payments through those can also go through chargebacks... and since it wouldn't be a godady type situation where escrow has no way to recover domain, well, maybe there is chnce of losing both money and domain there...

Be that as it may, an escrow intermediary shoulders the risks, not the seller. An escrow transaction is closed (i.e. funds paid out to seller) only after either the escrow company or the buyer confirms receipt of the goods (e.g. domain). Afterwards any chargebacks are resolved between the buyer and escrow company.

 

[alcy]

sounds like you have something to rely on for your case!
not sure how he can prove he did not authorize this, if you can show screenshot of domain now sitting under his name. of course any of above can be argued to, but it's a solid start for you imo. gl.

as long as buyers use credit card, they can always file chargeback. it's not a paypal thing. it can happen with any service. including a godady sale etc. gd told me there are no guarantees when comes to chargeback. the only guarantee they can pretty much offer you is that they'll make sure you get your domain back (cause its on their registrar after sale). not sure about places like escrow, but I assume its same principle. problems are credit cards. be it through paypal or directly. then there is always chance of chargeback.