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Even experts are investing in new gTLDs

Labeled as new gtlds in gTLD Discussion started by Arpit131, May 5, 2015.

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  1. Arpit131

    Arpit131 Top Member VIP

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    Konstantinos Zournas of OnlineDomain shares his investment in new gTLDs that amounts to approximately $50,000.
    He shares on his blog, that he has bought 565 new gTLDs so far, for a total of $50,000 which averages to about $88 per domain name.
    He has sold two new gTLDs : 360.agency for $2,500 and city.tips for 8,500 Euros.

    Check out what the experts like him are buying and selling.
    The article may be found here.

    As per my personal experience, I happened to speak to some people who recently started in Domaining, got lured by the new gTLDs and their highest flips are among the new gTLDs that they have sold for over $2,000.
    I see some bright light here, for them. Perhaps they would do even better when they switch to .COMs! Good Luck to them.

    How many flips have you made in new gTLDs?
    Any experience that you would like to share with the community?
     
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  2. Hybrid Names

    Hybrid Names Top Member VIP

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    He sold two domains at very good price

    Good Luck to him
     
  3. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    How do you see bright light in losing money? If he believed in that bright light, his buying would reflect that. He's buying less and less as time goes on, not more. Over the last 7 months, only a little over 4 domains a month. That's very telling. Read the comments over there. Selling only 2 out of 565 domains. When your renewal costs are more than your sales, that's not exactly a good plan. I don't see anything good in the stats posted.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  4. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Top Member VIP

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    Acquisition costs were $50 K
    Any idea about renewal costs ?
     
  5. billp3

    billp3 Established Member

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    Putting money into new gTLD's is pure speculation (not investing) at this point.
     
  6. kawalsukhi

    kawalsukhi Top Member VIP

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    If he invest $50 k in buying 565 .com high end domains atleast he could sold half of it the next day with more heavy prices!!

    Anyways good luck to him for selling the left 563 gTLDs!
    Its sure and certain he would required to renew atleast 100 next year same day!!:xf.wink::xf.wink:
     
  7. BostonDomainer

    BostonDomainer Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I invested heavily in the .network with some of the top keywords suitable for the extension.
    ...and when that "point" comes... you're too late. Pure speculation, as you put it, is investing; it simply means one has a higher risk tolerance.
     
  8. vivaldi

    vivaldi Nothing personal VIP

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    Anyone into this knows of all the high profiles who speculate in new g's. And I do wonder why he didn't post some of his best ones.

    If you want to earn big money you need to take risks, simple as that.
     
  9. vivaldi

    vivaldi Nothing personal VIP

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    Those who bought premium .com's in the 90's only to drop them after one year since there were few sales can't be happy. Do you think everyone are so stupid that they expect a good ROI after one year in this?
     
  10. mhdoc

    mhdoc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    An investor I knew advised putting 20% of your money into each of five different "buckets" of risk. On one end was your super safe, cash equivalent fund such as CD's. At the other end was your "Roll the dice" money.

    The problem I saw was people didn't understand risk well. They thought they were moving from the least risky bucket to the next higher risk level. Looking at what they invested in, I thought they jumped all the way to most risky.

    I also saw a banker quoted as saying bankers get rich by lending where the perceived risk is much higher than the actual risk.

    I think all of these apply to domain "investing" these days and everone has to figure out which work for them. It certainly makes for interesting times.
     
  11. D. Wells

    D. Wells Top Member PRO VIP

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    So if an "expert" jumps off a bridge I'm suppose to jump too? Domainers get too caught up in what the so-called "experts" are doing....
     
  12. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There is fine line between investing and speculation :)
    The problem is that domainers are gambling, it's not the same thing.

    I think many domainers are actually hoping to resell their names fast enough, simply because they don't have adequate funding for the next 5 years and will not be able to sustain losses.
    Holding a portfolio will drain your wallet when you are making few or no sales.

    I would even make a case for selling early, if you can.
    What we have seen with other extensions, is that they don't appreciate over time, it's the opposite.
    The best time to sell is early, when they are freshly released and there is initial excitement (and hype).
    See what happened with .mobi: domains formerly valued in the 6-figure range have become worthless.

    But today, there is no enthusiasm for the new extensions. No hype.
    I think the outlook is grim.
    If consumers are not interested now, it's unlikely the mood will change significantly over time.
    People should have been buying new TLDs like crazy if it's such a brilliant idea...
    Why hope for a secondary market when there is no primary market.

    This kind of advice doesn't apply well to domaining, because domain names are illiquid assets vs the financial instruments that can be traded, bought, sold, redeemed more or less efficiently.

    Simply put: there are few TLDs that are investment-grade. And I mean .com and mature ccTLDs. Not new extensions.
    The rest is speculation gambling.
     
  13. brandnow

    brandnow Top Member VIP

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    I agree that buying ngtlds are a form of gambling.

    Fortunately, I am not a high roller when it comes to risky investments. I have found it better to invest slowly and wisely and really limit your budget. I have been so tempted to purchase "good" ngtld domains with renewal costs. Thank goodness I have resisted, and instead focused on inexpensive and premium quality ones that I plan to hang on to for 10+ years if need be.

    I think some domaineers are being outright scammed or tricked by these new registries into wasting boatloads of money on insanely high renewal fees for regular domains on some extensions and out of this world costs for so-called "premium" names. But just like buying cigarettes, if you're an adult then you can choose to make your own decisions to buy or not. :D
     
  14. mhdoc

    mhdoc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    "This kind of advice doesn't apply well to domaining, because domain names are illiquid assets vs the financial instruments that can be traded, bought, sold, redeemed more or less efficiently."

    I guess I wasn't clear enough that the kind of things he put in his "Roll the dice" bucket were a LONG way from liquid :) You can make a killing buying the tails of real estate contracts and holding them in a self directed IRA. When/if the note gets paid off early the payoff is all tax sheltered. Kind of hard to pay the rent with one though.
     
  15. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    more hype, without his-story
     
  16. billp3

    billp3 Established Member

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    I disagree. You can still get started today in .com and make great ROI.

    True, but the more proper terminology should be used when talking about new gTLDs, especially when newcomers read threads like these.

    I'm all for taking risks, but I think it will be a while (if ever) before the time comes that new gTLD's sell on a scale anywhere near .com. And when the point comes, you'll still be able to make money because it's an inefficient market.
     
  17. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    I get a good ROI after one year of buying .coms. And for you to actually post that, you have it in your head these are going to turn out like .com. Hold them, they're not worth much now and then sometime in the future they'll be worth something. We'll see how well that strategy works out.

    50k then about 20K renewals - 70K, sold 12K. That's a lot of ground to make up just to break even. Thought it was a good blog post and probably indicative of the way things are going for most who bought hundreds/thousands of these. Probably losing money. And then will probably lose more waiting for that 5 years thinking somehow all the past arguments against these are somehow wrong.

    Or, you could simply buy good .coms on the Aftermarket just like all the "high profiles" you're talking about do. You have a much better chance investing into a known extension with a proven history than one most will never hear of and where there is just way too much supply.

    As far as high profile, if you're meaning the person who wrote the blog post:

    February-March 2014 (2 months): 335 domains
    April-May 2014 (2 months): 139 domains
    June-September 2014 (4 months): 60 domains
    October 2014 - April 2015 (7 months): 31 domains

    Averaged out per month:
    167.5 domains a month
    69.5 domains a month
    15 domains a month
    4.4 domains a month

    Notice how that's trending down? Big time. Going from 167 new domains a month to 4, looks like a loss of enthusiasm to me.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  18. Fliper

    Fliper Established Member

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    When I see new gtld renewal prices then the only reason that comes to mind is that the prices are set high to eliminate domainers profit or even eliminate domainers. So, I will never invest in them.
     
  19. cocaseco

    cocaseco Top Member VIP

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    All true, but I see domaining as a lot more like gambling and just like in gambling you shouldn't be betting your rent money or your kids food. but if you have the nut covered and feel lucky, go for it. Somebody is going to win on the new gTLD's. Beyond that the only other thing we know is the you can't win if you don't play.

    As for the guy decreasing his sales of course they would decline as the time went on, so did the domain quality. Day 1 lot of opportunity, day 200 not so much. Besides he sold less than half a percent of his portfolio and he has recouped 16% of his investment. He doesn't need to sell all 500+ of his domains. At the current run rates if he sells only 14 more domains, He has recouped his investment and still has over 500 names on the balance sheet. That same balance sheet that he can borrow against to potentially fund more domains etc. To pay the reg fees alone, he simply needs to sell a few each year. The guy has a record of selling domains, so I don't think the thought of selling just slightly more than one domain a month for the next year unnerves him. In all likelihood he will do better than this scenario and will have positive cash flow from these gTLD's alone for many years. If in the end he still has to dumb 400 of them, he made a better return than many investments today, and the balance will be the basis for an operating loss deduction for the better years.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  20. silentg

    silentg Top Member VIP

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    So someone has to own a blog to become a gtld / domain expert?
     
  21. nomen

    nomen Top Member VIP

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    Not sure if you read his blog or not but he seems very much expert to me.
     
  22. cocaseco

    cocaseco Top Member VIP

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    Or sleep at a Holiday Inn Express....your choice.
     
  23. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Top Member VIP

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    2 thoughts, 1 positive, 1 negative :

    - He says he turned down several offers. If by accepting those he would have about broken even, then his investment is likely safe.

    - When an expert with years of experience plus enough capital to invest plus inside info plus connections plus past clients lined up can only show $10 K in proceeds vs $50 K in acquisitions and $20K in renewals, what chances does an amateur have ? LOL
     
  24. hawkeye

    hawkeye Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Haven't you noticed this before now? Been a benchmark for 'many' for awhile now. Go figure..
     
  25. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert VIP

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    A good gTLD is worth the investment...
    A bad gTLD is not...

    It's interesting how much this topic stirs the nest.

    There will never be a gTLD worth more than .COM unless it benefits SERP, like domain hacks do.
     

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