new gtlds Even experts are investing in new gTLDs

[Arpit131]

Konstantinos Zournas of OnlineDomain shares his investment in new gTLDs that amounts to approximately $50,000.
He shares on his blog, that he has bought 565 new gTLDs so far, for a total of $50,000 which averages to about $88 per domain name.
He has sold two new gTLDs : 360.agency for $2,500 and city.tips for 8,500 Euros.

Check out what the experts like him are buying and selling.
The article may be found here.

As per my personal experience, I happened to speak to some people who recently started in Domaining, got lured by the new gTLDs and their highest flips are among the new gTLDs that they have sold for over $2,000.
I see some bright light here, for them. Perhaps they would do even better when they switch to .COMs! Good Luck to them.

How many flips have you made in new gTLDs?
Any experience that you would like to share with the community?

 

[vivaldi]

People should have been buying new TLDs like crazy if it's such a brilliant idea...

Because it is the mass of people that make great investments? No, they don't.

 

[vivaldi]

I get a good ROI after one year of buying .coms. And for you to actually post that, you have it in your head these are going to turn out like .com. Hold them, they're not worth much now and then sometime in the future they'll be worth something. We'll see how well that strategy works out.

50k then about 20K renewals - 70K, sold 12K. That's a lot of ground to make up just to break even. Thought it was a good blog post and probably indicative of the way things are going for most who bought hundreds/thousands of these. Probably losing money. And then will probably lose more waiting for that 5 years thinking somehow all the past arguments against these are somehow wrong.

Or, you could simply buy good .coms on the Aftermarket just like all the "high profiles" you're talking about do. You have a much better chance investing into a known extension with a proven history than one most will never hear of and where there is just way too much supply.

As far as high profile, if you're meaning the person who wrote the blog post:

February-March 2014 (2 months): 335 domains
April-May 2014 (2 months): 139 domains
June-September 2014 (4 months): 60 domains
October 2014 - April 2015 (7 months): 31 domains

Averaged out per month:
167.5 domains a month
69.5 domains a month
15 domains a month
4.4 domains a month

Notice how that's trending down? Big time. Going from 167 new domains a month to 4, looks like a loss of enthusiasm to me.

Thanks for saying what I have in my head... Geez. They are not the new .com.
I take it you know only one thing, flipping .com's. That's great but a serious investor spread the risks in ones portfolio. It's great to buy good .com's if you know what you are doing but at the same time it's not wise to put all your assets into the same basket.

Those who don't speculate in the new g's fail to understand that it is much harder to get good names now than at the start. The competition are harder and the registries are smarter.

 

[wot]

Haven't you noticed this before now? Been a benchmark for 'many' for awhile now. Go figure..

I had a domain blog and I was an expert, now I no longer have the the blog and I am now an ex pert!

 

[JB Lions]

I take it you know only one thing, flipping .com's. That's great but a serious investor spread the risks in ones portfolio. It's great to buy good .com's if you know what you are doing but at the same time it's not wise to put all your assets into the same basket.

If that basket is a .com basket, it makes perfect sense since it's #1, there is no wondering or debate on that. You can have a diversified portfolio by investing in good keywords/domains in many different categories in that .com basket.

That $50,000 spent on new gtlds, would have been better spent on good .coms in the Aftermarket. Short term, long term, any term, it's a better investment.

 

[mad409]

The reason for the slow down with the investor within the article, even myself is because of the recent trend of massive high reg fees. During the first launches you could reg a premium at the normal reg fee. Sure some went to auction but many didn't.

Now, one year later, another example, you can't reg even reg a .video LLL for less than $150 US per year and if you search a decent term it really jumps. Another example:

app.video
3,375.00 USD
Renew: 3,375.00 USD

Those who got in early and are holding like myself have made a better long term investment than anyone that's suckered into these new high purchase and renewal fees.

So as explained within the article his drop in purchases is the same as many, up charging has gotten out of hand. As always JMO...

 

[vivaldi]

If that basket is a .com basket, it makes perfect sense since it's #1, there is no wondering or debate on that. You can have a diversified portfolio by investing in good keywords/domains in many different categories in that .com basket.

That $50,000 spent on new gtlds, would have been better spent on good .coms in the Aftermarket. Short term, long term, any term, it's a better investment.

Of course you can and probably should but it's still not wise to only invest in the same product. No serious investor do that regardless of industry and how good things are working out for the moment.

 

[mad409]

Of course you can and probably should but it's still not wise to only invest in the same product. No serious investor do that regardless of industry and how good things are working out for the moment.

A portfolio that includes a variety of securities so that the weight of any security is small. The risk of a well-diversified portfolio closely approximates the systematic risk of the overall market, and the unsystematic risk of each security has been diversified out of the portfolio.

 

[JB Lions]

Of course you can and probably should but it's still not wise to only invest in the same product. No serious investor do that regardless of industry and how good things are working out for the moment.

For the moment? So something is going to happen where .com isn't #1? And it's not the same product. Product.com is different than brand.com different than geo.com etc. Anything can go with it, it doesn't get more diversified than that. I have .coms in many different categories.

I'm talking about investing in good keywords in a "sure thing" type of extension vs. investing in good keywords in maybe or probably not extensions. There is no debate if .com is going to make it, in development, in that people will know it. There is with these new extensions.

 

[vivaldi]

For the moment? So something is going to happen where .com isn't #1? And it's not the same product. Product.com is different than brand.com different than geo.com etc. Anything can go with it, it doesn't get more diversified than that. I have .coms in many different categories.

I'm talking about investing in good keywords in a "sure thing" type of extension vs. investing in good keywords in maybe or probably not extensions. There is no debate if .com is going to make it. There is with these new extensions.

.com is the product. You never know, no one can be 100% certain. One indivudial don't decide the market. Domain names will stop to exist one day too, it's not like domain names are needed for basic survival. I take it you have no experience in investment other than in .com because if you did you would understand that things can and will change regardless of you emotions. Something that needs to be calculated for.

Exactly there is a debate if new g's are going anywhere hence the big risk and also the big upside. Good investors spread their risks over various assets. The investors who don't might learn it the hard way or just have luck surviving the years needed.

 

[GameOfBones]

I think a better strategy is to try to use your domains to make money. Build website and do arbitrage. Buying and holding and renewing causes most people to lose money. Think of the hours you have to put into it. Is it really worth it?

I just woke up so maybe I am talking nonsnese.

 

[Kate]

Because it is the mass of people that make great investments? No, they don't.

No, the mass of people don't invest in domain names, they just use them.
This is where the problem is.
It's always easier to sell domain names in extensions that are popular with the masses. Domaining 101.
If people balk at using new extensions, buying them for regfee, what is the likelihood that they will want to buy one on the aftermarket.
The odds are stacked against you as an investor.

It's been a year since the new extensions were released. Where are they know ? Where are all those prominent end users ? The advertising campaigns ?
I know, I know. Give it some more time. But do not expect major changes in five years.

I have lots of respect for Konstantinos but I am a tad surprised that he spent so much money on new extensions. He must have a healthy budget for mainstream extensions

 

[Fancy.domains]

Hello,

How can anyone of us KNOW whether new gTLDs will be (more-or-less) valuable or accepted by end-users in the future? Not many of us could predict the future for .COM and .NET in 1995! Most of us did not even care... Or am I wrong?

I have been writing about it before, but I have sold +20 new gTLDs to both domainers and end-users. I will continue to do that

 

[NameFit]

I think we always we have to look at 'who is the consumer, which is basically site visitors'. Any non-com TLD, when you advertise, you have to focus on the extension - because when the person looks at your extension, .net, .cc or whatever - hm....they must be some business and there is another and possibly better business under .com because .com is in everyone's mind. In the mind of the user, it does not instill the 'instant trust/faith' in the business if it is not .com. There is some inferiority built in. You just cannot compare the .com and non .com - there is difference of perception and that perception means a lot and as some say 'perception is everything' .

Another factor, I am sure if you give your address as .net, the user will try going to .com site which most likely exists. And will at least try to explore if they offer same or better services. After seeing your ad outside home or on tv, by the time they get to home/computer, they probably will not remember it was .com, .net, .co or something else - and they will type .com as that is 'default' extension. As a non .com site, you are just helping drive traffic to a rival's .com site

Another consumer point - all these gTLDs released are going to cause more and more confusion in the minds of users and .com will establish it identity further - if there is still something left. Value of .com's will still increase more and in a system when value and hence price of a commodity goes up, the value/prices of other commodities goes down. It is not that in future, we are going to get increased number of users significantly. I do not know the numbers, but I think internet usage is at very high anyways and is almost at peak in developed nations where the eCommerce business is done at the highest rate. Other countries are picking up, but will never reach any numbers close to developed nations. How much money Facebook makes from developing nations? do not think much. What I said about number of users not going up significantly, I would say the same thing about the number of businesses also (not) going up. Name is just a name and it is not a business. Name does not establish/spawn a new user or a new business - it just 'represents' a business. Businesses are continuously evolving, while new businesses are coming up, others are winding down as well.

I think there are plenty of .com's still available and will continue so - rate of dropped names has not gone down in past 15 years of so, if I have noticed. Not sure what the exact numbers are, out of about 115 Million .coms' registered, less than 5% have active websites. What does it mean, taking out few percentage points for under development, 90%+ are for sale. So plenty of sellers, and plenty of names also available - thanks to the multiple meanings/connotations of the same English word and tons of English words and 26 letters of alphabet. And when you get creative with the combinations, letters and words alike, there is no shortage of .com names still available to register.

Also, now look at the history, if you compare at the pricing of .com and .net - there is a huge difference in pricing. Actually the price of anything tells you how popular one thing is/how widely used it is. I would say .com commands a 10 times pricing than a .net. So if .com and .net were released at the same time, and there is so much difference in the pricing now, do you think other gTLDs will have any significant value in future? On the related note, every country has their own TLDs. As a .com seller, I have sold number of .coms to businesses which already had their extensions .co.uk, or .in or others.. Because they started with their own country extensions thinking that uses in their country users will type the country extension, but that did not turn out to be the case. As a business, even as I have an established and successful business in my country and a website under my country extension, I definitely want a .com - if not directly used, at least the traffic should be directed to my country website. I definitely do not want to lose type-in traffic. Instead of searching in Google and getting pages and pages of 'advertised' results, people just type in the website name in the browser - 'with a .com'.

To summarize, I would say to sellers/resellers which most of us here, besides just being visionary, look at the history of names, which is not more than 30 years old, and always think with the mind of a consumer and always see with the eyes of the consumer.

 

[vivaldi]

No, the mass of people don't invest in domain names, they just use them.
This is where the problem is.
It's always easier to sell domain names in extensions that are popular with the masses. Domaining 101.
If people balk at using new extensions, buying them for regfee, what is the likelihood that they will want to buy one on the aftermarket.
The odds are stacked against you as an investor.

It's been a year since the new extensions were released. Where are they know ? Where are all those prominent end users ? The advertising campaigns ?
I know, I know. Give it some more time. But do not expect major changes in five years.

I have lots of respect for Konstantinos but I am a tad surprised that he spent so much money on new extensions. He must have a healthy budget for mainstream extensions

Who ever said it was the easy way? The easy way is ccTLD's and .com. The mass moves slowly, now is not an exception.

 

[RogueWriter]

Same thread different titles, just about.

 

[biggie]

So someone has to own a blog to become a gtld / domain expert?

Not sure if you read his blog or not but he seems very much expert to me.

if you don't know much or are trying to learn, then anybody can be an expert....who knows more than you.

what you seek is expertise, from the experienced and after you examined the explanations and examples of execution..... only then have you exposed your mind where you can begin to explore for yourself.

puff, puff, pass

 

[JB Lions]

.com is the product. You never know, no one can be 100% certain. One indivudial don't decide the market. Domain names will stop to exist one day too, it's not like domain names are needed for basic survival. I take it you have no experience in investment other than in .com because if you did you would understand that things can and will change regardless of you emotions. Something that needs to be calculated for.

Exactly there is a debate if new g's are going anywhere hence the big risk and also the big upside. Good investors spread their risks over various assets. The investors who don't might learn it the hard way or just have luck surviving the years needed.

I don't think you're quite grasping this. You never know? You don't know that .com is #1? One individual? What are you even talking about? Try millions.

You take it I have no experience in investment when every year I spend x and then make multiple x in return? You asked me about investment other than .com. Yes. Not for the last 2 years, only .com. When I first started out .us and .me, random other ones, but I made money with all of them. But, I knew these new extensions would compete with these, not .com.

You keep talking about good investors but I don't think you know what that means.

So if somebody doesn't invest in new gtlds they're not good investors? Under Vivaldi's book of Domain Investing, is there a certain number or percentage one must invest in? Do I need to invest in every new gtld? 10% of them? Or is there some magic number like 20 of them? Should I go to your site and invest of some you posted about? I was checking your .club post:

addressbars.club
email-bankruptcy.club

Are you serious? There are people around that gather and form clubs to talk about address bars and email-bankruptcy, a term I had to Google?

I don't put money into what I consider second rate. I know none of these have a chance of touching what I invest in. I invest in the best. The only thing I need to do is get good keywords on one side of that dot. With most of these, you need both sides. You don't get this based on the .club examples I just posted. Those make no sense. Can you make money with some of these new ones? Or course, some people. Those who focus on great keywords that make sense, in the right order, have a better chance.

It's a very simple way I do things. I diversify in the best. You can diversify in second rate, maybes. You can have some .coms in there, I get that. But I go back to that $50,000. You can spend that all on new gtlds, I could spend all that on Aftermarket .coms. I will have a better portfolio from that, I will sell more domains and make more money. There's always going to be a market for good .coms.

 

[vivaldi]

I don't think you're quite grasping this. You never know? You don't know that .com is #1? One individual? What are you even talking about? Try millions.

You take it I have no experience in investment when every year I spend x and then make multiple x in return? You asked me about investment other than .com. Yes. Not for the last 2 years, only .com. When I first started out .us and .me, random other ones, but I made money with all of them. But, I knew these new extensions would compete with these, not .com.

You keep talking about good investors but I don't think you know what that means.

So if somebody doesn't invest in new gtlds they're not good investors? Under Vivaldi's book of Domain Investing, is there a certain number or percentage one must invest in? Do I need to invest in every new gtld? 10% of them? Or is there some magic number like 20 of them? Should I go to your site and invest of some you posted about? I was checking your .club post:

addressbars.club
email-bankruptcy.club

Are you serious? There are people around that gather and form clubs to talk about address bars and email-bankruptcy, a term I had to Google?

I don't put money into what I consider second rate. I know none of these have a chance of touching what I invest in. I invest in the best. The only thing I need to do is get good keywords on one side of that dot. With most of these, you need both sides. You don't get this based on the .club examples I just posted. Those make no sense. Can you make money with some of these new ones? Or course, some people. Those who focus on great keywords that make sense, in the right order, have a better chance.

It's a very simple way I do things. I diversify in the best. You can diversify in second rate, maybes. You can have some .coms in there, I get that. But I go back to that $50,000. You can spend that all on new gtlds, I could spend all that on Aftermarket .coms. I will have a better portfolio from that, I will sell more domains and make more money. There's always going to be a market for good .coms.

I'm talking about spreading ones risks however you fail to understand that. No one needs to speculate in new gTLD's for what I care. Real estate, vintage candy, old whiskey. Putting every thing into the same basket is dangerous and stupid. New gTLD's happens to be one of my high risk investments at the moment. In 2008 I bought stocks for all my money and that was stupid even if it made me lots of money.

Shared bulk searches from different word lists, do you think I cleaned them all from the poor words? Obviously not. Took the ones I wanted and shared what's left without apprasing and sorting them for others. Made me some money and some people happy until the moderator closed the thread.

Can I make money with the new ones, yeah of course. Can I lose money, yep it is a high risk investment.

I do buy a lot of .com's and ccTLD's, much more than new gTLD's. And I think that good domain names in general are undervalued.

To be fair it's not always be a good market .com's. Domain names is not an eternal thing. Maybe they will stick around during our lifetime, maybe not. No one knows hence this is why I spread the risks over various assets.

 

[JB Lions]

I'm talking about spreading ones risks however you fail to understand that. No one needs to speculate in new gTLD's for what I care. Real estate, vintage candy, old whiskey. Putting every thing into the same basket is dangerous and stupid.

We're talking about domains, not that other stuff. I'm talking about .com. You keep using words like risk, dangerous and stupid but I'm still waiting for you to tell me how .com (basket) is any of those. Be specific. And I just told you many times now that my .coms are spread out with many different categories. You just said new gtlds are a high risk investment. They are, because they're up for debate. .com isn't. There is no discussion if it's going to make it or not. Or if there will be development etc. In talking about risk, tell me a safer extension to invest in than .com. Investing in the safest, most well known, one with the highest sales. vs. high risk, unknown extensions.

You simply have to look at sales - http://www.dnjournal.com/ytd-sales-charts.htm

Of all the extensions we have available today, 93 out of the top 100 are .com

As far as domains and our lifetime and I've seen people bring this up before. They're not going anywhere. Websites aren't going anywhere and they're always going to need an address (domain). Phone numbers, we still use them. You live somewhere, house, apt etc. you need an address.

 

[vivaldi]

We're talking about domains. I'm talking about .com. How is that a risky extension? It's not at all, you can't give me a reason why it is. And I just told you many times now that my .coms are spread out with many different categories. You just said new gtlds are a high risk investment. They are, because they're up for debate. .com isn't. There is no discussion if it's going to make it or not. Or if there will be development etc.

It's risky to be exclusive to anything, in your case by having only .com's makes your basket vulnerable even if you have names spread into different categories which anyone should have. Note that I'm NOT saying this will happen but if the new gTLD's became the norm in a few years you would lose a lot of money.

No one knows how this .whatever adventure will end.

 

[JB Lions]

It's risky to be exclusive to anything, in your case by having only .com's makes your basket vulnerable even if you have names spread into different categories which anyone should have. Note that I'm NOT saying this will happen but if the new gTLD's became the norm in a few years you would lose a lot of money.

No one knows how this .whatever adventure will end.

That post is straight insanity. To think that a good .com basket is vulnerable to some second rate extensions is laughable. They're not anywhere on that same level where they can compete. You have to pretend the market doesn't exist to believe that. I just posted a link to sales, let's pretend that doesn't exist. I know, I know, let's wait 5 or 10 years right. Because somehow niche extensions will turn into general ones? Or the general ones like click, link or xyz, will be more in demand?

To your post below. Yes, I'm doomed because I invest in extensions that actually sell, haha. The blog writer will make it thru with his other investments, like the .coms he has and some other ones. Not the new gtlds he's losing money on. I'll be fine with mine, because I don't invest in crap, niche extensions that have little to no demand. There's nothing emotional about it, we have reality, numbers to look at.

 

[vivaldi]

That post is straight insanity. You're just not getting it and haven't shown any signs that you will.

Your stubbornness and emotional bond to your investments could be your fall. The blog writer will make it through any possible scenario (except domain names stopped being used) you won't.

 

[forge]

null

 

[Kate]

Note that I'm NOT saying this will happen but if the new gTLD's became the norm in a few years you would lose a lot of money.

Is this what you believe ? Personally I prefer to save money than take a huge risk.

While nobody can predict the future for sure, looking at the present (and the past) provides a lot of clues.
I am not seeing the new extensions gaining traction now. Apparently end users are not embracing them. What's holding them up ? Could it be that new extensions are not a so great idea ? That hardly anybody wants them ? .com has grown as much as all new TLDs combined. That says it all.

Even assuming a science fiction scenario, that people start buying new extensions only, the 'old' extensions will remain dominant for a long time, simply because of the accumulated volume of registrations. Don't dream, people are not going to ditch their old URLs...

I have always said that new extensions would be marginal, and the fact that there are so many now available results in mutual dilution: very few will stand out. Background noise.

I am not saying that a modest shift cannot happen, but it will be modest and slow. Example: .club could become as 'popular' as .biz, big leap but that still doesn't spell success
Hoping for a major change of landscape in just 5 years is plain unrealistic. Do not underestimate inertia.

 

[biggie]

hope....

,mobi > everyone will use .mobi on mobile phones, not, never happened

,ws > great, means website

.pw > oh, great for professional website

.asia > big region, plenty potential end-users

.co > big overstock sale, will replace .com, not, didn't happen

add 300's more .whatevers to the mix and hope for the future is still the same....