NameSilo

Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?

Located in General Domain Discussion, started by DomainGist, May 30, 2020

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  1. CraigD

    CraigD Established Member

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    I think there are still some great hand registrations to be done - You just need to keep on top of the news.

    I regged a handful just last year...

    Something BIG was announced - I waited a few days & checked a few laws - I could not believe that no one had thought to register them. You'd think that some of the smartest people in the world would be on top of it, I mean it's not rocket science.... oh wait :astronaut:
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  2. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    And how much did these awesome domain names sell for?
     
  3. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    If we can agree to disagree without getting heavy, may I just point out that someone who is able to register a domain for $1million doesn't have to think whether they should register a new domain this week or eat. This, unfortunately is the situation that some people may find themselves in on the lower rungs of the ladder. I'd say someone who regs for $10 and get a modest $10 or $20 back gets more satisfaction than many people who can register a $1million name. Maybe, I'm wrong it's just that I know more poor people than rich.

    Statistics and data are remarkable things but sometimes that can be viewed through the wrong perspective. Are you stating that someone who can register a domain name for $1million must be able to perform the task 100,000 times for it to be viewed in the same light as someone repeating the same task and achieving the same ROI but only after investing $10? That then is the paradox. Could both sides of the equation achieve the same results and would one automatically have any advantage based on their abilities or just their circumstances.

    I'm at the bottom now looking up but I think it may be a while before I am hand registering a domain name for $1Million. I own Millionaiire.com - does that count?
     
  4. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Success is not always measured by the number of zeros at the end of a number. There can be small wins for big investors and big wins for small investors. I think that we should just all stop thinking in terms of money and just look at the things in life that cannot be measured in Dollars. The joy of picking up a hand reg just using you imagination and a little loose change. The thrill of listing the domain for sale...BIN or make offer? The actual process of being a domain investor means different things to different people and many including myself would just be happy for the sale and not be too worried about the numbers. This is a long game for many and I don't pretend to know much about domain name flipping but I do know that there are many people doing it successfully and making some money at the same time. It may not make them rich but it will make them richer.

    A rare commodity. Or, is it one of the rarest?
     
  5. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The vast majority of successful domain investors are not paying a million dollars for a domain. That is end user territory. I don't even think top tier investors like Rick Schwartz, Mike Mann, Andrew Rosener, etc. spend that type of money. It they do it would be an outlier.

    It is kind of a straw man argument really. You don't need a million dollar budget.
    There is a lot of room between $10 and $1M to find quality domains.

    If your model is trying to turn $10 domains into $20 sales I can assure you it will fail.

    It is simply not feasible to handle the negotiation and transfers on 100,000+ domain sales, unless it was to a bulk buyer. Even then, good luck finding a bulk buyer on 100,000 marginal domains.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  6. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    My comment was more of a subtle nudge to suggest that one person's great hand reg is another person's poor investment.

    I'm all for having fun while domaining, but I think most of us are here to make money. So why not strive for both? I'm not here to settle for just having fun. I want to push myself, and others, to work and invest smarter.
     
  7. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is how business works. You make money. That is how a business tends to be judged.

    If you don't want to make money then it is a hobby.
    There is nothing wrong with a hobby if you enjoy it.

    If you want to get into a philosophical debate that is another story.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  8. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I enjoy domain investing. I would not do it otherwise.

    I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, trying to find hidden gems. However, I also turned this into a business model.
    You can both enjoy something and turn it into a viable business. They are not mutually exclusive.

    Brad
     
  9. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Joe,

    A caveat before I start. I am not responding just to be an ass but I think that there can be two sides to every situation. Domain investing is not so straight forward for everyone and many different traits as humans affects the way in which we behave and respond to situations. I'm on the wrong side of crazy, with bi-polar tendencies thrown in with a side helping of a pinch of OCD. I may also be considered on some sort of spectrum but I just put that down to just who I am. I'm Irish and if you didn't know it the Irish Race has a penchant for gambling, drinking and fighting. Sometimes only one of the three and other times all three. I tend to vere towards the gambling side of things as I can't drink and I certainly can't fight. The Irish always seem to have fun whenever and wherever they go in life and maybe this is what makes us different. I wouldn't change a single thing.

    Therefore, what we do cannot always be pigeon-holed into doing things the right way or doing things the wrong way. It is just our way. It may not make sense to anyone else but it makes sense to us. Me saving it for months to buy one domain is like asking a rabbit not to dig a hole. Any money I get today has already been spent before I get is usually and this is why I figured that I could just go to the bookies everyday and leave with no money or I could invest the little I have everyday on a domain name. I've been a round the block a few times in my half century so to me it isn't as much of a risk as normal people would maybe think.

    Again, I'd like to point out that I haven't actually tried to sell any names apart from answering a few request threads on NP. However, If I've spent $6 on a hand reg and I'd be happy to maybe sell it for low $xxx then surely the number of potential end-users increases as the price is reduced. A small purchase price has in my limited opinion a great degree of liquidity as it would be fairly easy for other domainers to sell it on for say $10, thus making a $4 profit.

    Admittedly, I may be in a small minority of beginner domainers as I have literally hand registered hundreds of domain names, which stands at 450 today but this also now includes about 3-5% of purchased names. This may not be the pre-determined process for many domainers but I needed to get to a good number of domain names so that I could see what may or may not sell. I registered names for emerging trends and niches which I didn't know much about but I stayed away from crypto or canna domains as I know absolutely nothing about them. 50% of my portfolio or there abouts is .com so I did listen to some of the good advice that I was given.

    I guess the take away point from this is that although everything changes in life technology is moving so fast today that I don't necessarily agree that it is possible for anyone starting domaining today to use the wisdom of the past and take the tried and trusted methods and apply them to today's ever changing world.

    I'm only just starting my journey so I have many years ahead of me when I can sit down and look back at my mistakes.

    Only history can judge me.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
  10. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Brad,

    No, that is not my model. I just used the figures for illustrative purposes only. I don't think that doubling a small figure in enough transactions will ultimately fail if one is knowledgeable and determined enough. There are probably very few people alive today who have negotiated and transferred 100,000 domain names so this figure is not practical in the real world scenarios of today. Again, there is probably a number somewhere between 1 and 100,000 where this approach could be successful for someone.

    I live in a bubble where many people do not know what domain names are and that makes my task even more difficult. I'm also in a country that insists on .ie rather than .com so again that reduces my potential end user base which is why I have also registered some .ie domain names. It is about striking a balance and experimenting with what sells and building up the jigsaw puzzle that is domain investing. I've only a few pieces missing and no finished picture.

    No one said it would be this hard lol.
     
  11. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    That is indeed a noble cause and as much as I like to have fun I am very serious about this business and I am proud to call myself a Domain Investor. One day soon, I hope to call myself a Domain Investor who has made sales. Small steps and lots of study.
     
  12. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Brad,

    I can barely spell 'philosophical' let alone understand it. I think making money is to a degree an inevitable consequence of being a Domain Investor. It may not come straight away and we will spend the first few years learning and making mistakes but ultimately, I'd say that most people's goal is to make money. Many hobbies can become small businesses over time and I don't see this as being any different. When we start fishing or golfing there will inevitably be start up costs as there would be if you started a business straight away and this may be money that you never get back but the skills and the knowledge that you pick up is the reward. These early years will define you and they will either make you or break you.

    Maybe I should set myself up as a charitable foundation as all I seem to do at present is give me money away.

    Don't panic though...I have a plan.

    Regards,

    Redd
     
  13. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    No need to tell you're not responding to be an ass. We're all just chatting and sharing ideas.

    I agree that there's no right and wrong way of doing things to a certain extent... But in most industries, there's an established way of doing things successfully that has been arrived at via many people testing many methods over a long period of time. Within those established methods, there is room for innovation.

    I could throw a baseball with my foot, and it wouldn't be "wrong"... but I bet it won't work as well as if I use my arm!

    I think you'll find that your notion of liquidity is not what you think it is when it comes to those hand regs. Unless a name is objectively decent, you'll be hard-pressed to get even 10% of your purchase price back... The reason being that other domainers can simply wait for registry promos and buy their own hand reg names.
     
  14. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

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    Actually, I think the majority of people who try domaining end up losing money...
     
  15. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yep. Without a good eye and good business model I think losses are inevitable.

    Brad
     
  16. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Guys,

    Don't worry. I've a spreadsheet which keeps me grounded. I know to the penny what I've spent so far and there's a tab for 'Sales'. It is a bit bare at present but I've a plan for that too.

    No doubt, I will revisit my plan over time and certainly every year to see what works and what doesn't work. It is quite fluid and nothing is set in stone.

    There's so much to learn which is why I'm taking my time. I'm 0 for 1 at present and half way through my second innings.

    Prosper and live long.
     
  17. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Account Closed (Requested) VIP

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    That's an interesting read there Reddstagg about both your background and entry into domains.

    The one thing I can't fathom at the moment though, Is having no doubt put a lot of thought into your 430 domain registrations todate. Why have you not taken the time to get them listed at a good reseller site. Part of the learning curve is indeed about what sells and the most appropriate prices to be asking. The feedback you get from No sales is almost as important as you get from a successful sale. You have to take that plunge in order to be able to dissect your own buying strategies. Sure you may fear selling yourself short, (or over pricing) but that again is all part of progressing.

    I'm hazarding a guess that your yearly renewal costs will be in excess of $4,000 at the current holding. From early experience I can say there is nothing worse than being in the position of having to cull your portfolio without it ever seeing an opportunity to sell.

    It is so easy to get caught up in buying domains and It's certainly one of the most self satisfying elements of domaining. The selling aspect unfortunately does seem like work, It requires concentration, investigation, negotiation and a lot of retrospective thinking - but what I can say is nothing beats those first couple of sales paydays
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  18. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There are good handregs still available. There are also quality domains at low aftermarket prices.

    The problem is that most domainers are impatient. They want to flip domains they register the next day for profit.

    The successful domainers make good sales 3 to 5 or more years after registration or purchase.

    If you register a domain that you don't see value in keeping for 5 years then you shouldn't register it in the first place.

    This is what we should be teaching the yang wuns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  19. BrandCollectors.com

    BrandCollectors.com Established Member

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    just reduced prices on my collection from $x,xxx to $xx
     
  20. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Thank you for your feedback. It is appreciated. I didn't even know what name servers were until a couple of months ago and although I have them listed at Efty I am still investigating the options and don't want to do the wrong thing and have to undo any mistakes.

    There so many different companies that to someone relatively new to the industry would think offer the correct solution but then when you drill down the data they are not all the same.

    I don't want to rush the next stage which is key to making sales so I'm still stalling a little until I am 100% sure of my choice.

    I started off with all domains at GD but then switched to a small registry in Ireland where I can reg a dot.com for $6 with $12 renewals. Obviously my initial thought were Afternic because of the GD link but then I had some problems with the .ie and Irish language zone files so had to change plan.

    I now have 5 different registries after buying some domains so even more complicated now.

    I had spread my domains throughout the year so I don't have a huge hump of renewals in anyone month so not so harsh. I dropped about 10% before their renewal and diverted what I would have spent into new domain names.

    I'd not be the best technically so many things are first times for me and take a while to fully understand.

    I am getting there slowly but I, like everyone else had to re-adjust with Covid19.

    Not an excuse but a reality.

    The things I learn now will serve me well in the future.

    Once again, thanks for your comments.
     
  21. NickB

    NickB Aka MrAcidic VIP

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    If not already done, you can list your domains on Afternic it does not require any name server modifications (unless you use ns3 & ns4 options)....you can do this while deciding where to point your domains....
     
  22. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Account Closed (Requested) VIP

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    Just a little add here ReddStagg.

    One of the first things I learnt when listing a portfolio for sale - Approach things in batches - Force yourself to batch list Alphabetically. Aim to take as many choices AWAY* from the task (these only lead to procrastination) And besides you'll never forget where you are 'Alphabetically'. Doing say 20 a day makes the whole task a doddle. Obviously with five different registries in use. Apply the alphabetical rule to each registry in turn. Put everything at Make-offer until you've completed the whole process - then think about pricing options or adding text etc

    * i.e Don't go down the what's best worse domain - high price low price etc, .

    Obviously the best eyeballs come about once you have the nameservers set pointing the domain to a sales page
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  23. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Thank you for you recommendation. I'm already signed up with them and I shall look into it further.
     
  24. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Thank you for your wise words. It is appreciated.

    I have an alphabetical tab and a value tab on my spreadsheet but noticed that most registries are listed a to z so it makes the task easier.

    I will get on it straight away and decide soon enough.

    A little knowledge goes a long way and this is good logical information for any domainer.

    Cheers Guys.
     
  25. karmaco

    karmaco Top Contributor VIP

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    Anybody who says “stop thinking in terms of money” is dabbling, not serious and most certainly not a domainer. Might get the same thrill just buying scratch off tickets or numerous other hobbies that require less of an investment.

    We get it. You aren’t in this for money. This isn’t your livelihood (thank God 🙄) but to tell other people I think you should focus less on money and exist off the joy of collecting/obtaining is ridiculous and rather arrogant of you.

    Some people need this as extra or primary income. To some people this helps their quality of life. While for you its a pleasant leisurely activity. Others NEED to succeed at this and it makes a world of difference to them.

    You need a disclaimer in your posts — I am a hobbyist and a philosopher and not in it for the money and let the people who do view this as a serious business carry on with it.
     

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