Epik, We have a problem. Domain removed from account without permission.

[bmugford]

I am sure as many of you are aware I have had issues with Epik in the past, but decided to give them a chance when I saw a domain I wanted on Name Liquidate.

I purchased the domain PianoMoving.com on 7/20. It was transferred into my account then.
This was the only domain in my account.

It was in my WHOIS information.
I updated the nameservers.

When I just checked it is magically no longer in my account.
The nameservers were changed.
I received zero contact about the domain being moved.

I have all the receipts -

1.) The purchase/renewal from Epik.
2.) The Paypal charge.
3.) Email of when the domain was moved into my account @ Epik.
4.) Email when the nameservers were updated in early August @ Epik.

I don't see any indication that the domain was removed from my account.
On top of zero communication, there also appears to be nothing under "Outgoing Pushes" or "Task History".

I sent a DM to @Rob Monster about this earlier this morning, but have not received a response yet.

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

I want the domain I won, that was in my account, which I had full control over.
It was removed from my account without permission or even notification.

I do not find this acceptable in any way.

@Epik.com, you have some explaining to do.

Brad

 

[Recons.Com]

The fact that they did not issue the refund of no trivial amount, after removing the name without permission/notification of the account owner, and waited for few weeks until it was discovered by Brad, makes everything so much worse!!!

I have 22000 domains with Godaddy. I have no worries because I fully trust them that nothing like that can happen. Imagine otherwise, if I had to a) regularly check my past downloads to current to see if any name disappeared b) regularly check the reversed auction wins (without hitting my account) and checking my credit cards if they "forgot" to return my money.

I stopped buying at Dyna auctions, because I did not like when they refunded me for the undelivered auction with the account credit instead of straightforward card refund and I had to go through the extra motions to get that money. This is, again, way way worse!!!

So,

Error 1: Set an installment escrow without bothering to renew the name that was about to expire

Error 2: Send the name to NameLiquidate (how was this possible if Braden hadn't enabled this option?) and allow it to be won by someone without any red flags, notifications etc.

Error 3: Go and blatantly remove the name from the account after letting it sit there for weeks.

Error 4: Issue no notification about it and hope the owner doesn't notice

Error 5: wait until the owner notices to return his $1k money

Error 6: provide generic BS answer to the support ticket

Error 7: have the outgoing (?) CEO come into the public forum, use the "opportunity" for self-promotion, attack the customer that has been wrongfully treated and offer compensation goodies in the form of paper money that he has no use for.

Did I miss anything? But yes, if we don't count the above, they can absolutely claim to be the swiss bank of domains

 

[bmugford]

So,

Error 1: Set an installment escrow without bothering to renew the name that was about to expire

Error 2: Send the name to NameLiquidate (how was this possible if Braden hadn't enabled this option?) and allow it to be won by someone without any red flags, notifications etc.

Error 3: Go and blatantly remove the name from the account after letting it sit there for weeks.

Error 4: Issue no notification about it and hope the owner doesn't notice

Error 5: wait until the owner notices to return his $1k money

Error 6: provide generic BS answer to the support ticket

Error 7: have the outgoing (?) CEO come into the public forum, use the "opportunity" for self-promotion, attack the customer that has been wrongfully treated and offer compensation goodies in the form of paper money that he has no use for.

Did I miss anything? But yes, if we don't count the above, they can absolutely claim to be the swiss bank of domains

I think that about sums it up.

This is not simply about some "error" or "mistake".

It involves a multi-step process where there are failures at each step.

Brad

 

[carob]

This is not simply about some "error" or "mistake".

It involves a multi-step process where there are failures at each step.

Brad

Simple calculation: would it save money for those responsible to just give Brad 12k?

This fiasco is costing time and money to deal with and from a customer service point of view, it will probably cost Epik over 12k if they stick to their position - they will lose business. The 12k is just a cost of doing business.

Nice opportunity for the new CEO to step in and do the right thing and also promise improvements. Behind the scenes later Epik can argue about who should really bear the costs - Braden, Monster, a rogue employee, or the company. Or some weird insurance claim.

BTW not saying Brad would accept such an offer !

 

[bmugford]

Simple calculation: would it save money for those responsible to just give Brad 12k?

This fiasco is costing time and money to deal with and from a customer service point of view, it will probably cost Epik over 12k if they stick to their position - they will lose business. The 12k is just a cost of doing business.

Nice opportunity for the new CEO to step in an do the right thing and also promise improvements. Behind the scenes later Epik can argue about who should really bear the costs - Braden, Monster, a rogue employee, or the company. Or some weird insurance claim.

BTW not saying Brad would accept such an offer !

As I said earlier in this thread, if Epik wants to reach out to me in actual good faith to discuss a resolution, I am open to it.

So far, they have chosen not to do that.

Brad

 

[Bean]

I just went through this entire thread and it does seem like this was a genuine error.
What boggles my mind however is how utterly unprofessional a prominent company like Epik was in handling their mistake. That they would think it okay to simply remove the domain from the legitimate owner's account without so much as a notification/explanation is absolutely insane.
In my eyes, the proper way to handle this would have been for them to get in touch with Brad the second they realized their mistake. They should have apologized and offered a detailed explanation about what happened and why it happened along with a proposed fair compensation. And that would be even before they do anything with the domain in his account.
It is not possible to guard against errors, even the most well thought out, sophisticated systems are prone to them. Since you can't guarantee an error-free system, being accountable and taking full responsibility for your mistakes is the only way to win trust and build reputation.

 

[tonyk2000]

ICANN obviously cannot order domain transfer back to Brad. They have no such powers. UDRP panel can, appropriate court can, but ICANN cannot. What they can (and likely will) do is to request the full history - all related pushes, transactions, communications, ownership records etc. And inspect it. In some cases they'd publish a public notice on https://www.icann.org/compliance/notices . Since in this case Epik already disclosed their version (too many unintentional errors, but we fixed them all) - ICANN will likely hear the same, and close the ticket as the result. Imo...

 

[Start]

I have 22000 domains with Godaddy. I have no worries because I fully trust them that nothing like that can happen. Imagine otherwise, if I had to a) regularly check my past downloads to current to see if any name disappeared b) regularly check the reversed auction wins (without hitting my account) and checking my credit cards if they "forgot" to return my money.

You may want to look more closely. Like I said above, I got a refund email out of the blue almost a year after I bought a closeout domain at GoDaddy. And I half-think that I actually did have it in my account for the year.

And sometimes for failed auctions/purchases, I get a refund later, but the email only mentions the auction/closeout portion, but not the registration/renewal refund portion. But then I will receive an email about the latter a few days afterward... but sometimes not (this reminds me that I need to check on those refunds).

And Mister Funsky above said he had a domain taken out at GoDaddy weeks after he had possession of it.

But like I wrote in more detail above, I chalk it up to "mistakes happen", and I prefer lower costs over 100% accuracy.

I stopped buying at Dyna auctions, because I did not like when they refunded me for the undelivered auction with the account credit instead of straightforward card refund and I had to go through the extra motions to get that money.

That's a reasonable policy, and there are plenty of people who would prefer Dynadot's method.

For people outside the US, if you pay in US dollars, you get charged for currency conversion... usually up to 3%. So on a $2000 purchase, you lose ~3% on the initial purchase. And then on the refund, you would lose another ~3%. That's a $60 loss just for the refund, and plenty of people would like the option to tell Dynadot if they want it sent back or not.

Even for people in the US, some people might find some other Dynadot auction domain they want to buy instead... and would rather deploy those funds, instead of using new funds and waiting days for the earlier refund.

 

[frank-germany]

As I said earlier in this thread, if Epik wants to reach out to me in actual good faith to discuss a resolution, I am open to it.

So far, they have chosen not to do that.

Brad

I didn't want to read the complete thread:
did epik actually never contact you about that issue?

 

[Start]

Did I miss anything?

Yes:

Error 2: Send the name to NameLiquidate (how was this possible if Braden hadn't enabled this option?) and allow it to be won by someone without any red flags, notifications etc.

The default is that expired Epik domains go to NameLiquidate. There's nothing to "enable", just like I don't "enable" anything at GoDaddy or Dynadot for where my expired domains there go.

And I've seen a domain I let expire go onto NL, so as I wrote on page 8, that's how I could deduce that it was an expired domain situation.

Error 6: provide generic BS answer to the support ticket

See, this is part of the problem:
Brad didn't create a support ticket. He didn't even email Rob, or ask Epik support via webchat, which would provide an immediate response -- maybe not an immediate answer, but he could at least chat with someone about it.

Brad was obviously wronged by Epik here. But I don't think it helped the situation that he apparently only sent Rob a DM on a forum.

Then after seeing a refund, but not waiting more than a few hours for a reply, he went public with his complaint... which predictably, is a magnet for people with an axe to grind, and creates a mob mentality. And leads to this type of conspiracy thinking by some, lol:

Epik didn't communicate well on this issue and obviously should have contacted him earlier. But I think Brad's communication steps were also not ideal.


C'mon people:
If you have a problem at a company (any company), the first step isn't to send a DM to the CEO on a forum (where the recipient may possibly not even visit for days).

Doesn't that sound a bit silly when pointed out like that?

- That can be a supplementary step, but the first step should be to contact their regular support
- And then wait at least 12 hours for them to respond, before complaining publicly
- Then sure, maybe even after they respond, you decide to go public. But then at least you have some basic details in the original post, to prevent outlandish & pointless speculation.

I think that's a fair approach, when dealing with any company.

Realistically, if you want another party to be more conciliatory and make more concessions, it helps to create less hassle for them. Even if the other party is totally at fault for what you experienced, it's just psychology that they are less likely to give remedies if hassles are created.

If that doesn't work, then yeah, maybe you gotta take an aggressive, public approach. Or maybe you simply feel it should be public, but at least wait for their response with some details, so you can actually tell people what happened.

I think that applies when dealing with any company.

 

[NickB]

Yes:




The default is that expired Epik domains go to NameLiquidate. There's nothing to "enable", just like I don't "enable" anything at GoDaddy or Dynadot for where my expired domains there go.

And I've seen a domain I let expire go onto NL, so as I wrote on page 8, that's how I could deduce that it was an expired domain situation.



See, this is part of the problem:
Brad didn't create a support ticket. He didn't even email Rob, or ask Epik support via webchat, which would provide an immediate response -- maybe not an immediate answer, but he could at least chat with someone about it.

Brad was obviously wronged. But I don't think it helped the situation that he apparently only sent Rob a DM on a forum.

Then after seeing a refund, but not waiting more than a few hours for a reply, he went public with his complaint... which predictably, is a magnet for people with an axe to grind, and creates a mob mentality. And leads to this type of conspiracy thinking by some, lol:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/430/367/007.gif

Epik didn't communicate well on this issue and obviously should have contacted him earlier. But I think Brad's communication steps were also not ideal.


C'mon people:
If you have a problem at a company (any company), the first step isn't to send a DM to the CEO on a forum (where the recipient may possibly not even visit for days).

Doesn't that sound a bit silly when pointed out like that?

- That can be a supplementary step, but the first step should be to contact their regular support
- And then wait at least 12 hours for them to respond, before complaining publicly
- Then sure, maybe even after they respond, you decide to go public. But then at least you have some basic details in the original post, to prevent outlandish & pointless speculation.

I think that's a fair approach, when dealing with any company.

Realistically, if you want another party to be more conciliatory and make more concessions, it helps to create less hassle for them. Even if the other party is totally at fault for what you experienced, it's just psychology that they are less likely to give remedies if hassles are created.

If that doesn't work, then yeah, maybe you gotta take an aggressive, public approach. Or maybe you simply feel it should be public, but at least wait for their response with some details, so you can actually tell people what happened.

I think that applies when dealing with any company.

Didn't communicate well? There was ZERO communication - they stole the domain from his account.....

Plenty of FTSE and Fortune 500 companies get complaints on Social Media which are handled in a professional and courteous manner, it makes no difference where the complaint is raised, it is how it is dealt with that counts.....

You can also raise a grievance on any platform while dealing with the company direct, in this case none of this would of been made public and we would be none the wiser......

I have personally raised/escalated complaints with finance companies and it's only after threatening to complain to the ombudsman or got them involved that the matter was dealt with - more hassle for the company, quicker remedial action for me - so I don't buy that causing more hassle = less remedies......

 

[Start]

Didn't communicate well? There was ZERO communication - they stole the domain from his account.....

"Communicate well" refers to a combination of the earlier lack of communication and the response here.

And "stolen" is an exaggeration - it was returned to the end user who had already started their payments, which is the fairest thing to do.

But they neglected to communicate to Brad and give a prompt refund. However, it's silly and nonsensical to think that they purposely didn't refund it. Neglect/forgetting is different than malice. Intention matters.

In this thread, we also have people who have talked about domains being taken out at Dynadot and GoDaddy, and I had an experience like that via SnapNames.

Mistakes happen, and like I said, I prefer lower costs over 100% accuracy.

Plenty of FTSE and Fortune 500 companies get complaints on Social Media which are handled in a professional and courteous manner, it makes no difference where the complaint is raised, it is how it is dealt with that counts.....

Yes, and I think that's not the right way to initiate a complaint. Seriously, think about it as a business owner: if you and a customer (domain buyer or any customer) have some misunderstanding, do you want them to complain about you on Twitter?

A lot of times (in general, with the overall population), people's complaints are unreasonable too, or they lack full details or haven't thought about why policies are the way they are.

That type of unnecessary negativity is a microcosm for why social media has become so problematic for society.

If people need to complain, they should do it directly first and at least wait a bit, to get a response from the business. Then maybe it deserves to be publicized, but I've never agreed with the "Twitter first" approach.

You can also raise a grievance on any platform while dealing with the company direct, in this case none of this would of been made public and we would be none the wiser......

No, it sounds like Brad would have anyway, but at least then his original post would have more details... which would have prevented a lot of the outlandish and pointless speculation.

Even on this page, after certain things were already explained, we have people making incorrect speculation.

I have personally raised/escalated complaints with finance companies and it's only after threatening to complain to the ombudsman or got them involved that the matter was dealt with - more hassle for the company, quicker remedial action for me - so I don't buy that causing more hassle = less remedies......

Yeah sure, I will also occasionally play hardball with a company, if necessary. But first I talk to them directly, because if it's not a huge corporation where you're just a number, then the people you're dealing with will remember you, and it doesn't help a future business relationship to play hardball.

Again, Epik should have proactively sent the refund and communicated. But from a customer perspective, sending a DM to a CEO on a forum is never step 1. Even out of self-interest, it's not the fastest way to talk to someone.

 

[NickB]

"Communicate well" refers to a combination of the earlier lack of communication and the response here.

And "stolen" is an exaggeration - it was returned to the end user who had already started their payments, which is the fairest thing to do.

But they neglected to communicate to Brad and give a prompt refund. However, it's silly and nonsensical to think that they purposely didn't refund it. Neglect/forgetting is different than malice. Intention matters.

In this thread, we also have people who have talked about domains being taken out at Dynadot and GoDaddy, and I had an experience like that via SnapNames.

Mistakes happen, and like I said, I prefer lower costs over 100% accuracy.



Yes, and I think that's a foolish way to complain. Seriously, think about it as a business owner: if you and a customer (domain buyer or any customer) have some misunderstanding, do you want them to complain about you on Twitter?

A lot of times (in general, with the overall population), people's complaints are unreasonable too, or they lack full details or haven't thought about why policies are the way they are.

That type of unnecessary negativity is why social media has become a cesspool in some ways.

If people need to complain, they should do it directly first and at least wait a bit, to get a response from the business.




No, it sounds like Brad would have anyway, but at least then his original post would have more details... which would have prevented a lot of the outlandish and pointless speculation.

Even on this page, after certain things were already explained, we have people making incorrect speculation.



Yeah sure, I will also occasionally play hardball with a company, if necessary. But first I talk to them directly, because if it's not a huge corporation where you're just a number, then the people you're dealing with will remember you, and it doesn't help a future business relationship to play hardball.

Again, Epik should have proactively sent the refund and communicated. But from a customer perspective, sending a DM to a CEO on a forum is never step 1.

As they did not renew the domain it was no longer that person/company's property - Brad was the rightful owner of the domain, being on a payment plan is a mute point as they longer owned the asset they were paying for.....They should be issued a full refund and Brad should have his asset that he legally paid for transferred back to him.

It's like saying I did not cancel a standing order for an item, resold it and continued paying for it out of my own stupidity.....

As they did not communicate to Brad that they had removed the domain from his account and only responded a month later when he contacted them I would lean heavily towards nefarious intent rather than an oversight.... which is just generic BS term companies use when they have been caught with trousers down.....

A lot of companies fail to deal with complaints when they are brought directly to them - It's amazing how quickly they can get resolved if someone calmly raises the issue on Social Media - Corporate reputation still means a lot to most companies, unlike Epik it seems........who look like they have failed on at least 4 of the below

Edit: I've said my piece on this thread, we can agree to disagree - feel free to respond but I'm just going to continue reading from here on out.......

 

[Start]

As they did not renew the domain it was no longer that person/company's property - Brad was the rightful owner of the domain, being on a payment plan is a mute point as they longer owned the asset they were paying for.....They should be issued a full refund and Brad should have his asset that he legally paid for transferred back to him.

From a perspective of logic and fairness, I think it should stay with the earlier buyer.

A couple of hours ago, I looked-up what the law may say, and in the UK at least, it seems my view is what the law says. But I don't know about the US.

Plus, Epik's Terms & Conditions -- like other companies -- do state that they can cancel an auction purchase at their discretion. They didn't give proper notification to Brad, but still, the potential cancellation is in the Terms.

I would lean heavily towards nefarious intent rather than an oversight.

C'mon, simple logic shows that's absurd. $1000 is nothing in the big picture, in terms of the money they got by forgetting to do the refund.

And if someone nefariously wants to steal a domain for an $11,000 profit, they aren't going to take a a domain from an account where that's the only domain. And to do it nefariously, they would "cover their tracks" by promptly taking the domain out, tell Brad about the removal, and do the $1000 refund.

They wouldn't take the domain out, never expect to refund it or for Brad to notice, and then on top of that, have Braden publicize how he sold the domain. Just LOL at thinking that was some nefarious plan.

This was quite clearly simply a mistake combined with some sort of forgetfulness to contact Brad proactively.

Edit: I've said my piece on this thread, we can agree to disagree - feel free to respond but I'm just going to continue reading from here on out.......

Yeah, I've now spent too much time writing here, and have other things to do today. So good luck to all.

 

[bmugford]

Didn't communicate well? There was ZERO communication - they stole the domain from his account.....

Plenty of FTSE and Fortune 500 companies get complaints on Social Media which are handled in a professional and courteous manner, it makes no difference where the complaint is raised, it is how it is dealt with that counts.....

You can also raise a grievance on any platform while dealing with the company direct, in this case none of this would of been made public and we would be none the wiser......

I have personally raised/escalated complaints with finance companies and it's only after threatening to complain to the ombudsman or got them involved that the matter was dealt with - more hassle for the company, quicker remedial action for me - so I don't buy that causing more hassle = less remedies......

Yeah, that comment is kind of laughable honestly.

Yes, it was me whose communications were not ideal...you know the one who got the domain taken without authorization, notice, or explanation a month after I owned it.

The one who continued to have no communication or refund for an additional almost 2 weeks after the domain disappeared, until I stumbled on it missing.

LOL. Please.

Again, simple request. Can anyone point to a similar situation where a domain was taken without permission or notification a month later in this type of situation?

This did not involve theft. It did not involve an unauthorized sale.

If you take what Epik said at face value, it basically involved the incompetence of a party which did not renew the domain. That party was either Epik or the party buying it on a payment plan.

Either way that is their fault, and I don't believe in a normal situation the domain would be able to be taken back. It was only able to be recovered because Epik had access to take it back. According to Epik, it was some "exotic" deal, that seemed to be a deviation outside the norms.

This is not the same as a domain being renewed before it is moved to your account. I am still waiting on another similar example.

Brad

 

[Start]

Yes, it was me whose communications were not ideal...you know the one who got the domain taken without authorization, notice, or explanation a month after I owned it.

The one who continued to have no communication or refund for an additional almost 2 weeks after he domain disappeared.

I did say this:
"Brad was obviously wronged by Epik here. But I don't think it helped the situation that he apparently only sent Rob a DM on a forum."

Both things can be true. The issue is obviously the fault of Epik and/or Braden, but I'm just saying, I don't think a DM was the right contact method, and I think with any company, people should wait longer for a response.

"Again, Epik should have proactively sent the refund and communicated. But from a customer perspective, sending a DM to a CEO on a forum is never step 1. Even out of self-interest, it's not the fastest way to talk to someone."

 

[bmugford]

I did say this:
"Brad was obviously wronged by Epik here. But I don't think it helped the situation that he apparently only sent Rob a DM on a forum."

Both things can be true. The issue is obviously the fault of Epik and/or Braden, but I'm just saying, I don't think a DM was the right contact method, and I think with any company, people should wait longer for a response.

"Again, Epik should have proactively sent the refund and communicated. But from a customer perspective, sending a DM to a CEO on a forum is never step 1. Even out of self-interest, it's not the fastest way to talk to someone."

Great. Thanks for your opinion.

When the only defense is "communications were not ideal", Epik is not in a real good position to defend their actions.

When you factor in my communications vs. the company that snatched my domain without authorization or notification after a month, I think it is clear which parties communications were far less "ideal".

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Plus, Epik's Terms & Conditions -- like other companies -- do state that they can cancel an auction purchase at their discretion. They didn't give proper notification to Brad, but still, the potential cancellation is in the Terms.

I mean this is not exactly a great talking point for Epik.

Oh, their terms of service allow them to snatch a domain, for some unlimited period of time?

Even if that is the case, falling back on that type of policy to justify this almost looks worse.

That is not likely to make people feel really comfortable and secure with domains in their account.

Not to mention, again as an ICANN accredited registrar they are required to follow ICANN polices. That is what accreditation means.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I didn't want to read the complete thread:
did epik actually never contact you about that issue?

Any communications were disclosed in the thread.

In my view Epik has made no serious, good faith effort to resolve their "mistake" or "error".

Brad

 

[Start]

I think it is clear which parties communications were far less "ideal".

Yup, that's what I said.

But still, I don't think a DM to a CEO is ever step 1, and I think you should have waited at least to the end of the day for a response, before posting publicly without knowing certain details (like the expiration aspect).

I'm just saying, I think in dispute situations, if taking a "very quick and public" approach (with non-huge companies in particular), the other party is probably going to make less of an effort on remedies.

Again, they're at fault here, but the customer's approach can affect outcomes imo.

That party with either basically Epik or the party buying it on a payment plan.

Well, based on the info in my post here https://www.namepros.com/threads/ep...count-without-permission.1282400/post-8695687 , it normally would be up to the seller (Braden) to do the renewal. This wasn't done the normal way, but it seems like it's either Epik and/or Braden's fault, but probably not that payment plan buyer.

Again, simple request. Can anyone point to a similar situation where a domain was taken without permission or notification a month later in this type of situation?

It sounds like Mister Funsky experienced something similar at GoDaddy, as he said here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ep...count-without-permission.1282400/post-8695700

And I had a weird issue with a GoDaddy refund almost a year later, but I don't remember whether I actually had the domain in my account or not.

Oh, their terms of service allow them to snatch a domain, for some unlimited period of time.
Even if that is the case, falling back on that type of policy to justify this almost looks worse.

I see SnapNames also says that. I assume the timeframe would be 60 days, but they don't specify.

 

[bmugford]

It sounds like Mister Funsky experienced something similar at GoDaddy, as he said here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ep...count-without-permission.1282400/post-8695700

And I had a weird issue with a GoDaddy refund almost a year later, but I don't remember whether I actually had the domain in my account or not.

I mean an actual example, with an actual domain.

That is what we have here. The facts about what happened are relatively clear.
Removed after a month without authorization, notification, explanation, or refund.

Again, can anyone actually name one similar case with any specifics whatsoever?
Not some random story without any details.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Well, based on the info in my post here https://www.namepros.com/threads/ep...count-without-permission.1282400/post-8695687 , it normally would be up to the seller (Braden) to do the renewal. This wasn't done the normal way, but it seems like it's either Epik and/or Braden's fault, but probably not that payment plan buyer.

As far as I can tell, @Braden Pollock did not have possession of the domain for quite some time, so I am not sure how he could have possibly been able to renew the domain.

Even if you take what Epik said at face value, they did some "exotic" deal and whatever party was responsible for the renewal failed to carry out their responsibility. That is incompetence.

People lose domains all the time because they fail to renew them.

I don't believe in a normal situation the domain would be recovered. That is where a deviation from the norms would become a factor.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

No, it sounds like Brad would have anyway, but at least then his original post would have more details... which would have prevented a lot of the outlandish and pointless speculation.

- Then sure, maybe even after they respond, you decide to go public. But then at least you have some basic details in the original post, to prevent outlandish & pointless speculation.

The first post of this thread basically included all the relevant factual details of what happened.

The underlying facts did not change in any meaningful way as the thread went on.

The domain was purchased legitimately. It was removed by Epik without authorization, notification, or explanation. No one has denied that.

Those still remain the core facts of what happened.

I have been completely transparent about what happened, meanwhile others can't even point to one similar case with actual details.

Brad

 

[Pairadice]

I have an alternate take just for fun since it appears the thread is getting close to resolved, as there is no remedy, etc. I will probably get blasted for posting this.

I guess the question is: what did bmugford know at the time when he purchased the domain? As an investor why would he choose to spend nearly 1k on a domain that is 11 letters long?

People might say, oh because it's a good name, etc. Yeah but there are tons of such names available for less than 1k if you are an investor. "pianomovers" for example would be also a similar name of equal quality perhaps.

Early in the thread you mentioned the purchase of this particular domain was based on the prior selling price of this exact domain.

Since the sale had taken place in May, you might have known about it from when it was announced on twitter or from other sources such as namebio.

you might have thought it was just expired due to the purchaser's negligence in renewing said domain and the goal was to purchase the domain for 995 and then try to sell it back to them for another $12k or higher due to their stupidity in not renewing the domain.

That would explain why, when scanning names that had recently sold for 5 figures and then you noticed it was recently listed on nameliquidate, which could only be seen as a major error on the purchaser's part in letting the domain expire, you decided to purchase immediately for $995 or something instead of doing what most people would do, and wait for the price to go down to $150 or something and then buy it.

If so - then you were sort of taking advatage of a glitch in epik's system in sending the names immediately to nameliquidate upon expiry - to get the domain - which is really smart!

One could actually farm the names at that price level in the effort to obtain good names immediately that have mistakenly been left to expire.

then later it turned out it was not expired due to the purchaser's negligence but due to epik's negligence while on a manual payment plan. That explanation cannot be made-up because braden confirmed the domain was on a payment plan.

I guess the response is: if you are going to try to do things that are really smart and sneaky, involving capitalizing on a system where a registrar places all names up for sale (BIN) automatically upon expiration, then you have to realize sometimes these ideas will work and sometimes they are not going to work and the domain could be clawed back.

Should you lash out at epik over this, given the foregoing? well clearly it was a mistake and attempted capitalization on that mistake from the get-go and stuff so I don't know.

if you get them in trouble and they have to end nameliquidate as a result, then you won't be able to farm for these expiration mistakes in the future... since the other sites have an "auction" system.

 

[bmugford]

I guess the question is: what did bmugford know at the time when he purchased the domain? As an investor why would he choose to spend nearly 1k on a domain that is 11 letters long?

That is an odd comment. Anyone who did the bare minimum of research would know this is a valuable domain.
If you don't see the clear value in this domain, that is more of a reflection on your ability to value domains.

Piano Moving is an excellent lead generation term, and single leads can brings hundreds or potential thousands of dollars for a difficult move of a high value piano. This is a specific moving niche, not some random domain.

People might say, oh because it's a good name, etc. Yeah but there are tons of such names available for less than 1k if you are an investor. "pianomovers" for example would be also a similar name of equal quality perhaps.

Name one domain available for that price with similar metrics.

Both PianoMover.com and PianoMovers.com are owned by end users. That just illustrates the value of the term that much more.

Early in the thread you mentioned the purchase of this particular domain was based on the prior selling price of this exact domain.

I didn't even know about the $12K sale until it was posted in this thread. Go ahead and ask @Braden Pollock about that. How could I possibly know about a sale that was reported on 8/18 when I bought the domain around a month earlier?

You are talking nonsense with this post.

Brad

 

[tonyk2000]

what did bmugford know at the time when he purchased the domain? As an investor why would he choose to spend nearly 1k on a domain that is 11 letters long?

Not a frequent case, but nothing too special. I no more use Epik or nameliquidate, but I used nameliquidate when they appeared. I had a couple or so of my domains - which I knowingly listed myself (did not want to renew) - purchased for high 3 figures (namely, other investors elected to purchase immediately as soon as they saw the listings).