question "End User" Perceptions

[ThatNameGuy]

BrandPro - invalid - NamePro??? What name resonates most with end users? "Brand", "Domain" or "Name"? I know from my experience many business people don't really know what a domain is, however they know what a brand, and a name are.

I believe this is why most domains, 98 of 100 are hoarded and stay on the shelf. Any way you cut it, that's deplorable

Regardless of the definition of "Brand", and the belief an "end user" relates to it more than "Domain", don't you think a marketplace for domain names would best be identified using the term "Brand" like; BrandableBrands.com

Any other thoughts, views or opinions? Thanks

 

[ThatNameGuy]

It is sad that people know what Facebook (IMO today's AOL) is but dont realize that facebook.com is the domain name. But that is how it goes. There is a generation or two of people who still do not know what a domain name is.

I just had a garage door repaired and the guy (I'd say mid-40s) asked me "So, what is it that you do??". Among other things I mentioned that I buy/sell invest in domain names and he asked me "whats a domain name?" So that started the typical reply and you could see the wheels turning in his brain. He just never thought about it I guess and when he discussed it he seemed very intrigued and interested (unless he was a good actor!) LOL.

But yes, probably more people than no know what facebook and social media is than they know what brands and domains are.

AGAME...you are spot on about the lack of knowledge about this industry. I've been saying that ad nausseum much to the chagrin of my critics ever since I arrived on the NP scene. That's exactly why I see so much in the way of opportunity especially in the way of "outbound" marketing/sales of domain names. My belief is, if you educate them, they will buy.

You may notice that I just yesterday reg'd PopsBrands.com and PopsDomains.com. "Pops" is such an endearing word, I was pretty surprised they were both available to hand reg. I've already picked up some pretty "catchy" names associated with first word "Pops" followed by a second keyword that work for the restaurant industry, the financial services industry, the transportation industry, and the sports and travel industries.

Thanks AGAME for contributing

 

[branding]

I need is a technical partner who can compliment the strengths I bring to the table

Out of curiosity (being honest here) what kind of technical partner are you looking for? There are plenty of affordable devs available these days.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

The internet is now 50 years old and highly intelligent business people still don't understand what a "domain" is and still don't understand the value of a "domain".

Isn't that strange ?


Well, I guess they will learn rather quickly when nobody visits their physical retail-store, their physical company, their physical bank, their physical organisation, etc. anymore.

But many of them are not internet-savvy, so they will never learn.
But they are experts with using Facebook and WhatsApp.

"Visit us on Facebook"

Well said Larion...this is the EXACT reason why I believe a HUGE opportunity exists to educate consumers about this industry, and the reason why I started this thread. This is also the reason why I believe a HUGE opportunity exists to employ "outbound" sales strategies using the keyword "Brand" indifference to "Domain".

This is also the reason why I choose to register my domains at Go Daddy instead of at Epik, or any other registry for that matter. Like the keyword "Brand" is way more recognizable than "Domain", so is the name "Go Daddy" far more recognizable than "Epik" ....i would guess that 90% of the people I talk with about the domains know of Go Daddy and less than 1% of the the people I talk with have ever heard of Epik. Make sense?

Finally Larion, don't you find it interesting that I attract so much attention from the so called professional domainers here on NP when I identify problems and recommend solutions to improve the deplorable sell through rate of a paltry 1-2% of ones portfolio? Thanks for sharing!

 

[Steven McEvoy]

Just not sure what you meant by "my EYESS!!!" when looking at Brandonomics website? Personally I thought the site was rather crappy, but what do I know, I reg'd Brandenomics.com

It looks awful! I cant look at the website with getting a migraine. Who ever design that website should be ashamed of themselves...

 

[Joe N]

Also, i don't have the excess $$$ to invest in a developer, but I'm happy to share the proceeds that come out of such a relationship.

Rich, if you stopped registering names for a week or two, I think you'd probably save enough money to just pay someone to do the administrative work of listing your names for sale on a few marketplaces.

 

[trelgor]

Brand. I just learned today that in the last 10 years the intellectual property part of the valuation of the most successful businesses have gone from 20/80 to 80/20. Most of that is the brand.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

Bob...it's because "end users" and the general public are not familiar with the word/term "domain" that we felt it necessary to use the keyword "brand" to attract attention. Think of it in terms of a "loss leader" This is why I also plan to use the name "Go Daddy" as part of my "outbound" marketing strategy because I can guarantee that no one other than domainers have ever heard of Sedo, Uniregistry, Dan, Afternic and the list goes on. I want to be known as the brand pro who happens to sell url's aka domains. Make sense?

 

[trelgor]

It does make sense, and thank you for the explanation @ThatNameGuy, but wouldn't names be even more known than brands? I admit brands does sound better, I just worry a little bit that (based on my two quick reads of branding books) that it seems to me there is so much more than a name involved in a branding exercise. Nonetheless, I agree your explanation makes sense and thank you for providing it to me.
Bob

”Name” is too wide, IMO. ”Brand name” would be the least misleading, but that will always shorten down to ”Brand”. Few words we use offer an exact match with the subject.

 

[Joe N]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

You nailed it, Bob. I agree. A domain name is but one component that goes into developing a brand.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While I agree that it benefits us to further educate business owners on the value of a good domain name, I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population.

Respectfully, I disagree Joe, but it is maybe my past-educator side, or even volunteer-journalist side, more than my domainer side. Let me accept for a moment your argument that only business owners need to know. But who are business owners? Or who are people who might become business owners? Or might work in marketing, sales, promotion, legal, tech development, security, etc. for business owners? Or in organizations that support new businesses? It quickly is a lot of people! I can't find the link, and may remember it wrong, but I recall reading once that 1 in 20 people in Canada start a business at some point in their life. And about 20% of those are very young (college aged or near that).

But beyond that directly, there are more than might be thought running side gigs of one kind or another. Others are involved in organizations of every type that use domain names and websites. That is why Wix has more than 110 million active users, and similar services also gaining in popularity. Now most of these will not buy from the aftermarket, but I would argue that if they saw value in a name, and if it was really easy to do, some would in the price range $$$. I fully accept that some NamePros members don't want to deal with $$$ sales as is their right. But really it is where there is at least potential for growth.

I think the challenge is finding a scaleable and profitable business model for this segment of the market. Not easy.

Even more broadly, I think people knowing things is important. Way more people read about astrophysics, psychology, exotic travel, mountain climbing, etc. than ever directly need that information. That is good for society I think. The people who read sports pages is far more than those who ever actually were in competitive sports. People read about theatre, books, films etc. without planning to be a writer or actor.

They don't have websites, they don't run businesses, and they don't really care about the minutia of this industry.

I think you misunderstand what I meant (sorry I am often confusing) by educating. I in no way meant the minutia of this industry - I am not talking how to list a domain name, or use NameBio, etc. I am talking about telling the stories of how a name can be life changing for a business. I think that is interesting even to those without aspirations of setting up a business, but as argued above many people end up setting up a business even though that was not their original plan.

But I also disagree with what you say about most not having website. I volunteer for a local group and of the couple of dozen active people only one would be considered,I think, by your definition a business owner. But a number of them have web presences either personally or for organizations they involve with. Our organization itself has two domain names, and we work closely with three other community organizations, each of which have websites. Another retiree I volunteer with recently got a domain name and website for a self-published memoir she just published. Another has a one person tax operation out of his house. At lesst two others do art (I think one on website and one on Wix but not sure). Another is on executive of a community organization that recently rebranded to a shorter name in .org with an updated website. One I don't know as well has a little local theatre group. Not to mention the dozens of local businesses, all within a few blocks of where I live, who advertise in our volunteer newspaper. They each have websites, whether a local hair salon, a one-of restaurant, a dentist, a real estate office, etc.

Anyway, thank you for your, well-written as always and logically argued post, but I do disagree about educating people in general on domain names. I think if people were reading in the Globe about domain names they are more likely, when they do need one, to at least consider options other than simply the best they can hand-register.

Bob

 

[biggie]

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Hi

I can't co-sign on that Bob , and here's why:

I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population.

And I would even venture that making them aware of the domain name aftermarket would only serve to make our jobs harder in a lot of ways. More competition... more spamming of low quality names... and ultimately an even bigger stranglehold on the largest chunk of the profits for the industry's big players.

I certainly can agree with that.
just imagine.... if Elon the Musk, decided he wanted to buy domain names and throw his duckies in the ring
then he tell his investor buddies how he can outbid everybody and corner the domain aftermarket.

the ignorance of the general public, is what allowed the early birds to get the best worms, that are now seen as the cream of the crop.

but yeah on the other side of that, if a well known person mentions my domain name incidentally or a variation of it, then yes sir... I'm happy.

imo….

 

[Joe N]

Respectfully, I disagree Joe, but it is maybe my past-educator side, or even volunteer-journalist side, more than my domainer side. Let me accept for a moment your argument that only business owners need to know. But who are business owners? Or who are people who might become business owners? Or might work in marketing, sales, promotion, legal, tech development, security, etc. for business owners? Or in organizations that support new businesses? It quickly is a lot of people! I can't find the link, and may remember it wrong, but I recall reading once that 1 in 20 people in Canada start a business at some point in their life. And about 20% of those are very young (college aged or near that).

But beyond that directly, there are more than might be thought running side gigs of one kind or another. Others are involved in organizations of every type that use domain names and websites. That is why Wix has more than 110 million active users, and similar services also gaining in popularity. Now most of these will not buy from the aftermarket, but I would argue that if they saw value in a name, and if it was really easy to do, some would in the price range $$$. I fully accept that some NamePros members don't want to deal with $$$ sales as is their right. But really it is where there is at least potential for growth.

I think the challenge is finding a scaleable and profitable business model for this segment of the market. Not easy.

Even more broadly, I think people knowing things is important. Way more people read about astrophysics, psychology, exotic travel, mountain climbing, etc. than ever directly need that information. That is good for society I think. The people who read sports pages is far more than those who ever actually were in competitive sports. People read about theatre, books, films etc. without planning to be a writer or actor.


I think you misunderstand what I meant (sorry I am often confusing) by educating. I in no way meant the minutia of this industry - I am not talking how to list a domain name, or use NameBio, etc. I am talking about telling the stories of how a name can be life changing for a business. I think that is interesting even to those without aspirations of setting up a business, but as argued above many people end up setting up a business even though that was not their original plan.

But I also disagree with what you say about most not having website. I volunteer for a local group and of the couple of dozen active people only one would be considered,I think, by your definition a business owner. But a number of them have web presences either personally or for organizations they involve with. Our organization itself has two domain names, and we work closely with three other community organizations, each of which have websites. Another retiree I volunteer with recently got a domain name and website for a self-published memoir she just published. Another has a one person tax operation out of his house. At lesst two others do art (I think one on website and one on Wix but not sure). Another is on executive of a community organization that recently rebranded to a shorter name in .org with an updated website. One I don't know as well has a little local theatre group. Not to mention the dozens of local businesses, all within a few blocks of where I live, who advertise in our volunteer newspaper. They each have websites, whether a local hair salon, a one-of restaurant, a dentist, a real estate office, etc.

Anyway, thank you for your, well-written as always and logically argued post, but I do disagree about educating people in general on domain names. I think if people were reading in the Globe about domain names they are more likely, when they do need one, to at least consider options other than simply the best they can hand-register.

Bob

No need to apologize, Bob. Clarity and understanding can be a challenge on both ends of an online discussion.

Yeah, you make some great points, and I see where you're going: greater promotion and general acceptance of paying extra money for good names increases our likelihood of making sales. That's certainly a valid theory, and I'm sure there's truth in it... The more socially acceptable something becomes, the more people are willing to go along with it.

I still feel that the majority of those you mentioned (i.e. the "small-time" domain users, Wix users, and the people who surround them) will never see the need to spend even $XXX on a domain name. The value proposition just isn't there... Either they're a small, community business that relies on word of mouth and foot traffic, or they're a non-profit with a targeted base of clients/beneficiaries.

Either way, for a lot of these businesses, branding isn't a real big concern (nor should it be!). How much more volume would Nancy's hair salon get from Nancy.com than from NancysHairSalon.com? For Nancy, all that really matters is that she has an online presence, period.

Great points, though, Bob. In a big picture sense, I definitely get what you're saying.

 

[Joe N]

Agree. In most cases the value proposition is not there. When I was advising my daughter re her book site she, I think correctly, decided she wanted .ca and she wanted her name as site.

Even there, though, I think that the argument of the worth of a better domain name is sometimes there. Like many even tiny businesses advertise with our paper at high $$ to mid $$$ rates depending on size and colour of ad and other factors. Really if having a great name people would remember easily and correctly is say $900, and also makes people view your business with more respect, that is something like $4 per month ongoing expense, a small part of what they are paying for advertising monthly in just a single publication.

I think some of the general ideas of what makes a name good can help even those who end up hand registering (things like how it will look visually, radio test, possible misinterpretation, etc.). I think it is always good to help people make good decisions even when there is no payoff. But agree most local businesses or side-gigs will not, and should not, buy even at $$$.

I think though there is right now a big backlash against big companies owning our data and being able to make decisions in a heartbeat that can bring things down. That may represent an opportunity for domain investors. Those people who opted for Facebook pages, Wix sites without a domain name, other shared sites, etc. could with the right value proposition think about, now that they are a little successful, maybe look at what they could get for low to mid $$$, especially if it was on a payment plan.

Websites for social media influencers (seems like an oxymoron ) may be a good area for similar reasons. Yes, most will probably go with their name, but some may go with a cute phrase that defines their personal brand. Most influencers are young. I really think we need to get the idea of domain names part of educational curricula, although that is even more distinct from domain sales, I know the topic most on NamePros care about and rightly so.

If one could divert 1% of new Wix users to purchase a domain name it would represent almost 4000 domain sales per week.

Bob

More great points, Bob. Yeah, at the end of the day a more relatable/memorable brand probably even helps the mom & pop shops a bit.

Also solid points about data protection, and the potential conversion of social media users.

Okay, I'm on board! Now I'm off to scoop up a bunch of domain names that match popular Twitter handles! (joking...)

 

[BaileyUK]

I think you misunderstand what I meant (sorry I am often confusing) by educating. I in no way meant the minutia of this industry - I am not talking how to list a domain name, or use NameBio, etc. I am talking about telling the stories of how a name can be life changing for a business. I think that is interesting even to those without aspirations of setting up a business, but as argued above many people end up setting up a business even though that was not their original plan.

I seem to recall the general press was quite active in reporting 'High dollar' domain sales in the late 90's It probably was due to a 'No interest in that stuff' feedback at the time that it doesn't stir the general populations or press interest 20 years later. And I agree If today even the business publications aren't interested in this, why think there is a way forward in so called 'educating' - I personally love talking about about advances in Science and physics - Which makes me the biggest party-pooper in town if I don't keep a lid on it. Same with domain names. those that think that businesses need educating - really don't understand the priorities of running a business

 

[Joe N]

Bob...you're actually making my point why I strongly believe the sell through rate of domains is a deplorable 1-2% annually. Regardless, that leaves 98% of domains that remain on the shelf that according to Verisign are "hoarded"....by domainers everywhere. Let me share with you my personal experience why so few "end users" know or ever hear anything about this industry. I was introduced to this industry about 30 months ago now, and despite the fact I'd started, operated and yes NAMED dozens of businesses prior to that, I was absolutely amazed when I learned of the domain industry in 2017. Oh, I had bought domains before for my businesses and actually had a few of my names trademarked, but I had no idea there are tens of thousands around the world who consider themselves domainers Then just a little over a year ago I was having lunch with the former city manager of VirginiaBeach, Jim Spore who was appointed to head up ReInventHR.org, an organization formed to Rebrand Hampton Roads. As an FYI, Virginia Beach just one of the cities that makes up Hampton Roads has a population of 500K, and Hampton Roads that consists of 7 cities has a population of 1.7M. Now here's the kicker, when I told Jim at lunch I was headed to Vegas to Namescon where there would be over 1,200 people from around the world who would be attending the convention, Jim, sort of shocked says to me, "do you mean there are that many people involved in the name business from around the world?" Then he says, "how is it I didn't know you were in this industry before today?" To which my answer was, Jim, I just learned about it myself. Bob, I wasn't born yesterday, and the FACT this industry has been operating behind the main stream business world speaks volumes as to why 98% of domains are "hoarded" or sitting on the shelf. This is where I see opportunity that few "old timers" in this industry see, or don't want to see

I find it real strange the likes of Sedo, Uniregistry, Afternic, Flippa, SquadHelp....the biggest "hoarders" of them all don't come out and defend themselves. My intention is to blow their cover, and while Rob Monster of Epik has been begging me to move my business from Go Daddy to Epik to save a whopping $1.00 a reg, I would be crazy to, if the name "Go Daddy" will be a big part of my "outbound" strategy. That's all Bob, but I'll share a story with you later about my latest idea for HoBo Brands that puts more lipstick on this pig Thanks

Rich, your anecdotes are always interesting, but I'm still not clear on what concrete actions you're planning to take to improve sell-through rates for the whole industry.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

I have BrandEntrance.com which is also a play on Grand Entrance.

For sale now until I do some SH/Domain reseller thing with it.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I have BrandEntrance.com which is also a play on Grand Entrance.

For sale now until I do some SH/Domain reseller thing with it.

jamesall...BrandEntrance.com isn't bad. It's sort of HalfHash.com, but what do I know. I'm a narcissist

 

[Bob Hawkes]

i read "opportunity" into this.

I read opportunity in many things . I have agreed, repeatedly, that there are new ways that someone should try in selling domain names. As in business, many won't work out, but I bet a few will.

Is the domain "industry" a little too set in its ways? Quite possibly in my opinion. But the way to change that is, in my humble and optimistic world view, to try new things, to use logic and careful analysis. And putting effort into trying things.

I like a lot the careful and logical way that @Joe Nichols has contributed to this thread . I think we could all learn a lot from how he has structured his responses. Yes, it is more work responding in a precise way and truly reading long posts, but ultimately that pays off. It is very easy to make mistakes (trust me, I have made enough to be sure of this statement ) if we jump to defend an idea, rather than seeing if there is perhaps something we overlooked or did not think deeply enough about.

I have, over the few years, learned many things from many people on NamePros. I have learned from people who enthusiastically embraced new ideas I was thinking out loud about, but also learned from those who carefully expressed why they did not think the same.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

I decided to pose the question on Twitter:

Should domain experts similarly do outreach beyond direct connections to sales? (e.g. with youth, community groups, general public)​

The poll got 27 replies (not many, but more than the 3 or 4 of us who discussed it here yesterday).

• 74% said definitely
• 15% said now and then
• 11% said never

Bob

 

[BaileyUK]

HappyW

Learn how to edit within 30 minutes, Not over post / cut and paste additional 'inserted' quotes / and save us all a lot of repeated Bulloney.

Then Hopefully we can then continue to follow a thread in further development, without you filling half-a-page with mindless nonsense

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

I decided to pose the question on Twitter:

Should domain experts similarly do outreach beyond direct connections to sales? (e.g. with youth, community groups, general public)​

The poll got 27 replies (not many, but more than the 3 or 4 of us who discussed it here yesterday).

• 74% said definitely
• 15% said now and then
• 11% said never

Bob

if one only knew what a "Domain Expert" really is

 

[BaileyUK]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

Surely (that general public angle) that's like trying to sell a $5,000 restaurant coffee machine to a home user. because he loves coffee

 

[ThatNameGuy]

You have inspired my new ideas. Now many countries have begun to implement local protection trade policies, and political contests have been reflected in the business activities of enterprises. This may help us realize that our future sales will be tough: unless a US company, any non-global company in other countries will choose cctld instead of com because they mistakenly believe that the data exchanged on .com is not safe.

It seems I've inspired quite a few members HappyW. Speaking of "sales will be tough", with 98% of domains staying in the barn every year, i would say sales are already tough You can only bury your head in the sand so long before you suffocate

Since this thread was started a little over a week ago I was inspired to spend $25.00 on the following names; BrandOriginator.com, BrandEnomics.com and RebrandPros.com. Granted according to my critics I suck at creating names, but I'm guessing the devil must make me do it.

Anyway HappyW, i've always known, When the going gets tough, the TOUGH GET GOINGThanks for the inspiration

 

[Joe N]

While there may be times when a specific domain name adds to the conversation by being mentioned, for the most part I think it is irrelevant.

Great point here, Bob.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Surely (that general public angle) that's like trying to sell a $5,000 restaurant coffee machine to a home user. because he loves coffee

I have no clue what this comment has to do with the post it was linked to. That post was a poll about whether outreach unrelated to sales was something our community should do. Whether as a public service we should offer to speak to youth groups, a university class, volunteer organizations, etc. about domain names and related topics. I am encouraged that most who responded said we should. Twitter does not allow you to vote in your own polls, but that is how I would have voted. I know from the prior discussion you do not feel that way, and that is fine.

Bob