question "End User" Perceptions

[ThatNameGuy]

BrandPro - invalid - NamePro??? What name resonates most with end users? "Brand", "Domain" or "Name"? I know from my experience many business people don't really know what a domain is, however they know what a brand, and a name are.

I believe this is why most domains, 98 of 100 are hoarded and stay on the shelf. Any way you cut it, that's deplorable

Regardless of the definition of "Brand", and the belief an "end user" relates to it more than "Domain", don't you think a marketplace for domain names would best be identified using the term "Brand" like; BrandableBrands.com

Any other thoughts, views or opinions? Thanks

 

[Bob Hawkes]

That being said, i just knew education via "outbound" sales and marketing strategies has an excellent chance of working. Is that hard to understand?

So no quote? Their central tenets as I read it were there should be no price cap because other people add most to the prices to end users, and those other people have no useful purpose as per this statement:

"Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses."​

So whether you flip it on day 1, or after holding it for 50 years, in their eyes there is nothing added. It is not that better outbound techniques would help. After encouraging the aftermarket for many years, Verisign suddenly pivoted to say the aftermarket is the problem. But I don't read that it is because it is slow or inefficient. It is money paid by end-users that does not go to Verisign is the problem. And since there is that money, don't cap our prices, we don't add much anyway.... or so the argument goes.

I am all for education for many reasons. I am all for better general public knowledge of domain names. I am all for being creative and outside the box thinking. I am all for finding new ways to more efficiently sell domain names.

Can we concentrate on specifically how to do those things? Those who have tried new things, even if they did not work out, are in a particularly strong position to make important contributions.

While there may be times when a specific domain name adds to the conversation by being mentioned, for the most part I think it is irrelevant.

We should all be aware of how efficiently indexed on Google NamePros is. Let us be positive in searching for more efficient ways we can help users secure domain names that will add significant value to what they want to do.

Thanks

Bob

 

[Josh R]

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Verisign should want to be part of this since they're the largest public company involved in the domain industry, They're here in Virginia and there's a good chance they'll work with me on a project like this, and I'd find it really strange if they wouldn't

I would be cautious of company name dropping @ThatNameGuy. Even if they were potentially interested (which I doubt) seeing the idea discussed in prior on a public forum might well poison any possibility.

Maybe the likes of Go Daddy, Uniregistry, Flippa, Sedo etc. will step up to the plate to "Make Something Happen" This is something that "should" have been done long ago,

While in some ways I agree that more public education re domain names is someone's responsibility (ICANN's perhaps?), what I have in mind is not mainly that (although I agree a few resources would be helpful). Rather, in the same way that scientists, authors, astronomy enthusiasts, bird watchers, environmentalists, history buffs, business owners, medical practitioners, etc. regularly volunteer to interact with community groups, without any compensation or even down the road view of a financial return indirectly, if we really want the domain "business" to be viewed positively, at least some involved in it should be willing to do this.

I guess in this as in many things, while it is great to think big or what others should do, maybe the most important thing is to consider what we should be willing to do personally. True, probably we only make a tiny local difference, but sometimes that changes things in ways you can never imagine.

Is @BaileyUK right that the reason stories about domain names are no longer as prominent in the news because there did not seem interest? Quite possibly or even probably he is right, and also with the implication that others would not be interested in learning anything about domain names. We won't know until someone tries.

In another thread it was mentioned that a Domain Name Day in which attention is focussed on domain names in a positive way should be held. I continue to think that is a great idea.

Bob

 

[BaileyUK]

thanks Bob, Yes those that think that initial "All ears" response they get when they mention domain names and the opportunities it presents to friends or even in just general conversation, Normally stems from the fact that indeed it is new to them. I've found most people very responsive , keen to know more But, trust me that interest soon wanes , you try developing holding their interest beyond say a second or third conversation. In general your going to find people avoiding you. Sure 'Computer Geeks' will probably explore but they normally are already aware of the market, just not the $$$$ involved. It is seen as a Geeky hobby and that sums up the response you will get after trying to follow up any initial enthusiasm.

And of course it does depend how honest you are about the investment risk. Those that try and Pretend they are making a fortune -(with very little sales to show) well in the most part, that's someone trying to deceive others as much as they deceive themselves

*Apologize for trying to be funny about the 5k coffee machine , probably too many brandies in my own coffee last night

 

[OnlineBusiness.com]

but I do less work, than you

I don't do the work, my team does

 

[xynames]

If a co. is looking for a brand it knows this. If it is looking for an exact match domain it knows this also. Once it contacts you for a given domain it’s not going to up and change what it’s looking for and even if it did I assume whatever domain it sought out to contact you over is going to fit more of one category versus the other.

With any domain as far as inbound you must wait for the end user to find your domain and trying to convince him that it is a good domain for him goes without saying
https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-sold-a-domain-for-xx-xxx-now-its-parked.1160544/
but trying to shoehorn it into something it’s not is a mistake.

And building some sort of visual presentation for each domain stating what the domain could be used for could backfire if the usage presented is narrow in scope. Maybe you offer images to illustrate what a great domain this would be to sell washing machines when the potential end user wanted the name for a tech start up, and now you’ve turned him off.

These “visual aids” are more needed for garbage brandables that wouldn’t sell otherwise versus top exact match domains that for the most part speak and stand on their own.

And by the way That Name Guy / Bulloney, you’ve been musing at NP about the need for “visual aids” to help domain sales for years now it seems, and yet I don’t think you even have basic For Sale landing pages with a Contact Us form for your domains let alone any of the complicated build outs you’ve been talking about.

 

[xynames]

Brandables, over all:
Unless the word has something really to do with whatever the end user is doing or selling, In my book the biggest problem with brandables is that one is often as good as another.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I see. Well, the hardest thing in finding a partner for you is that it's unclear what your endgame/goal is. Just looking from my perspective.

Do you want to build out turnkey brands, domain included? Do you want to just sell domains? Are you looking to get a foot in the door at marketing agencies? Branding agencies?

Maybe it's time for you to just write up a business plan. In my experience once you start writing down what you want and need you get a much better insight on what it is that you're trying to achieve.

Some honest advice.

Thanks Dirk...i was just asked a similar question about endgame/goal by another NP member to which I answered, it's to educate and expose the "end user" business world to the brand/domain industry. I'm not sure if you can tell Dirk, but I'm having a lot of fun doing what I'm doing, and I'm a believer that if I'm having fun the $$$ will follow.

Yes is the answer to "just selling domains", and Yes is the answer to "building turnkey brands to include the domain." While I don't know what will happen, another NP member just reached out to me either because they felt sorry for me, or they thought they saw something in me that I just so happen to see in myself. Call it braggadocious or narcissism, but I'll leave it to others to be the judge of that

Finally, I was just able to give you a deserved "like" after six months of being restricted. It feels great to be out of the penalty box, and I promise to be more careful in the future about how I treat others. And as an fyi, here is a sample of some of the logo work someone has done for me. It's this sort of thing a new tech/development partner can help me with for my landing pages etc. Thx

 

[Joe N]

Honestly Joe...i don't know why you care so much You needn't worry about me...there's a techie/developer type with experience just waiting for an opportunity like I have to offer. I'm looking for someone to help me turn this industry on it's head

I care about everyone on here, Rich. I know you're looking for a long-term partner, but this is separate.

I'm just talking about getting your names visible so you might have a chance to sell some passively while you work on the long-term plans.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It does make sense, and thank you for the explanation @ThatNameGuy, but wouldn't names be even more known than brands? I admit brands does sound better, I just worry a little bit that (based on my two quick reads of branding books) that it seems to me there is so much more than a name involved in a branding exercise. Nonetheless, I agree your explanation makes sense and thank you for providing it to me.
Bob

 

[Joe N]

I can guarantee that no one other than domainers have ever heard of Sedo, Uniregistry, Dan, Afternic and the list goes on.

Rich, Sedo and Afternic alone get several million visitors every month. You're saying it's all domain investors?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

The value proposition just isn't there... Either they're a small, community business that relies on word of mouth and foot traffic, or they're a non-profit with a targeted base of clients/beneficiaries.

Agree. In most cases the value proposition is not there. When I was advising my daughter re her book site she, I think correctly, decided she wanted .ca and she wanted her name as site.

Even there, though, I think that the argument of the worth of a better domain name is sometimes there. Like many even tiny businesses advertise with our paper at high $$ to mid $$$ monthly rates depending on size and colour of ad and other factors. Really if having a great name people would remember easily and correctly is say $900, and also makes people view your business with more respect, that is something like $4 per month ongoing expense, a small part of what they are paying for advertising monthly in just a single publication.

I think some of the general ideas of what makes a name good can help even those who end up hand registering (things like how it will look visually, radio test, possible misinterpretation, etc.). I think it is always good to help people make good decisions even when there is no payoff. But agree most local businesses or side-gigs will not, and should not, buy even at $$$.

I think though there is right now a big backlash against big companies owning our data and being able to make decisions in a heartbeat that can bring things down. That may represent an opportunity for domain investors. Those people who opted for Facebook pages, Wix sites without a domain name, other shared sites, etc. could with the right value proposition think about, now that they are a little successful, maybe look at what they could get for low to mid $$$, especially if it was on a payment plan.

Websites for social media influencers (seems like an oxymoron ) may be a good area for similar reasons. Yes, most will probably go with their name, but some may go with a cute phrase that defines their personal brand. Most influencers are young. I really think we need to get the idea of domain names part of educational curricula, although that is even more distinct from domain sales, I know the topic most on NamePros care about and rightly so.

If one could divert 1% of new Wix users to purchase a domain name it would represent almost 4000 domain sales per week.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

In my experience the vast majority of people know what a domain name is, though they are likely completely unaware of the market itself.

You keep educating the buyers Bulloney. I will keep making the sales.
Works for me.

Brad

 

[Joe N]

Joe....obviously we're headed in two different directions. I feel like the pioneer who just know's there's gold in them there hills The thing I do know is the opportunity exists to increase domain sales via targeted "outbound" strategies. Verisign told us last year it exists, and that's all the confirmation I need to keep moving toward the goal

Rich, I feel like you're brushing me off after I took the time to provide detailed answers to all your questions. I was hoping for a give and take here...

I get the big picture of what you're saying. I like it. I'm on board. I would love to increase the public's general awareness and acceptance of domain name value if it means we all get to sell more! That would be amazing. So how do we do it? Let's talk details. What's your plan?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Verisign told us last year it exists, and that's all the confirmation I need to keep moving toward the goal

Could you please quote the part that of the blog post you are referring to? To me it said that the aftermarket added nothing essentially and they were promoting the idea that end users should be registering direct. I don''t see that they were any fonder of outbound to inbound. But maybe I overlooked something so just asking if you could please post the segment where you think they said that. Thanks.
Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

don't come out and defend themselves

Did you possibly miss seeing this superb argument from @Zak Muscovitch, legal representative for ICA. I think he does a superb job and would ask you to please give the article a read, even though it is long.

For reference, this site will show you the membership of ICA - many of the businesses you note are members.

Did you miss attending the panel session on the proposed .com increases and related issues around the Verisign contract at NamesCon? Many points were well expressed in that session. I do realize it was unfortunately scheduled in parallel with a very popular other session and many did not attend.

I think that there was indeed, on multiple fronts, a logical and sound counter-argument to the Verisign bog post made (including several threads here on NamePros). The fact that they never followed up with the promised second posting, and that responsibility for the blog changed shortly thereafter, is I believe partly due to the fact that they recognized that the post had gone too far.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Bob...i read "opportunity" into this. Sorry if you don't.

https://blog.verisign.com/domain-na...om-price-caps-were-passed-along-to-consumers/

Could you please quote the specific part to support your statement that they said what was needed was more effective outbound, as I requested. Thank you.

This is how I responded to the Verisign post. It is long, but the sections on speculative investment and the role of the domain aftermarket are particularly relevant.

I spent quite a while on the Verisign post, and just not sure where you see it says that better outbound by domain investors is the solution. But maybe I missed it so ask you to quote where it is and I will reread it with an open mind.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

No Joe...you said; "Anyway, I'm starting to move away from the outbound model" You really needn't waste anymore time with me....you do your thing Joe and I'll do mine....Have a nice life!

Rich, these exchanges are far from a waste of time. They benefit all members whether they're actively engaged in outbound marketing or not; but the benefit only arises from constructive discussions and clear explanations of ideas and experiences.

I do still conduct outbound marketing at times, and I enjoy discussing its merits. There are a host of challenges that come with doing it well (many of which I myself have yet to learn), and newer members who are considering using outbound strategies can benefit from these kinds of details.

 

[DpakH]

I think some famous persons can be called as brand.They are in the field for long time,earned name and fame universally.
But for a domain as long as it makes profit for a comps,business owner may b in no position for change.
The word domain remains new to many..
I wonder if there is any curriculum in education dept.globally
The word brand might be used by a comps but may not b excepted by some.just my opinion
Thanks
DpakH

 

[ThatNameGuy]

This post was timely. I just registered OnlineBusinessBrands.com yesterday for future use and I couldn't agree with you more. Presenting domains as "brands" seems to be an easier way for end users to relate as many of them won't see the inherent value of a domain name as is.

The approach I take is to add value to the domain name ie. logo + mockup + social accounts then present to end users the "brand" for sale. Of course the added time it takes to do this for each domain has to make sense and the ROI needs to be there.

But in my experience it's an easier way to increase the value perception of your domains for sale. I'm currently working on a system to streamline these processes, including outreach so hopefully I can share more in the near future.

I like OnlineBusinessBrand, and I too have about a dozen domains with the keyword "Brand" in the name; ArkBrands.com, BrandableRx.com, ReBrandRx.com and Brandenomics to name a few. Of those I named Nameworth values ArkBrands at $44,500, and while I don't think it's worth that much, it may have that sort of value to a branding company of which there are thousands of them worldwide. This is where a smart "outbound" sales program might help.

Note, I've discovered that re-banding is almost as big a deal as branding itself, thus I own ReBrandRx.com

Thanks, and I'll try to reach to you through PM if I have anything of a sensitive nature to share. Good Luck!

 

[branding]

http://brandonomics.com/

Need to say more?

 

[branding]

Gaaah.

I told myself I was done hand regging today.

Then I saw this thread and added four more:

B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r s (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p i n g (.com)
B r a n d D e v e l o p i n g (.com)

I couldn't figure out which one I liked most, and before I knew it.

Like the last one. Can't believe that was just sitting there.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Like the last one. Can't believe that was just sitting there.

It's been "just sitting there" since July 25th of this year.

Here's how my registration cycle / train of thought went:

See this thread > remembered Brand Name Developing dropped today > checked to see if Brand Name Developers was available, which it was > then checked if Brand Name Developer was available, which it was > then figured there's no use regging Brand Name Developing if I was going to reg those two > until I last second checked to see what Brand Developing was, and to my surprise, found it available. > figured I was going to get the shorter, I had to get the longer, if I insisted on getting the -er and -ers. Hence, how I ended up with all four.

Edit + Ramble: writing -er and -ers prompted me to check the .com availability. ErAndErs.com is available for hand reg. Think his and hers. Was registered for a year in 2017, then dropped.

 

[branding]

It's been "just sitting there" since July 25th of this year.

Here's how my registration cycle / train of thought went:

See this thread > remembered Brand Name Developing dropped today > checked to see if Brand Name Developers was available, which it was > then checked if Brand Name Developer was available, which it was > then figured there's no use regging Brand Name Developing if I was going to reg those two > until I last second checked to see what Brand Developing was, and to my surprise, found it available. > figured I was going to get the shorter, I had to get the longer, if I insisted on getting the -er and -ers. Hence, how I ended up with all four.

Edit + Ramble: writing -er and -ers prompted me to check the .com availability. ErAndErs.com is available for hand reg. Think his and hers. Was registered for a year in 2017, then dropped.

Thanks for elaborating It's a lot like my own chain of though when doing handregs actually.

I've not been doing many handregs lately... for some reason. They've always brought me decent sales so should dedicated some time every day again to catch some of those rough diamonds myself.

I like the excitement of finding those. It's way more satisfactory than the usual backorder or auctions