End User Agreement - Who has one?

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by MapleDots, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:29 AM.

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  1. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    It's an example and not for our industry, that is why I am asking if anyone has used one or has an example of one.
     
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  2. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    From this topic:
    https://www.namepros.com/blog/top-t...to-1-000-in-three-weeks.1059723/#post-6520334

    Please continue the conversation here:




     
  3. leftfielder

    leftfielder Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Let me ask you this: would you want sign an end user agreement each time you bought a name from NP or GD, etc? As I said previously, be true to yourself. Don't take this opportunity to switch things up.
     
  4. sharfab

    sharfab Established Member

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    I recently did some research about this topic. It was also mentioned that another domain owner used this type of agreement for the sale of their domain name. What I found out was that NO domain owner use a "End User Agreement". There is NO such language used when selling domain names. The correct terminology is "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT" and that agreement is only used when there is only a LEASE agreement and not selling a domain name. And do not confuse the word "User Agreement " which is what most of us have to agree to when we use a internet-based service or mobile app.
    If a domain owner choose to draft up an agreement with stipulations then of course that is his right. But speaking with other domain owners, this is not the norm as a practice for most people who buy and sell domain names and all of them honestly said that if any type of useage agreement have to be signed then they would walk away from that purchase...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 9:43 PM
  5. leftfielder

    leftfielder Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Contradicting my post above, it's exactly what we do each time we claim ownership to a name. It just isn't obvious due to ignorance, for example. i Would also assume that we are bound by terms of our registrars. Theoretically, if maple created their own portfolio portal, they could slip it in, but you'd need a better reason to be super extra.
     
  6. sharfab

    sharfab Established Member

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  7. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    I think you know the answer to that but I am talking about an end user masquerading as someone else. I would probably have taken the offer but I think the guy is not being honest with me so therefore he is not getting the domain. Plain and simple.

    I have drawn up an agreement, it is in it's first rough draft and I will take the weekend to finish it up. If they contact me again it will be an easy conversation... 5k with agreement and 25k without.

    That's the beauty of having my own domaining business, I play it by my rules. He contacted me, I did not solicit him so he plays by my rules or he has to go play somewhere else.

    I don't understand any of the "be true to yourself stuff" quite literally I don't want to be ripped off by a big corporation pretending to be a small fry and then getting my domain at a bargain price. An agreement will assure transparency and force them to reveal the end use for my domain.

    Actually I am a bit surprised that nobody else does it, I cannot possibly be alone with this.

    Let say you own a domain like StarDollars.com and someone calls you up and says they want it for their local business to use as coupon points for their clients. You negotiate based on the fact that you probably won't get more than 10k from a small sized business. After the domain sells you find a national ad campaign for Starbucks promoting their new StarDollars.com website to collect your starnucks points. How ripped off were you, would you have sold it if you were told the truth or would you have asked 100k seeing what the end use was.

    I know a lot of you are saying put a value on a domain and be done with it. Well I wish you lots of luck with that and I am sure you will make some money but it sucks knowing you left tens of thousands on the table because someone negotiated under false pretenses. So far the majority of advice has been, just accept it and move on.

    Wow... really? (n)
     
  8. leftfielder

    leftfielder Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes...really. Your original question was who has one. The answer is one. And that's you. If you don't like our answers, make it a case study (or not) and show us how effective it is. We're not here to sell to each other, we're here to learn something new, every single day!
     
  9. Nikhil Jain

    Nikhil Jain Active Member VIP

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    Surely you've thought about something and are moving in a direction with a thought process.

    If possible do keep us posted with the process. May be we'll get to learn a new picture in negotiation.
     
  10. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    And you are answering for the community as a whole or just from experience?

    I appreciate your comments leftfielder but if there is one thing I can say with all certainty is that I am not the only one. There are some super smart domainers on this forum who have probably been in similar situations, I would be surprised if at least a few of them did not have an End User Agreement of some sorts.

    It is very common in other businesses, coming from the car business we even had agreements that prohibited clients from selling the cars out of country. You had to sign the agreement to get the car and if the car ended up out of country you owed quite a penalty. Those cars were very much in demand and that is why the client signed the contract. If we felt each client was honest with us then we would not have needed those agreements.
     
  11. sharfab

    sharfab Established Member

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    I see that you are still using the word" End User Agreement" and that maybe where you are getting confused. The correct terminology is "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ". You are leaving out the word "LICENSE" and that is where your problem lies. As I explained in my previous post that it only applies if you are licensing your domain name. You can cross reference and validate everything I mentioned with a lil research and "Google". Someone not being able to take a car out of the country can only apply if a person is leasing a vehicle because it is not totally paid for. Most times when a person/company takes ownership of what they purchase then they are free to do as they pleased. Just think back at all the tv reports when people brought expensive items from the owners then burned them or crashed them just because they owned them free and clear. Being passionate about your domain is your right, but don't let your passion obscure your business negotiations...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 12:53 AM
  12. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Nope, it is an End User Agreement - as in how the domain is used. It is not a license to use the domain

    My Lawyer will put on the final touches but I am not licensing the domain, I am simply stating how the domain can be used for a period of time. A so called End User Agreement for a period of lets say 1-2 years.

    As far as taking a car out of the country that was for purchased vehicles and we signed hundreds of them. I ran a Mercedes-Benz franchise and at that time client were prohibited from selling them out of country by an agreement called a NON EXPORT AGREEMENT. The high end cars were hard to get and people pretending to be end users were buyng them and shipping them to the US. With the higher US dollar that made for a huge profit margin to the seller.

    Am am not talking about leases of any kind and I don't need google for that, we did it for almost 10 years until exporting was no longer deemed to be a problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 1:18 AM
  13. Brandworthy

    Brandworthy Established Member

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    For the love of God man. You're talking about a legal agreement with stipulations for a $5K domain sale. This should require legal council on both sides, and probably involve various back and forths to finalise, incurring legal fees likely in excess of the transaction value. Who in their right mind would want to get involved in such a colossal waste of time and money over a $5K transaction?

    It's absolutely important to find out as much as you can about prospective buyers, but 90%+ of leads will try to hide their true identities given that many know that domain pricing often depends on who the buyer is. We'd all do the same if we knew the price we're asked to pay for a good or service varies based on how much money we have. So absolutely try to price your domain to take as much money off the table, but unless you have a stellar name forget about End User Agreements or other caveat-ridden contracts. You're more likely to regret losing the sale completely a lot more than you will leaving some money on the table. With the name in question I also think you'll be waiting a long time for the next lead to come along. I'd take the money and run...

    Sell the name or don't sell the name, but stop wasting time and energy on this fool's errant.
     
  14. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    No, it requires one trip to have it looked at by my lawyer. The end user will be given no choice but to sign or he cannot buy the domain, very simple. The agreement can be used numerous times in the future and therefore is something well worth pursuing.

    Again you need to realize it has nothing to do with a 5k sale. If I was sure of how the domain were being used that would not be an issue. Since I suspect the client is lying to me it could be the difference between a 5k or a 25k transaction.

    Foolish would be leaving money on the table. Having a legal agreement on file should such a situation re-occur is due prudence.

    I'm sure we have all seen domains sold where the seller said if he knew it was so and so buying then he would have raised the price. Brandworthy I am happy that you make enough money to call this a fools errand but I assure you that proper contracts and agreements make for good business practices. There are a number of assumptions in your posts and I assure you I will have no regrets if I do not sell the domain. The only regret I will have is if the buyer gets the domain pretending to be someone who he is not.
     
  15. Brandworthy

    Brandworthy Established Member

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    Enough is a relative term. I do know that if I was in the buyer's shoes and I was asked to enter into a contract binding me to certain uses I'd probably go look for easier alternatives.
    This is not a proper contract IMO. Imagine buying a home or a car and being told what you can/cannot do with it by the previous owner? If we were talking about a very valuable domain you might have a valid argument to add conditions to a sale agreement, but the name you have in the image is a poor one, and warrants taking whatever you can get and running IMO.
    This is a good position to be in. Domaining is as much about knowing when to say no as it it is about when to say yes. But take care not to obsess about what happens after a sale concludes. Take your gains when you can and move on to the next deal. Just my opinion, and at this point I'll leave this thread since we all surely have more productive ways to apply ourselves :)

    Good luck with the sale regardless. I hope it does complete.
     
  16. DomainGist

    DomainGist Active Member VIP

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    Sounds like a silly idea to me to be honest, and a good way to scare away a real end user....

    .... because then you are asking 5k + the cost that they will have to pay to get the lawyer they have on retention to read your agreement and rubber stamp it.

    And perhaps they've got an alternative in mind which doesn't require all the ball ache of having to check a legal document as if they are purchasing real estate.

    And who cares if its an investor who is buying your domain? And who cares if its somebody who has put in lots of man hours finding a buyer for your domain?

    If I told you today that I could sell a domain of yours for $6000 but would keep $1000 as my brokerage fee and pass on $5000 to you, that sound like a fair deal to you? It does me....

    .... Now what if I told you that I'd give you $5000 for your domain in cash, because I had an end user who wanted it for $7000.... but I'd pay you up front so if the deal fell through ALL of the risk is on me.... sound like a fair deal? It does to me.

    Either you are prepared to sell that domain for $5000 or you aren't. K.I.S.S.... keep it simple stupid.

    Also, some companies use agents to acquire domains for them and don't want their identities revealed. You are gambling on the very small 1/10000 chance that facebook are the buyers for your domain, just because of a similar sale reported on namepros?

    Just decide how much you want for the domain, ask that.... and they either accept or decline. Doesn't matter who the buyer is, if they meet your valuation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 6:54 AM
  17. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Great I'm glad to hear your points of view but I am following through with my draft and will keep it on file for when I think its appropriate to use it. I get all the points of the the members who think it cannot or should not be done, however I strongly feel it is appropriate in this case.

    I never thought I was a trail blazer with this, I was hoping someone had a similar draft already in use. It will be interesting to see if and when a situation arises where anyone else feels it would be necessary to have a similar agreement.
     
  18. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Established Member

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    I Don't think your so much a trail-blazer, more just being Unique in your request. So, no I don't see anyone following your lead at anytime in the future.
    It was very helpful to all the members that you should share the domain in question, hence the amount of responses. it's one of those domains where I think all of us would put in the ground-work to try to establish the potential buyer but, equally understand and accept that it would require a good deal of investment (or an existing internet presence) to turn into something high-profile. If you had buyers lining-up (I accept you had more than one approach) then your negotiation skills should be what you'd be relying on to up the price . Why don't you just try that mid-way point of asking for $10k as a figure for a fast completion. I've got a feeling that even if you'd gone ahead with the agreement and somehow created a bigger closing price, you still may have had that "Sellers Remorse" that we all get at one time or another.

    All the best for the Completion
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM
  19. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Thanks @BaileyUK for the well thought out response.

    I have already decided not to sell the domain because I have had 3 anonymous offers to purchase. My gut tells me I should know who I am dealing with in this case. So the whole issue about buyers/sellers regret is off the table. I am going to proceed in drafting up my agreement and see where it goes.

    The buyer cannot say no because I have already said that. I have stated clearly I wish to know the end use of the domain before I sell it. So far none of my offers were willing to disclose that and since the highest offer was 5k I shut the negotiations down. I am preparing a document and if another offer comes in I will decide on how to handle it.

    If they tell me end user and can provide me with verifiable information then we can negotiate in good faith. If I get a generic email address and vague responses I will present them with the agreement. It still does not matter what they say or do because my decision about the 5k has already been made. I have nothing to lose and am going ahead to see the possibility of making such an agreement.

    Now I understand everyone's points but for me it makes sense and I will proceed forward.

    I know I have had some passionate nay sayers in response to this topic but that is what makes namePros such a great tool. I can see the communities response and I can take use that information to help form my opinion.

    The costs for legal is not an issue because I have a number of contracts for my businesses drafted up by a para legal and they get signed off by my lawyer. All in all its not such an expensive process and since I have a registered business I can write it off as an expense.

    Keep the comments coming I will try to respond to each of you but please keep it polite, remember we are all on the same team.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 10:34 AM
  20. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Assume the decision to draft the agreement has been made....

    Can anyone contribute a structured paragraph of what they would like to see
     
  21. sharfab

    sharfab Established Member

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    I doubt if any members here would give any better "structured paragraph" about drafting an agreement then the "lawyer " you hired in your previous post. What you are now about to do is start second guessing yourself by still seeking opinions from others when you have already retained legal counsel. Don't continue to further distract yourself and possibly a good sale. Let your lawyer do the job you are paying him to do...
     
  22. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Something like...

    The above mentioned domain
    Thank you so much for your response.

    I doubt any ordinary lawyer will have the knowledge accumulated in this community. A little feedback and contributions from members is always appreciated.
     
  23. Mister Funsky

    Mister Funsky Active Member VIP

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    Not to side track your question above, but in the last few days I have had inquiries as to if I were willing to sell a particular domain. All the requests came through my anonymous who is contact and they all had a gmail addy. This is on a name I've had for a few years and it pertains to a specific item (very obscure). After all the inquiries I started breaking down the name and searching bits. It turns out 4 of the letters are associated with a new software application created by one of the biggies out there. The rest of the name leaves a scientific phrase (again, very obscure).

    Btw, when I responded with my throw away email addy with a couple basic questions (what is your phone #, etc) I got no responses. The sale price just went up ten fold and now I have added a lease option. May be asking you how much you will charge me for the template you are designing! :xf.smile:
     
  24. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    I am in the initial stages of drafting and have a lot of work left. I will work on it this weekend and I and anyone else who wants to contribute can post here and we can assemble a rough draft to send to legal.
     
  25. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Yup, that is what I am talking about. I don't necessarily want to lose any sales but when I get cases like this I want to at least have an option of an end user agreement which stipulates that the domain must be used for said period, as specified, and cannot be resold for a said period of time.

    Anyone that says it cannot be done... yes it can... it has been done in other industries and there is no reason why we cannot attempt it in hours. I am looking for like minded members who might be interested in the draft and sharing of information.

    I am not negating the posts of the individuals not in favor, I have read your posts and understand/respect your opinions but right now I am looking more for feedback from individuals that might entertain the notion of such an agreement.
     

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