question Domain industry is dying slowly?

[souren]

Since beginning of the internet .com .net .org were always the best option for any business or personal use
names were too limited in a sense that generated a solid valuable market for the domaining business
and domain investors

Most of us as the people who are buying this so called land , imo are unaware of the fact that everyday new lands ,are being generated by the Icann ( Internet's Allah )

every year 10 to 20 new domain extension were being released to the public witch in my opinion wouldn't create a serious problem
until 2014 and beyond where +400 tld has been released to the public witch followed similarly and here were are in 2017 with 882 domain extension
witch in my opinion make owning a premium name easy,cheap, for any potential buyer
witch at the end will affect the tld market valuation
imagine if you own solarenergy.com in 2000 and the value would be a good $$$,$$$
then time passes and here we are in 2017 where you can have names like
solar.energy energy.solar and more.. combinations for
a reg fee or very cheap price
Then it would seriously affect the valuation of solarenergy.com
I see a world (in near future )where anyone can have a short and premium looking domain
that he just registered for 10$
and a market witch looses it's value everyday


That's just my thought about the future of this industry
What you guys think about this?

 

[poweredbyme]

Whole internet (.com TLD) is oldish, is 2019-1985= 34 years old.
34 years is way too long in our tech age.
All major companies even small ones bought their domains long years ago. Only new startups, bloggers/hobbyists would need a second hand domain. Domain demand is way too small compared to second hand domain supply. Domain industry is already dead.

 

[johnnie018]

There is Domains themselves? They will be fine and fine for a long time. But the 'domain industry'? ............what industry? Ask yourself, who is looking out for domainers that has some real teeth in politics and commercialism?

I have preached and will always preach that while domain investing is a good side thing (and there are people who've had some great successes but they are an exception), you really need to become an entrepreneur with your best domain(s) while domaining.

But no one listens to me.

The parking decline stuff is valid, the rest is a bit of a whinge and not anything solid.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Domain demand is way too small compared to second hand domain supply. Domain industry is already dead.

I don't agree, at least not entirely. Some estimates say that 50,000 new businesses start every day. That is many orders of magnitude more than the number of domains sold in a day, even if we assume NameBio only represents 10% of the total market. Many businesses are either hand registering a domain name or using a service such as Wix (they now have 110 million users). There is potential for a more robust domain aftermarket if we can better serve the needs of the new business owners, who will be primarily in China and India in the coming decade.
Bob

 

[BionicMan]

When Mike Garguilo acquired vpn.com he stated something in the order of 8 million 800 searches a month. Now a few years later it appears to be 16 million and some change searches. Quality .coms single dict will remain relevant, quality 2 words .com, and single dict .net / org and short name .net / org imo. gTLD's outside of a few will remain pump and dumps, ccTLD's will probably have their place awhile being so similiar to .com. If you can't see the rising in short name, and dict .org / .net then you need to wipe your eyes.

Just my opinion.

 

[poweredbyme]

I don't agree, at least not entirely. Some estimates say that 50,000 new businesses start every day. That is many orders of magnitude more than the number of domains sold in a day, even if we assume NameBio only represents 10% of the total market. Many businesses are either hand registering a domain name or using a service such as Wix (they now have 110 million users). There is potential for a more robust domain aftermarket if we can better serve the needs of the new business owners, who will be primarily in China and India in the coming decade.
Bob

If an industry is not worth to invest, I call it dead. Take cigarette industry as an example. It's declining, is not actually dead but is destined to dead. Smoking cigarette is getting restricted in more public places, etc. In the past people were smoking anywhere, demand was higher. Would you invest in cigarette industry, would you consider buying shares of a cigarette brand to hold it for long term? If not, it's a dead industry, even if it's still active. Domain industry is declining, is not worth to invest for long term, so is dead. Of course you may pick particular domains and may make profit. You can make profit even in a declining idustry. It's not impossible but would be very difficult. 34 years is too much time in a tech related industry. Internet is no longer a new technology. Things were easier 10 years ago, before social media. Internet = social media for many people. Companies don't rely on website traffic as much as before. Total benefit of running a website is little. Online advertisement is almost dead. Internet got cartelized largely. To advertise a product having a domain + website is no longer enough. You must advertise it. Therefore you don't really need a website to sell a product. Today most websites are functioning mostly as a formality or prestige/reliability factor.

 

[JB Lions]

If an industry is not worth to invest, I call it dead. Take cigarette industry as an example. It's declining, is not actually dead but is destined to dead. Smoking cigarette is getting restricted in more public places, etc. In the past people were smoking anywhere, demand was higher. Would you invest in cigarette industry, would you consider buying shares of a cigarette brand to hold it for long term? If not, it's a dead industry, even if it's still active. Domain industry is declining, is not worth to invest for long term, so is dead. Of course you may pick particular domains and may make profit. You can make profit even in a declining idustry. It's not impossible but would be very difficult. 34 years is too much time in a tech related industry. Internet is no longer a new technology. Things were easier 10 years ago, before social media. Internet = social media for many people. Companies don't rely on website traffic as much as before. Total benefit of running a website is little. Online advertisement is almost dead. Internet got cartelized largely. To advertise a product having a domain + website is no longer enough. You must advertise it. Therefore you don't really need a website to sell a product. Today most websites are functioning mostly as a formality or prestige/reliability factor.

This is basically another nonsense post. Particularly:

"Domain industry is declining, is not worth to invest for long term, so is dead."

No, it's not dead.

This one especially:
"Online advertisement is almost dead."

It's actually growing/soaring

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=internet+advertising+dollars

I have preached and will always preach that while domain investing is a good side thing (and there are people who've had some great successes but they are an exception), you really need to become an entrepreneur with your best domain(s) while domaining.

It's always good to be diversified but if you treat something as a side thing, that's exactly what it will be. Probably won't put in as much work if you look at it that way. Look at it this way. There are plenty of people that do this for a living. Somebody will be starting this month and one day will get there. What is the difference between those that fail and succeed.

 

[Kate]

How will 99% disappear? There is a bunch of Icann rules that pretty much prevents that. Mostly they are getting bought by larger registries.

If a TLD gets in trouble, it will be put on life support for 3 years but not forever. So a TLD can be removed if nobody wants to resuscitate it.

.wed has been in EBERO for some time.

And two dozens private strings have been already been retired: https://www.namepros.com/threads/list-of-retired-new-extensions.991424/
Just the beginning. More TLDs will follow.
This is a segment of the domain industry that is dying slowly: nTLDs.

 

[Tia Wood]

There are plenty of people that do this for a living. Somebody will be starting this month and one day will get there. What is the difference between those that fail and succeed.

I agree with you but that is not the case for most people and in order for the domain industry to survive it needs to be most people.

 

[JB Lions]

I agree with you but that is not the case for most people and in order for the domain industry to survive it needs to be most people.

I agree that it's not the case for most people but most small businesses fail and I think most people here are hobbyists, do this on the side, have a job etc. So most opinions here are going to be thru that experience.

I disagree that this industry is incumbent on most people succeeding, that's never been the case in domaining, never will be, but domaining goes on. It's probably single digit percentage that can make a go of this.

 

[poweredbyme]

This is basically another nonsense post. Particularly:

"Domain industry is declining, is not worth to invest for long term, so is dead."

No, it's not dead.

I call it dead in a more abstract sense. Domaining is a declining industry. For me it's equal to dead as an industry, compared to other industries that are not declining. In other words, domaining is a living dead.

This one especially:
"Online advertisement is almost dead."

It's actually growing/soaring

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=internet+advertising+dollars

Ad blockers is one side, for the people who run websites for ad revenue.
Other side is for the people who want to sell their own products online. Websites as a means of advertising a product are mostly dead compared to the old days. Today people spend their time on social media sites. Companies try to be active in social media sites. In the past, website was a must to sell something online. Today, it does not affect sales as before. Therefore, actual value of websites/domains is much less than before. Of course some business models like ecommerce sites still need a website and domain but mostly to process orders only, receive payment, etc.. But those websites are no longer creating great exposure. When I say online advertisement, I include websites and domains as a type of online advertisement. Advertisement function of websites is weaker. So domain is less important in profitability of a company.

 

[JB Lions]

Well, you're not defining declining industry. Based on what? There is no meat in your post, nothing to chew on. Do you do domaining for a living?

"is not worth to invest for long term"

I think people that are making money, and growing each year would probably disagree with you. You might point to people failing and my reply would be that happens every single year.

The rest of it really doesn't address what I posted. Online ad spending continues to go up, the first 3 quarters of 2018, highest ever. That's even with any problems out there, like ad blockers.

As far as social media, most see that as just another avenue to revenue, not a replacement but an addition. Also, as another source to drive traffic to their sites.

 

[Tia Wood]

It's probably single digit percentage that can make a go of this.

That's my point though: "great successes but they are an exception". In order for an industry to grow it needs actual growth behind it. It needs to foster companies that support it, it needs to grow cheerleaders to rally behind it, etc.

Otherwise, all you really have are a small group of people who "made it".

Again, I will ask: who is looking out for domainers that has some real teeth in politics and commercialism? Domaining has been around for what? 20 or 30 years now? Shouldn't it be more organized by now? Shouldn't we be seeing more blood in the game besides the same old, same old people at conferences by now? Shouldn't there be a leading organization that educates what domainers are and what they do to the mainstream? Why does domaining still have a bad name to the mainstream? Shouldn't we be talking about new successors in the blogs by now?

I could go on and on but you get my point.

We've been recycling the same old crap for years now.

Domains aren't dying. But the domain industry is declining as a whole, the kind of growth needed for long term sustainability.

Do you really think large domain-related companies (like GoDaddy, etc) aren't going to squeeze out the individual domainer?

We've missed the boat to protect ourselves. We failed at properly organizing and educating the public.

 

[JB Lions]

That's my point though: "great successes but they are an exception". In order for an industry to grow it needs actual growth behind it. It needs to foster companies that support it, it needs to grow cheerleaders to rally behind it, etc.

Otherwise, all you really have are a small group of people who "made it".

Again, I will ask: who is looking out for domainers that has some real teeth in politics and commercialism? Domaining has been around for what? 20 or 30 years now? Shouldn't it be more organized by now? Shouldn't we be seeing more blood in the game besides the same old, same old people at conferences by now? Shouldn't there be a leading organization that educates what domainers are and what they do to the mainstream? Why does domaining still have a bad name to the mainstream? Shouldn't we be talking about new successors in the blogs by now?

I could go on and on but you get my point.

We've been recycling the same old crap for years now.

Domains aren't dying. The domain industry is. We failed at properly organizing and educating the public.

I actually don't know why you need a lot of what you posted because here we are, it's been going on for like you said 20/30 years. People understand sites have domain names. The public needs to be educated about what specifically?

And again, in any industry, it's always a small percentage that make it.

As far as organization, do you mean something like - https://thepma.org/ ?

Which was for affiliate marketing. I remember when that first started, a lot of heated debate. Some full timers didn't want some organization speaking for them, some joined to have a voice. A lot of that was built around trying to combat/educate about things like the Amazon/Affiliate Nexus tax situation. Some of us didn't like some people having a seat at the table, were part of the problem. Example, affiliate networks pushing parasites (adware) onto merchants.
*haven't checked in awhile, 11 board positions, only one of them is an actual affiliate. Most are just affiliate networks.

What do you think is missing/needed, specifically.

 

[Kingslayer]

Demand for single word .com domains seem to be higher than ever and they all seem to have a standard set price at 6 figures (possibly 7) nowadays - see chocolate/pain/files/plants/packet just to name a few in the last few months.

Can only see demand for single word domains accelerating even more due to high street closures and new start ups with big budgets wanting a premium online presence.

 

[johnnie018]

If a TLD gets in trouble, it will be put on life support for 3 years but not forever. So a TLD can be removed if nobody wants to resuscitate it.

.wed has been in EBERO for some time.

And two dozens private strings have been already been retired:
Just the beginning. More TLDs will follow.
This is a segment of the domain industry that is dying slowly: nTLDs.

How exactly do we get from that to 99% disappearing? The claim that almost every one will fail by domainnamebrokers is a nonsense.

 

[Tia Wood]

What do you think is missing/needed, specifically.

Leadership and organization. There is still no real leadership or organization in this space driving growth and driving interest specifically for domainers. You could say that there is for domain names themselves. But not specifically for domainers.

I'll leave everyone with this:

"That all said, many of us will be domain investors for our entire lifetime. We have domains of great value that we plan to pass on even after we pass. We have to think like that. We play the long game and we play with blue chip .com names. We don't worry about making sales. We know they will come when they come. Personally, I look to just sell 1, 2 maybe 3 names a year. But for the rest of the group that has to hustle every day to make ends meet, that's a game that will get harder and less profitable as time passes. The steam roller of financial devastation is always close behind for so many. That's the decline I can visibly see.

Rick Schwartz
http://www.ricksblog.com/2018/06/so...-industry-is-in-decline-my-take/#.XI76rqBKg2w​

 

[johnnie018]

I agree with you but that is not the case for most people and in order for the domain industry to survive it needs to be most people.

This isn’t true and never has been true. Most people fail in domains and always have.

 

[johnnie018]

Demand for single word .com domains seem to be higher than ever and they all seem to have a standard set price at 6 figures (possibly 7) nowadays - see chocolate/pain/files/plants/packet just to name a few in the last few months.

Can only see demand for single word domains accelerating even more due to high street closures and new start ups with big budgets wanting a digital presence.

Most of those would have sold for more 10 years ago. Only very brandable non plural one word .com have gone up, not chocolate.com or files.com, they are way down.

 

[JB Lions]

Leadership and organization. There is still no real leadership or organization in this space driving growth and driving interest specifically for domainers. You could say that there is for domain names themselves. But not specifically for domainers.

I'll leave everyone with this:

"That all said, many of us will be domain investors for our entire lifetime. We have domains of great value that we plan to pass on even after we pass. We have to think like that. We play the long game and we play with blue chip .com names. We don't worry about making sales. We know they will come when they come. Personally, I look to just sell 1, 2 maybe 3 names a year. But for the rest of the group that has to hustle every day to make ends meet, that's a game that will get harder and less profitable as time passes. The steam roller of financial devastation is always close behind for so many. That's the decline I can visibly see.

Rick Schwartz
http://www.ricksblog.com/2018/06/so...-industry-is-in-decline-my-take/#.XI76rqBKg2w​

I'm actually fine with that. One of the things I love about affiliate marketing and domaining is anybody can do it. Not much to get started. This isn't some group type of deal. You decide what domains to buy. I'm personally not looking for any leader/organization for domainers. This is my own business.

As far as what Rick said, that bolded quote, how it's harder. It's actually harder if you listen to some of his bad advice. Most of the time I agree with him but I think he said something recently about staying off the Aftermarket, which is just horrible advice. He looks to sell 1, 2, 3 names a year, but other domainers who are actually doing some numbers every month, moving domains, think Frank or Mann, participate in the Aftermarket, it's where you get some of the best deals.

 

[Tia Wood]

P.S. This is coming from someone (me) who has worked specifically with the top domainers for many, many years. I know what is in their portfolios, how they started, where they have ended up for the majority of their careers. And I can tell you most have started real businesses either besides domains (unrelated to domains) or related to domains (marketplaces, brokers, registrars, etc).

And there are a small few who can make a full time living with their very high end domains like Rick Schwartz. He can afford to wait around for a couple of sales per year.

Frank or Mann, participate in the Aftermarket, it's where you get some of the best deals.

Another couple of exceptional people. Very few people have the budgets of Rick, Frank or Mann not to mention their resources and domain portfolio quality.