"Define Legit Traffic"

[Kenny]

This is carried over from another thread...

Have at it boys and girls.

Cy

 

[Varon]

It sounds like no parking company that has spoken up has "sanctioned" X's method of listing his parked domain in directories?

did I read it wrong?

As far as I know, you cannot create backlinks while your domain is sitting parked waiting for the pure type ins to come by. But there is nothing which says you cannot create backlinks on a domain and then park it, with no further link additions.

This is where providers like whypark come in real handy. Register a domain, create as many backlinks as you want, even gain PR, and then either sell, retain or park. You win all the way. When you sell, you are selling a domain with backlinks/PR/type in value et all. WP can especially prove superb for domains with no type-in value. What do domain parking companies think about this strategy? Is this again against the TOS?

Btw, another question I have is, can a domain owner use YPN to get traffic to his google feed parking service? I understand that the google-->google combination is frowned upon and not allowed but what about YPN--->google feeds? Is that a yes?

 

[Donny]

Has anybody contacted Britt from Parking Panel? They have a lot more experience than some of the others on here already.

Donny

 

[Varon]

Has anybody contacted Britt from Parking Panel? They have a lot more experience than some of the others on here already.

Donny

I did contact him Donny. He seems interested and I should hear back from him on Monday. Actually, I have learnt a lot of stuff from him. PP has me experimenting all the time and thankfully I'm able to get some 90 cent adult clicks these days.

 

[.X.]

It sounds like no parking company that has spoken up has "sanctioned" X's method of listing his parked domain in directories?

did I read it wrong?




Business.com just got sold for ~450M for doing exactly that!

I think you are correct, It hasn't definatly been confirmed as of yet, But is somewhat of a tricky question for any of the companies to answer, I would have to speak to them individually, And tell them my resorces, Before they could say a definate yes or no, But i did contact the parking company i currently use, By phone, I was told my resources are good with them, And my manager at the service, even went through my impression, aswell click logs. It is awesome to be able to have that type of comunication. For me to able to accomplish telling each provider mu resources, It would definatly have to stay between the provider and myself, This being because i worked very hard, And spent a lot time rearching, aswell a spending a significant amount of money to confirm and establish my resources as completely "legitimate" resources, I really don't want to share what my research, Time and efforts, Aswell as the money i spent on the project, At this time.

Has anybody contacted Britt from Parking Panel? They have a lot more experience than some of the others on here already.

Donny

Iam not positive on that..Donny...But many have been invited to join us in this discussion, I will see if PP has been contacted, If they haven't, I will contact them as see if they will participate in this discussion.

As far as I know, you cannot create backlinks while your domain is sitting parked waiting for the pure type ins to come by. But there is nothing which says you cannot create backlinks on a domain and then park it, with no further link additions.

This is where providers like whypark come in real handy. Register a domain, create as many backlinks as you want, even gain PR, and then either sell, retain or park. You win all the way. When you sell, you are selling a domain with backlinks/PR/type in value et all. WP can especially prove superb for domains with no type-in value. What do domain parking companies think about this strategy? Is this again against the TOS?

Btw, another question I have is, can a domain owner use YPN to get traffic to his google feed parking service? I understand that the google-->google combination is frowned upon and not allowed but what about YPN--->google feeds? Is that a yes?

I agree ..Varon,,,WhyPark is an excellent place to start, You get search engine indexing, Backlinks and PR, If certain names aren't performimg at an exceptable level, Parking is the next best thing, Parking allows these names to targeted, specific, precise products and services.

 

[Donny]

I guess if we defined what a directory was I'm sure at least I would comment on it.

Donny

 

[.X.]

Has anybody contacted Britt from Parking Panel? They have a lot more experience than some of the others on here already.

Donny

Donny, If possible, I would like to speak to you, Regrading my methods, Tell you my resources, And see where i would stand with ..Parked.com , Like i have said, 38% of all my traffic comes via search engine, Google, Yahoo , ect = Non paid, 14% comes from "Pure" Typin traffic, I use my methods, ONLY to make up for the 48% traffic i am lacking, This being totally confidential, Between You and Myself, If this is a possibility, PM me here at NamePros, The phone number i can contact you at, And i would love to give you a call, It wont take long,

 

[Donny]

Donny, If possible, I would like to speak to you, Regrading my methods, Tell you my resources, And see where i would stand with ..Parked.com , Like i have said, 38% of all my traffic comes via search engine, Google, Yahoo , ect = Non paid, 14% comes from "Pure" Typin traffic, I use my methods, ONLY to make up for the 48% traffic i am lacking, This being totally confidential, Between You and Myself, If this is a possibility, PM me here at NamePros, The phone number i can contact you at, And i would love to give you a call, It wont take long,

Oops. Remember to look before you leap.

Donny

 

[.X.]

Oops. Remember to look before you leap.

Donny

Got it ..Donny, I look forward to talking with you.

 

[Mike Robertson]

Sorry I haven't been back to check in on this thread. I only just got back into Australia after being at the DRT conference in Seattle last week.

I just wanted to make a few quick comments in regards to subsequent posts:

From a parking standpoint, legit traffic:
- Pre-existing link traffic (aka from links made to the existing site prior to purchase/parking - this includes directories and paid links again only if they're pre-existing, but NOT traffic exchanges under any circumstances)

- SE traffic, with paid SERPs allowed only again if it's pre-existing (no paying for SERPs to get traffic into a parked domain)

If we identify any paid for traffic being sent to domains on our parking program, we will ask the owner to either remove the domain or get them to cease the paid advertising. This is regardless of whether the paid for traffic was pre-parking or not.

Case in point, it happens with proxy sites all the time. People make them, build traffic to them, then park them and sell them here or on DNF with the traffic unsteady as hell and dwindling, probably down to nothing in just a few months.

Still, the unfortunate part about it is that while parking companies ideally don't want that traffic, they generally accept that traffic because it's hard to tell it apart from traffic on an expired domain for instance, and could you fault someone for getting an expired name, parking it, and enjoying the benefits of whatever traffic it contains?

The way we see it is that the owner is responsible for the traffic their domains are generating. I've seen it many times before, that someone will buy a domain based on traffic stats, only to find that the traffic is poor quality and generally falls away within a couple of weeks/months.

I would suggest buyers to perform due diligence before purchasing domains and parking them. Probably the best way to confirm traffic stats is to request referrer and host data/logs.

Again, if a domain comes to us and the majority of the traffic is irrelevant back-links, paid traffic, basically has poor quality referrers we will ask the owner to remove the name.

Fabulous has high standards.

Most people will know that we are very particular on the domains we accept onto our parking program, with good reason.

We have a very good relationship with our upstream partner, Google, and we have been told by them that our traffic is of the best quality - so we don't suffer from the "Smart Pricing" in the same way that other companies do.

For those that don't know, "Smart Pricing" is Google's method of determining third party revenue based on conversion tracking data that they offer as a service to their advertisers. The lower the conversions the less revenue paid to the third party.

By restricting the domains allowed to use our parking program, and closely monitoring the quality of traffic (the primary reason why all domains need to be on our nameservers if they want to use our parking program) we have been able to maintain a quality "Smart Pricing" score.

What matters is the bottom line - the revenue generated per unique - and we know that we are probably the highest payers for the right kind of domains, period.

I think we are reaching a meltdown point...lol.. is it possible to have a chat session with the top guns of parking companies on the NP chat on any convenient day and time?

I would be more than happy to participate in this chat session. However, like Ed (NameDrive) suggested, it may be difficult to schedule a time for every one to attend. We are based in Brisbane, Australia (GMT +10:00). But definitely keep me in the loop and I'll see what I can do.

Cheers,

Mike
Fabulous.com

 

[.X.]

Sorry I haven't been back to check in on this thread. I only just got back into Australia after being at the DRT conference in Seattle last week.

I just wanted to make a few quick comments in regards to subsequent posts:



If we identify any paid for traffic being sent to domains on our parking program, we will ask the owner to either remove the domain or get them to cease the paid advertising. This is regardless of whether the paid for traffic was pre-parking or not.




The way we see it is that the owner is responsible for the traffic their domains are generating. I've seen it many times before, that someone will buy a domain based on traffic stats, only to find that the traffic is poor quality and generally falls away within a couple of weeks/months.

I would suggest buyers to perform due diligence before purchasing domains and parking them. Probably the best way to confirm traffic stats is to request referrer and host data/logs.

Again, if a domain comes to us and the majority of the traffic is irrelevant back-links, paid traffic, basically has poor quality referrers we will ask the owner to remove the name.




Most people will know that we are very particular on the domains we accept onto our parking program, with good reason.

We have a very good relationship with our upstream partner, Google, and we have been told by them that our traffic is of the best quality - so we don't suffer from the "Smart Pricing" in the same way that other companies do.

For those that don't know, "Smart Pricing" is Google's method of determining third party revenue based on conversion tracking data that they offer as a service to their advertisers. The lower the conversions the less revenue paid to the third party.

By restricting the domains allowed to use our parking program, and closely monitoring the quality of traffic (the primary reason why all domains need to be on our nameservers if they want to use our parking program) we have been able to maintain a quality "Smart Pricing" score.

What matters is the bottom line - the revenue generated per unique - and we know that we are probably the highest payers for the right kind of domains, period.



I would be more than happy to participate in this chat session. However, like Ed (NameDrive) suggested, it may be difficult to schedule a time for every one to attend. We are based in Brisbane, Australia (GMT +10:00). But definitely keep me in the loop and I'll see what I can do.

Cheers,

Mike
Fabulous.com

Thank you for the excellent insight....Mike ..

I can understand Fabulous.com's position, There is a possiblity you might be impressed with the traffic i receive, Via using my methods of Pay per click, I would sure be willing to share with you, The exact urls, IP addy, Exact geographic locations.This information being between you and i only. That is the reason i had to move my names from Fabulous.com , I certainly did not want to break the Fabulous terms of service agreement, I agree, Fabulous is definatly one of the top, 1st class parking providers, With excellent PPC, If the names are monetized correctly.

We have currently invited some 15 parking companies , To join in on this discussion, We will absolutly make the date and time , To accommodate each and every company that is willing to participate.

 

[Badger]

Has anybody contacted Britt from Parking Panel? They have a lot more experience than some of the others on here already.

Donny

Dont put yourself down Donny... :p

 

[Varon]

Dont put yourself down Donny... :p

Oh no... Donny is a huge information storehouse himself. Parked.com has been in the industry for much much longer than the others and I'm sure he has a wealth of information. Its nice to see his humility.

Badger, your close relationship with google can also shed some important light on many aspects CPC, traffic quality and many other benchmarks. Its nice to see you top guns already helping us out.

I guess if we defined what a directory was I'm sure at least I would comment on it.

Donny

I have my site listed on 200+ directories. These are quality web directories where in fact, you have targeted visitors searching for related products. Most site submissions are grouped as per their PR ranks as well as the right categories. That means if I have a domain parking information site listed, someone interested would actually be first clicking 2-3 category links before viewing my listing. For example his navigation would be Home---Directory--Internet--Domain Names. There again he has more than 10-20 sites to choose from before he finally decides on visiting one.

This is not paid for traffic and in most cases is a free directory listing. In fact many directories have strict rules regarding directory submissions.

My question would be, why is this traffic, which is even more directed, considered not feasible? I feel, this is the best targeted non incentive based traffic source.

What are your opinions on this?

Here is an example of my directory listing

 

[blaknite]

My question would be, why is this traffic, which is even more directed, considered not feasible? I feel, this is the best targeted non incentive based traffic source.

What are your opinions on this?

You could have a box full of gold nuggets and list them on ebay as a box of chocolates. The person who won the auction probably wouldn't complain. You'd still be in violation of ebay's rules.

Advertisers can't make an informed decision as to whether or not to buy your traffic if you are misrepresenting your traffic's source. Even if you aren't abusing it, allowing it opens the door for the whole system to be abused.

 

[Varon]

You could have a box full of gold nuggets and list them on ebay as a box of chocolates. The person who won the auction probably wouldn't complain. You'd still be in violation of ebay's rules.

Advertisers can't make an informed decision as to whether or not to buy your traffic if you are misrepresenting your traffic's source. Even if you aren't abusing it, allowing it opens the door for the whole system to be abused.

I was actually asking the parking companies a direct question. And there is no misrepresentation of traffic. My parking company has approved my domains with backlinks and has no problem whatsoever. Blaknite, I was asking an opinion and there was no mention of misrepresented traffic. Misrepresented traffic is traffic purchased without prior notification/approval from a parking company for an incentive, not traffic voluntarily coming from some valid link on a 3rd party website.

I am intending to understand the parking service providers views on this.

If backlinks are a strict no-no with some parking companies, domains like mortgage.com would actually be a very bad parking proposition considering that most of its traffic comes from backlinks. As I understand, if I were lucky enough or rich enough to buy mortgage.com, I would still not be welcome to park it with some domain parking companies.

My goal here is to try to bring across the plight of thousands of domaineers who are really stuck with these various rules and are almost choking with little or no income from parked domains. If parking companies really were to have an open mind, things could be very different in the near future. It would be a win-win for all.

 

[.X.]

I was actually asking the parking companies a direct question. And there is no misrepresentation of traffic. My parking company has approved my domains with backlinks and has no problem whatsoever. Blaknite, I know you may not be intending to sound harsh, but your comments are more accusing than informative. I was asking an opinion and there was no mention of misrepresented traffic. Misrepresented traffic is traffic purchased without prior notification/approval from a parking company for an incentive, not traffic voluntarily coming from some valid link on a 3rd party website.

I am intending to understand the parking service providers views on this.

I agree ..Varon.... My parking company has approved my methods aswell, Aswell as took the time to go through my impressions and clicks, To be able to completely confirm that my traffic is 100% legitimate. The fact is, No one is buying my traffic, There is no fools gold , with my traffic.

"blaknite" Our ultimate goal is to, Find out what the parking companies positions are on different types of methods to generate traffic, There are some people that will use means to achieve this, That are not acceptable to parking services, Nor ad publishers, Our goal is not to present such means of driving traffic that away, We all know those means are not acceptable, and are click fraud methods. To include, Ponze ad click groups, auto surf, manual surf , and ect methods, we established that at the beginning of this thread.

 

[Varon]

True... I understand that parking companies have to balance the scales and keep both their feed providers and their feed providers advertisers happy. But the point here is, they have for long forgotten the main revenue provider which is the domain owner himself and have been tossing him with no regard. Has anyone ever cared for the domain owner who researches hours/maybe days to buy 1 domain? And then spends many days trying to get a decent keyword that pays some cents? Only to see his CPC decline every week? And he is told, don't do this, don't do that? By whom? By people who provide an ad feed not even their own and leased from someone else? And who are actually middle men profiting from your domain revenues/impressions and untold CPA incentives which we arent even aware of?

Currently the situation is, I want to keep my feed provider happy so that I keep getting higher incentives and I don't care for the domain owner because I get my money from my feed provider. But what if there were no domains on your parking sites? Would you then start bothering about the domain owners who have left you? Because at that stage, you would be telling a feed provider that you are left with a few hundred domains and they would anyway not bother about you anymore, however great you had done in the past.

Sorry to get excited about this, but this had to come out. No hard feelings guys.

Domain owners with sizeable traffic and huge portfolios should take the first step and demand a decent fixed reasonable CPC from their parking companies or simply pull out. You might lose a few days income but you will get them to start repositioning your views for once. And believe me, if hundreds of big domaineers really put this into action, we will all see a marked improvement in our earnings. I hope that day soon arrives.

 

[.X.]

True... I understand that parking companies have to balance the scales and keep both their feed providers and their feed providers advertisers happy. But the point here is, they have for long forgotten the main revenue provider which is the domain owner himself and have been tossing him with no regard. Has anyone ever cared for the domain owner who researches hours/maybe days to buy 1 domain? And then spends many days trying to get a decent keyword that pays some cents? Only to see his CPC decline every week? And he is told, don't do this, don't do that? By whom? By people who provide an ad feed not even their own and leased from someone else? And who are actually middle men profiting from your domain revenues/impressions and untold CPA incentives which we arent even aware of?

Currently the situation is, I want to keep my feed provider happy so that I keep getting higher incentives and I don't care for the domain owner because I get my money from my feed provider. But what if there were no domains on your parking sites? Would you then start bothering about the domain owners who have left you? Because at that stage, you would be telling a feed provider that you are left with a few hundred domains and they would anyway not bother about you anymore, however great you had done in the past.

Sorry to get excited about this, but this had to come out. No hard feelings guys.

Domain owners with sizeable traffic and huge portfolios should take the first step and demand a decent fixed reasonable CPC from their parking companies or simply pull out. You might lose a few days income but you will get them to start repositioning your views for once. And believe me, if hundreds of big domaineers really put this into action, we will all see a marked improvement in our earnings. I hope that day soon arrives.

Excellet point ....Varon

WE THE DOMAINERS, are who keeps the parking companies in business, I stated such a few pages back, WITH OUT US, parking companies would not be here. We also are the people that keep the feed providers in business, If we can not make revenue from our domain names, Then, We do not need the parking services, it's as simple as that. We don't make near as much revenue per click as we should, That being in some cases, with some of the parking companies, from a business perspective, If i can't make revenue from my names via parking or ad publishing, Then i simply have no use for either service, I am not parking my domains, to let them sit there and show feeds and not be visted, that is a waste of my time, Perhaps not a waste of time for parking compay, some parking companies that is, Because thier first stream of revenue comes from the person pointing thier names to the parking company, and when the feeds begin showing, the parking company is making money.. I am not parking my domains so i can make the parking company money, I am parking my domains so I can make myself some money, Sound Harsh? That's business, and it work boths ways, from the parking company to the domainer...Does anyone think they are a GOLD valued customer? Just let your names stop making the parking company revenue, and you will see how valued you really are, My point is, This is business ..period.

 

[Varon]

Excellet point ....Varon

WE THE DOMAINERS, are who keeps the parking companies in business, I stated such a few pages back, WITH OUT US, parking companies would not be here. We also are the people that keep the feed providers in business, If we can not make revenue from our domain names, Then, We do not need the parking services, it's as simple as that. We don't make near as much revenue per click as we should, That being in some cases, with some of the parking companies, from a business perspective, If i can't make revenue from my names via parking or ad publishing, Then i simply have no use for either service, I am not parking my domains, to let them sit there and show feeds and not be visted, that is a waste of my time, Perhaps not a waste of time for parking compay, some parking companies that is, Because thier first stream of revenue comes from the person pointing thier names to the parking company, and when the feeds begin showing, the parking company is making money.. I am not parking my domains so i can make the parking company money, I am parking my domains so I can make myself some money, Sound Harsh? That's business, and it work boths ways, from the parking company to the domainer...Does anyone think they are a GOLD valued customer? Just let your names stop making the parking company revenue, and you will see how valued you really are, My point is, This is business ..period.

WOW!

Looks like just John and me are the sole contenders in this thread with some hard facts and questions. Does anyone else feel the same too? More questions/views from others can really bring out much needed vital information and pave the way for a meaningful Q&A chat with the top guns at a later stage.

And Mike, Ed, Badger, Donny... we appreciate your being here. It is a nice gesture on your part. We have quite a few hard questions to ask and are not looking to demean any parking company. We just need to get a clearer picture and explain our standpoint and our tough pathetic situation which has been for long dismissed. Your answers will help us understand your viewpoint better and vice versa.

 

[Kenny]

You could have a box full of gold nuggets and list them on ebay as a box of chocolates. The person who won the auction probably wouldn't complain. You'd still be in violation of ebay's rules.

Advertisers can't make an informed decision as to whether or not to buy your traffic if you are misrepresenting your traffic's source. Even if you aren't abusing it, allowing it opens the door for the whole system to be abused.

See, this is exactly why we are here.
I don't think blaknites post was directed at anyone in this thread, but his point is absolutely valid. The Parking Services have had to constantly change their policies to keep on top of those that would try to find the loopholes that will drive weak traffic to their sites... thus hurting the entire industry as advertisers consistently lose money, and therefore drop out of the game.

Strict guidelines must be set in place to keep the advertisers ponying up... because yes, without our domains where would the Services be, but without the advertisers who is going to pay us?

Under certain conditions, one domainers legit (but against TOS) traffic source works great for all parties, but then as blaknite alludes to, it opens the door for abuse and the cycle starts again.

The Dark hats are ever present, probing, testing, trying to sidestep the win/win, so the line of defense must be drawn to protect the source... the money. Just like in any business, there is more product than cash. If the product doesn't serve the advertisers... kiss the cash goodbye.

Venting in this thread is not going to inspire the Reps to want to join us and share their views and answer our questions if they feel they are under attack.

The upstream has its parameters that the Services must comply with to keep a higher rev % for all of us.

I believe the Reps that have responded in this thread so far have been completely forthright and more than decent taking their time to help us understand the what AND why of their stance. I once again thank each and every one of them for their candor.

Strong points have been made to support both sides of this issue, but there still is layer of confusion and that is why the idea of a conference has been approved by NamePros Admin.

NamePros has started assembling a team of organizers to put an online conference together.
The working title at this point is:
Parking & Domain Monetization Online Conference.

Peace,
Cyberian

 

[.X.]

See, this is exactly why we are here.
I don't think blaknites post was directed at anyone in this thread, but his point is absolutely valid. The Parking Services have had to constantly change their policies to keep on top of those that would try to find the loopholes that will drive weak traffic to their sites... thus hurting the entire industry as advertisers consistently lose money, and therefore drop out of the game.

Strict guidelines must be set in place to keep the advertisers ponying up... because yes, without our domains where would the Services be, but without the advertisers who is going to pay us?

Under certain conditions, one domainers legit (but against TOS) traffic source works great for all parties, but then as blaknite alludes to, it opens the door for abuse and the cycle starts again.

The Dark hats are ever present, probing, testing, trying to sidestep the win/win, so the line of defense must be drawn to protect the source... the money. Just like in any business, there is more product than cash. If the product doesn't serve the advertisers... kiss the cash goodbye.

Strong points have been made to support both sides of this issue, but there still is layer of confusion and that is why the idea of a conference has been approved by NamePros Admin.

Venting in this thread is not going to inspire the Reps to want to join us and share their views and answer our questions if they feel they are under attack.

The upstream has its parameters that the Services must comply with to keep a higher rev % for all of us.

I believe the Reps that have responded in this thread so far have been completely forthright and more than decent taking their time to help us understand the what AND why of their stance. I once again thank each and every one of them for their candor.

NamePros has started assembling a team of organizers to put an online conference together.
The working title at this point is Parking & Domain Monetization Online Conference.

Peace,
Cyberian

Excellent Points ...Kenny

And a very valid post by " blaknites" aswell.

It brings in all the possible senerios that have the possibilities of obstructing the industry as whole.