Circumventing GoDaddy Expiry Auctions

[411domains]

Has anyone noticed the thousands upon thousands of Godaddy expired auctions ending without bids that never return to the market as a closeout?

Someone has discovered a way to circumvent the regular expired auction process.

They appear to be using an API that places backorders within seconds of auction close. Thus eliminating all competition, auction extensions and closeout conversion times for the cost of a backorder. (In their case, thousands of backorders.)

Although the auctions are already closed, these after the fact backorders are being counted as bids.

In my opinion, any bid that comes in after the auction closes should be automatically canceled and refunded.

What are your thoughts?

BTW, this has been a known issue for awhile.

 

[Arca]

And I'm almost certain that these domains will show up under WHOIS privacy, listed exclusively for sale at Afternic, and at low prices.

The thousands of domains that just disappear post auction at GD each day all seem to follow this same fate.

Maybe there is really something to the "conspiracy theories" posted by @Hater, @RozasMD... Because:

WHOIS privacy: why would you pay $9.99 extra per domain for WHOIS privacy at GoDaddy? Even with a discount, it would incur a huge additional cost if you buy thousands of domains per day. And if they pay full price for WHOIS privacy, it would add nearly a million dollar extra in acquisition cost per month (!) based on the quantities they seem to be buying. This makes no sense to do so unless you're GoDaddy and WHOIS privacy is free to you. Also, by applying WHOIS privacy there is one less way for buyers to find you, so WHOIS in this case seems to be only for the purpose of hiding something.

Listed for sale at Afternic only: The large retail domain sellers/marketplaces all list on both Afternic and Sedo. Yet this large buyer does not list with GoDaddy's competitor, Sedo, even though Sedo has a lower commission fee and reach certain markets that Afternic don't. Doesn't make any sense to do so unless you are GoDaddy and don't want to give business to your main competing market.

Listed for sale at ridiculously low prices: Many of these domains get listed for sale at $XX to low $XXX prices. How can you buy a domain, presumably for $16+ dollars each at least + WHOIS privacy + pay 20% commission on a sale, with a minimum commission of $15?

They are making no more than a $1-9 net profit on many of these domain sales, if you look at each individual sale alone. That doesn't take into account that they buy thousands of domains each day, most of which will not sell at all. So if you take into consideration the cost of buying thousands of domains each day that won't sell, this strategy is 100% unprofitable, as the acquisition costs surely dwarf sales. The portfolio of this buyer on the whole is not profitable at all. Whoever is doing this is is losing a huge amount of money every single day, with no hopes of ever making a profit.

It seems that the only company that could profitably follow this strategy is GoDaddy themselves, as they would not have to pay for the domain, they can grab it pre-closeout at cost, the WHOIS privacy would be free, and they wouldn't have to pay the Afternic commission. I am not saying that it is GoDaddy, I have NO evidence that GoDaddy is doing this. I'm just saying that they seem to be the only party that could do this profitably. And while an increasing number of NP users have beguns suggesting, or outright accusing, GoDaddy of being behind this, nobody has presented any real evidence yet. So that GoDaddy is behind this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory, there are currently no facts supporting it, and GoDaddy themselves have stated that they are not doing this. I sure wish somebody could figure out the identity of this mystery buyer though.

 

[MapleDots]

It seems that the only company that could profitably follow this strategy is GoDaddy themselves, as they would not have to pay for the domain, they can grab it pre-closeout at cost, the WHOIS privacy would be free, and they wouldn't have to pay the Afternic commission.

Hence this topic
https://www.namepros.com/threads/id...ains-take-one-for-free-give-one-away.1076008/

 

[Arca]

Hence this topic
https://www.namepros.com/threads/id...ains-take-one-for-free-give-one-away.1076008/

Virtually all good domains that expire at GD are owned by non-domainers. A domainer knows that domains have resale value and as a result will not let a domain that can be sold to expire.

What you are suggesting is that domainers are letting good domains expire at GoDaddy. But this is the opposite of what domaining is about. It's about owning good domains and not letting them expire.

You're not going to get anything but pigeonshit that even domainers don't want with this "system". Have you seen the quality of the domains being given away for free in the free domains section? Domainers are never going to willingly let good domains expire at GD, nor give them away to others, and this will have no impact on the pool of quality domains that pass through GD auctions.

To make a dent you'd have to get the non-domainers who let their good domains expire on board, which is not going to happen. Domainers are the buyers, not the suppliers, of decent expiring domains at GD auctions.

 

[MapleDots]

Virtually all good domains that expire at GD are owned by non-domainers. A domainer knows that domains have resale value and as a result will not let a domain that can be sold to expire.

What you are suggesting is that domainers are letting good domains expire at GoDaddy. But this is the opposite of what domaining is about. It's about owning good domains and not letting them expire.

You're not going to get anything but pigeonsh*t that even domainers don't want with this "system". Have you seen the quality of the domains being given away for free in the free domains section? Domainers are never going to willingly let good domains expire at GD, nor give them away to others, and this will have no impact on the pool of quality domains that pass through GD auctions.

To make a dent you'd have to get the non-domainers who let their good domains expire on board, which is not going to happen. Domainers are the buyers, not the suppliers, of decent expiring domains at GD auctions.

There are lots of OK domains at godaddy expiring auctions that come from domainers. Especially when people get out of the business and let a portfolio or a portion of a portfolio drop.

Keeping domains out of godaddy expiring auction and back in domainers hands is a good move.the

I dropped a few pretty decent domains in the last year but I made sure there were not going to end up with godaddy. If we all do a little bit of that we can make a dent.

 

[Joe Styler]

Whenever I go to add a domain from closeout to my shopping cart, the thing is snapped up straight away.

As far as I am concerned, that is a piece of private data, and not part of a public auction. It's a data process and Godaddy is the data controller.

I have tested this now numerous times and the result is always the same. I have tried it on appalling domains, the result is the same.

All this stuff about data, all the big fuss about GDPR, protecting the consumers' data - the mind boggles...

This is very likely related to the way you are adding it to the cart. Are you signed into your account with GoDaddy before adding it to the cart and using a browser that allows cookies not some cookie blocker or incognito window?
The way the closeouts work is that if you add it to the cart it allows you time to complete the purchase which makes it disappear from everyone but you so no one else can buy it while you are trying to do so. So typically when something like this happens it is due to the fact that the website doesn't know you added it to the cart and not someone else, which a cookie blocker or other add on etc can impact.
So you go to the auction add a domain to the cart it asks you to login and when you login it thinks you are someone else and the cart is empty because its being held for the "other" customer to pay for. You can test this again being logged in so we know it is you and also not using a blocker and you should be fine and see the names move to your cart.

 

[domainer111]

This is very likely related to the way you are adding it to the cart. Are you signed into your account with GoDaddy before adding it to the cart and using a browser that allows cookies not some cookie blocker or incognito window?
The way the closeouts work is that if you add it to the cart it allows you time to complete the purchase which makes it disappear from everyone but you so no one else can buy it while you are trying to do so. So typically when something like this happens it is due to the fact that the website doesn't know you added it to the cart and not someone else, which a cookie blocker or other add on etc can impact.
So you go to the auction add a domain to the cart it asks you to login and when you login it thinks you are someone else and the cart is empty because its being held for the "other" customer to pay for. You can test this again being logged in so we know it is you and also not using a blocker and you should be fine and see the names move to your cart.

Thanks Joe, I'll try that. Not sure what happened. Thought I was logged in, but perhaps not. I had been using a backorder bid to win the closeout, but my understanding is that option is not available now.

I'm beginning to think I was logged into auctions.godaddy.com, but not actually godaddy.com itself.

 

[Arca]

The backorder loophole is still working.

 

[Joe Styler]

The backorder loophole is still working.

Yes for now. But that will change any day now.

 

[Joe Styler]

Thanks Joe, I'll try that. Not sure what happened. Thought I was logged in, but perhaps not. I had been using a backorder bid to win the closeout, but my understanding is that option is not available now.

I'm beginning to think I was logged into auctions.godaddy.com, but not actually godaddy.com itself.

Logging into auctions.godaddy.com will also work, unless you are being timed out during the searching for domains and the browser is set up to not remember it is you by clearing cookies or not allowing them etc or incognito windows etc. As long as you are logged in and active we should be able to tell it is you and add the domain to the cart seamlessly.

 

[Ategy]

If ever any of you (@domainer111) have a closeout domain seemingly disappear from your cart after re-logging-in .. apparently GD auctions can grab the domain for you as long as you call them ASAP. I reported it as an issue in the past by email and they couldn't save the domain for me because it was too late. Depending on where it is in the closeout cycle it will likely come back .. but if it's near the end of it's time at $5, then the domain will be gone forever .. for some reason GD can't save it beyond that point even if it's still in their system for another day or two.

WARNING ... This is a HUGE issue if you have multiple GD tabs/windows open because if any of them time out then you are effectively logged out of their system. Some things will work and some things won't .. it depends on what you're trying to do/buy. It's always best to re-login before any buying session just in case.

 

[Arca]

Post-auction backorders are still working.

 

[Arca]

Loophole still working. One party is still successfully buying nearly every domain with a $1300+ valuation seconds after auction end (thousands of domains daily).

 

[wwwweb]

Loophole still working. One party is still successfully buying nearly every domain with a $1300+ valuation seconds after auction end (thousands of domains daily).

They are probably letting them use up all those thousands of backorders they have bought. It’s really not hard to flip the switch.

 

[Arca]

They are probably letting them use up all those thousands of backorders they have bought. It’s really not hard to flip the switch.

That might be it. Doesn't look like they're in a hurry to get it done. It's already been 10 days since Joe said they would close the loophole, but a bot is still allowed to pick up thousands of domains a day, uncontested, by exploiting the backorder loophole.

 

[Arca]

So we decided to make a change. The system will no longer check for BO on step 3 above. This change is happening soon, within the next week.

@Joe Styler - Has there been any changes to GoDaddy's decision to close this loophole by the end of last week? We're past "within the next week" (last week), but the loophole remains open.

 

[Joe Styler]

No changes in our stance. The developers are actively working on and testing a change. It is taking a bit longer than expected but it is coming shortly.

 

[Arca]

No changes in our stance. The developers are actively working on and testing a change. It is taking a bit longer than expected but it is coming shortly.

Approximately when do you expect to have it closed?

 

[Joe Styler]

Approximately when do you expect to have it closed?

Soon is the best I can say. Once it is released I will let everyone know.

 

[wwwweb]

Should the update have a human element to it, so bots don't totally have an advantage?

 

[tonyk2000]

@Joe Styler : it have been previously mentioned that some trick allows to view a number of watchers. Will GD close this bug as well?

 

[Arca]

@Joe Styler : it have been previously mentioned that some trick allows to view a number of watchers. Will GD close this bug as well?

I would also like to see this bug fixed.

 

[Joe Styler]

There is no longer any watcher bug that I am aware of. There was a fix rolled out recently and one a while back. I do not know of any way to see watchers currently at our auction.

 

[tonyk2000]

I do not know of any way to see watchers currently at our auction.

I technically meant _number_ of watchers. It may well be that the system actually allowed to see a list of watching parties. @Joe Styler can you please clarify the response in aspects of "see watchers" or "see total number of watchers". Thank you.

 

[momentum]

Removing the backorder technique for Godaddy closeouts is a major, major downgrade and huge inconvenience for users of Godaddy auctions.

Instead of taking 15 seconds to place a backorder to possibly win a closeout domain, you are saying that we will have keep refreshing the domain listing over and over again for hours until it randomly hits the closeout hours after the end of the $12 auction. I guess we are all going to have really strong index fingers from all the refreshing.

I fail to see how this improves my user experience. If anything this change will be a huge time waster with no added benefit.

 

[momentum]

And I'm almost certain that these domains will show up under WHOIS privacy, listed exclusively for sale at Afternic, and at low prices.

The thousands of domains that just disappear post auction at GD each day all seem to follow this same fate.

Maybe there is really something to the "conspiracy theories" posted by @Hater, @RozasMD... Because:

WHOIS privacy: why would you pay $9.99 extra per domain for WHOIS privacy at GoDaddy? Even with a discount, it would incur a huge additional cost if you buy thousands of domains per day. And if they pay full price for WHOIS privacy, it would add nearly a million dollar extra in acquisition cost per month (!) based on the quantities they seem to be buying. This makes no sense to do so unless you're GoDaddy and WHOIS privacy is free to you. Also, by applying WHOIS privacy there is one less way for buyers to find you, so WHOIS in this case seems to be only for the purpose of hiding something.

Listed for sale at Afternic only: The large retail domain sellers/marketplaces all list on both Afternic and Sedo. Yet this large buyer does not list with GoDaddy's competitor, Sedo, even though Sedo has a lower commission fee and reach certain markets that Afternic don't. Doesn't make any sense to do so unless you are GoDaddy and don't want to give business to your main competing market.

Listed for sale at ridiculously low prices: Many of these domains get listed for sale at $XX to low $XXX prices. How can you buy a domain, presumably for $16+ dollars each at least + WHOIS privacy + pay 20% commission on a sale, with a minimum commission of $15?

They are making no more than a $1-9 net profit on many of these domain sales, if you look at each individual sale alone. That doesn't take into account that they buy thousands of domains each day, most of which will not sell at all. So if you take into consideration the cost of buying thousands of domains each day that won't sell, this strategy is 100% unprofitable, as the acquisition costs surely dwarf sales. The portfolio of this buyer on the whole is not profitable at all. Whoever is doing this is is losing a huge amount of money every single day, with no hopes of ever making a profit.

It seems that the only company that could profitably follow this strategy is GoDaddy themselves, as they would not have to pay for the domain, they can grab it pre-closeout at cost, the WHOIS privacy would be free, and they wouldn't have to pay the Afternic commission. I am not saying that it is GoDaddy, I have NO evidence that GoDaddy is doing this. I'm just saying that they seem to be the only party that could do this profitably. And while an increasing number of NP users have beguns suggesting, or outright accusing, GoDaddy of being behind this, nobody has presented any real evidence yet. So that GoDaddy is behind this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory, there are currently no facts supporting it, and GoDaddy themselves have stated that they are not doing this. I sure wish somebody could figure out the identity of this mystery buyer though.

You are right. It is a Godaddy-associated shell corporation that is actively warehousing these domains. This is pure speculation but the reason I think it is a shell corporation is due to the fact that Godaddy says they don't bid on their own auctions and this is the shady way around it. Domain warehousing is probably the reason the Godaddy appraisal tool was developed, so their "partner" would have one easy criteria for determining which domains to register en masse. Registrars need to go back to serving their customers instead of competing with them. The conflict of interest is just sickening and is running rampant in the industry.