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Circumventing Godaddy Expiry Auctions

Located in Domain Marketplace Reviews started by 411domains, Apr 14, 2018.

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  1. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Has anyone noticed the thousands upon thousands of Godaddy expired auctions ending without bids that never return to the market as a closeout?

    Someone has discovered a way to circumvent the regular expired auction process.

    They appear to be using an API that places backorders within seconds of auction close. Thus eliminating all competition, auction extensions and closeout conversion times for the cost of a backorder. (In their case, thousands of backorders.)

    Although the auctions are already closed, these after the fact backorders are being counted as bids.

    In my opinion, any bid that comes in after the auction closes should be automatically canceled and refunded.

    What are your thoughts?

    BTW, this has been a known issue for awhile.
     
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  2. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    I know I've snagged some $11 closeouts within a couple of seconds of going to closeout .. bots can do it even faster! If a bot really wants a domain it can check it multiple times per second and pretty much beat any human.

    ADDED: I'm also curious if what registrar it comes from makes a difference? Not all domains on the GD auction platform actually were registered at GoDaddy. Maybe some of the domains from some other registrars don't go to closeout depending on the agreements between them and GoDaddy Aftermarket?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  3. CrocodileDundee

    CrocodileDundee Top Member VIP

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    I think it can now take hours for them to arrive in the closeouts, the added inventory has slowed down the process alot I feel. I also think @Ategy.com is correct in that some registrars do not send domains into the closeouts.

    It has definitely gotten ALOT harder to grab anything after it has expired, closeouts are real hit and miss and I would think that someone or some group has bots grabbing alot of them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  4. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    If this is being done. I'd put my money on DropCatch/HugeDomains is doing this. I only have my intuition to go by. Plus as @Ategy said, some of the non-GoDaddy registrars may not be allowing their domains to go to closeouts. Which would look like somebody is gobbling them up. The same as
    @CrocodileDundee hypothesis that some domains might take longer to arrive in closeouts, would have the same effect. And a very few might be gobbled up in the few seconds before you check the closeout manually.

    I think that whoever is doing this is placing their backorder requests before they go into closeout, to strictly comply with GoDaddy's Auction Rules. It doesn't really matter if the domain get's snaffled up in regular auction. The backorder is not lost. You can put it on a another auction tomorrow or later.

    I think if this exercise is happening, it needs a lot of API power, and servers, which only the big guys with the money can afford to play. There's no bigger player than DropCatch/HugeDomains playing in these GoDaddy Auctions. They also have a lot of servers lying around looking for something to do for most of the day.

    It also fits DropCatch/HugeDomains mode of operation. Using bots. And also fits there strategy. To gobble up every half-baked domain on the planet. Restricting supply to HugeDomains.

    In fact. DropCatch/HugeDomains might not need any backorders at all (except they have first priority). They could possibly use their API power to do all this in the closeouts themselves. Except GoDaddy might not have enough servers to cope with the demand ;) What is it? DropCatch 1500 servers, GoDaddy 10 servers. <- This was a joke ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  5. DrJacoby

    DrJacoby Established Member

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    Why wait for the chance to buy at closeout for $11 (and risk losing it) when you can buy it in the GoDaddy auction for $12?
     
  6. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Since the bots are receiving realtime updates on new bids placed (including if it is the first and only $12 bid), in most cases they will join the auction as the result of somebody placing the 1st bid anytime, including last 5-6 min
     
  7. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Because by placing a $12 you draw attention to the domain and it could climb significantly higher.

    I think the common thinking is that you will draw particular attention by automated bots who can check multiple listings and actions all at the same time.

    I do grab some at $12 if I definitely want a specific domain and don't mind paying more .. but most of my domain strategy is to get domains even below what I consider wholesale .. so for me it's a numbers game .. I have X number of domains I really want per day ... but 90% of them go well out of my "super value" range .. often going significantly higher. The remaining 10% names I risk getting at closeout .. I definitely don't get them all .. but from time to time I get some at $11 .. or even down at $5!

    It's often dumb luck .. I get names with just as much quality or better at $11 than some that go into 3 figures .. but that's only because I go very deep into the expiration lists to find potential gems ..
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/at...closeout-domains.1006428/page-12#post-6665183

    It's important to note that while the domain market is liquid-ish .. there are still ways to find good names for cheap. A large amounts of the names I've shared in the "Domains You've Won at Auction or Closeout" thread were indeed closeouts at $11 down to even $5.
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/domains-you-won-at-auction-or-closeout-in-your-account.1050374/

    So yeah .. definitely bid $12 if it's a MUST HAVE domain and you're ok risking that it goes higher .. but if you're ok playing the numbers game and accepting only having an about 25% chance of getting the domain .. then let it go to closeout. After you've been doing it for a while you'll get an idea of which are riskier than others.
     
  8. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Placing a bid shows anyone who may be watching that there is additional interest and could potentially drive up the price.
    As you may already know, if a bid is placed in the final seconds, it extends the auction for an additional 5 minutes.
    Therefore, we wait to get it at closeout.
     
  9. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The backorders are being placed while they are in the process of converting to closeout. (After auction close and before they reach closeout.)

    They're spending thousands on backorders and thousands more on domain privacy only to list them through Afternic for $XX- low $XXX.

    I could be wrong, but unless they're testing a new model, it's highly unlikely to be any of the usual suspects.
     
  10. creataweb

    creataweb Some Guy with Awesome Senior High School Photo VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I don't understand how anyone is making money selling a domain on Afternic for $xx when you consider the costs and fees.
     
  11. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2002 - 2019 VIP

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    Yup.... the godaddy machine and it's only going to get worse.

    We need to do more business outside of their services.

    When you're considering bidding on a domain you really want remember that godaddy takes about 20%.

    Contact the domain owner directly and you immediately have a 20% advantage over doing business through godaddy. I picked up few like this in the last little while.

    I saw a domain for 5k on godaddy and felt I did not want to spend more than 4k. I made a bid for 4k directly to the owner and he rejected the offer saying he wanted 5k. At that point I reminded him he only gets 4k from auction and I would not be offering there. He saw the logic and took my 4k, the deal was done and we kept the money out of the godaddy machine.

    afternic/godaddy will eventually buy huge domains, I predict this will happen

    Our options will become less and less unless we are careful. Remember to not let your godaddy domains expire either, give them away on namepros if you don't want them. Don't let them become part of the godaddy machine. Don't let them profit on your expiries! Support your fellow domainers and give them away here instead of letting godaddy have them.

    Unfortunately with expiries we have no choice but to bid on them at godaddy but as you can see the system is not stacked in our favor.
     
  12. DBurn

    DBurn Account Auto-Closed

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    I just sold a domain on Afternic for $99 - and so I cleared $79 - that was a $69 profit over the $10 registration cost. You do this a thousand times you can make decent money. Of course, not all domains sell - but for that ratio, 1 selling for every 7 listed is break-even. Whoever is putting the domains won on backorder onto Afternic are playing such a numbers game.
     
  13. creataweb

    creataweb Some Guy with Awesome Senior High School Photo VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yeah but if you're backordering or paying over $10 you're not making a hell of a lot! Especially if you're selling for $35-75 moreso.

    I've had lowball offers as low as $15 to $20 from GD / AN :xf.laugh:
     
  14. urlurl

    urlurl Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    the bot machines seem to buying up mostly names valued over $1300. based of a sample of 2400 names in closeouts - only 13 names were valued over $1300 (or about 0.5%) I don't think the valuations are accurate in 99% of the time - so they are just blowing good money on names that may never sell. the big guys cant hand pick names so they need to rely on numbers associated with the names.

    the advantage we have is being able to pick, judge and cherry pick the quality names.

    I've seen so many sub par names getting crazy bids its like watching lemmings jumping off a cliff.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  15. urlurl

    urlurl Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  16. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    How do you know the backorders are placed after the regular auction has closed? But I wouldn't consider it an actual closed auction because it continues into a closeout auction (name change only). Unless it has a backorder. I'm sure if you read their ToS, it's very clear how backorders are handled in the auctions. Backorders whilst the auction is in progress are only actioned between regular and closeout auctions. Backorders before the auction begins are put as the first bid on the domain. Unless things have changed recently. If there are multiple backorders whilst in auction, then the earliest dated backorder wins.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  17. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's not that easy anymore. I've manually snagged countless closeouts on the conversion, but since they began making changes, incorporating more registrars, etc. it takes hours upon hours for closeouts to convert.

    It's not about a bot snagging domains on the closeout, but rather the window of opportunity that one has, in the moments after an expired auction ends and the conversion to closeout begins, to immediately stake claim to the domain by slapping a backorder on it. No live bids...no purchase via closeout...no competition...no questions asked.
    It doesn't matter which registrar it's coming from either, because they're still counting the backorder as a regular auction bid.
     
  18. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I know because I'm very familiar with the platform.
    Not to mention, the team has confirmed this is an issue.
     
  19. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    By "the team", I assume you mean the "GoDaddy Auctions Support Team"? Has there been any public discussion anywhere about this? Have they give any indication about fixing it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  20. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, they plan on fixing it. However, since it's not technically against auction terms/policy, the priority isn't as high. Therefore, no actual timeframe has been given.

    In the meantime...expired auctions continue to get scooped up within the previously mentioned window of opportunity without any competition at all.
     
  21. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    If you think pennies, you get pennies.
     
  22. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I read GoDaddy's ToS yesterday. The regular auction does close at $12. So the backorder is essentially a backorder for the ensuing closeout auction. Which would not make it a backorder for a closed auction. Another way of looking at this is the backorder is completely independant of any auction, and could be considered an open backorder. So I don't see what there is to fix exactly?

    @Joe Styler
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  23. 411domains

    411domains Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, highest commissions in the industry, but that's off topic and already been discussed numerous times.

    We're talking about the thousands of backorders being placed on expiry auctions AFTER they've ended their regular auction cycle without bids/backorders and started their conversion to closeouts.
     
  24. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I guess GD allows this on purpose, as they do not want human domainers to purchase closeouts, bidding is what they want. Which is why the bots are allowed, supported, and likely receive premium attention... a perfect way to tell human customers that they must bid. Actually, whether the bots are hunting to grab the closeout domain for $11 OR they are competing (with each other) to place a backorder on it after the regular auction was closed with no bids - it makes no difference from human point of view, as the bot will grab it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  25. garptrader

    garptrader Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Huge Domains and other large players are experts at acquiring expired domains. I do not believe they are acquiring aftermarket domains at least yet. I will admit that even for domains I do not renew there is a tendency to lower the price to maybe $299 but no further. Perhaps if domain investors dropped Godaddy Auction listed domains which they were not going to renew to say $49 or $35 or $25 etc other investors might pick them up - to bypass the auction process.

    There is too much focus on acquiring expired domains (even though 99.9% are junk) rather than value-priced aftermarket domains. Yet the same investors who won't even look at low $XXX-priced aftermarket domains will turn around and price their newly-acquired backorders for five figures.
     

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