discuss Call out to all Registry and Registrar Representatives...Where are you on this forum???

[brindle123]

This is a call out to all Registry representatives to show yourselves on this forum and help us domainers with the problems and issues we have with the registries.

If there are any reps from the registries that are regulars on this forum or pop in from time to time, we need your help to clear up some pricing problems that we see as a hindrance to the industry.

It seems like there is disconnect between the registry, registrar, and the registrant.

If there is a price change, is that being relayed from the registry all the way down to the registrant?

Can or will registries change domain pricing from non-premium to premium pricing?

Can registrants renew at the current renewal rates if given notice? Is at least a 30 day notice being given to domain registrants prior to any pricing changes?

I welcome all Registry and Registrar reps to participate in this thread and discussion. Please help us. This will only help your business too! All domainers are also encouraged to discuss these questions that I posed to the registries and registrars. Let's clear up the grey areas.

 

[Rightside]

We’re posting to this thread in order to provide information about Rightside’s domain pricing.

We have never moved a registered standard domain to a premium price tier or raised the price of a registered premium domain. This type of activity is not part of our business model and therefore we have no plans to do so now or in the future.

Rightside also maintains a set of high-value premium domains that we call Platinums. These domains are available for negotiated prices. Our Registrar partners handle these domains in different ways. Some of them provide a ‘Make an offer’ option, others show a high retail price (greater than $55,000/yr) and some show them as unavailable. The WHOIS information for these domains will include the following info: “This premium domain is available for purchase. If you would like to make an offer, please contact platinums @rightside.co.”

 

[Eric Lyon]

Call out to all Registry and Registrar Representatives...Where are you on this forum???

For reference and convenience: https://www.namepros.com/members/?type=reps

 

[namesilo]

I just wanted to weigh in and give the registrar's perspective of this topic. I was actually personally tasked with writing a support article for our web site explaining premium nTLD renewal pricing and ended up on this thread during my research. I can probably speak for other registrars in that the current policies are extremely frustrating as it is typically the registrar that needs to explain to customers what the policies are. Unfortunately, as has been covered at length in this thread, there appear to be no policies that registries provide which can tell Registrants the cost of premium domain renewals in the future in most cases. We probably get 20-30 inquiries a week from people all asking this same question which we only wish we had a better answer for. I'd say that 90% (conservatively) of those people reject buying a premium nTLD once we tell them we cannot give them an answer regarding how much next year's renewal will be. We don't blame anybody for this decision. Buying a domain without knowing the cost of future renewals is a risky proposition that, from our experience, very few people are willing to entertain.

I can also possibly shed some light on how the process works technically between registries and registrars which may help answer some other questions raised within this thread. Registrars have the ability to query registries to get pricing information for domains. When these queries are made from the registrar, the registry responds with the registration, renewal and transfer price (along with other information) for that domain at that moment in time as well as signifying if the domain is a premium, and, if so, what level premium it is. It is then up to each individual registrar to decide how that information is used. I assume most do as we do which is to adjust the price of the domain as well as notify the end user that they are pursuing a premium domain which may be handled differently than a non-premium. Registrars can of course charge anything they like, and I would not be terribly surprised if some kept track of previous searches and adjusted their pricing accordingly if searched for again (we do not do this).

Finally, and for whatever it's worth, our opinion is that the current system is deeply flawed. We believe that Registrants should be entitled to understand the full scope of everything having to do with their domains, including the knowledge of what future renewals will be if the price will be beyond a typical wholesale price increase of a dollar or so. The fact that this information is not available results in a lot of unhappy customer interactions for us as registrars and I'm sure other registrars would report the same.

 

[Hypersot]

http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/

You didn't have to provide the link brindle. What you say makes sense with or without proof

 

[brindle123]

makes me want to know what happened afterwards on these domains.

I would like to know more about this issue that Michael had. I read all the other comments and nothing more was really said about the outcome. It started out with 20 domains for him then he found 5 more that were premium. I would like Mind&Machines to come on here and give their side of the story. I know Michael covered most of it in the blog though.

I would also like to know if there is anything in the contract with the registries and ICANN that covers non-premium to premium changes, if there is anything in the contract at all that covers that issue.

The point about Michael just sitting on the domains doesn't fly, because there are 1000's of gtld domains held back by the registries that are not developed. Keeping them priced at $55,000 per year will keep them sitting on the shelf too! I would be very worried about buying a domain for $55,000 per year if the renewal could go up to $75,000 without any notice. Even with notice, if you own a domain with $55,000 renewal fees, and you want to beat a price hike and register it for 10yrs, you would have to come up with $550,000 before the price hike.

These are some major worries that people have about the new gtlds and the registries pricing on them. If I buy a gtld for $20 and the renewal goes up to $30, where could a $55,000 domain renewal go to? I think that could be scaring off investors and developers from the new gtld market.

Plus as a seller and buyer within the aftermarket, I need to know the renewal price on every single domain that has variable pricing within each gtld. Not having a standard renewal fee for a gtld is a huge problem for the aftermarket! All these problems need to be worked out by the registry, registrar, and registrants or the new gtlds will fail or take forever to come into favor with the general public.

I wanted to buy a domain in the aftermarket last month, but didn't know if it had a "premium" renewal pricing attached to it. That got me thinking about what a huge issue this is for the aftermarket. Gtlds with regular renewal pricing across the board don't have this problem. I couldn't contact the buyer due to the private whois. Plus that would go against my strategy of showing interest in the domain. There was nothing in the description about the renewal costs either. I couldn't ask the seller a question on the aftermarket site without first putting in an offer. The domain had a minimum offer amount of only $100, but could have had a $500 a year renewal fee. I got frustrated and decided not to pursue the domain.
Moral of that story is I lost a domain, the seller lost a sale, the aftermarket site, lost a sale, and the registry looks bad for having crazy pricing structures for different domains within a gtld.

I'm used to weird things in the market, but if the general public gets surprised by irregular pricing within a gltd, then they will lose faith in the gtld market, domainers, and registries/registrars.

I'm just trying to point out problems that I've already seen with the roll-out of the new gtlds. There are some really good gtlds and there are some horrible ones. The pricing structures, policies, and renewal pricing really needs to be looked at and discussed between all of us or we will all be having some serious problems soon.

So let's work out the kinks without getting personal. Let's point out the problems and concerns we have so that the registries and registrars can fix things so we all can make some money and keep this industry moving forward.

 

[robaireg]

There are 4 different prices for .horse listed on his blog. When he goes to sell those, he has to list the different pricing for each one.

dang. dot-horse seemed to have such functionality.
and then .... dot-car came along !!! ruined everything.

 

[DomainStation]

I think it's not a good idea if new gTLD registry set the renewal fee for premium domains higher than standard renewal fee, especially for those tlds which want to compete or even intended to replace the dominance of .com.

It's okay if you set whatever price do you want for a new registration but no for renewal, if you are still use that business model .COM will remains and always the KING, at least for me.

EDIT: and the .NET will be still the queen

 

[SiteMachine]

Waiting on @brindle123 to admit he's a fearmonger spouting nonsense....

Bueller
Bueller
Bueller

 

[brindle123]

Waiting on @brindle123 to admit he's a fearmonger spouting nonsense....

Bueller
Bueller
Bueller

Sorry I have a life and couldn't reply until now.

We have never moved a registered standard domain to a premium price tier or raised the price of a registered premium domain. This type of activity is not part of our business model and therefore we have no plans to do so now or in the future.

That's a great thing to say on a forum, but where is it in the TOS or user agreement when a domain is purchased?

Just because you say it now doesn't mean that you can't do it. You say you "won't" but not saying you "can't".

I've read the post by Michael Berkens where his domains changed from a standard renewal to a premium renewal. If it is not in the TOS, then it can be done.

People get elected president saying "No new taxes", then they raise the taxes.

This is a legitimate fear among others domainers and investors, not just me.
Renewal prices go up, without notice and putting that back onto just the registrars and not the registry or ICANN is bull. If ICANN won't let the registry give notice all the way down to the registrant, then the registry needs to fight that fight for the registrant. We are the customers and when we get burnt, you get burnt.

Stick up for us. Help us. We don't have lobbyists fighting for our rights at ICANN like the registry/registrars do, or at least on the same level.

If there is a price change, is that being relayed from the registry all the way down to the registrant?

NO!

Can or will registries change domain pricing from non-premium to premium pricing?

Saying you won't or that it is not part of your business model is great, but CAN you make that change is the question being asked here!

So...can you change a domain from non-premium to premium if you wanted to?
If you say no to that question, I would like to see where in your policy that it say's you can't!

 

[brindle123]

Still waiting on the registries to come on and say they "CAN'T" change domains to premium status!

I'm pretty sure they won't say that they can't.
Just because a registry says they have no plans to do it, doesn't mean that they can't do it.
This is something that needs to be in the contracts between everyone involved.

Does ICANN have a representative on this forum? I don't think I've ever seen a post from an ICANN rep.

Does anyone have a link to the contract agreement between ICANN and the registries. It would be interesting to read thru to try to find whether or not the registries can change a domains status from non-premium to premium since no on will come out and say if it can be done.

The registries not saying that it can't be done makes me think that it can be changed. If it can be changed, then that is one hell of a bombshell that will be the nail in the coffin of new gtlds.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of things.

 

[Kate]

G Kirikos has raised the issue with icann several times in the past, but that just fell on deaf ears. I think Icann are uninterested in regulating the market, just like they are uninterested in policing rogue registrars like those that spam.
Actually, I am even thinking the organized chaos is set up to justify their existence.

 

[davidthornton]

Of course registries can revise how they catagorise an unregistered domain name if they wish. They can also privately sell off unregistered names they've reserved and make names available for registration that they had previously marked as reserved.

If registries ever selectively tried to increase the price of already registered domain names, rather than uniformly increase the price of the entire gTLD, they would likely have big problems. I don't believe this would ever be permissible. On what basis could it be justified by any registry?

Obviously if a hypothetical uniform increase were very significant, such as 500%, it might kill interest in the respective gTLD to almost all registrants, both existing and prospective. I do not believe a registry would get away with doing that either because such an increase would probably be considered excessive and unfair.

 

[robaireg]

Still waiting on the registries to come on and say they "CAN'T" change domains to premium status!

appears as though they cannot change pricing legally ... so -- they have taken the route of doing ''creative'' TOS (term of service agreement with checkbox) saying that they are allowed to ... (make arbitrary changes to the sales agreement) ..

... which gives them an alibi for the attempt. and if the customer capitulates then they won.

the TOS looks like a binding agreement but probably is not according to the actual law in place in the given country. the problem is where you have to sign the wrong TOS to buy their product. . but maybe that purchase is not something you really want to make anyway- that is the silver lining in all of it. I've got research going in a different direction on this.

 

[brindle123]

appears as though they cannot change pricing legally

I haven't seen anything that says they can't change pricing. Everything that I read says that pricing can change as long as notice is given.

As we are all likely aware registrars can charge customers what they like and registrants are free to transfer domain names away or register them elsewhere.

That won't do you any good if the price structure coming from the registry has changed your domain to premium. The registrar will have to charge you a higher amount. I'm still looking for something that says that this cannot happen.

Further on the following is then stated:

Correct, but if you read your TOS, you agreed that prices can change without notice. That is in the TOS, so you are bound to that agreement.

No one agrees to raising their renewal willingly. Otherwise renewal fees would never increase! No one really reads the TOS and when you click that little box, you just agreed to higher renewal prices!
mwg3kpc and I fought this out in another thread about renewal price increases. I went back and re-read the TOS and it stated the prices can change at anytime. I can't remember if it said anything about having to be given notice of the increase.

The price increase notice is in the "GTLD Agreement" between ICANN/Registry and Registrar. I don't think notice has to be given to the registrant.

You can not buy a domain name without agreeing to the TOS, thus you agree to any price changes. The "Clear and conspicuous disclosure" pretty much means if you read the TOS you will see it there in black and white, which it is.

It seems like most domainers on this forum don't care about the legal aspect of their domain purchases and would rather show off their new purchases in the "Reg of the day" threads. This doesn't help that there are only a couple people on the forum that get into these discussions where we actually try to get to the bottom of things. It's not easy to find the answers and read all the stuff needed to find it.

There has to be someone from ICANN that is on the forum that could clear things up very easily, but it seems like they don't want to step forward and spill the beans.

If I'm wrong about any of this, then a registry/registrar rep should just say that I'm wrong.

Still waiting.

 

[brindle123]

It's surprising that the only one to respond to this thread was Rightside. Then when I got specific on their policy, they shut up.

I would think that the registries/registrars would be on the forum a little more to help their main customers. There are alot of them that have very few messages. I realize that you can contact them all through their support contacts on their websites, but they don't seem to make many posts on the forum other than to promote a sale that they are having.

I just wish they would step up to the plate and help domainers when there is a problem or issue with a specific registry/registrar.

 

[brindle123]

Bueller
Bueller
Bueller

 

[alcy]

I think it's not a good idea if new gTLD registry set the renewal fee for premium domains higher than standard renewal fee, especially for those tlds which want to compete or even intended to replace the dominance of .com.

It's okay if you set whatever price do you want for a new registration but no for renewal, if you are still use that business model .COM will remains and always the KING, at least for me.

EDIT: and the .NET will be still the queen

I think op just stated that the renewal price will always be same as registration price.

 

[SiteMachine]

I've read the post by Michael Berkens where his domains changed from a standard renewal to a premium renewal. If it is not in the TOS, then it can be done.

pics or it didn't happen

Anecdotal like every other piece of evidence you've presented.

Case dismissed, next....

 

[brindle123]

pics or it didn't happen

Anecdotal like every other piece of evidence you've presented.

Case dismissed, next....

http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/

 

[SiteMachine]

http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/

Hexonet is a reseller and registrar not a registry. Just like the guy in the other thread that you are popping off on the beef is with the registrar. If you read the most recent reply of the OP in the other thread that prompted you to start this you will see that after he kicked and screamed godaddy said "oh wait now we can renew it at the same rate"

You didn't have to provide the link brindle. What you say makes sense with or without proof

LOL, or it makes no sense bc the proof he gave negated his point.

 

[Hypersot]

Hexonet is a reseller and registrar not a registry. Just like the guy in the other thread that you are popping off on the beef is with the registrar. If you read the most recent reply of the OP in the other thread that prompted you to start this you will see that after he kicked and screamed godaddy said "oh wait now we can renew it at the same rate"


LOL, or it makes no sense bc the proof he gave negated his point.

I didn't follow the link. All I'm saying is that I agree with what he says, that's all.. free country and all

 

[brindle123]

Show me where it says that a registry can't change a domain from non-premium to premium.

No one knows for sure. That's the problem.

If they can't change a domains status from non-premium to premium then the registry should just come out and say they can't, not that they don't have plans to do that!

I don't plan on going to the store today, but I might and can if I want to.

I doubt that any registry will come on here and put in writing that they can't change a domain's status.

Hexonet is a reseller and registrar not a registry.

It was Minds + Machines.
Unless we have a list of what was listed as premium from them, then we don't really know if they changed the domains from non-premium to premium.

 

[SiteMachine]

Ok, I guess we will have to see if Minds + Machines says something, I did reread the article and you're right Hexonet actually did the right thing and paid the difference which kind of makes me want to know what happened afterwards on these domains.

Also, I know this will get me bashed on here but if he was sitting on those domains and not developing them at all after an entire year and they really were premium names (please really think about this for a second) wouldn't it be unsustainable for new gtlds which as we all have admitted have generally smaller pools of attractive SLD strings that work with them to allow us (or domainers in general) to sit on them completely undeveloped? I know I'm biased but if he had sites up on those then I would be considerably more outraged, but I also think he might have had more leverage.

I'm just saying everyone hates on the new gtlds for being undeveloped, maybe some registries are considering that part of their business model...

 

[eenmakkie]

Hexonet is a reseller and registrar not a registry. Just like the guy in the other thread that you are popping off on the beef is with the registrar. If you read the most recent reply of the OP in the other thread that prompted you to start this you will see that after he kicked and screamed godaddy said "oh wait now we can renew it at the same rate"


LOL, or it makes no sense bc the proof he gave negated his point.

companies will always put the fault by the other. I do not know who did do the increase in price, other that it was real and no error, as the support guy told me that. I asked him many time to check it as it could not be possible and needed to be an error.
Also for sure there are laws protecting my purchase.
But it seems I did not bought anything, I am just renting a domain name. As you rent a flat or house.
After the contract, the owner can increase the rates as he wishes. Some laws do protect you for certain times. But once finished those times, it is out the house or pay what I tell you to pay.

At times of registering the many new TLD's, I have seen big price differences between registrars. What only tells that some registrars are slower as others by adapting the rates.

The most important of all this for all is: can it happen again? Not will they do it, NO, can they do it?

If they can by law and they are short of cash in the future when the next .newTLD crash comes, then they will use all tricks to find money if it is legal. I don't want to wait for that if it is legally possible.