Domain reclassified as premium at Name.com & priced at 10x original renewal!

[bismisoft]

Normally i set every domain to auto renewal and forget it. Randomly and once in a while will audit the account to see if there is any anomalies in renewal prices.

During this process in @name.com Name.com account found one of the domain marked as premium and renewal price has been set to more 10x the original renewal price. Original transfer/renewal prices is $69.99 and new renewal price is insane $736.25, no communication or anything, nada.

This domain is a .bond TLD and there is a similar discussion about another TLD here where is registrant just filed a ICANN complaint against the registrar/registry.

Filed a ticket and getting the same usual registry changed and we can't do anything about it.

I've asked to escalate and i'll update the thread.

Meanwhile If you're on auto renew, advise everyone to thoroughly go through your account.

This is getting ridiculous that registrars / registries can change status as premium and charge whatever they want without your consent while continuously OWNing and RENEWing the domain.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Normally i set every domain to auto renewal and forget it. Randomly and once in a while will audit the account to see if there is any anomalies in renewal prices.

During this process in @name.com Name.com account found one of the domain marked as premium and renewal price has been set to more 10x the original renewal price. Original transfer/renewal prices is $69.99 and new renewal price is insane $736.25, no communication or anything, nada.

This domain is a .bond TLD and there is a similar discussion about another TLD here where is registrant just filed a ICANN complaint against the registrar/registry.

So you confirmed that this is a price increase done by the registry and not the registrar?

 

[ryan87]

This domain is a .bond TLD and there is a similar discussion about another TLD here where is registrant just filed a ICANN complaint against the registrar/registry.

That's me

To clarify, I did NOT file a complaint against any registrars. In fact, both Namecheap and Porkbun made a lot of effort to help me. Both provided me with information and statements that significantly improved the quality of my complaint against the registry.

Filed a ticket and getting the same usual registry changed and we can't do anything about it.

If the domain was reclassified by the registry, that's true. The registrars can't do anything without the registry agreeing.

This is getting ridiculous that registrars / registries can change status as premium and charge whatever they want without your consent while continuously OWNing and RENEWing the domain.

The registrars can't change the classification. Only the registries can. I'm 99% sure the registries hate it as much as us registrants because they operate on thin margins and a support incident to deal with pricing reclassification is going to dwarf any profit they're making on a non-premium domain.

I suspect, without any proof, a lot of the pricing shenanigans are at the behest of the registries even though they cause a lot of consumer confusion, but the support costs resulting from that confusion are externalized onto the registrars, so the registries don't care. I've been paying attention to pricing issues for almost 5 years and almost every time someone complains it's because they misunderstood what they originally bought or they were a victim of foreign currency (exchange rate) fluctuations.

Of note, I've noticed some registrars started adding warnings about billing currencies and foreign exchange rates since the registrant of forum.dev posted about a huge pricing change on Hacker News in 2022. I know both Namecheap and Porkbun show warnings when I checkout.

In terms of support costs for a pricing reclassification like mine, I went back and forth with Namecheap about a half a dozen times and some of the things I asked them to investigate were things like the historical classification of my domain. Those aren't 5 minute support incidents and probably required internal escalation. With Porkbun it was fewer interactions, but one of them also required internal escalation.

If the registrars end up interacting with ICANN as a result of my complaint, that's even more support costs. All in all, I wouldn't be surprised if the total support costs, to the registrars, end up being hundreds of dollars. And that's for a domain where they might be making $2 or $3 per year in markup (maybe less).

In my case, the registrars didn't do anything wrong and are eating a ton of support costs. In my opinion, most of the registrars are acting in good faith and I think their actions, like showing those foreign currency warnings, show that.

Meanwhile If you're on auto renew, advise everyone to thoroughly go through your account.

The problem I've run into with that is that pricing classifications are too opaque. Most registrants don't have access to anything that clearly shows the classification of a domain. I found the info needed to get API access at Namecheap, put $50 in my Namecheap account to meet the requirements, spent an entire afternoon to set up my logs, spent time checking the logs regularly, and spent 4-8 hours to interact with registrar support, read ICANN agreements, and prepare + file my complaint.

I know how everything works. I knew what to look for and how to keep a "paper trail" for everything relevant. I've probably spent 10-15 hours, including logging and monitoring, to get to the point of having a decent complaint filed. Almost no one is going to put in that kind of effort because it doesn't (or didn't) make sense to make the kind of effort I did to mitigate a risk that isn't (or wasn't) supposed to exist.

I don't even think the registrars have good historical logs of the pricing classifications. Both Namecheap and Porkbun were able to definitively tell me the classification of my domain when I registered / renewed, but Namecheap wasn't super solid on exactly when my domain was reclassified. The timeframe they gave me was a range and didn't match what my logs from their API said. They probably don't see the need to log that info and I didn't expect them to have it. I suspect they estimated, but I don't know for sure and didn't want to burden support with investigating something that doesn't make a difference; it doesn't matter exactly when my domain was reclassified, only that is was reclassified while registered.

I've asked to escalate and i'll update the thread.

Make sure you have a solid understanding of the role played by the registrars vs the registries. The best you can expect from the registrar is to have them confirm the pricing classification changed during the registration period and, even though they're not obligated to as far as I know, to reach out to the registry on your behalf to ask for the pricing classification to be reverted.

If you have, or get, any documentation or info that definitively proves your domain was reclassified during the registration period, please post about it here. I think it's useful for everyone to understand how to get that info and what it should look like.

 

[bismisoft]

So you confirmed that this is a price increase done by the registry and not the registrar?

that what name.com support says in the ticket responses

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

The registrars can't change the classification. Only the registries can. I'm 99% sure the registries hate it as much as us registrants because they operate on thin margins and a support incident to deal with pricing reclassification is going to dwarf any profit they're making on a non-premium domain.

Well, the registrar that I moved virtually all of my domains from seemed to classify all their domains as "premium." And, instead of being registrants, those purchasing domains were only deemed "subscribers."

Over a year ago, I researched this, and one domain tutorial suggested avoiding registrars that only provide "subscriptions" to domain names. Allegedly the rights of the "domain subscribers" are more limited with those registrars.

So does your registrar also label you only as a "subscriber?" It still may be a registry issue, but that angle might be worth considering---even if for considering any options of changing to a different registrar.

 

[bismisoft]

That's me

To clarify, I did NOT file a complaint against any registrars. In fact, both Namecheap and Porkbun made a lot of effort to help me. Both provided me with information and statements that significantly improved the quality of my complaint against the registry.



If the domain was reclassified by the registry, that's true. The registrars can't do anything without the registry agreeing.



The registrars can't change the classification. Only the registries can. I'm 99% sure the registries hate it as much as us registrants because they operate on thin margins and a support incident to deal with pricing reclassification is going to dwarf any profit they're making on a non-premium domain.

I suspect, without any proof, a lot of the pricing shenanigans are at the behest of the registries even though they cause a lot of consumer confusion, but the support costs resulting from that confusion are externalized onto the registrars, so the registries don't care. I've been paying attention to pricing issues for almost 5 years and almost every time someone complains it's because they misunderstood what they originally bought or they were a victim of foreign currency (exchange rate) fluctuations.

Of note, I've noticed some registrars started adding warnings about billing currencies and foreign exchange rates since the registrant of forum.dev posted about a huge pricing change on Hacker News in 2022. I know both Namecheap and Porkbun show warnings when I checkout.

In terms of support costs for a pricing reclassification like mine, I went back and forth with Namecheap about a half a dozen times and some of the things I asked them to investigate were things like the historical classification of my domain. Those aren't 5 minute support incidents and probably required internal escalation. With Porkbun it was fewer interactions, but one of them also required internal escalation.

If the registrars end up interacting with ICANN as a result of my complaint, that's even more support costs. All in all, I wouldn't be surprised if the total support costs, to the registrars, end up being hundreds of dollars. And that's for a domain where they might be making $2 or $3 per year in markup (maybe less).

In my case, the registrars didn't do anything wrong and are eating a ton of support costs. In my opinion, most of the registrars are acting in good faith and I think their actions, like showing those foreign currency warnings, show that.



The problem I've run into with that is that pricing classifications are too opaque. Most registrants don't have access to anything that clearly shows the classification of a domain. I found the info needed to get API access at Namecheap, put $50 in my Namecheap account to meet the requirements, spent an entire afternoon to set up my logs, spent time checking the logs regularly, and spent 4-8 hours to interact with registrar support, read ICANN agreements, and prepare + file my complaint.

I know how everything works. I knew what to look for and how to keep a "paper trail" for everything relevant. I've probably spent 10-15 hours, including logging and monitoring, to get to the point of having a decent complaint filed. Almost no one is going to put in that kind of effort because it doesn't (or didn't) make sense to make the kind of effort I did to mitigate a risk that isn't (or wasn't) supposed to exist.

I don't even think the registrars have good historical logs of the pricing classifications. Both Namecheap and Porkbun were able to definitively tell me the classification of my domain when I registered / renewed, but Namecheap wasn't super solid on exactly when my domain was reclassified. The timeframe they gave me was a range and didn't match what my logs from their API said. They probably don't see the need to log that info and I didn't expect them to have it. I suspect they estimated, but I don't know for sure and didn't want to burden support with investigating something that doesn't make a difference; it doesn't matter exactly when my domain was reclassified, only that is was reclassified while registered.



Make sure you have a solid understanding of the role played by the registrars vs the registries. The best you can expect from the registrar is to have them confirm the pricing classification changed during the registration period and, even though they're not obligated to as far as I know, to reach out to the registry on your behalf to ask for the pricing classification to be reverted.

If you have, or get, any documentation or info that definitively proves your domain was reclassified during the registration period, please post about it here. I think it's useful for everyone to understand how to get that info and what it should look like.

Thanks @ryan87 for the details

1. in my case i don't see much help or interest from name.com, they're more interested in closing the ticket. that's why asked them to escalate to see if anybody higher understands the situation.

2. understood it's the registries made the change however we don't buy from registries and don't have any interaction with them. leaving margin aside, it's the responsibility of the registrars to act in the best interest of their customers when it is rightfully so, in this case they should work with registry to make them understand and resolve this.

3. in my case it is not via api, straight billing and the payment history has everything. i even shared them the receipt from previous registry (Epik) before it was transferred a while ago.

 

[bismisoft]

Leaving everything aside, the bigger issue here is classifying a domain as PREMIUM and charging 10x or whatever every registry chooses while the domain is continuously renewed and owned by the same registrant.

If this becomes a reality, it is dangerous and the end of domain investment and the industry in general. Any domain or TLD in your account could become a target since new trends emerge everyday and any domain in your account could become hot keyword or term and will be marked as premium IMHO.

 

[dirk]

If it was reclassified as a premium while being registered, escalate to ICANN.

keep in mind though, there are premiums being discounted for the first year, with higher renewal fees when renewal is due. totally legit as per ICANN.

Way back it was the wild west when it comes to domains, regarding ngtlds, that's still the case.

ICANN leaves them a lot of wiggle room. Which is a disgrace if you'd ask me.

 

[ryan87]

Well, the registrar that I moved virtually all of my domains from seemed to classify all their domains as "premium." And, instead of being registrants, those purchasing domains were only deemed "subscribers."

What!? I've never heard of that. Would you be willing to share registrar names or links to tutorials that reference it? That's a nasty trap for regular users that don't understand the subtle difference.

understood it's the registries made the change however we don't buy from registries and don't have any interaction with them. leaving margin aside, it's the responsibility of the registrars to act in the best interest of their customers when it is rightfully so, in this case they should work with registry to make them understand and resolve this.

I agree. The registrars are the only one in decent a position to advocate for registrants. I just wanted to point out that registrars are getting a raw deal too.

in my case it is not via api, straight billing and the payment history has everything. i even shared them the receipt from previous registry (Epik) before it was transferred a while ago.

It may be worth reaching out to Epik support to see if they'll confirm the pricing classification for you. That's what I did with Namecheap and Porkbun. It helps because having two registrars confirm the non-premium pricing classification demonstrates that it wasn't a mistake by a registrar. If both of them say it was non-premium, that's a really good indicator the registry had it listed as non-premium since the registry is the common denominator that everyone is using to get their pricing classification info.

 

[bismisoft]

If it was reclassified as a premium while being registered, escalate to ICANN.

keep in mind though, there are premiums being discounted for the first year, with higher renewal fees when renewal is due. totally legit as per ICANN.

Way back it was the wild west when it comes to domains, regarding ngtlds, that's still the case.

ICANN leaves them a lot of wiggle room. Which is a disgrace if you'd ask me.

In this case it was not a hand reg, it was aftermarket purchase + immediate transfer fee/renewal paid for a year which was regular fee not a premium, so 100% sure doesn't fall into that category.

 

[bismisoft]

What!? I've never heard of that. Would you be willing to share registrar names or links to tutorials that reference it? That's a nasty trap for regular users that don't understand the subtle difference.



I agree. The registrars are the only one in decent a position to advocate for registrants. I just wanted to point out that registrars are getting a raw deal too.



It may be worth reaching out to Epik support to see if they'll confirm the pricing classification for you. That's what I did with Namecheap and Porkbun. It helps because having two registrars confirm the non-premium pricing classification demonstrates that it wasn't a mistake by a registrar. If both of them say it was non-premium, that's a really good indicator the registry had it listed as non-premium since the registry is the common denominator that everyone is using to get their pricing classification info.

Epik receipt already confirms in separate lines aftermarket purchase + transfer/renewal fee and year later transferred to @name.com with the same transfer/renewal fee (again non-premium)

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Over a year ago, I researched this, and one domain tutorial suggested avoiding registrars that only provide "subscriptions" to domain names. Allegedly the rights of the "domain subscribers" are more limited with those registrars.

So does your registrar also label you only as a "subscriber?" It still may be a registry issue, but that angle might be worth considering---even if for considering any options of changing to a different registra

What!? I've never heard of that. Would you be willing to share registrar names or links to tutorials that reference it? That's a nasty trap for regular users that don't understand the subtle difference.

I'll see whether I can locate that website tutorial citing concerns about registrars that use "subscriptions" to domains rather than the usual "registrations" It almost seems like one is a "tenant" or "renter"of the domain, but it could in some case simply be semantics.

Like definitions for "premium," "subcriptions" for domains may need to be codified by ICANN to assist in protecting registrants. The one registrar that started using the "subscriptions" termnology was "GoDaddy." I believe Namecheap, Dynadot, and Hover do not use that term. However, I'm sure other NP members can chime in on this.

Perhaps others can chime in on this. @bismisoft, does Name.com declare registrants as "subscribers?"

 

[DNSSEC]

I hear ICANN can't do anything about it.

 

[Altetra]

I think it's illegal what Registry/ICANN and Registrars are doing, the domain first should drop to end it's registration contract cycle with the registrant, only then after it was dropped it can be reclassified as premium and to rise the registration/renewal price by Registry and therefore at Registrar side, not sure maybe I m wrong but they could be sued for this no matter what policy they have in place, those policies are only in place to scare everybody to do nothing, but we have rights on what we buy and own until we renew it.
So If I register a domain or buy an already registered domain which had one price at registration time, I enter into an established contract, which should end only after the domain is dropped out of contract cycle.

What you think @jberryhill I m right or wrong?

P.s. I understand that .COM, NET, ORG and others has an early % increase in price, but even with this no one will ever buy again 1000 of domains in the hope to win some lottery tickets and sustain further this gambling.

 

[biggie]

Hi

not many keywords fit with .bond anyway, so what is the actual domain name?

unless it's james.bond or savings.bond, what else can they label as premium.

imo...

 

[forge]

If it was reclassified as a premium while being registered, escalate to ICANN.

I know for certain that a few of my .biz names were reclassified "premium" a few years after acquiring them (bought from other domainers) though, thankfully, as yet the renewal fees have not increased (other than minimally). However (as I mentioned in another thread) once dropped, the registration fee blows up significantly (in some cases high $xxx level at least).

What has happened in OP's case though is outrageous to say the least.

@DomainNature per your latest post

 

[jberryhill]

What you think @jberryhill I m right or wrong?

No idea. I had not heard of this "reclassification during registration" tactic before. I'd have to spend time digging into it, and my time happens to be the only thing I sell for a living.

Just off the top of my head, it sounds like a sneaky end-run that someone dreamed up. It's been a while since I had a reason to curl up for an afternoon with the registry agreements, but as I recall, the standard registry agreement wasn't really written with the sorts of pricing models that registries use. For a general price increase across the board, there is a six month notice period, or something to that effect. But, sure, if a registry reclassifies all of its registered names into a new "premium" tier, that sounds like the kind of thing where someone has already spent more time reading the RA than I'm going to do this weekend, that's for sure.

I haven't checked whether .bond changed hands, but as I recall, the folks running it were pretty slimy to begin with. They ran premium promotions on both 007.bond and James.bond when one of the movies was released and acted like "7 and 'james' are just a number and a name" as if anyone couldn't see through their stupid excuse. Like most new TLD registries, revenues fell way short of expectations and so they are just trying to squeeze all the juice out of it they can.

Most of the money to be had in new TLDs has been in (a) losing the private contention auctions and getting paid not to run a registry or (b) getting into various domain name registration "blocking" programs and getting paid not to register names. I have nothing against someone with a business idea trying to make a go of it, but the various shenanigans involved in new TLDs are shameful. That said, I'm happy to see the royal court of "tld consultants" get their fingers into the pockets of dumb brand owners in the next round.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

I'll see whether I can locate that website tutorial citing concerns about registrars that use "subscriptions" to domains rather than the usual "registrations" It almost seems like one is a "tenant" or "renter"of the domain, but it could in some case simply be semantics.

As a preliminary update to researching domain "subscribers" vs. registrants:

1) If you purchase your name through a bundled service, the service, such as a webhosting company, may be the actual registrant. This may be dependent on which company you use and what service. You might instead only be leasing the domain from that company.
2) In the above case, it's unclear what appeal rights are available through ICANN and other regulatory authorities.
3) Keep in mind that noboday actually "owns" a domain. It seems that even an actual registrant "leases" a domain from the registry. ICANN does clearly spell out what the rights are in that scenario.

Note though that I''ll keep researching the issue of whether some registrars actually register specifically in their own name when someone buys on on their platform---even if not using a bundled plan. Is it possible that some folks are unwittingly only "renters," and unaware of this peculiar twist. After all, if privacy is on, how would you know the difference?

 

[Altetra]

I m worried because of such tactic, cause I m going to release soon a secret knowledge, and I m sure the registry will see the opportunity to make my domains and of others cost more to renew, but they are already premium but affordable to renew, If they make them super premium I will have to drop them and take care of the COM's or I will sue them and say, 'hey you repriced my domains after my secret knowledge I will use this in the court, until now they were simple premiums with low renewal fee' have at you my chaos.

I have around 90 nGTL's, even as premiums some cost above 50 and 100 to renew per year, imagine them making to cost 10K or above for most important words in the world in such nGTLD's, you can go bankrupt in a year expecting when someone will come buy them from you. Even this can be used in a court I will say "they rysed the prices for my premiums in such a way so I go bankrupt and they take the domains from me" yes believe me I m prepared already.

 

[Altetra]

Additionally I will say "I even was not buying new clothes and shoes just to make sure I have enough money to renew my domains so one day I could sell them to recuperate the investments, but they took everything from me even the opportunity to eat well and sleep well" I m not joking I will take pics of my clothes with holes in them.
edit: forgot to add another truth "I did not even do repairs in my apartment for 30 years and when I had the chance I didn't do the needed renovations but invested all the money into domains to feed their registry and all the involved organs" I have allot of evidence.
Because of fear of not enough money I even did not go out to get into relationships to have a wife like other people and maybe make kids, they have everything but I have to be in solitude until today, grabbers.