Buying/Selling - Is it Time to Quit Domaining?

[ZOX]

Hi guys,

Anyone notice a significant DECREASE in offers being made for domains now??

Thanks!
SDX

 

[deleted984054565403]

What's insulting is calling domainers "followers" and telling them that they are wasting their time.

You want a bright outlook? Start investing instead of trying to short sale and you'll see a bright outlook.

Just because it isn't working for you gives you no reason to bash the whole industry. Look at the automotive industry, sales are the lowest ever, the largest corporations were at the brink of going bankrupt. Does that mean that the auto industry is dead? Same with every other industry going through this economic recession.

Like Buffet says, "Be fearful when everyone is greedy. Be Greedy when everyone is fearful."

Hopefully that will motivate others to get out of that negativity that people are trying to spread.

Thanks for your opinions and the discussion.

I actually reached five figures last year in domaining -- I was more successful than I would have imagined. I'm bashing the industry because it needs to be bashed to mold itself for the future. It's naive to think future and current technology, the economy, ICANN, and so many other factors won't change domaining significantly in a short period of time.

The domaining industry is dying simply because it's becoming obsolete. :imho:

 

[Mike]

Let's keep one thing in mind here folks - We're ALL on the same side.
Some may have different ideas, concepts, plans and levels of success than others, at the end of the day, we're all still domainers in one fashion or another.
Keep that in mind when you sharpen your proverbial pencil and start to loose your cool when responding here.
****************

Now, onwards with my PERSONAL opinion:
I'm contemplating to drop out myself. Since Yahoo/Google have practically destroyed what's legitimate in any other trade - arbitrage, the game has become increasingly flat.
NO! I don't want to hear any arbitrage bashing or defenses - i'm just saying that the landscape has changed, for many, including me, not to the positive.

Direct navigation will naturally gravitate towards extensions that are well branded and publicized in their respective countries. .de, .co.uk, etc. are no brainers for direct navigation. .com rules anyways, and .us is being kept in the closet - only god knows why. If you have a generic or descriptive ccTLD, you should be in the clear. If not - sorry. unload the sucker and get something better on board.

Development: Whoever still thinks that development is the key to success should reevaluate. UNLESS you have a novel concept, a great idea and either the skills or pocket book to come up with some rendition of a concept that hasn't been seen or has not hit mainstreet just yet, you're SOL for the big leagues. Bottom line: Ride the bus after everyone else has already jumped on it and be happy with the few cents you make along the way, or get innovative, creative and try something outside the norm - provided you can afford to get the programming done.

Sales/Flipping: Consumers are getting educated faster than we can come up with sales arguments. Granted, there's still money to be made in direct sales to end users. However, as end users start to understand how to utilize GoDaddy's "available domain" function, this will dwindle as well. Unless you have a domain that is dead on for a company, the big $$$ are going to dry up before your very registration invoice eyes.

The Holy Grail? COLLABORATION! One owns the domain&marketing skills, the other has the programming skills, the next has the server admin skills and hardware to support any concoction and last but not least, there's the GUI guru. Maximum of 4 people that pull on the same side of the rope and have a better chance to come up with something revolutionary than any one of them by themselves.
However, since it's all a game of numbers at the end - We're beating ourselves by showing a gold rush type greed.

As always, there are exceptions. A few lucky ones that made it by other means. Looking into the present, near and far future - the lucky ones are going to be a dying breed.

On a side note - I haven't attacked anyone, I spoke in general terms. If anyone should agree/disagree with my post, please do so in non personal manner.

Again, this is my personal opinion only and as such disassociated from my staff duties here at NP.

M.

 

[DomainTalker]

Interesting discussion...


I made the point (in another context) when I first joined NP, that:


If you extrapolate the future in a straight line from the past, you'll miss every turning point in history...


I think this is just as true of the internet, and domains, as of anything else. Today's global economic disruption may possibly stimulate such a turning point. The smart move is to accurately assess how things will change (not IF) - and, how quickly - and, how it may impact our prospects.


Steve's point earlier in the thread about changes in the way the internet will be used is a good one....Nothing stands still....Everything changes, over time....And, the way things have been done, will change, too.


One mistake, I believe, would be to extrapolate the experience of the 2000 'Tech Bust' (for domains), and apply it to today's global economic 'bust' - and, conclude that the way back to domain prosperity will follow along similar lines (ie domains will regain value, for the same reasons as they had value before the bust, its only a matter of time, and economic recovery)...

One reason I think this is possible, is that 2000 was a bubble bursting within a larger fish tank (bad, but not fatal to the fish tank), whereas today the whole fish tank has blown up.

This kind of 'bust' changes a lot of things.


Could even what a domain is, or does - its purpose - change? Perhaps.

Could the notion of an 'extension' be somehow bypassed? Not impossible.

Could how domains have been used in the past to generate revenue & capital gain be affected? Very possible.

Why? Because change disrupts. A small change in technology capability can render a business model obsolete, fairly quickly.


Today's economic meltdown is the ultimate disruption. Change always follows such major disruptions. One consequence is that people re-evaluate assumptions about many things. Another is that novel solutions are found for problems that economic downturns bring. Including technology solutions.

And, the magnitude of today's economic disruption is a major change agent.


(For example - Its possible that the current sharp decline in parking revenue is not a cyclical downturn, nor a sick economy casualty. It may well be a disruptive change to a business model that's in process, and a long term trend.....partly because the 'middle men' are taking ever larger slices - and partly because more and more of the natural traffic already simply bypasses the domain type-in (xxxx.com) mechanism in Search Engines (unless they are going to an already known specific site), thus increasingly bypassing PPC pages altogether. Small - further - technology adjustments may even take parked PPC out of the game altogether).


My point is, never cease questioning the fundamental assumptions of your business. Never assume that, because, today, a domain is the gateway (real estate) on the internet, that it will always be so.

...And, especially, be alert to game-changing concepts that may arise from serious economic turbulence.....Someone we've never heard of today, for example, may be about to launch a new web-access paradigm (that may, or may not, utilize domains at all), just like Google took out its competitors with its Search algorithms, not that long ago. Or, Google might do it. Who knows?


There hasn't been a new fundamental idea on the internet since the 'domain' was invented (tho there have been many, many brilliant derivative applications for the internet, of course). By 'fundamental', I mean a change to the way the internet, itself, is perceived, and used.


'Necessity is the mother of invention'....Don't be surprised if some new 'domain-impacting' concept emerges from the rubble of this economic catastrophe over the next few years.


Maybe even someone here at NP will be the one to do it...?...:D

.

 

[Seabass]

Okay.....granted it is hard to see the future.

--But Google did not just open up their platform to anyone with one domain for no reason.

--Yahoo did not just expand PPC to 12 more countries three months ago for no reason.

--Parked.com is investing in more employees. Now you get a SEO specialist, a designer, and an account rep.

--MSN, has stated that if they don't make a special "strategic purchase" soon (Yahoo), then they will enter parking in the next 12 months.

Is everyone forgetting that this is a 2.8 Billion USD market?

This negative sentiment is simply arising from a one-two whammy of a recession and an overdue correction of the PPC market, meaning G and Y are to begin phasing out trash traffic. They have already stated so in private discussions. G and Y are already paying less through SmartPricing and TQ Score, now they just want to get rid of it. Much of it is a liability anyhow....and court cases against them keep getting filed. I expect that much expired traffic domains, brand domains, TM typo domains will all be washed out within two years.....if not sooner. Then the rest of us with good generic intent domains will see some kind of rise in income.

PPC will never go away completely. There may be other preferred advertising vehicles in the future....but PPC will still have its place.....just like the pop-up ads still do.

.

 

[labrocca]

This thread makes a few things very obvious to me. We have passed some point of no return. For the past month or so I have stayed away from NP discussions. I am focusing only on the Marketplace area here. However this thread caught my attention.

It's depressing around here. I don't see sales happening. I don't see glory over new registrations or awesome Sedo offers. I see scared, broke, and uncertain domainers. You can include me in that too. I am dropping like crazy. It's probably a very good thing though. I can easily prune 30-50% of my portfolio of 500 names. I am renewing many of my strong dot coms and I have a lot of developed sites. A few weeks ago I sold off about 15+ mini sites. Mini sites are now dead to me. I am staying clear of them. Reality is they aren't converting well enough and PPC is down drastically imho.

I have always been a preacher of development as it's my background long before domaining (first site 1996). Right now I have a few sites earning me money and revenue is increasing month over month. But I admit the last few years I have flipped dozens if not hundreds of domains for great profit. 2008 was the worst earning year I have had for domain sales and the best year for site income. I have sold off many good names in the past and right now my portfolio isn't nearly as attractive as it once was. I am finding it harder and harder to grab great domains at bargain prices.

Sure sellers here are selling but they still want top dollar. That's just what I see. I am looking to buy but I am pickier than ever. I have enough fluff in my portfolio now. I do think that over time domains will regain value but things may never be the same. Lots of names won't recover and unless domains are proven earners they may just end up sitting parked forever without interest from end-users or resellers.

So what does the future of domaining look like? To me it's bleak for a lot of people here. Reg fees are increasing and sales are decreasing for most. Competition to get good names is increasing. This is not the lucrative market it once was where $100 names would flip for $1000 within weeks or months. Deep pocket domainers appear to be closing their wallets.

Where is the good news? For pure domainers that spend their days optimizing parking pages and looking for end-user sales I thnk it's abysmal imho. Top tier domainers (Rick Latona's of the world) will fair just fine. They are entrenpenuers and would probably be successful no matter what they do in life. But a lot of people here are part-timers or people that are jumping on a bandwagon of sorts.

I personally am focused on making money no matter where it is or how I make it. I been a self-employed person for about 14 years now. I don't need the internet or domains to continue that. So overall...I know I can fare well. I am looking for the "next big thing" and I guarantee you that it exists. Money is something that can always be made. Even in the worst disastrous economic times there are those that profit. I plan to be one of those people.

Domaining will for me ...never be the same. I been a member here for over 4 years. It's been fun but now it's not. It's just sad. I hold no single person or event accountable but admit that a mass-hysteria of sorts did exists where the money flowed. Hype was built up and a marketplace was formed for a product that doesn't even really exist. Domains aren't even owned...they are a leased contract. Does anyone here realize how fragile that is? How with one stroke of a pen and a new law that domainers could be placed into the cold.

Goodbye domaining...2001-2008 RIP.

 

[snoop]

Imagine any of those with 1999 reg dates..it would immediately make them worth $100+ easily.

Even if true the reg fees paid would be over $100.

Part of the problem with dictionary terms is that companies can't use them to brand and it's becoming less popular to do so. Example is Snoops forgive.com. Yeah great dictionary term but does it generate any revenue. What company would want to use it for branding?

"Brandable" is the opposite of "generic", rarely will a company pay anything other than reg fee for a "brand" type name that is not a common term. When it is all said and done fogive.com sold for 5 times what I paid for 5.5 years ago, plus it made about $600 in parking revenue in that time.

How have the people who bought hundreds of made up brandable names gone with their investments? Personally I don't know of anybody who has been in the business a while who has kept that strategy, other than pershaps some hobbiests who aren't making a living from the industry. Generally people either moved to generics after a year or so or "dropped" out.

One day I can forsee ad companies buying up hundreds of brandables to keep in stock for future clients. What's a 5L pronouncable dotcom going to be worth to a car company...lexus.com anyone? sentra.com, acura, buick, volvo, SCION, mazda...

That's just cars too so just imagine the upward possibility of brandables. Part of the problem is having too few imho. If you have 20-50 to show a prospective buyer then you stand a greater chance of them finding one they really like.

Even at $200 a brandable and paying $10-$50 each that's a substantial profit. Every single CCC.com is worth at least $150-$200 no matter the combination.

Try actually making money from these. It is one thing to say "if they can just sell for $200" and another to actually see that result. Different people have been thinking up good reasons to buy these names for years way too many combinations compared to the size of the market for these names.

 

[dmi]

Everybody's selling, nobody's buying. Well, almost.

 

[Domagon]

Since New Years, inquiries have gone from few to virtually none.

Some of the slowdown is cyclical, but this definitely seems far worse than years past.

I've got a bunch of domains for sale pinned in Fixed Price forum right now - and after several days only gotten two serious offers, one of which became a sale.

On the bright side, for those buying, they're getting deals like never before.

Ron

 

[goodkarmaco]

There will be an Obama bounce effect for three or four months, where most people will be liulled into thinking the economy is improving and WAll ST rallies again for a short while.

That time frame will see new domain sales. So if you are thinking of selling you may want to sell into that rally.

Then the shit really hits the fan.

 

[Compassion]

We have to remember...

Our domain names are one of a kind!

totally unique...


unlike the counterfeit cotton fiat paper money the privately owned federal reserve continues to print by the truckloads....

 

[Traveler]

This is a buyers market and will be for sometime imho. The economy is not going to recover anytime soon. I think for the next few years and maybe beyond, the smart domainer will hold and look for buying opportunities.

 

[Kate]

This is a buyers market

I can indeed tell you the market is great for buyers now :blink:
There are incredible bargains to be found, and I'm talking about the usual domain sources. They are right in front of you :tu:

 

[Compassion]

I can indeed tell you the market is great for buyers now :blink:
There are incredible bargains to be found, and I'm talking about the usual domain sources. They are right in front of you :tu:

I concur.

 

[-REECE-]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

There will be an Obama bounce effect for three or four months, where most people will be liulled into thinking the economy is improving and WAll ST rallies again for a short while.

That time frame will see new domain sales. So if you are thinking of selling you may want to sell into that rally.

Then the shit really hits the fan.

As for bargains... I see a lot of people saying bargains are everywhere, however I don't see a whole lot of people putting their money where their mouth is. I wouldn't call General Motors stock a bargain, despite it being much lower than it was a year ago.

 

[ZOX]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.



As for bargains... I see a lot of people saying bargains are everywhere, however I don't see a whole lot of people putting their money where their mouth is. I wouldn't call General Motors stock a bargain, despite it being much lower than it was a year ago.

This is kind of how I feel also Reece...but it is true that I see much higher quality names for sale on the forums...for REASONABLE prices! :tu:
...
I think we can compare our Domain Market to the American Housing Market.
Names dropped in value, but only a few have money to buy these days.

 

[Auraka]

As a person who is slowly going into buy mode I think you guys want to keep selling at the old prices or prices you want. If you want to sell, lower your prices just like in any other market. I'm making about 10-15 purchases a week mostly of expired names because people still want ridiculous amounts for ho-hum domains.

 

[DavidH]

Buyers may not be coming to me as much, so I am going to potential buyers and having some great results.

Active rather than passive mode is really working.

 

[Krossat]

Buy Buy buy
One year down the road and you would regret being passive at this time.
The prices have never been lower (well in the recent past anyways)
, and an Investment for an year will fetch you hefty profits.
Also a time to increase the quality of your domains. Spend the same amount, only fetch better domains!

 

[thebutler]

Buy and buy

If the cash was available I'd be buying right now. I've seen some great deals available on various forums. Buy and assume you'll need to hold for at least 18 months.

 

[Alex]

I would also buy domains but need to raise cash from alternative sources. Looking into development maybe.

 

[nicedomains]

I would also buy domains but need to raise cash from alternative sources. Looking into development maybe.

Yes ^ If anything, start projects on your best domains.

It is a buyers market. Also, if you are willing to sell good domains to end users for non astronomical prices it is a good time to do that as well IMO. For example, you have been holding onto that really good (IYO) .com for a couple years now, you only had one end user ever interested but you told them you wanted $8,000 for it and they never replied. Well, unless you are going to develop or the domain gets awesome traffic and ppc, why not get back in contact with that potential buyer and settle for $800? Heck the name only cost you $20 in the aftermarket and 2 years renewal fee. With this money you could get dozens of really good names that people are selling off really cheap right now. Just a thought :zzz:

 

[MicroGuy]

"The end of an empire always comes when its currency is destroyed" - Ron Paul

The scarcity of a name is directly proportional to it's value. The value of the US dollar is constantly being evaporated due to the Federal Reserve's 24-hour printing press. The domaining business is being destroyed by the constant introduction of new TLDs and the exploitation of existing ccTLDs.

It's not time to quit domaining but innovation and adaptation are always neccessary in any business. For me, I'm now concentrating mostly on aged .coms registered in at least one other extension for sale in the aftermarket. Then hunting for end users in hopes of 50% returns or better.

 

[Charley]

I can indeed tell you the market is great for buyers now :blink:

Exactly.

Many of the 2 word good names are going for 1/2 the prices now.

 

[domainz123]

Just got into this domaining thing.

Do feel it is good time to buy