Buyers DO NOT PAY ANY FEES

[equity78]

Seems like we have a bunch of threads lately with people saying that the buyer pays fees. That is against Namepros and Paypal rules, trying to enforce that will result in your sales threads being closed.

If someone pms you that you need to pay fees report immediately to @Eric Lyon and a mod.

Namepros Marketplace in place for over a decade:

6.1.7. Per PayPal TOS, all transactions must have fees charged to the receiver of funds by default. One is not allowed to avoid taxes by asking for payment in the form of a gift. Sellers must either willingly accept fees or clearly include them in the price.

UPDATE:
6.1.7. Sellers are responsible for paying all transaction fees. Sellers should take fees into consideration when choosing sale prices or starting bids. Multiple sale prices and multiple starting bids may be set based on specific criteria. Learn why.

 

[forge]

Basically people are just going to continue to do what they do, for the most part I would say 95% of people do not care, one guy refunded a $300 paypal payment, because I miscalculated the paypal fee by $1.14.

These folks (I'll be nice) are the farthest you can get from "professional". I refunded one seller nearly 100% of PayPal fees after the fact, just out of courtesy. My reward? Not even the simplest "thank you". You think I won't remember that?

NP sellers have the advantage of 0% commissions. Often they'll make much more than they could possibly take at GoDaddy, Flippa or Sedo after commissions. Yet they have no shame passing along the cost to their buyer for fees that they are RESPONSIBLE FOR simply by conducting business (financial transactions) online and the convenience that affords them.

Note: Escrow.com is a completely different matter IMO. Who pays fees is explicitly defined prior to the transaction. No guessing games.

 

[Keith]

Seems like we have a bunch of threads lately with people saying that the buyer pays fees. That is against Namepros and Paypal rules, trying to enforce that will result in your sales threads being closed.

If someone pms you that you need to pay fees report immediately to @Eric Lyon and a mod.

Namepros Marketplace in place for over a decade:

6.1.7. Per PayPal TOS, all transactions must have fees charged to the receiver of funds by default. One is not allowed to avoid taxes by asking for payment in the form of a gift. Sellers must either willingly accept fees or clearly include them in the price.

UPDATE:
6.1.7. Sellers are responsible for paying all transaction fees. Sellers should take fees into consideration when choosing a sale price or starting bid.

I always choose "friends or family" which charges fees to me, the sender. Can anyone explain how this affects taxes and why NP would get in between buyer/seller negotiations?

 

[NameOmnia]

I always choose "friends or family" which charges fees to me, the sender. Can anyone explain how this affects taxes and why NP would get in between buyer/seller negotiations?

My understanding is that if you send as a gift the receiver can avoid to pay taxes on the money; while if you add the fees to the price that would still be recorded as a transaction not as a gift from your mum for example

 

[Eric Lyon]

Ok, one last update and my apologies for the confusion. Sometimes it's hard to translate things or the translation appears to have different meanings for everyone. In this case, I misinterpreted the rule update and have now consulted with some of the other management team members and we updated the rule to be less confusing for everyone (including myself).

The rule update is as follows:

6.1.7. Sellers are responsible for paying all transaction fees. Sellers should take fees into consideration when choosing a sale price or starting bid.

Again, I apologize for the confusion and hope that the updated rule is clearly understood by everyone that No fees can be charged at all to a buyer. A seller must consider the fees when they list their domain for sale. They can compensate with a starting bid that covers fees or possibly ask $15 rather than $10 on a fixed price listing.

From my post before:
The goal of our policies is to provide a positive user experience according to what we believe is fair, easy to understand, and will create a pleasant experience for members.

I hope that clarifies things,

 

[NameOmnia]

Alright, so we can't ...understood but I disagree.

 

[Keith]

It seems like a rule that should be tossed. For example, at Sedo, a seller can contact support to negotiate a deal where the buyer pays commission fees.

This rule at NP is like the government trying to control the people. Let buyers and sellers negotiate a deal that works in a way that both parties get what they want. This nitpicking is ridiculous IMO.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Let buyers and sellers negotiate a deal that works in a way that both parties get what they want.

The rules exist to resolve disputes/issues. If the buyer and seller agree to something else and no one involved have issues, then there is no dispute. In that case, there's no involvement by NamePros.

Clarification:
No one may create a thread that is in violation of the rules.

My comment was referring to private conversations where two members may wish to conduct business in a way where they both agree to something, and to express that it is not our goal to impose on them. However, the rules are the rules, and if any issues arise, those are what we will follow.

 

[NameOmnia]

This nitpicking is ridiculous IMO.

I agree. Once things are openly stated in the auction thread it should be enough; everyone is informed and everyone can decide freely. Also I don't understand why it's ok to charge Escrow/Ecop fees but not PayPal..

 

[NameOmnia]

The rules exist to resolve disputes/issues. If the buyer and seller agree to something else and no one involved have issues, then there is no dispute. In that case, there's no involvement by NamePros.

This does not make sense. It's either one thing is allowed or it's not.

 

[Eric Lyon]

I don't understand why it's ok to charge Escrow/Ecop fees but not PayPal

The rule was updated and no longer mentions PayPal. It applies to all fees.

This does not make sense. It's either one thing is allowed or it's not

It's not allowed, but we do not involve ourselves unless there is an issue.

Clarification:
No one may create a thread that is in violation of the rules.

My comment was referring to private conversations where two members may wish to conduct business in a way where they both agree to something, and to express that it is not our goal to impose on them. However, the rules are the rules, and if any issues arise, those are what we will follow.

 

[Keith]

The rules exist to resolve disputes/issues. If the buyer and seller agree to something else and no one involved have issues, then there is no dispute. In that case, there's no involvement by NamePros.

How could a dispute arise if I create a sales thread and clearly state that all transaction fees are paid by the buyer? Seems reasonable if the seller is upfront about the details.

 

[Eric Lyon]

How could a dispute arise if I create a sales thread and clearly state that all transaction fees are paid by the buyer?

It's been explained to me that it is considered too confusing for some buyers and creates a poor buying experience:

• If the fees are easy to determine beforehand, then they can easily be included in the price or starting bid.
• If they're not easily determined beforehand, then we can see why this makes a poor experience for buyers.

This may require some getting used to, but it should cause less confusion and complaints in the long run.

 

[NameOmnia]

The rule was updated and no longer mentions PayPal. It applies to all fees.


It's not allowed, but we do not involve ourselves unless there is an issue.

Handled this way it all seems a big mess to me..basically it's not allowed but we can..as long as we do not create problems...once again, big mess big nonsense.
Leave people free to conduct their auction the way they want as long as all conditions and requirements are made clear in the opening thread.

 

[Keith]

It's been explained to me that it is considered too confusing for some buyers and creates a poor buying experience:

• If the fees are easy to determine beforehand, then they can easily be included in the price or starting bid.
• If they're not easily determined beforehand, then we can see why this makes a poor experience for the buyers.

This may require some getting used to, but it should cause less confusion and complaints in the long run.

I agree that fees vary depending on which payment processor is selected. It gets gray when a sales thread takes place and the seller will accept multiple payment venues. Usually this is based on a buyer's reputation here.

Maybe it would be better if sellers could ask for fees as long as they provide costs associated with the payment processors they're willing to accept.

 

[Eric Lyon]

To be clear, no one may create a thread/listing that is in violation of the rules.

My comment was referring to private conversations where two members may wish to conduct business in a way where they both agree to something, and to express that it is not our goal to impose on them. However, the rules are the rules, and if any issues arise, those are what we will follow.

 

[forge]

I always choose "friends or family" which charges fees to me, the sender. Can anyone explain how this affects taxes and why NP would get in between buyer/seller negotiations?

This is a clear violation of PayPal TOS. Be mindful.

 

[Keith]

This is a clear violation of PayPal TOS. Be mindful.

How is it a violation to select a provided option given by PayPal? Now we're going to part hairs over the definition of friends?...

 

[iowadawg]

In over 20 years selling on the internet, I have never said there is an extra fee if you purchase this item.
Now domainers, the weirdest group ever, want to start imposing fees on their sales...
Geesh...think some of you should go out in real life and check out how all sorts of things are sold.

 

[Keith]

Geesh...think some of you should go out in real life and check out how all sorts of things are sold.

Try booking a hotel and then talk to me about additional fees. How about cable tv? Endless fees tacked on there.

The fact is, I'm selling something for $100. That doesn't mean $95 depending on how the buyer and I agree to transfer funds.

We are paying developers via PayPal now in installments to build a website. Guess what, all deducted PayPal fees are added on to our final payment. The cost of goods and services is just that.

 

[forge]

How is it a violation to select a provided option given by PayPal? Now we're going to part hairs over the definition of friends?...

Far as I can see, the onus is on the Seller. So they are the ones who should be concerned. But they're too busy being "frugal". *hack* *cough*

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#3

4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

 

[Keith]

Far as I can see, the onus is on the Seller. So they are the ones who should be concerned. But they're too busy being "frugal". *hack* *cough*

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#3

4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

I'm not losing sleep over it, especially since PayPal chose to turn a blind eye to all domain name disputes in the past, as domains are considered intangible items.

 

[forge]

I'm not losing sleep over it, especially since PayPal chose to turn a blind eye to all domain name disputes in the past, as domains are considered intangible items.

If worse turns to worse, you can always turn to your so-called "friends".

You have no buyer protection using "family" pay, but obviously you're willing to take that risk.

(What you just said.)

 

[forge]

Now domainers, the weirdest group ever

Indisputable fact.

 

[Keith]

If worse turns to worse, you can always turn to your so-called "friends".

I use PayPal tons. So much so that half the time I select friends/family there are absolutely no fees to me or the seller. To me this is good business. You sell something at a certain price, I as the buyer should make sure you get the total fee for goods.

As far as NP is concerned, the rules are silly. They should get out of the way between buyers and sellers as they aren't the domain police.

 

[iowadawg]

I have yet to go to a grocery store and have a fee added on because I bought apples.
I have yet to go to a restaurant and have a fee added on because i got a baked potato.
I have yet to go to any store and buy any product, from shoes to suits to legos, and have a fee added.
Now hotels/motels, airlines, cruise ships, etal....
They are like domainers, want more than what they sell.