BrandBucket Experience

[xtremex]

hello

I am new to BrandBucket. Before getting my hands on this

I wish to experience about brandbucket from my fellow members


Thanks

 

[DomainVP]

Why? I like bold statements like these but only if they come with some sort of substantiation.

I've written a diatribe on brandables previously somewhere. I can't write 20 minute epilogues all of the time :p

To sum it up... companies aren't naive to the whole 'brandable' game anymore. It is why Brandbucket has released their onslaught of 'acceptance' for every name they can get into their marketplace. The business model is no longer viable and they can take what they can get.

Notice how bad their lists of names have become?

There is a learning curve to domaining that businesses had not caught up to yet, and they are catching up. So back in Brandbuckets hayday you could hand reg some decent brandabes and sell them for thousands because their marketplace had a decent sales pitch.

Now companies know better and know that they can find better names for cheaper prices, or handreg them on their own.

In addition, most companies are willing to pay more for a better keyword related name than to spend any money on a brandable they they will have to dump a lot of marketing into.

The game is over, and the actions of the marketplaces are clear signs of that.

Domainers will always be on the cutting edge of domains, it's the business, but eventually people catch up. Why pay a huge amount of money for a domain from a domainer when you can just do exactly what we do and get a great name at auction prices.

It's not rocket science.

In about 5 years, jig will be up completely, so to speak.

It's already happening now, but businesses have such a slow learning curve that it will take at least 5 years for all industries to catch up. In 7 years, the general public will rush to domaining like wildfire.

Notice how Google has gotten involved in domains all of the sudden, they see what's coming.

I equate the industry right now to the BitCoin industry when a BTC was $50 - $75. Sure 10,000 BTC = 1 Pizza at one time, and amazing six figure names could be scooped up for $5k, but now things are a little more pricey... but there is still a great deal of room for a booming profit.

This is good for us now because any decent names that we can snatch up now will be a windfall of profit when the market is at its peak.

But I digress...

I'm not saying brandables are out as a whole. The USPTO recommends that you name your company something brandable, they are legally called 'fanciful' names.

However, the game is over for brandables unless they are TRULY brandable domains that you fight for at auction, not this handreg junk Brandbucket has flooded its market with.

Even if you have an amazing brandable domain, selling it with brandbucket is foolish. 30% gone off the bat, fees, low pricing evaluatins by Brandbucket staff, and putting your name among that garbage only devalues your asset.

Okay, you got me to write a diatribe anyway. Lol. That's my take.

 

[Doron Vermaat]

I've written a diatribe on brandables previously somewhere. I can't write 20 minute epilogues all of the time :p

To sum it up... companies aren't naive to the whole 'brandable' game anymore. It is why Brandbucket has released their onslaught of 'acceptance' for every name they can get into their marketplace. The business model is no longer viable and they can take what they can get.

Notice how bad their lists of names have become?

There is a learning curve to domaining that businesses had not caught up to yet, and they are catching up. So back in Brandbuckets hayday you could hand reg some decent brandabes and sell them for thousands because their marketplace had a decent sales pitch.

Now companies know better and know that they can find better names for cheaper prices, or handreg them on their own.

In addition, most companies are willing to pay more for a better keyword related name than to spend any money on a brandable they they will have to dump a lot of marketing into.

The game is over, and the actions of the marketplaces are clear signs of that.

Domainers will always be on the cutting edge of domains, it's the business, but eventually people catch up. Why pay a huge amount of money for a domain from a domainer when you can just do exactly what we do and get a great name at auction prices.

It's not rocket science.

In about 5 years, jig will be up completely, so to speak.

It's already happening now, but businesses have such a slow learning curve that it will take at least 5 years for all industries to catch up. In 7 years, the general public will rush to domaining like wildfire.

Notice how Google has gotten involved in domains all of the sudden, they see what's coming.

I equate the industry right now to the BitCoin industry when a BTC was $50 - $75. Sure 10,000 BTC = 1 Pizza at one time, and amazing six figure names could be scooped up for $5k, but now things are a little more pricey... but there is still a great deal of room for a booming profit.

This is good for us now because any decent names that we can snatch up now will be a windfall of profit when the market is at its peak.

But I digress...

I'm not saying brandables are out as a whole. The USPTO recommends that you name your company something brandable, they are legally called 'fanciful' names.

However, the game is over for brandables unless they are TRULY brandable domains that you fight for at auction, not this handreg junk Brandbucket has flooded its market with.

Even if you have an amazing brandable domain, selling it with brandbucket is foolish. 30% gone off the bat, fees, low pricing evaluatins by Brandbucket staff, and putting your name among that garbage only devalues your asset.

Okay, you got me to write a diatribe anyway. Lol. That's my take.

Thanks for the write-up. Some arguments that I agree with. Others, not so much. To me it sounds more like you're saying: "Get out of "domaining" while you still can!". Because if companies know how to find Namejet or other domainer hangouts they can also get their own EMD instead of buying it from a domainer, right?

Personally I see a trend away from keyword domains and more companies choosing for a brand instead. Especially since Google doesnt care much anymore about EMD or keyword rich domains. Domain Holdings just released their Q2 sales report and with 15% of sales brandables accounted for large and growing number of the 10 million usd in sales that quarter.

 

[DomainVP]

I agree, brandables are still a premium asset. Just not 95% of the ones listed on BrandBucket. Domain Holdings is an entirely different beast, they have brandables that would sell for low 5-figures at auction alone.

7 years is a long time, and the time is now to buy. But yes, in about 5-7 years domaining will be dead completely; with end users right at the point of auction purchase. So get what you can now and hold on tight.

It's the 'tech-curve' I saw it with eBay when I owned an online cell phone recycling business. I was wildly successful at a time when people were still afraid to use eBay, or didn't understand it; and companies were not buying back phones yet (2004-2007).

Four years later, the market was so flooded that margins became low, and that was a wrap.

I see this happening with domaining in the 5-7 year range.

It also doesn't help that every spamming idiot eMails domain owners and lets them know that a domain they 'could be interested in' will be available shortly and they will get it for you for $250. As the years go on, more of these kind of 'companies' will emerge and premium domain buyers will just go an buy it themselves as soon as they get an eMail like that.

Of course by this time any good 5L.com will all be taken, possibly all combinations, and the excellent domains that we buy now will all be 'premium'.

 

[12345]

Like DV mentioned, you seem to be against the domain industry in general.

When I take a look at your website, you seem to specialize in brandables, yet you are telling everyone to get out the marketplace.

Yes, BB takes 30%, but well over 90% of their sales are sold at listing price which is a pretty remarkable number. Only 1 out of my 21 sales have been below listing and I have had a handful sell in the mid-high $xxxx range.

Below is a very typical experience for me, and I think, for many other domainers...

Let's say you have a domain listed for $2K on your site. An interested buyer comes and offers you $1K and you both agree on $1.5K and you pay the escrow. If they pay by c/c, which they will, that is $100 right there. So your "$2k" name becomes $1400. If you have a $2K name on BB, your take home on that sale after commissions and paying a logo designer $100, is $1300.

The difference is only $100 or 5% of your asking price.

If you are super successful selling domains on your own, then by all means, continue doing what you are doing, but I learned very quickly in the business world, and the domain business specifically, that 70% of something is much better than 100% of nothing.

 

[NameFu]

It's worth noting that half, if not most of the domains sales reported on DNJournal.com are brandables...

 

[12345]

I should also say that my personal domain approach is more about moving inventory than holding onto a name for more money. Yes, I have some that I wouldn't let go for under $10K, but if you are paying reg fee for a name, I will take $1K take-home for that name all day long, and invest that in more names.

 

[DomainVP]

Like DV mentioned, you seem to be against the domain industry in general.

When I take a look at your website, you seem to specialize in brandables, yet you are telling everyone to get out the marketplace.

Yes, BB takes 30%, but well over 90% of their sales are sold at listing price which is a pretty remarkable number. Only 1 out of my 21 sales have been below listing and I have had a handful sell in the mid-high $xxxx range.

Below is a very typical experience for me and I think for many other domainers...

Let's say you have a domain listed for $2K on your site. An interested buyer comes and offers you $1K and you both agree on $1.5K and you pay the escrow. If they pay by c/c, which they will, that is $100 right there. So your "$2k" name becomes $1400. If you have a $2K name on BB, your take home on that sale after commissions and paying a logo designer $100, is $1300.

The difference is only $100 or 5% of your asking price.

If you are super successful selling domains on your own, then by all means, continue doing what you are doing, but I learned very quickly in the business world, and the domain business specifically, that 70% of something is much better than 100% of nothing.

My tone is harsh, you make accusations against me and give such terrible advice, you deserve it.

You have a huge love affair with BrandBucket since you are a " Brand Ambassador" for the company, we get it. Everything you say is spin for their service, that's your job. However I have time, and a lot to say. I will GLADLY counter any nonsense you are spouting.

Your 'arguments' are so logically flawed that it's almost hard for me to even reply to such nonsense.

Let's say you have a domain listed for $2K on your site. An interested buyer comes and offers you $1K and you decline the offer and both agree on $2K and they pay the escrow. So your "$2k" name becomes $2000. If you have a $2K name on BB, your take home on that sale after commissions and paying a logo designer $100, is $1300.

$1,300 < $2000 (that symbol is the 'less than' symbol)

100% is better than your proposed 70%.

I could run scenarios that debunk your statement all day, however it's just as logically sound as your example; so I won't bother.

P.S. - What seller doesn't include buyer paid escrow during a transaction? You don't absorb that cost, you pass it onto the buyer. If they aren't okay with that, then you move on and they don't deserve your name. I have never sold a name that the buyer didn't pay the escrow, especially for $xx,xxx transactions.

So you went to my site and saw brandables, and you see a brandable marketplace... so if I'm advocating for people to get out of junk hang reg brandables what do you think this tells you? Could it be that I am getting out as well... I wonder.

Also since most people can't read a post past the word 'THE', I'll say it again... NOT ALL BRANDABLES ARE JUNK. However the majority of them listed on BrandBucket are. They are trash, rubbish, and nonsense. I challenge anyone to go look at the list and evaluate the names for themselves... go ahead.. http://BrandBucket.com . Then come back and tell me what you see.

It's a flooded marketplace with nonsense names that are being marketed as 'premium brandables'. I cannotburst your bubble Mr.Krell, because you know darn well that the bubble has already burst. Heck, you have resorted to damage control here in domain forums. When that time comes, the ship has sailed.

True brandables are worth money, gibberish that has been hand regged the day before listing at brand bucket are junk domains and businesses know it.

If you picked up a brandable and you didn't have to fight of it at auction, it is most likely junk. Now this does not apply in ALL cases, but due to the current market if a name slips all the way down to hand reg status it should be a sign that the name is rubbish. Your service lists it anyway.

Your standards are different than mine, and thats fine, but I am more interested in names that can hold a premium price tag with average interest.

DV did NOT say "you seem to be against the domain industry in general", what he said was, "To me it sounds more like you're saying: "Get out of "domaining" while you still can!"

What I actually said was that the next 5 to 7 years will be great for people that are buying good names NOW. After that time, domaining will be dead. I don't know what business you were in previous to this, but I have been a developer for 10+ years. This pattern has followed a lot of other business models and industries online.

We profit on the lack of knowledge that people have for domain acquisition and sales. That's it. That's all there really is to it. This isn't brain surgery, we are digital repo-men that know how to read drop sheets. Some of us are better at it than others, but that's all it takes to be a 'domain investor', to which I am one.

Once that awareness and knowledge increases, there is nothing to stop an end user from heading over to a DC service and just paying high auction prices for a name they want. It's already happening, and this will increase.

However, this buying shift will make the names we hold onto now so much more valuable.

If I were against domaining I wouldn't be doing it. Again, nice attempt on 'spin' Mr.Kell, but it's just plain slander on your part. Works good for politicians, not so much for failing markets with clear issues.

So far you highlighted two things, #1 that you have a love affair with BrandBucket. #2, that your arguments are nowhere near being logically sound.

As for "I will take $1K take-home for that name all day long, and invest that in more names." this is nothing new, it's basic inventory management. Buy low, sell high, get more names. However, many of the names I personally buy now are going to run $300 to $1500 minimum at auction; so to sell one name for $1,000 is not of much interest because it does not help me expand my inventory unless I want to take a shot at some lower quality names.

If you want to slum at BrandBucket and give them 30% of your success, that is fine. You most likely don't pay the 30% because you are some kind of employee... but I won't speculate.

Maybe you shouldn't come on making snarky comments against people. It just invites me to write a longer analysis of your dying snake-oil sales approach to brandables.

Instead of trying to mitigate the negative flow of reviews your service is getting why don't you focus on buying better names and introducing them to your marketplace, or do a better job of client outreach and bringing in more premium brandables that deserve the price tag you have placed on some of these names.

Good day sir.

 

[DomainVP]

I equate the industry right now to the BitCoin industry when a BTC was $50 - $75. Sure 10,000 BTC = 1 Pizza at one time, and amazing six figure names could be scooped up for $5k, but now things are a little more pricey... but there is still a great deal of room for a booming profit.

To lend to this... an article just came out at DomainInvesting detailing how TMZ owner Harvey levin paid exactly $5k for TMZ.com. He had an assistant meet the seller in person and paid them $5,000 in cash for the transaction in the mid 2000's.

But what do I know

 

[12345]

Just to clear things up I am not a BB employee. I run a web/mobile dev shop and sell domains. Thanks!

 

[12345]

DomainVP... I also wish you the best in your domain endeavors!

 

[margotb]

Just to clear things up I am not a BB employee. I run a web/mobile dev shop and sell domains. Thanks!

I can back this up. We have a great relationship with Michael and we identified within a month of him listing his first batch of domains that he has a great eye for names that our buyers love. His overall sales (number, value and percentage of portfolio) are among the best of our sellers. His values and objectives as a domain seller also align very well with ours -- pricing reasonably, and making a business out of high turnover rather than waiting for one or two large payouts.

We asked Michael to come on board as a "Brand Ambassador" because sharing his experience with BrandBucket helps us recruit more owners of good domain names that our customers like, which in turn drives more eyeballs to all of our names, which is a win for everyone on the platform, including him. He's not an employee, and he pays the same commission as everyone else.

 

[margotb]

I've written a diatribe on brandables previously somewhere. I can't write 20 minute epilogues all of the time :p

To sum it up... companies aren't naive to the whole 'brandable' game anymore. It is why Brandbucket has released their onslaught of 'acceptance' for every name they can get into their marketplace. The business model is no longer viable and they can take what they can get.

Notice how bad their lists of names have become?

There is a learning curve to domaining that businesses had not caught up to yet, and they are catching up. So back in Brandbuckets hayday you could hand reg some decent brandabes and sell them for thousands because their marketplace had a decent sales pitch.

Now companies know better and know that they can find better names for cheaper prices, or handreg them on their own.

In addition, most companies are willing to pay more for a better keyword related name than to spend any money on a brandable they they will have to dump a lot of marketing into.

The game is over, and the actions of the marketplaces are clear signs of that.

Domainers will always be on the cutting edge of domains, it's the business, but eventually people catch up. Why pay a huge amount of money for a domain from a domainer when you can just do exactly what we do and get a great name at auction prices.

It's not rocket science.

In about 5 years, jig will be up completely, so to speak.

It's already happening now, but businesses have such a slow learning curve that it will take at least 5 years for all industries to catch up. In 7 years, the general public will rush to domaining like wildfire.

Notice how Google has gotten involved in domains all of the sudden, they see what's coming.

I equate the industry right now to the BitCoin industry when a BTC was $50 - $75. Sure 10,000 BTC = 1 Pizza at one time, and amazing six figure names could be scooped up for $5k, but now things are a little more pricey... but there is still a great deal of room for a booming profit.

This is good for us now because any decent names that we can snatch up now will be a windfall of profit when the market is at its peak.

But I digress...

I'm not saying brandables are out as a whole. The USPTO recommends that you name your company something brandable, they are legally called 'fanciful' names.

However, the game is over for brandables unless they are TRULY brandable domains that you fight for at auction, not this handreg junk Brandbucket has flooded its market with.

Even if you have an amazing brandable domain, selling it with brandbucket is foolish. 30% gone off the bat, fees, low pricing evaluatins by Brandbucket staff, and putting your name among that garbage only devalues your asset.

Okay, you got me to write a diatribe anyway. Lol. That's my take.

There's many good points here, and I agree with them. It's true like with most businesses where there is a knowledge gap between end users and sellers, as end users get more savvy it requires the business to pivot or fail.

However, from all of our experience talking to our customers, most of them are already pretty versed on domains and the internet in general, and what they appreciate is not having to search for hours to find a hand-reg name. In other words, our value proposition started out as a less expensive and faster alternative to branding agencies, and that still holds true to today.

You pointed out the increase in our inventory, and especially on the lower end (lower prices, not-as-great names). You're absolutely right. Many of these names would not have made the cut before, many of them are hand-reg, and most likely many of them will decrease in value much in faster than others. Our previous strategy of keeping the marketplace very exclusive -- being very picky about names and keeping prices averaging around $2500 -- was fantastic for our buyers who could afford those prices. However, we were not only turning away MANY buyers who loved our concept but who had much smaller budgets, but we were denying sellers the opportunity to get their good-but-not-fantastic names sold. As you can read in many other posts about BrandBucket and similar marketplaces going way back, our rejection rate soured a lot of people, especially when they were able to sell a name we rejected on their own (usually for at or under $1k.)

Not only do we have a lot more names for our buyers to choose from now (and there has been a substantial increase in sales under the $1500 mark since we relaxed our submission criteria), but we're also pushing hard on the more exclusive and expensive end. It's more rare to find a buyer with a budget HIGHER than our average than lower, but due to a lot of word of mouth and repeat buyers, we do get contacted by them. We are not timid about listing names in the 5 figures, and we sell them about as fast as anything else on the marketplace...hence our push to get more.

 

[JB Lions]

He's not an employee, and he pays the same commission as everyone else.

Not an employee, but partner that gets "special perks, resources and budgets to help them promote their portfolios"

Nothing wrong with that at all btw.

Might give it a try myself on a couple of names to see how it goes.

 

[DomainVP]

Margot, I applaud your entrepreneurial spirit. You have done an exceptional job with identifying a niche, and servicing a need.

You are a trailblazer, which is so very rare.

However, for you, the head of the entire BrandBucket operation to appear on this thread to comment on my observations speaks louder than anything I could say.

Thank you for clearing up the role of Mr.Krell with your organization; we're all allowed perks in life right! He really loves BrandBucket, you should promote him.

I do wish you the best of success, but we both know it's going to get very tight for 'brandables'. Those 'lower' sales are going to keep getting lower and the volume will increase for a short while, but then taper off.

You can read your data, you know the general learning curve and trends of domain buying, I don't have to tell you this. However most people have lofty ambitions to hand reg a brandable domain, list it with your service, and have it sell for what names previously sold for.

That time is over.

I think lowering the acceptance bar has done damage to the perceived quality of your names, but when you have new emerging business reaching small businesses that don't know any better I guess it really doesn't matter in the immediate future. However the general seller can expect a lower margin of profit from low-quality brandables, whereas some of them were getting $5k+ with a fast turn around.

When I share my opinion, I share it for everyone. I don't profit off of anything, and I have no agenda.

When I started domaining one of the top domainers on this Earth took a look at my portfolio and told me it was junk and took the time to point me in the right direction; giving me sound advice. I was upset and a little angry at first. Then I realized, he was 100% right.

Someone took the time to help me, so I take the time to help others. Plus I'm opinionated, and often highly accurate.

None of my opinions were to upset the flow of business or general opinion of brandBucket, but to aid other domainers in placing their time and efforts in places where their investments will be more profitable; in themselves.

You know what they say about getting the job done yourself.

Here's to braving the storm! Cheers.

 

[NameOffice.]

@michaeljkrell with your impressive domain portfolio and quantity of sales, which I also had a BB once, why are you still selling with them? I quickly saw the shortcomings of BB and bounced when I had the opportunity, only to make almost 10x more profits on my own at my own marketplace, as well as selling many more 5 figure domains than I ever did there. Marketplaces like BB (including the one that I run) should be used for domain hobbyists with a small to moderate portfolio, not someone with a portfolio large enough to be considered a business. I would always encourage anyone with that many domains to start something on their own.

You said it yourself, "I run a web/mobile dev shop and sell domains." If you are a web developer then what exactly is preventing you from selling these domains on your own? I estimate that you've paid BB at least $15,000 in success fees and at least $2,500 in logo design awards, with you ending up with about $35,000.

It likely would have taken you 10-15 less domain sales, on your own, to make just the $35,000.

With you being a developer, as I also was starting Brandroot, and being entrepreneurial minded, I cannot make sense of the advantages you see with listing your impressive list with a marketplace that significantly cuts into your income. Was $17.5k (more or less), and much more to come (I hope), really worth ceding your own business opportunity?

P.S. @margotb When are you going to add a profile image?

 

[12345]

Hey, Michael. Thanks for the kind words regarding my portfolio.

I have been domaining aggressively for about a year now and I still have my own site, Mediaplow.com, where I have other domains, which I hope the majority will eventually go into BB. In my experience, the names have sold much more quickly on BB, than on my own site. Yes, I have definitely sold domains on my site (its been live for about 7-8 months), but almost every single sale was from type-in traffic and I really didn't have the connections and network to consistently sell them.

BB does have a nice established network of VCs and entrepreneurs that I think is very suited toward my tech oriented names. I also believe that BB has allowed me to sell names for more than what I would originally sell them for. The majority of my sales on BB are actually from handreg names, and I have received mid $xxxx take home for names that I honestly didn't think were worth more than $1K.

I know this is a small sample size, but this year my BB take-home amount has pretty much matched my own site's take home amount. That's with about 100 names on BB for most of the year, and over a 1000 names on my own site.

Like anything in the web/mobile world today, building a website or a mobile app is the easy part, marketing and selling is the much harder task.

 

[NameOffice.]

Gotcha, so it's a gradual acquisition. BB is buying out your presence as much as possible, but instead you're paying THEM to do it. Makes sense. Good luck Mate!

 

[Rick Pereira]

michaeljkrell can you msg me so that i can run some names by you? Want to see if they are worth putting them up

 

[12345]

Gotcha, so it's a gradual acquisition. BB is buying out your presence as much as possible, but instead you're paying THEM to do it. Makes sense. Good luck Mate!

I think you overestimate my "presence."

michaeljkrell can you msg me so that i can run some names by you? Want to see if they are worth putting them up

Sure, will do...

 

[margotb]

P.S. @margotb When are you going to add a profile image?

Done. If you want to see what I really look like you can always visit me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/margotb or here: https://plus.google.com/116105513881874030085/posts