Brandbucket Challenges Dnbolt For Reporting Sales Data

[Dnbolt]

Hi guys today I made a final decision to join namepros. I don’t normally participate in forums discussions etc. I have BIG concern that I want to share with you and get your opinions.

Little bit about myself: l am a student, I recently developed interest in data, I am a part time domain investor, I spend most of my time creating unbeatable algorithms and finally as you may know I publish BB sales at dnbolt

About a year I started developing interests in brandabale domain. I needed to get some insight about sold domains from brandbucket but quickly learnt brandbucket doesn’t publish them. But fortunately enough we all know that in the domain name world most data is obtainable, right?

To keep things short, I have been getting emails from brandbucket asking me if I can prevent making the data crawlable by search engine technically asking me to make the content available to just myself.
Months later I got a forwarded email asking if I can obfuscate the sold domains I have listed to prevent google indexing the content. But to be honest if google index my content on search how is that my problem?
Surprisingly they have even gone the extent of contacting my hosting provider. I was a little bit upset that they contacted my hosting as I was only being helpful providing data to those who needed it and instead of getting a pat on the back for my hard work, I got accused and an invisible spanking.


My question to you is.

1. How can a marketplace try to claim ownership or exclusive rights to a domain that has been SOLD and no longer listed on the site for sale?
2. How can a SOLD DOMAIN still belong to the previous marketplace in any way, shape or or form?
3. Why can’t they be happy that I am helping them to publish sales data for free?
4. Does BB have any right to challenge Dnbolt for the kind service he renders?
5. Do I have to listen to BB and stop proving sales data to the public?


I would like to hear your thoughts thanks.

 

[Dnbolt]

Your comment is amazing. You obviously are new to the field if in it at all. If people could get all the data they wanted via scraping, we wouldn't need to buy it from data warehouses.... amazing your ignorance on something you claim to know...

Again not going into detail and have no time for arguments.I didn't ask you to use my data period.

 

[svede]

Again not going into detail and have no time for arguments.I didn't ask you to use my data period.

The point of my argument was NOT to discuss the technical of it anyway. How do you answer my accusation that it is missing data. From my perspective that is FACT (I don't need to prove it to anyone else, I know what I sold and you are missing it). So how do you explain that? How can you prove that you aren't missing more data? THAT was my primary point which you conveniently ignored...

Oh and you didn't ask me to use your data, no, but if you are going to use it in your arguments, you BETTER be able to back it up or else go somewhere else to discuss your dreamworld.

 

[Dnbolt]

The point of my argument was NOT to discuss the technical of it anyway. How do you answer my accusation that it is missing data. From my perspective that is FACT (I don't need to prove it to anyone else, I know what I sold and you are missing it). So how do you explain that? How can you prove that you aren't missing more data? THAT was my primary point which you conveniently ignored...

Oh and you didn't ask me to use your data, no, but if you are going to use it in your arguments, you BETTER be able to back it up or else go somewhere else to discuss your dreamworld.

How can you know data is missing when only 2 months worth of sales are presented? An even if your claim is true(which I doubt) then from a statistical point of view a reasonable large data is enough to experiment with.

 

[svede]

How can you know that it is missing when only 3 months of sales are presented? An even if your claim is true from a statistical point of view a reasonable large data is enough to experiment with.

You are missing it from your data when you included other sales from the same time period and well before.

Secondly, from a statistical perspective, BB in itself is not a large data set. A single sale makes a huge impact in numbers. 2-3 data points missing totally skews your data. So, no, you don't have a large enough data set and I don't trust it and suggest others not as well. We have had so much baseless discussion on the basis that your data is accurate when you have no proof that it is and your argument is that your data sampling is big enough. That is a joke. You are a fraud at what you claim to do and people should see that.

 

[DU]

You are missing it from your data when you included other sales from the same time period and well before.

Secondly, from a statistical perspective, BB in itself is not a large data set. A single sale makes a huge impact in numbers. 2-3 data points missing totally skews your data. So, no, you don't have a large enough data set and I don't trust it and suggest others not as well. We have had so much baseless discussion on the basis that your data is accurate when you have no proof that it is and your argument is that your data sampling is big enough. That is a joke. You are a fraud at what you claim to do and people should see that.

You're looking for accuracy in sales data in the domain industry? Did you hear about the guy who sold a hand-reg a few months later for XX,XXX?
Me too. Lots of times

"A single sale makes a huge impact in numbers. 2-3 data points missing totally skews your data."
Not really, statistically speaking you don't need much data to get a pretty good analysis of things

 

[svede]

You're looking for accuracy in sales data in the domain industry? Did you hear about the guy who sold a hand-reg a few months later for XX,XXX?
Me too. Lots of times

"A single sale makes a huge impact in numbers. 2-3 data points missing totally skews your data."
Not really, statistically speaking you don't need much data to get a pretty good analysis of things

This is out of context here, it came from another thread. In the context of that discussion (and not the whole domain industry), 2-3 data points DOES skew the data. Unfortunately, the posts were moved here where they don't have the full discussion or context.

 

[Recons.Com]

I have explained many times how it's done. You really think I just check whois? If you read carefully you will know when it started. Your sold domain is still in the database. But without price so if you like I can present it to you.

Thanks for your work. I'd love to see the ones sold but with no price as well. When I look through your list I am not so much interested in prices, as in what sells. I can figure out the pricing ranges pretty accurately regardless and it is not that material if the specific name sold for $2000 or $2500 as it would average out through the portfolio anyway.

 

[Dnbolt]

Thanks for your work. I'd love to see the ones sold but with no price as well. When I look through your list I am not so much interested in prices, as in what sells. I can figure out the pricing ranges pretty accurately regardless and it is not that material if the specific name sold for $2000 or $2500 as it would average out through the portfolio anyway.

Thinking of a way to get it done, perhaps by implementing a search feature.

 

[Recons.Com]

Thinking of a way to get it done, perhaps by implementing a search feature.

Well, you have all the sold info and the dates for them. All you need to do, maybe, is just another separate list "all names without prices". Of course, it would be also helpful to implement a filter. Show only starting with, ending with, contains, number of characters etc.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

It is funny how everyone demands BB to be transparent....yet sellers need to be secretive.

His sale did not relate to the BrandBucket experience. You are not investing into his company via listing fee's. It is his choice what he wants to share with you. You saying it's funny, is IMO, very disrespectful.

Not all BB sellers who report their sales here are as transparent as they lead you, and everyone else, on to believe.

I apologize @Justin Matmor , I may have came off a little strong. I realize you are knew here. Allow me to explain a cause and effect of sharing sales. Say this is a repeat buyer for @Recons.Com and once he reveals the domain, you, another domainer, or even another marketplace can choose to look up the WHOIS and target the email as an enduser for related brandable domains.

I have long debated if I should mention this in the debate about BB having their sales reported, as this is currently a bullet point, if mentioned, I have trouble with when debating the other side. I see pros and cons in both.

More sales reported by marketplace = equals greater transparency + greater hype - buyers emails are now potentially exposed.

More sales reported by domainer = more likes + more respect (what do they gain by being 100% transparent in reporting their sold domain besides a more pumped up ego and possibly greater respect)

 

[Justin Matmor]

On the subject of quality, the following BB names were recently listed here on NP for sale. How on earth were these approved?
qoovu
ruwwa
ruqoo
wiqoo
xuqoo
xozia

 

[DonDraper]

ruqoo

xuqoo

These 2 are CVCOO.com are a solid investment imho

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Obviously "Pure" CVCOO.com (Pasoo, Teroo, Novoo) are Top Tier
But as Second chance X and Q could be a long term investment

Agreed @DonDraper !!

I'll be doing some sales analysis with @Dnbolt to show @Justin Matmor and other new investors how solid CVCoo domain investments are.

Until then @Justin Matmor, I'm going to follow in @Recons.Com footsteps...

I am electing to ignore you going forward. I have strong reasons to believe that you are on NP for specific reason of attacking anyone who has BB related concerns and I don't want to waste my time responding to you.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

When I sold Peqoo.com for low x,xxx I actually lolled

Nice sale: Congrats!

These 2 are CVCOO.com are a solid investment imho

Remember when @Dnbolt shared with us the domain which had the fastest turnover time in March? It was a CVCoo,

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Peqoo 48 hours

Thanks for sharing... Great minds think alike!

I had an alert set for Peqoo sent to me 4 days before you registered it

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Some of my latest BB posts have been moved to this thread. Keeping on the subject of BrandBucket Challenges DNBolt for reporting sales (interesting story: originally a NP member challenged DNBolt for reporting sales, not BrandBucket. DNBolt adhered to BB wishes and obfuscated the data)

Would the community benefit from DNBolt reporting sales analysis on their site? I've agreed to help break down sales with them, pending they release all data, for fair evaluations. This would include amount of pattern sales such as CVCVCV, CVCoo, etc. The breakdown will also include sold domains with certain keywords such as Green, IQ, Cloud, etc. Additionally, we will evaluate the sold domains to see which, if any, were similar to a GreenTreeCo buys GreenTree rebranding sale of an obvious enduser.

The question is, if @Dnbolt is already disclosing sales, should we detail these sales, and show everyone how these domains can be found?

 

[svede]

I've said before, but I know personally there is missing data from DNBolt's data. I also know from a technical standpoint that his data is not going to be dependable. Nobody should be making decisions on this. I want BB to share more data as much as the next guy, but using corrupt data to make accusations and decisions is about the worst thing we can do. We end up looking like guys running around with tin-foil hats rather than logical domainers. Personally, I think we get more sway with companies like BB when we don't look like people that are ignorant of reason.

I believe in fairness. There are more domainers, than marketplaces.

Well bb sellers aren't on NamePros reporting sales as often as previous months.

Did the MD of bb start informing their sellers of the bb sales? If we can't use @Dnbolt, and others aren't reporting sales, how are we supposed to know if bb is worth investing in. I was under the impression bb averaged around 80 monthly sales. Can anyone confirm if it's more or less?

I understand that DNBolt is the only one offering you data and you don't have any data to claim without his, but why would you use bad data over no data? If I did that in my day job, I would be fired instantly. That is no way to handle data or run a business. We need to pressure BB for data, not rely on a proven incomplete and very poor attempt at collecting data.

Also, I don't report everything I sell. Why? Because people like DNBolt...

 

[Recons.Com]

It is basically the same users trying to discredit DNBolt data without providing any other alternative.

Basically, if they were truly concerned they would write something along this lines:

"yes, we realize that this is the only publicly available data and if you are going to use it, be cautious to make conclusions on this, as there are missing data points". Instead, they will tell you that no data is better for you than sample with missing data points.

Also, if DNBolt has 80 present data points for the month, how many could be missing?!

The same guys are fine making conclusions from search results, registration age, number of potential end users, patterns etc. when deciding which names to acquire without bothering that they might be missing data points and/or it could be inaccurate.

From statistics point of view, if DNBolt has 80 data points and there are 80-100 sales and there is no reason to believe that the missing points are of certain pattern (they are random), conclusions from 80 data points are fine for general conclusions.

 

[svede]

It is basically the same users trying to discredit DNBolt data without providing any other alternative.

Basically, if they were truly concerned they would write something along this lines:

"yes, we realize that this is the only publicly available data and if you are going to use it, be cautious to make conclusions on this, as there are missing data points". Instead, they will tell you that no data is better for you than sample with missing data points.

Also, if DNBolt has 80 present data points for the month, how many could be missing?!

The same guys are fine making conclusions from search results, registration age, number of potential end users, patterns etc. when deciding which names to acquire without bothering that they might be missing data points and/or it could be inaccurate.

From statistics point of view, if DNBolt has 80 data points and there are 80-100 sales and there is no reason to believe that the missing points are of certain pattern (they are random), conclusions from 80 data points are fine for general conclusions.

My interest is not in discrediting DNBolt, but to get people to use logic. I am neither on DNBolt's side or BB's side. I use BB. I use other platforms. I like things about BB. I dislike things about BB. But I refuse to use bad data to make arguments for or against them. If data is not valid, you can't use it (or shouldn't use it). People are making claims using data that is false. It would be better to not use any data that to use it. I am not offering an alternative, because there isn't one. I want one! But using bad data because there isn't an alternative is a HORRIBLE decision.

 

[Recons.Com]

My interest is not in discrediting DNBolt, but to get people to use logic. I am neither on DNBolt's side or BB's side. I use BB. I use other platforms. I like things about BB. I dislike things about BB. But I refuse to use bad data to make arguments for or against them. If data is not valid, you can't use it (or shouldn't use it). People are making claims using data that is false. It would be better to not use any data that to use it. I am not offering an alternative, because there isn't one. I want one! But using bad data because there isn't an alternative is a HORRIBLE decision.

Svede, you are IT guy, right?

Let's see the situation from your professional unbiased (hopefully view).

A BB seller has 2 alternatives regarding DNBolt data:

1. Ignore
2. Use and extrapolate

What we know:

a) DNBolt has 80 sales listed for last month.
b) BB makes around 80 sales in a typical month with +/- 20% variation adjusted for the size of portfolio
c) from a) and b) we conclude that DNBolt might be missing 0 to 16 sales.
d) no reason to believe that missing data points are not random

Now tell me, is a BB seller better of choosing alternative 1. or alternative 2?

 

[Recons.Com]

When someone presents data, all you need to prove it is corrupt is to present one case (basic boolean logic). I and others have already presented multiple instances in the past. The burden is on HIM to prove it is accurate.

Do you really think polling and surveys as so accurate? Unfortunately, their inaccuracy is usually for other reasons (small subset or targeting specific people to get specific results). To more accurately compare the two, the comparison would be polling 100 people and then giving the results, but people know that you could have left off any number of people who responded to the poll or added people to it that never responded.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. You are okay with using bad data. Don't ever try to get a job using data, especially in the tech industry and you won't make it. That's not a smart way to operate.

All the best!

Yeah, right. Tech industry makes bunch of conclusions based on 100% accuracy.

What you are missing is this: without any data, all you can conclude is 50/50. If you can find bunch of "corrupt" data that can let you tilt the scale and get to getting it right 51 out of 100 (51/49), you can become billionaire just off that. I deal with uncertainties, data, probabilities (including subjective ones) on a daily basis. We make billions of investments based on 15% chance of success and any "corrupt" data that can take that to 16% is worth millions.

But you can keep living in a perfect world with perfect data. Good luck. I wonder how you buy your domains, if you are always looking for 100% accurate info.

 

[Recons.Com]

Svede I think you would agree that if I have been selling domains on your platform Svede.com for two years, you never gave me any sales data. One day you say I am not going to give you all the data but here you go, here are 80 of the 100 sales that took place on Svede.com this year. That has value, it is not complete but still valuable.

Now I agree with you 100% if DNBolt is saying names sold that didn't then that is a major problem.

First, I agree with pretty much everything you have written above.

Now, for the sold being not sold as a major problem:

- Depends. If that is also random, because BB randomly obscured the data or DNBolt method/soft missing data randomly, then I'd still prefer that data to no data. If we knew, for example, that for some reason, BB specifically obscures no kw brands and/or DNBolt software/method somehow is prejudiced against no-kw-brands, then, yes, making conclusion would be a major problem. Somehow, I doubt the latter though.

If someone here would say "data is corrupt, because I have sold personally few non-kw-brands in last month or two" that would also tip the scales towards "it is corrupt" camp...

 

[Recons.Com]

You are equating whether or not kw or non-kw brands sell to whether or not DNBolt's data is corrupt.

BrandBucket is a SMALL subset in even the brandable domaining world. Whether you have domains that sell or don't sell or whether you sell any, makes NO difference on his data's accuracy.

Look, I am not into broad academic discussion with "BB experience" thread.

I am discussing practical and tangible conclusions. For myself, personally, I have decided that no-kw-brands are not going to be more than 1-5% of my total .com portfolio based on the above, until I see data, corrupt or not, telling me otherwise.

And, accordingly, my thanks go to @hookbox and @Dnbolt for spotting out something that could save me a lot of money over the time.

 

[Dnbolt]

@svede please prove your case by presenting some domains that did not sell which is currently on the list? Around January 2016 when it was first published the data was not 99% correct but now that has been cleaned and 6-8 months into this I am pretty confident that accuracy are extremely high. I would be happy if you or anyone can prove me wrong. If you spot great amount of domains which did not sale I would be more than happy to shut it down.

 

[Dnbolt]

Also @svede there are some many things that you said that makes me feel worried about where you got your knowledge from regarding Data Analysis in General. Data Analyst and Software Engineers are two different vast fields. With right knowledge anything can be solved. I have outsourced many private task of mine (not domain related) to some developers who claims it practically impossible to achieve and another developer suggesting that it's possible. If you fail to create a working algorithm that doesn't mean others can't create one. This is why we have researchers who's job is dedicated to make the impossible possible.