Bill Hartzer’s “SEO and the Not Com Revolution” Presentation

[News]

For those of you who have been following developments in the new gTLD space, many of the slides will look familiar. There has been ample discussion had about quite of few of the topics in Bill’s presentation, but there may be some newer topics that you haven’t seen yet...

Credit Bill Hartzer (@bhartzer)

Credit Bill Hartzer (@bhartzer)​

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[deez007]

This is a BRILLIANT presentation done by very reputable well respected and experienced marketer.

I think all the die hard .com fans that have been thrash talking nTLD's should read this.

 

[Sergiy]

This presentation is inspirational. Thank you.
We with my friends prefer gTLD now, it's possible to find a really successful and cool domain names for new business startups. Now you can even find and sign up with same name as gTLD in social networks like Instagram, Twitter etc.

 

[donnied79]

If you have to develop and rely only on SEO/SEM you can have any gTLD in the world. My most profitable websites are on .biz domains.
If you want to pass the "radio test" and don't lose traffic you need to use the .com in USA and the ccTLD in Europe. In Europe .com is acceptable and in most cases .tv too
But at the end of the day this is a domainer forum and at least 95% of new gTLD are a waste of money. It's not being "pro" or "against", is about making money and with dot dentist you'll hardly will.
But many many members here seems "supporters" not "investors".
I've done most of my profit in domaining with .tv, if in 5 years the extension will no longer be profitable I'll have no issue in saying "goodbye .tv", because is not my football team, is just a way to make money, and everyone should try to make profit in the easiest way possible, and no, dot diamond is not a easy way.

 

[deez007]

If you have to develop and rely only on SEO/SEM you can have any gTLD in the world. My most profitable websites are on .biz domains.
If you want to pass the "radio test" and don't lose traffic you need to use the .com in USA and the ccTLD in Europe. In Europe .com is acceptable and in most cases .tv too
But at the end of the day this is a domainer forum and at least 95% of new gTLD are a waste of money. It's not being "pro" or "against", is about making money and with dot dentist you'll hardly will.
But many many members here seems "supporters" not "investors".
I've done most of my profit in domaining with .tv, if in 5 years the extension will no longer be profitable I'll have no issue in saying "goodbye .tv", because is not my football team, is just a way to make money, and everyone should try to make profit in the easiest way possible, and no, dot diamond is not a easy way.

I'm not sure why you say that some of the good new TLD's wont pass the radio test... how is for example.. forextraderonline.com more comprehensible than forextrader.online ?

 

[jmcc]

I'm not sure why you say that some of the good new TLD's wont pass the radio test... how is for example.. forextraderonline.com more comprehensible than forextrader.online ?

People remember .com and now may automatically assume that the .online is an error and add the .com to the phrase.

Regards...jmcc

 

[donnied79]

Simply because 90% of the people will go home and will digit forextraderonline.com and not forextrader.online
And to change this, if it will happen, you'll have to wait many many years. And in my opinion there's a better way to invest money than in something where you're not sure of the result and you have to wait 5 years (if you're lucky) to see some results.
I'm not a .com guy, I think I own 30 .com max but there are so many better and safer opportunities if you want to invest money in mid-term extension. Take .in, is the ccTLD of India and even if prices are increasing you can still buy great 1-keyword for X.XXX easily.

 

[DOMAIN ILLUMINATI]

When people read forextrader.online or hear forextrader dot online they will type in forextrader.online if their eyes / ears are working.

 

[JB Lions]

This is a BRILLIANT presentation done by very reputable well respected and experienced marketer.

I think all the die hard .com fans that have been thrash talking nTLD's should read this.

It's the exact same example used, over and over again. It's been talked about before on this forum. Since you're impressed by it, can you tell me some info.

On slide 23
it's:
Sep 2015 - 22% conversion rate on .com, 35% conversion rate on .diamonds
May 2014 - 52% conversion rate on .com, 36% conversion rate on .diamonds
New gtld converts better than .com in 2015

I want to know, how many clicks were actually used.

Can anybody provide that info. I could be missing it, but can somebody post that for me.

And conversion is downloading some chart?

And the somebody explain why it would drop from 52% to 22%. What happened in that year that would cause that?

 

[deez007]

I totally get your point about it taking some time until the new TLD's start becoming more recognizable. I do however disagree on the "IF" part and also the time frame you estimate. Now I'm not talking about some of the crappy nTLD but mainly with regards to relevant nTLD's ...like .club/.online/.Vip/.IO etc.....

The will become more popular for a number of reasons, for example as I have mentioned on a previous thread on the forum. There is a new breed of entrepreneur, the young tech savy types who don't care much about conforming to the norms. They are already adopting nTLD's. Also for a small to medium sized start up business with limited budgets... lets use the same example.. lets say ForexTrader.com is selling for $50 000 but they could possible get ForexTrader.io for reg fee.
Then spend that same $50k on above the line marketing of their business. This would yield far better return on investment that spending $50k on the .com -

At the rate that technology has been developing over the past few decades, 5 years is a lifetime...I forsee nTld's making a huge impact within the next year even. The more of them that are out in the wild the more recognizable they will become and people will adapt accordingly

 

[JB Lions]

There is a new breed of entrepreneur, the young tech savy types who don't care much about conforming to the norms. They are already adopting nTLD's.

Not startups, unless in the area of 1% -2% is impressive. There are numerous posts talking about the blog that goes thru the extensions being used.

Unless there is more to those slides, it's a bit of a joke to me. It was a joke the first time it was talked about in this forum. It's not really saying anything. Basically, you can use any extension in the world and rank for stuff, that's nothing new.

I need answers to the questions above. Why would conversion on a .com drop from 52% to 22%? I need to know how many clicks that data is based on.

In affiliate marketing, people would get clowned on coming to any conclusions on how a merchant does on let's say 50 clicks, 100 clicks, a few hundred etc.

How can somebody be impressed by conversion rate, without knowing how many clicks were used? That doesn't make sense.

 

[deez007]

It's the exact same example used, over and over again. It's been talked about before on this forum. Since you're impressed by it, can you tell me some info.

On slide 23
it's:
Sep 2015 - 22% conversion rate on .com, 35% conversion rate on .diamonds
May 2014 - 52% conversion rate on .com, 36% conversion rate on .diamonds
New gtld converts better than .com in 2015

I want to know, how many clicks were actually used.

Can anybody provide that info. I could be missing it, but can somebody post that for me.

And conversion is downloading some chart?

And the somebody explain why it would drop from 52% to 22%. What happened in that year that would cause that?

Any data can be manipulated to sway perception if you choose to do so. This is why what is more important than the actual data is the SOURCE of the data. One shoudl always ask themselves, how credible is the source? - In this case it is Bill Hartzer, whom I consider to be very credible. I know many other experience markets who also hold Bill in high regard. I don't think it's probably that he would skewer the data to manipulate people perception. Mainly because he is intelligent enough to know that making a presentation like he did is going to open up the flood gates for thousands of people who don't agree with him to try their best and find fault with his data or his viewpoint.

 

[JB Lions]

Any data can be manipulated to sway perception if you choose to do so. This is why what is more important than the actual data is the SOURCE of the data. One shoudl always ask themselves, how credible is the source? - In this case it is Bill Hartzer, whom I consider to be very credible. I know many other experience markets who also hold Bill in high regard. I don't think it's probably that he would skewer the data to manipulate people perception. Mainly because he is intelligent enough to know that making a presentation like he did is going to open up the flood gates for thousands of people who don't agree with him to try their best and find fault with his data or his viewpoint.

I don't care who they are, you need data. Contact him and see if he'll provide it.

It doesn't make sense for a drop of 52% to 22%. Does he explain that somewhere? I need to know clicks. How many.

10 clicks - 0 sales - 0% conversion
10 clicks - 1 sale - 10% conversion

You impressed by that? Or do you understand you need more clicks to come to a reasonable conclusion?

 

[deez007]

I don't care who they are, you need data. Contact him and see if he'll provide it.

If you going to analyze data then you need to dig a lot deeper than amount of clicks.

 

[JB Lions]

If you going to analyze data that it's you need to dig a lot deeper than amount of clicks.

Exactly, and you're impressed by less than that. Some slides, with little data. Can you give me a reason why a drop of 52% to 22% would occur? I can think of one reason, not enough clicks, see my example above.

He came to this - New gtld converts better than .com in 2015

.diamond stayed pretty much the same
.com dropped 30%?

 

[deez007]

Exactly, and you're impressed by less than that. Some slides, with little data. Can you give me a reason why a drop of 52% to 22% would occur?

Not at all, clearly you missing the point. YOU DON'T CARE who the person is, so you need to analyze the data... I DO care who the person is which is why I am less prone to question the data.

Secondly if I was to start questioning the data, it would be far more indept than asking about clicks...

 

[JB Lions]

Not at all, clearly you missing the point. YOU DON'T CARE who the person is, so you need to analyze the data... I DO care who the person is which is why I am less prone to question the data.

Secondly if I was to start questioning the data, it would be far more indept than asking about clicks...

So you're more prone to being gullible and just accept what people tell you, even when the data doesn't add up. You should always question it, if it doesn't make sense. Don't ever adopt a sheep or groupie type mentality.

Look at what I bolded above, tackle that one. Why would that drop occur? Give me a reason, besides not enough data (clicks, time, whatever) being used.

 

[deez007]

So you're more prone to being gullible and just accept what people tell you, even when the data doesn't add up. Look at what I bolded above, tackle that one.

Again, you seem to be missing the point. I did not and will not accept anything people tell me, I will accept the credibility of the data if the source is credible.

"Can you give me a reason why a drop of 52% to 22% would occur?" What makes you assume there is ONE reason? There could be a plethora of reasons, there are far too many variables.

 

[disaac81]

SEO and GTLD used in the same sentence again

If anyone needs to catch up, it's the writer.

 

[donnied79]

The will become more popular for a number of reasons, for example as I have mentioned on a previous thread on the forum. There is a new breed of entrepreneur, the young tech savy types who don't care much about conforming to the norms. They are already adopting nTLD's. Also for a small to medium sized start up business with limited budgets... lets use the same example.. lets say ForexTrader.com is selling for $50 000 but they could possible get ForexTrader.io for reg fee.
Then spend that same $50k on above the line marketing of their business. This would yield far better return on investment that spending $50k on the .com -

I got your point and I agree. But the fact is that you're a domainer and you must make profit from domaining.
In your example they chose the .io extension because is reg-fee. Where is the benefit for you as a domainer?
Maybe in 10 years, after many and many new companies has adopted the .io or .vip or .whatever you'll have some increase in your portfolio value. But if they've to pay big money for a .io to you they stay with .com or .cctld

 

[deez007]

I got your point and I agree. But the fact is that you're a domainer and you must make profit from domaining.
In your example they chose the .io extension because is reg-fee. Where is the benefit for you as a domainer?
Maybe in 10 years, after many and many new companies has adopted the .io or .vip or .whatever you'll have some increase in your portfolio value. But if they've to pay big money for a .io to you they stay with .com or .cctld

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there will be a bigger uptake of nTLD's by end users prob over the next year or so... so the value of nTLD's will increase. Sure it's still not going to be on the same price points as a .com or anywhere close....but my thinking is that I would be just as happy to sell 10 .io domains at $2500 a pop as I would be selling 1 .com domain at $25 000

 

[DomainVP]

Anyone can go ahead and rank a .whatever for a keyword.

The major point I think we all haven't touched on is that you can also rank a .info, a .biz, or a .net...

Look where that has gone over the past 15 - 20 years.

So if the extension didn't matter for the last 15 years, why would it matter now when ICANN has dumped a multitude of extensions onto the digital landscape.

I cant believe it's 2016 and people are still so focused on these new garbage extensions.

 

[Kate]

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there will be a bigger uptake of nTLD's by end users prob over the next year or so... so the value of nTLD's will increase.

We heard that so many times, but new extensions are no longer new, they are already 3 years old. I think domainers are constantly moving the goalposts because progress is obviously slower than they expected. In the meantime they are not making sales.

For domaining purposes, new extensions are the kiss of death.
Now if you are a developer it's different, you don't care about their resale value. But you still have to pay attention to certain things.

I know some SEOers and they try crazy stuff sometimes.
If new extensions were really good for SEO - everybody would know by know. Of course it's all about contents and links. The domains are usually more important for branding than SEO.
Personally I put a bigger emphasis on branding. I don't rely much on SEO at all, I get business through word of mouth etc. When you are famous enough in your league, you don't need SEO anymore The purpose of SEO is to make yourself known.

Even if the 'uptake' happens, new extensions are not going to become significantly more valuable as a result. Just because there are too many and too much dilution. They are still far behind .biz/.info, that no domainer would consider a success. So I don't know what people expect.
Discussions are interesting, but I am more interested in reality. When I look around me, new extensions are not getting the traction they are supposed to be getting.

 

[enlytend]

I need answers to the questions above. Why would conversion on a .com drop from 52% to 22%? I need to know how many clicks that data is based on.

I'm too lazy to look for it, but you used to be able to download details in a whitepaper at Globerunner.

 

[JB Lions]

I'm too lazy to look for it, but you used to be able to download details in a whitepaper at Globerunner.

Yep, you have to sign up to get it.

This was a complete joke. This time Elliot started a blog post, last time he let Bill post on his site about it. It was taken apart the first time:

100 clicks per campaign or $68. That's the joke. That would get laughed at by most people who have experience with this sort of thing. You can't come to any sort of conclusion with that low of clicks.

http://www.domaininvesting.com/com-versus-new-gtlds-real-world-test-results/