discuss Beating Dropcatch.com ? Possible ?

[Siddharth W]

Can we beat Dropcatch or Other big Backordering Service if we use 100's of DesktopCatcher or Similiar Software on 100's of 10+ Gb's VPS with 1000's Of API, On a Single Domain? What I think that Dropcatch.com definitely not waste that resource of Single Domain. So, What are chance to succeed acc. to you?

 

[D Haynes]

Already DC doing this, I've participated an auction on GD but lost, later i can see that domain transfered to "NB / TurnCommerce" listed for sale on hugedomains(so i believe the last bidder is DC).

Slowly killing the game for the little man. Even average names are out of my price range now due to the big boys taking the prices up.

 

[creataweb]

I think if you have the money to build something similar then yes you can beat them.

 

[BrandSac]

short story: no, you have zero chance.

long story: in january 2018 i decide to build my own dropcatching service (p.s. am high skilled programmer with strong academic background), after spending some time reading about domain life cycle testing programing languages benchmark for this project, i deiced to use golang (programing language created by google in 2009) and after couple months of developing, the essential functionality was ready to start working on full automation, in one month of running i catched 0 domain (p.s. i was targeting only very high quality .com), after analyzing data this is what i found:
Best case scenario my system was slow by 80 milliseconds (the server where my application was hosted is in virginia close to verisign servers because every milliseconds it counts in this game).
They catched approximately 95% of my recommendation list.
I was using verisign public whois, dropcatch have private access to more than 1500 registrar.

 

[bsdomains]

short story: no, you have zero chance.

long story: in january 2018 i decide to build my own dropcatching service (p.s. am high skilled programmer with strong academic background), after spending some time reading about domain life cycle testing programing languages benchmark for this project, i deiced to use golang (programing language created by google in 2009) and after couple months of developing, the essential functionality was ready to start working on full automation, in one month of running i catched 0 domain (p.s. i was targeting only very high quality .com), after analyzing data this is what i found:
Best case scenario my system was slow by 80 milliseconds (the server where my application was hosted is in virginia close to verisign servers because every milliseconds it counts in this game).
They catched approximately 95% of my recommendation list.
I was using verisign public whois, dropcatch have private access to more than 1500 registrar.

How is your experience with "Go lang" and are you using your own icann accreditation?

Public whois is rate limited so can't use for backorders(correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[golan]

long story: in january 2018 i decide to build my own dropcatching service (p.s. am high skilled programmer with strong academic background)

It's good you have hight programming skills; but how many registrars did you own? That's the key question.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

long story: in january 2018 i decide to build my own dropcatching service (p.s. am high skilled programmer with strong academic background)

I think you might need a bit more than one server to provide the service that you wanted to provide.

 

[BrandSac]

How is your experience with "Go lang" and are you using your own icann accreditation?

Public whois is rate limited so can't use for backorders(correct me if I'm wrong)

Go lang is very attractive programing language when's you get the philosophy behind it, and it's very fast i mean very very fast it's the best backend programing language i ever use, for the frontend the standard templating engine have a long way to go, unfortunately am not in the financial zone where i can own icann accreditation (cost $4k year) i did use verisign public whois protocol and like you said there is limitation (max 1000 request per minute after that you get banned but temporary few minutes).

It's good you have hight programming skills; but how many registrars did you own? That's the key question.

As i mentioned earlier dropcatch is dominating only because there +1500 registrars that have direct access to there api.

I think you might need a bit more than one server to provide the service that you wanted to provide.

owning more than one server will certainly augment your capacity to check public whois but because it's not private direct access, you will be always one step behind them, owning a lot of icann accreditation will be your only solution.

 

[davidc1]

Go lang is very attractive programing language when's you get the philosophy behind it, and it's very fast i mean very very fast it's the best backend programing language i ever use, for the frontend the standard templating engine have a long way to go, unfortunately am not in the financial zone where i can own icann accreditation (cost $4k year) i did use verisign public whois protocol and like you said there is limitation (max 1000 request per minute after that you get banned but temporary few minutes).



As i mentioned earlier dropcatch is dominating only because there +1500 registrars that have direct access to there api.



owning more than one server will certainly augment your capacity to check public whois but because it's not private direct access, you will be always one step behind them, owning a lot of icann accreditation will be your only solution.

I dont think services are checking whois, they try to register domains directly and widely.

 

[VaibhavA]

I wont say, "you cant". You wanna try, go for it. Maybe you will come out will something different. Why not, another dropcatch service wont hurt. But heres what i think.

Drop catching is an arms race. The more registrar credentials someone has, the more likely they are to catch a dropping domain. So the big players in the backorder space – companies that specialize in just drop catching – have amassed an army of registrars. Often those aren't registrars that exist to serve customers; rather, they're just extra credentials used to ping the registry in order to attempt to register a domain within milliseconds. More registrar credentials implies faster, more frequent registration attempts. Amassing so many registrar credentials is expensive, and the specialized drop catchers already have captured this market share.

So, if you can come out with a new tech, gr8, we all want it.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

I wont say, "you cant". You wanna try, go for it. Maybe you will come out will something different. Why not, another dropcatch service wont hurt. But heres what i think.

Drop catching is an arms race. The more registrar credentials someone has, the more likely they are to catch a dropping domain. So the big players in the backorder space – companies that specialize in just drop catching – have amassed an army of registrars. Often those aren't registrars that exist to serve customers; rather, they're just extra credentials used to ping the registry in order to attempt to register a domain within milliseconds. More registrar credentials implies faster, more frequent registration attempts. Amassing so many registrar credentials is expensive, and the specialized drop catchers already have captured this market share.

So, if you can come out with a new tech, gr8, we all want it.

Is it really the registrars that choose when a domain is "let go"? That sounds like the job of the registry to me. Obviously it's a different process for after market domains, they are simply made available for auction to the drop catching services they don't actually "drop".

 

[Kate]

I was using verisign public whois, dropcatch have private access to more than 1500 registrar.

Their whois server is not real-time, it may be off by 5 minutes at least, you just don't stand a chance working like this. Snap speed is measured in milliseconds.

I dont think services are checking whois, they try to register domains directly and widely.

Indeed, they use the EPP protocol:
check domain and if available: register domain.

Is it really the registrars that choose when a domain is "let go"? That sounds like the job of the registry to me.

Indeed. When the domain goes to redemption status it is beyond the control of the registrar. It can still be redeemed though but at a price.

 

[werty]

It's cheaper to use snapnames $79 level and dropcatch $59 level than the funding you will require to just compete with dropcatch and snapnames. Not worth it imo. Look at how Pheenix lost in the game even with xxx registrars....

 

[Dave]

Look at how Pheenix lost in the game even with xxx registrars....

I have a sneaky suspicion they lost because of bad development of their catching software.

 

[davidc1]

I have a sneaky suspicion they lost because of bad development of their catching software.

some customers told they ve been screwed by them. (fake bids)

 

[werty]

Yeah they definitely were under performing in regards to the amount of registrars they had. That's another very big expense for dropcatching.. Coding.. And I guess it never ends as it requires tweaking further on.

 

[backordr]

Can we beat Dropcatch or Other big Backordering Service if we use 100's of DesktopCatcher or Similiar Software on 100's of 10+ Gb's VPS with 1000's Of API, On a Single Domain? What I think that Dropcatch.com definitely not waste that resource of Single Domain. So, What are chance to succeed acc. to you?

I’d like to chime in here to clear some things up for everyone.

Dropcatch is a domain registrar, and has many registrars in their arsenal. This CAN help them out, but isn't necessarily needed for what they’re doing.

Domain registries offer communications with registrars over the EPP protocol (see RFC 5730,31). Domain names drop at seemingly random times, but it’s a first come first serve basis.

Their arsenal of registrars kinda helps by essentially DDOSing the registries with commands to create the dropped domain name, but any technical person with an understanding of networking can tell you that this is overkill, and can be achieved at the same level with much less resources if you understand the network protocol.

What Dropcatch has done is similar to startup companies who don’t know how to write code at scale, and simply add more servers to deal with traffic. While it works, it’s crazy expensive and leads to a lot of overhead to manage. Think HFT (high frequency trading) for domain names. High concurrency and low latency beat everything else.

So, TLDR, it’s absolutely possible to beat dropcatch.com IF you’re a domain registrar and understand the EPP protocol and also network engineering. You will not beat them using a third party api through another registrar that isn’t designed for drop catching.

 

[werty]

.com has a drop order provided by the registry and it's not random as you have mentioned. It won't happen with your current setup...... Perhaps you just know about cc tlds? You really think companies like dropcatch and snapnames invest millions of dollars instead of considering network engineering? LOL . Try beating them.... Don't get me wrong; I don't like them at all.

 

[backordr]

.com has a drop order provided by the registry and it's not random as you have mentioned. It won't happen with your current setup...... Perhaps you just know about cc tlds? You really think companies like dropcatch and snapnames invest millions of dollars instead of considering network engineering? LOL . Try beating them.... Don't get me wrong; I don't like them at all.

I never definitively admitted domain names drop at random times. I know .com isn’t random. I also know that the protocol to create domain records doesn’t care how many requests were made. If the request comes in at a time after the domain drops, that request is respected.

Speaking from personal experience, you’d be surprised what goes on behind the scenes at large companies. Assuming they have all their ducks in a row and are the best of the best is a poor assumption at best. They absolutely can be beat, and it can absolutely be done in an intelligent fashion, rather than a simple brute force approach.

 

[Muhaysen]

No they are a strong snipers

 

[domainer111]

Does anyone know what the going rate is for an off-the-shelf registrar and how to get one?

 

[Ostrados]

The question is why beat them and how this will benefit domainers community? if someone was able to beat them and got dropped domains privately it will not be fair game for others.. at least drop catching venues play fair game and put catched domains into auction if there is more than 1 bidder.

New drop catching service is always welcomed "if" it is public service not private, competition is always a good thing for customers and will lower prices.

 

[Hypersot]

...competition is always a good thing for customers and will lower prices.

Competition will lower prices for customers only for customers to raise the prices back even higher than what they were before

I agree with you though, not good for just one entity to get everything.

 

[Ostrados]

Competition will lower prices for customers only for customers to raise the prices back even higher than what they were before

I agree with you though, not good for just one entity to get everything.

Actually more drop catching services will guarantee reduction of prices for both:

1. Drop Catching feeds: more service providers will mean new ones will offer the service at lower fees
2. Auction Bids: more drop catching services will reduce the pressure in auctions in general, because users will be spread among different venues, and thus density of bidders per venue will be less.

 

[Hypersot]

Actually more drop catching services will guarantee reduction of prices for both:

1. Drop Catching feeds: more service providers will mean new ones will offer the service at lower fees
2. Auction Bids: more drop catching services will reduce the pressure in auctions in general, because users will be spread among different venues, and thus density of bidders per venue will be less.

You know very well that what you mention is only in theory; in practice we have two houses that catch everything with one of them being -potentially- so cheap (~$10) that no-one else can compete... but ofc the 'customers' will show up and skyrocket the price.

While I wouldn't like just one entity getting everything, I wouldn't mind if that entity was me :D

 

[Ostrados]

While I wouldn't like just one entity getting everything, I wouldn't mind if that entity was me :D

If you made a successful private drop catching system, then you will find it more profitable to open it for public auctions (to compensate the costs) than keeping the domains for yourself.. so you will end up creating another Namejet.