Atom / Atom.com - Marketplace (formerly Squadhelp)

[JudgeMind]

Hey Folks,

I've just started using squadhelp.com to list some of my brandable. So far I have 76 domains listed, there is no fee to list. I've had some decent action so far in the way of interested buyers but no sales as of yet. I've only been with them for 1 week now.

A bit of a summary review of SquadHelp:

PROS

• No Listing fee
• No Logo design fee
• Ability to submit your names to end users holding naming contests
• Ability to chat directly or send a message directly to end users.
• Stats of your marketplace domains are shown in the marketplace dashboard.
• Their customer service and support has been great, 24hr a day chat.
• Ability to increase or decrease the list price of your domains or to show a discount. You can decrease or increase the price yourself by $200. If you want to lower more, you can contact support.
• End users can shortlist your domains before they make a decision on which they want to purchase. The number of shortlists is shown in you marketplace dashboard.
• When you submit your names you get to set the price you wish to get. Because their commissions are high I recommend listing at a higher price to offset the commission costs.
• Their landing pages are fairly basic but they work. Because the marketplace is fairly new, I'm sure we will see style improvements in the future.
• One thing I really like is they accept multiple extensions. I have listed .co and .io along with .com
• Each seller gets a direct link to their marketplace portfolio, HERES MY PORTFOLIO. It is handy if your trying to p[promote your portfolio through social media.
• I like that their marketplace doesn't have tens of thousands domain listings like BB. They are fairly strict on the domains they accept to list and so this helps keep the number of domains in the marketplace down and gets your listings more exposure.

CONS

• Their commissions are very high, depending on the domain name they are usually between 30% and 35%. However, there are no listing fees, no logo design fees, so in the end their commission is very similar to brand buckets.
• Their logos are not top quality, in fact I requested to have some of my logos remade.
• I think they have a big backlog of logos to design, the wait time for logo design has been around 1 week, but your names are still listed while the logos are being designed.
• After your names are accepted you need to agree to their commission rate, at this point you also need to apply your own keywords, descriptions etc. I found this was very time consuming.

 

[pelez]

i am curious with tag "Strong Buyer Interest ""potential buyers viewed or shortlisted this domain recently"

How accurate of this?

 

[Atom.com]

Hi,

Try to add the option for a simple, clean for sale landing page (optional image)

Also without domain search bar at top or optional

Thanks

Thanks for the feedback. We are working on a major UX refresh of our landing pages which will be live in the next few weeks. These options will be rolled out to WLM, Standard SH Landers as well as Premium Listings over the coming weeks.

 

[Atom.com]

Thanks for the update. It would also be good to be able to purchase wholesale listings in bulk.

Thanks for the suggestion. By this, do you mean the ability to list and purchase multiple wholesale domains as a bundle?

Bundles can sometimes be tricky since it may reduce the buyer pool. Selling them individually to different wholesale buyers may allow sellers to maximize their returns. However I can see how it could make the purchase process more efficient so I will certainly pass this feedback along to our product team

 

[Atom.com]

@GrantP please consider these feature suggestions, these are my biggest issues with Squadhelp:

- There is no system at all to handle the EU VAT. Other marketplaces get this right, but unfortunately SH doesn't handle this at all. This is a big problem for EU sellers who are VAT registered. Because if the seller is VAT registered, and let's say the domain price is $2499, then the VAT registered seller must sell this domain for $2499 + VAT. The VAT rate might be zero or more, depending on the buyer's billing address. Whether VAT is payable by the buyer or not, it depends on multiple things: 1) what is the billing address of the buyer, 2) if the buyer is from the EU, then does the buyer have a valid EU VAT number?

You can only properly handle the EU VAT situation by asking for and validating EU VAT numbers on the checkout page before the payment and then you should dynamically calculate the VAT rate based on the buyer's billing address. See for example on BrandBucket, BrandPa or GoDaddy how it works. Even US-based businesses must collect and pay VAT! If you don't want to pay VAT on behalf of the sellers, then please still allow the EU sellers to calculate and collect the VAT upon checkout, so that then the seller can collect and pay the extra VAT on top of the price. It is very important for EU sellers, please implement it.

- I think you don't offer a full escrow service, since when I sold domains, I had to unlock the domain and send the auth code directly to the buyer. Or push the domain directly to the buyer's account. But if the buyer is fraudulent then this might lead to fraud. This is not the safest method to handle the transaction. Please create escrow accounts at each domain name registrar, and then first all sellers should push or transfer the sold domain directly to the Squadhelp escrow account (not directly to the buyer!), and then Squadhelp should push the domain from the SH escrow account to the buyer's account. This will eliminate any fraud attempts. I think this is actually a critical issue which should be fixed as soon as possible.

Thanks for the feedback. I have shared this with our product team.

Regarding the Escrow transactions, we don't ask the sellers to push the domain directly to buyer's account. In that scenario, we always ask the seller to push to a SH account first and then we push it to buyer. However Auth code based transfers can be a bit more complex due to the possibility of 60 day locks. However we will look into further streamlining the process.

 

[Atom.com]

This is probably why

Currently we have about 151,900 listings in the premium section. . There appears to be a display glitch in the front-end search page which can sometimes show an incorrect count after multiple searches , and our team is looking into it .

We have now added the exact count in the Marketplace Dashboard section, so sellers can see the total count of active premium listings at any time

 

[Atom.com]

Hi @Grant, nice to have you back on the platform! While I do understand your approach of letting sellers discuss Squadhelp freely without the interference of SH staff, your informative input and valuable insights are highly appreciated and very useful. So thank you for that.

Now I'd love to share an idea. I thought that the next step in the further development of Squadhelp could be premade logo marketplace.

Here are some examples of already existing premade logo marketplaces:

1. https://scalebranding.com/
2. https://www.logoground.com/
3. www.logomood.com

Why do I think it would work?

1. You already have a large traffic consisting of people who are in a need of branding. They are potential buyers of premade logos. Even those who came to Squadhelp for the name marketplace but did not purchase a domain name might end up buying a premade logo. Or they might end up buying both, a domain name and a premade logo if they didn't like the one that came with the name.
2. You wouldn’t have to design and code it from scratch because you can adapt your domain marketplace.
3. You already have a community of strong logo designers. Most of them have amazing unused logo designs from their previous projects or contests. Over the years there have been so many logo contests on SH. Since there can only be one winner, a lot of great and versatile logo designs were unused. They could be sold through the logo marketplace.
4. When your customers are in a need of a name, they have several options: use the marketplace, launch a contest, use both options. If they need a logo they only have one option - a contest. But what if they don't have time for that, or don't want to go through the hassle, or don't want to risk their money, or do not like the idea of a contest etc. Some CHs find contests overwhelming. Logo marketplace could be a great option for them once they are done with their naming contest.
5. Domain name marketplace and logo marketplace could complement each other. For example, next to each domain name in the marketplace, you could display several relevant logos from the logo marketplace and offer a bundle deal domain name + logo. And vise versa, next to every logo in the logo marketplace you could offer several relevant domain names for sale and offer a bundle deal logo + domain name.
6. In the future, after purchasing a logo, the customer could further work with the same designer through your platform to get business cards, letterheads, etc. (if you will choose to implement that) and Squadhelo could earn commissions from each transaction/project.
7. I think this would be a great way to grow and expand Squadhelp.

Thank you for considering

Thanks for sharing the idea. I will certainly pass it along to our product team. However, we currently have a fairly extensive roadmap around adding new features, as well as several UX updates so it is unlikely we would expand into new offerings in the near future

 

[Embrand]

Thanks for the suggestion. By this, do you mean the ability to list and purchase multiple wholesale domains as a bundle?

Bundles can sometimes be tricky since it may reduce the buyer pool. Selling them individually to different wholesale buyers may allow sellers to maximize their returns. However I can see how it could make the purchase process more efficient so I will certainly pass this feedback along to our product team

No, I just meant being able to add several domains to a cart and purchase them all in one transaction. But it is not a big issue. Thanks.

 

[CS85]

Hi @GrantP

Now that GoDaddy/Afternic and Dan are metaphorically in bed together, will SquadHelp in the future allow us to list our names at Dan (with an 8-10% price increase as per AN?)

 

[Charybdis]

This is probably why

No that number is not accurate. Login to your account and visit the dashboard, you will see the exact number of live premium domains there.

Sometimes you will compete against the standard listings, but it is rare. If there are not enough premium results, then SH will display standard listings below the premium listings.

 

[Charybdis]

Regarding the Escrow transactions, we don't ask the sellers to push the domain directly to buyer's account. In that scenario, we always ask the seller to push to a SH account first and then we push it to buyer. However Auth code based transfers can be a bit more complex due to the possibility of 60 day locks. However we will look into further streamlining the process.

@GrantP Yes so my issue is that when I sold premium domains, in most cases I had to unlock the domain and enter the auth code on the transfer page on Squadhelp.

So what happens with this auth code then? Will the buyer take that auth code and start the domain transfer directly to the buyer's domain registrar? If so, that would be a problem. What if the buyer is fraudulent, takes the auth code and acquire the domain. Then the fraudulent buyer would keep saying that the domain is still in the seller's hands. You will see that the domain has been recently transferred away to another registrar, ok. But the fraudulent buyer would say that the seller had used his/her own auth code to transfer the domain into another domain name registrar, but the domain owner is still the seller, not the buyer.

In theory the seller could unlock the domain and upload the valid auth code to SH, but then the seller could use that same auth code to immediately transfer the domain into another registrar, so the buyer is right, it might happen in theory. If the domain is protected by whois privacy, then you cannot monitor who the real owner of the domain is.

Now in this scenario, how will you decide who is fraudulent: the buyer or the seller?

You might say that this has never happened before, ok. But it doesn't mean that the process would be secure. You should be prepared for the worst-case scenario.

The only solution is that the buyer must not see the auth code, only SH. Then SH should take the auth code and transfer the domain into the SH escrow account, and then push the domain from the SH escrow account to the buyer's account, within the same registrar. Now SH will have proof that the buyer indeed received the domain.

Of in case of a push (if the buyer prefers the same, current registrar), the seller should push the domain into the SH escrow account, then SH should push the domain from the SH escrow account to the buyer.

Regarding the VAT issue, yes it is a big problem, the other major platforms implemented the VAT handling correctly, but this piece is missing on SH, please implement the VAT calculation and collection on the checkout page, it would be a big help for EU sellers (but even US-based sellers must charge EU VAT in some cases...). For example a lot of US-based domain registrars have an EU VAT number starting with the "EU" letters, and they calculate, collect and pay the EU VAT to the EU, in some cases even US-based companies or entities must pay the EU VAT. If SH doesn't want to handle this, I understand, but then please at least give me the ability to indicate that I am VAT-registered so that the SH checkout page would calculate and collect the VAT in case of my domains. So then I would receive the domain price + VAT amount, then I could pay this VAT in my home country.

Currently in some cases I must pay the VAT out my own pocket. But I would like to charge extra VAT on top of the price, if the buyer is from the EU without a valid EU VAT number. The VAT rate might be 20-27%, so it is a big deal. Imagine the situation when I have to pay the 27% VAT from the total price of the domain... In this case the price should have been the selling price + 27% VAT, and not the selling price including the 27% VAT... This is a big difference.

Let's say the price is $2000 and I must pay 27% VAT since the buyer is from the EU without a valid EU VAT number (you should validate the EU VAT number on the checkout page, if the buyer is from the EU). Currently I cannot say that the price is $2000 + 27% VAT. I have to pay that 27% VAT from the $2000, so I must pay 2000-2000/1.27 = $425.2 VAT from this total $2000 price, plus the SH commission...

But the price should have been $2000 + VAT, so in this case 2000*1.27 = $2540.
Of course if the price is $2000 + VAT, then in some cases the VAT rate will be zero, but in some cases the VAT rate might be as high as 27%!

So this is my issue with the current VAT handling on SH. Thanks!

 

[Embrand]

@GrantP Yes so my issue is that when I sold premium domains, in most cases I had to unlock the domain and enter the auth code on the transfer page on Squadhelp.

So what happens with this auth code then? Will the buyer take that auth code and start the domain transfer directly to the buyer's domain registrar? If so, that would be a problem. What if the buyer is fraudulent, takes the auth code and acquire the domain. Then the fraudulent buyer would keep saying that the domain is still in the seller's hands. You will see that the domain has been recently transferred away to another registrar, ok. But the fraudulent buyer would say that the seller had used his/her own auth code to transfer the domain into another domain name registrar, but the domain owner is still the seller, not the buyer.

In theory the seller could unlock the domain and upload the valid auth code to SH, but then the seller could use that same auth code to immediately transfer the domain into another registrar, so the buyer is right, it might happen in theory. If the domain is protected by whois privacy, then you cannot monitor who the real owner of the domain is.

Now in this scenario, how will you decide who is fraudulent: the buyer or the seller?

You might say that this has never happened before, ok. But it doesn't mean that the process would be secure. You should be prepared for the worst-case scenario.

The only solution is that the buyer must not see the auth code, only SH. Then SH should take the auth code and transfer the domain into the SH escrow account, and then push the domain from the SH escrow account to the buyer's account, within the same registrar. Now SH will have proof that the buyer indeed received the domain.

Of in case of a push (if the buyer prefers the same, current registrar), the seller should push the domain into the SH escrow account, then SH should push the domain from the SH escrow account to the buyer.

Regarding the VAT issue, yes it is a big problem, the other major platforms implemented the VAT handling correctly, but this piece is missing on SH, please implement the VAT calculation and collection on the checkout page, it would be a big help for EU sellers (but even US-based sellers must charge EU VAT in some cases...). For example a lot of US-based domain registrars have an EU VAT number starting with the "EU" letters, and they calculate, collect and pay the EU VAT to the EU, in some cases even US-based companies or entities must pay the EU VAT. If SH doesn't want to handle this, I understand, but then please at least give me the ability to indicate that I am VAT-registered so that the SH checkout page would calculate and collect the VAT in case of my domains. So then I would receive the domain price + VAT amount, then I could pay this VAT in my home country.

Currently in some cases I must pay the VAT out my own pocket. But I would like to charge extra VAT on top of the price, if the buyer is from the EU without a valid EU VAT number. The VAT rate might be 20-27%, so it is a big deal. Imagine the situation when I have to pay the 27% VAT from the total price of the domain... In this case the price should have been the selling price + 27% VAT, and not the selling price including the 27% VAT... This is a big difference.

Let's say the price is $2000 and I must pay 27% VAT since the buyer is from the EU without a valid EU VAT number (you should validate the EU VAT number on the checkout page, if the buyer is from the EU). Currently I cannot say that the price is $2000 + 27% VAT. I have to pay that 27% VAT from the $2000, so I must pay 2000-2000/1.27 = $425.2 VAT from this total $2000 price, plus the SH commission...

But the price should have been $2000 + VAT, so in this case 2000*1.27 = $2540.
Of course if the price is $2000 + VAT, then in some cases the VAT rate will be zero, but in some cases the VAT rate might be as high as 27%!

So this is my issue with the current VAT handling on SH. Thanks!

Aren't DAN the only ones that calculate VAT? But as an EU seller, I agree it should be implemented where possible.

By the way, when I sell a domain at SH, I treat it VAT-wise as a sale to them - that is, a company in the US.

 

[Charybdis]

Aren't DAN the only ones that calculate VAT? But as an EU seller, I agree it should be implemented where possible.

I see that the VAT calculation and collection works correctly on these marketplaces:

Dan
BrandPa
BrandBucket
GoDaddy
etc.

You can try it, try to buy a domain and enter an EU country as your billing country, you will see that then you need to enter a valid EU VAT number, or else they will charge extra VAT on top of the price.

 

[Embrand]

I see that the VAT calculation and collection works correctly on these marketplaces:

Dan
BrandPa
BrandBucket
GoDaddy
etc.

You can try it, try to buy a domain and enter an EU country as your billing country, you will see that then you need to enter a valid EU VAT number, or else they will charge extra VAT on top of the price.

Okay. I thought you meant as a seller. I only get a sales overview that includes VAT (if applicable) when I sell a name at DAN

 

[Charybdis]

Okay. I thought you meant as a seller. I only get a sales overview that includes VAT (if applicable) when I sell a name at DAN

The important thing is that someone has to pay the VAT if applicable, either the marketplace or you as the seller. If no one pays the VAT when VAT was applicable, that's a problem. SH states in their terms of service that they are only a venue, and you contract directly as a seller with the buyers, and you are responsible for paying your own taxes. So in this case you, as the seller, must calculate and pay the VAT if applicable.

And here comes the problem, the SH checkout page doesn't support the VAT calculation and charging at all. So you need to pay the VAT out of your own pocket if applicable.

But this is just my opinion, not a legal advice, consult a tax professional

 

[Charybdis]

By the way, when I sell a domain at SH, I treat it VAT-wise as a sale to them - that is, a company in the US.

My tax professional told me otherwise. I think my customer is the buyer, not SH. SH is jut a marketplace, not my customer.

https://www.squadhelp.com/Terms&Conditions

2. Legal relationships and obligation of parties


2.1 Squadhelp Provides a Venue


The Service is an online venue where


a) Buyers post projects for creative services, Members submit actual works in response to the Buyer's requirements, and Buyers choose the entry(ies) they like. In providing the Service, we do not source (except for us, where this is expressly stated in the project) or deliver projects or entries.


b) Buyers purchase Domain names listed for sale by a Seller


2.2 Contracts Between Buyers and Creatives


By registering as a member, you acknowledge and agree that you contract directly with other members to buy or sell services or domain names. Creatives are not required to participate in the project posted by the Buyer.

Read that part "you contract directly with other members to buy or sell services or domain names".

And:

2.3 Taxes and Reporting


Each Member is solely responsible for satisfying all income tax, payroll tax, payroll withholding, sales and use tax, governmental reporting and other legal requirements under applicable law, including without limitation those applicable to the purchase and sale of services provided by Creatives, from and by independent contractors.

I think SH should clarify this, namely who is responsible for paying the VAT. If the seller is responsible then please provide tools for that, so the checkout page should support the dynamic VAT number handling, VAT calculation and VAT charging.

(Again, not a legal advice )

 

[Embrand]

My tax professional told me otherwise. I think my customer is the buyer, not SH. SH is jut a marketplace, not my customer.

https://www.squadhelp.com/Terms&Conditions



Read that part "you contract directly with other members to buy or sell services or domain names".

And:



I think SH should clarify this, namely who is responsible for paying the VAT. If the seller is responsible then please provide tools for that, so the checkout page should support the dynamic VAT number handling, VAT calculation and VAT charging.

(Again, not a legal advice )

Thanks. I have to admit I was not aware of that. In that case, we as sellers need to be informed about the VAT status of the buyer.

Actually, this whole VAT issue is quite a headache...

 

[Alex270]

I've just received an e-mail from Squadhelp that I've sold a domain. I'm happy I'll post the domain in the "report completed domain name sales" section of the forum, when I'll get the money.

 

[pelez]

I've just received an e-mail from Squadhelp that I've sold a domain. I'm happy I'll post the domain in the "report completed domain name sales" section of the forum, when I'll get the money.

How long you put there?

 

[Charybdis]

I've just received an e-mail from Squadhelp that I've sold a domain. I'm happy I'll post the domain in the "report completed domain name sales" section of the forum, when I'll get the money.

Congratulations, don't forget to remove the domain from Afternic (if you listed it on Afternic before).

 

[Alex270]

How long you put there?

I've acquired it on Squadhelp Wholesale Marketplace on 25 October 2021, so I had this domain for less than a year before I've sold it.