Dan.com

debate Are domainers unknowingly destroying domaining!?

NameSilo

artstar

Top Contributor
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Domaining from my research within the last 10 years has revealed that the influx of new domainers has seemingly destroyed domain values.

I say this because it seems they are selling domains at far lower prices than they should which leads to destroying values on other domains when this practice is done.

For example look at namebio 3d domain sales

The sales prices IMO are far below what they might have been even 2 years ago

I think too many newbie flippa domainers are flipping domains in quantity to get a fast buck but they were unwittingly destroying domain valued across the board by performing such sales practices!

Is it just me or do you see the same trend?

:P
 
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artstar

Top Contributor
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Some people rather make a quick dime instead of a slooooow quarter...:-,
Well for sure but its affecting your domain values! Do u even care?


The
 

Canadian

new gTLD enthusiastEstablished Member
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Well for sure but its affecting your domain values! Do u even care?
Off-course I care... but what am I gonna do about it ? if domainers are willing to take less for their domains... that's their decision.
 

artstar

Top Contributor
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Well that's the crux of the problem isn't it? What does one do so u are not getting shafted even more?

It seems domains has been hijacked once again by the flippers who will destroy your portfolio value for their quick buck and what will happen then?

Within time the majority of domains will be worth squat doesn't matter what TLD it will be in
So the flippers will benefit while the rest of domainers who hang on to their precious gems supposed that is, goes the way of mobi.

Am I wrong?? Am I just jaded? O.o
 

artstar

Top Contributor
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Off-course I care... but what am I gonna do about it ? if domainers are willing to take less for their domains... that's their decision.
But that is the issue. They take less for their domains drives your domains values down,simple but as u say what does one do to battle the flippers destroying domain values?
Some people rather make a quick dime instead of a slooooow quarter...:-,

Well that's the crux of the problem isn't it? What does one do so u are not getting shafted even more?

It seems domains has been hijacked once again by the flippers who will destroy your portfolio value for their quick buck and what will happen then?

Within time the majority of domains will be worth squat doesn't matter what TLD it will be in
So the flippers will benefit while the rest of domainers who hang on to their precious gems supposed that is, goes the way of mobi.

Am I wrong?? Am I just jaded? O.o
 

johname

Planet FutbolTop Contributor
Impact
52,109
For example look at namebio 3d domain sales

The sales prices IMO are far below what they might have been even 2 years ago


3D also had a domainer fad component to it, which has gone down. So you need another barometer
 

artstar

Top Contributor
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3D also had a domainer fad component to it, which has gone down. So you need another barometer
Fad? Really so when does a niche stop being a fad?

2015 3d sales doesnt look like a fad man!
 

artstar

Top Contributor
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3D also had a domainer fad component to it, which has gone down. So you need another barometer
So what u r alluding to is that my perception of domain values being affected by flippers is bogus?
 

johname

Planet FutbolTop Contributor
Impact
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I am not alluding, I am stating a fact that there was a big 3D fad in domaining and not so hot now.

So don't base on just 3D domains (that how the post reads)

\/ I am referring to the peak enthusiasm that domainers were grabbing everything 3d that was left. It was actually comical.

You are the one that talking value being destroyed by domainers not me. I am simple stating that you need to look at other sales not just 3D sales. Good Luck!
 
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artstar

Top Contributor
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Facts are facts! Is 3d a fad that's faded?

3d is an example I couldn't list all domains man!

You seem content that domains values are being destroyed by flippers !
 
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You seem content that domains values are being destroyed by flippers !

Nothing new is happening. Some people quick flip, some hold for years for the right deal and everything in between. Typical stuff. If you see domains you think are selling for less than they're worth, buy them. I think you may be feeling you're not getting the number of sales or sale prices you want, so you're putting it on this. You mention 3d sales and you have 3d names in your sig.

You can check the last 3 years, top reported sales, look at #100 each year

2015 - $60,000, this could go up since we have 4 months left and the last quarter is usually good for sales
2014 - $64,000
2013 - $55,000

So not seeing any destruction of sales, plenty of people are doing just fine.
 
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baseballworld

Restricted (Market)
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3D also had a domainer fad component to it, which has gone down. So you need another barometer
I agree remember 3d replaced 2d. As rd will come or something else.
 

equity78

Top Member
TheDomains Staff
TLDInvestors.com
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First off if like JB said if people think something is so cheap, buy them, it has been my experience that just never seems to happen, from the domains are being sold too cheap crowd.

BuyDomains has been selling domains cheap for years.

The 3-D fad is dying — and this film critic couldn't be happier ...
nypost.com/.../the-3-d-fad-is-dying-and-this-film-critic-c...
New York Post
Mar 18, 2015 - Now it appears the audience is catching up with us: The 3-D fad is dying, and I couldn't be happier if you told me Kevin Hart was retiring.

The naysayers were right, another 3D fad has come and gone. - Off ...
www.giantbomb.com/.../the-naysayers-were-right-another-3...
Giant Bomb
Another embarrassing fad has left us yet again, it seems the entertainment industry wants to shove 3D at consumers every 30 years or so, and every tim.

Was 3D Printing Just a Passing Fad? | TIME
time.com/3916323/3d-printer-stocks/
Time
Jun 10, 2015 - Take nanotech, an investor fad a decade ago that faded because it wasn't startups that ... Along with the buzz, stocks of 3D printers caught fire.
 

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equity78

Top Member
TheDomains Staff
TLDInvestors.com
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Good to hear its all in my mind so I'm simply jaded then!

Moving on then,,.....

:PO.o:xf.confused:

No it's not jaded it is frustration that everyone goes through from time to time. Mike Berkens who gets max value 99.9 % of the time one time said to me that BuyDomains was hurting domain valuations by selling too cheap.

The flipside when you got 1million domain names you need volume and if your customer is someone looking for a $2,500 name you sell them a $2,500 name rather than they go elsewhere.

Everyone is not from a first world country, someone may be somewhere where a $1,000 is a major sale that betters their life in a big way.
 
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Technology related domain names are mostly like that, when a technology comes in or makes some starting waves domainers jump on the tail. If for instance in my case, I'm a close watcher in VR related names and there was a great sale happened on the VR front vrxxx.com which sold for 10,000$, so after that sale there has been a surge in the registrations and many of us have taken the possible names in VR. We will hold on to it for some time maybe some 2-3 years and we may drop that off, since in the future after 3 years we find out that there is not much of end user adaptation of the VR technology. So after 3 years we might sell it for very low price or just drop it off.

Your second opinion might be true that many names are sold cheap, if that is the case you can buy them, new members in any business is good since the markets expands, people who think that domaining is gambling / lottery will shed off from the business model when they find that it's not quick money and proper research, luck and timing is important.

Its your own business you are the ultimate decision maker about how you sell. There are many smart guys here who buy a name for 10$ and sell the same for 20$ in a day's time, while there are semi experts who holds on for sometime and sell the same name for 100$ , and then there are gurus who holds on for years the same name and sell for million dollars. Which type you need to be is totally your choice, everything has its advantages and disadvantages.
 

disaac81

Top Contributor
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I see the problem from the other end, look at auction prices on GD or SEDO where people are asking for 5 figures for real crap names with hyphens, numbers, complete and utter turd names. They are so bad that it is laughable and the seller probably has issues more so than a 0 understanding of value in a name \ brand.

But I agree on the other side, great names are worth big bucks, no doubt.
 

ResoluteDomains

Resolute DomainsTop Contributor
Impact
4,376
Domaining from my research within the last 10 years has revealed that the influx of new domainers has seemingly destroyed domain values.

I say this because it seems they are selling domains at far lower prices than they should which leads to destroying values on other domains when this practice is done.

For example look at namebio 3d domain sales

The sales prices IMO are far below what they might have been even 2 years ago

I think too many newbie flippa domainers are flipping domains in quantity to get a fast buck but they were unwittingly destroying domain valued across the board by performing such sales practices!

Is it just me or do you see the same trend?

:P

I think that will always be there - low $ flips where others feel the value is much greater...

If you feel that domain "a" was flipped for a very low price - lower than the owner should have gotten, then it would stand to reason that you could still make $ from that domain - no?
 

NameFit

NameFit.com - Right Name, Right PriceEstablished Member
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I would add, these are the principles of free market. Even though every market goes through ups and downs, this market is very very stable because of its nature. Even though every name is unique - but every name has 100's of alternatives. People who are registering the names today and selling those names at $20-$100 profit, who do you think they are selling to? resellers only - and they are not end users. What these buyers are doing - reselling or hope to resell. It is up to them whether they want to sell at $25-$50 profit now or $100 - $200 profit later. It is all recycling. Also if you register a name today, how do you compare that to quality of the name registered more than 5 years ago. Drastically different. Long term sellers are in for long haul. They have a strategy and built their 'portfolio' (sure the flippers can also call theirs 'portfolio'). Long term buyers have a plan, and they have a strategy that is proven over years and they do not get wavered, they do not deviate from their principles (because there is no need to).

Regarding the names that are 'hip' - trust me, long term buyers do not normally go by what is 'hot' or 'will be the future'. Warren Buffet does not even invest in technology companies. I remember he talking about Facebook IPO saying that 'I am not sure in 10-15 years these companies will be there'.

Long term is a different strategy that works for some while not for (most) others. Just like in stock market, there are daily traders and there are long term investors.
 

ckj11

Established Member
Impact
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People are just buying a combination of letters, numbers and whatever else is accepted. If I could buy a domain for £10 and sell quick for £50-100 then thats 400-900% profit. That to me is easy money, much easier than sitting with crossed fingers hoping for big bucks for years upon years.
 

Kate

Domainosaurus RexTop Contributor
Impact
21,724
I disagree with the main idea (flippers killing the market).

As wisely said above flipping is a form of recycling. Instead of worrying about flippers you should focus on acquiring quality merchandise to sell to end users. That is, if you want to be a long term seller. Besides, flippers are not always selling stuff that is comparable in quality. They are not necessarily your competitors.

However, the domainer to domainer market has crashed but that was years ago and for different reasons. Not because of flippers.

The bottom line is, if you are not doing well you must question your practice. Rick Schwarz says that every second you are minding somebody else's business, you are ignoring yours. I agree with this.
 
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IMO there is far more supply of aftermarket domains than end user demand. Thus, even .COM registration growth has been slowing recent years. While some of the new TLDs in real estate and geos sound interesting, there is no real need for hundreds of new TLDs. How many of those seven million nTLD registrations are held by investors? Perhaps 95-99%%. How many of the remaining 6.x million will be acquired in the aftermarket by end users over the next several years? Maybe 1% annually max. So if you are paying premium renewals and see less than 1% turnover in a nTLD portfolio you are screwed. Even 1% turnover in a .COM portfolio with $10 renewals results in negative cash flow if acquisition price is more than reg fee and sales price is less than $1000 (keep in mind median sales price of .COM at SEDO around $600) and commissions are greater than zero (15-20% industry average).

ex: 100 domains x $10 renewals = $1000 annual renewals
Reg fee domain portfolios will likely result in lower turnover but industry average is about 1%
Median sales price $600
Commission $600 x 15% = $90
Cash flow $600 - $90 - $1000 = Yes, higher turnover and sales prices are possible and no one makes you sell a domain via Godaddy or SEDO but parking is insignificant for most domain portfolios post 2005

The only way to make real money with domains is to launch a business (not just a website). Look at Techcrunch and see all the IPO startups with crap reg fee domains raising millions in startup capital.
 
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Personally I don't care if someone thinks I sell a name too low. That is for me to decide. Every name I own is for sale and those people are able to purchase any name at this "low" price. The problem with those same people is they never (or rarely) do buy the names, they just complain.
 

ResoluteDomains

Resolute DomainsTop Contributor
Impact
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..................Rick Schwarz says that every second you are minding somebody else's business, you are ignoring yours. I agree with this.

This is so true!