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AfternicAfternic
NP41215 is correct when he speaks of high typing speeds in Pinyin. The method itself is called Wubi which stands for “five stroke input method”. Wubi maps major components of Chinese characters into Roman letters. The Chinese character components are inputted in the order in which they would be written by hand.

Wubi is used primarily by speed typists and those who use a keyboard a great deal, because it is fast. However, it requires special training and ongoing practice and its learning curve is quite steep. Most Chinese do not believe that it is worth the investment in time that learning the Wubi method requires.

Rubber Duck: I really have no problem with our having a difference of viewpoint. I would appreciate it if you could be a bit more respectful toward a fellow member when you disagree. I beleive that you are very well versed, but I doubt that you have an absolute monopoly on the truth.

That having been said, the following is my understanding and you are most welcome to correct it:

Using standardized software in conjunction with the English language QWERTY keyboard, a Chinese can type in the word yuming (Pinyin) and 域名 gets put into the document.

To accomplish this, they need to switch typing methods at least twice. For instance, to type 域名.com into the address blank, they need to:

Switch to Chinese typing mode by using "Ctrl+Shift" at least once, sometimes more.

Type Pinyin yuming , select 域名 from a list of choices that appears for yuming, then

Switch back to English typing mode by using "Ctrl+Shift" or "Ctrl+Blank" , type .com, and then they’re done. Is that correct?

Too, the China Internet Network Information Center reports that as of 6/06, there were 788,400 Chinese websites. Can you point me to where you learned there were hundreds of millions of pages?

Also, I'd like to see where it is well documented that Hanzi is preferred over Pinyin. It isn't that way by the Chinese I know.

Thanks for helping me learn.

S
 
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All the chinese sites I've seen have had characters in chinese... I don't know what you're trying to prove santana.

According to you the Chinese have thrown out their ancient writing system from thousands of years ago. ;) (now typing in pinyin)

700,000 sites does not equal pages. There are hundreds of millions of pages. Some chinese sites have thousands of pages and it all adds up. Put some popular chinese words into google and you'll get 68 million to 100 million results in chinese for that one word.
 
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Since ".Com" is purely alphabet, you do need to be in alphabet mode. But instead of using "Control+Blank" or whatever combinaton of two keys, you can simply pre-program, depending on the software you use, a single key to do that in toggle mode. Which of two states is the current mode is typically shown in the video display. So one can program, say F2 (or F12 or whatever key you fancy), to do that. Press once it is in Chinese input mode, press it again it switches to English input mode. Press it again, it switches back to Chinese input mode. Of course it is a bit inconvenient. But then one can use clipboard function to past ".Com" or whatever alphabetic string, if that occurs often in a particular document.

The combination of both Chinese and English in a document is far less common than all-Chinese documents.

The quality of the input software is very important as good ones will keep track of your past typing history to guess the most likely meaning of any abbreviated letters.

For example, the full PinYin for UnitedStates or UnitedStatesOfAmerica is MeiGuo, but because this is such a common term, typing "mg" will immediately show the corresponding Chinese character for MeiGuo, i.e. 美国, as your very first choice, which is what you want in most cases. So you can save keystrokes and speed up that way.

As another example, full PinYin for China is ZhongGuo, but if you merely type "zg" or "zhg", the first displayed term is 中国, which is exactly the Chinese characters for China. Note that both 美国 and 中国 have the second character identical because that character 国 means "nation" or "country". The concept of taxonomy is very important. Just like Chinese bird names will end with the word 鸟 which is the Chinese character for "bird". There is really not much grammar in Chinese compared to English because the placement of a Chinese character as well as its meaning largely determine whether it is adjective or noun. You don't have to learn additional words or characters to distinguish the various forms, as you do in English.

Another interesting aspect of such AI-assisted input is that longer terms are in fact faster to input because the unique abbreviation is also longer and therefore less likely to cause ambiguity or confusion. For example, if I type "zh" to mean 中, the software is not too sure as "zh" can mean other equally likely words. But if I type "zhg" or "zg", the AI is now able to narrow it down a lot more so that it will in fact typically show "中国" as its top guess of what I mean, which is in fact correct. Likewise, if I type ''zgrm" the software is even more certain that I mean "Zhong/Zong Guo Ren Min/Ming" or "中国人民" (meaning "Chinese People"). So it often happens that a long phrase in Chinese characters can be typed quicker using initial letters because the combination of extra letters allows the software to narrow it down to the right combination of Chinese characters with greater accuracy and confidence. In other words, a string of gibberish Chinese characters will take many more key strokes to input since they do not form meaningful Chinese phrase groups. Whereas meaningful Chinese terms and phrases will allow abbreviations and therefore save a lot of key strokes and be more accurate to boot.

Nor is there singular or plural versions for a word. If you want to show it is plural, you add 们 to signify that.

For example 我 is the same character you use whether you use it to mean "I" or "Me". To mean "We" or "Us", you simply use 我们.

It is special considerations such as the above that enable experienced PinYin typists to input Chinese characters much faster than their English equivalents.

For example, full PinYin for "My Country" is "WoGuo", but as the two character term happens regularly, typing "wg" will be interpreted as 我国 and 我国 will be offered as the best guess, and typically correct. Contrast typing "My Country" and typing "wg" to mean the same in both languages, and it should be obvious which is quicker. Also note that 我 (which normally means "I" or "Me" or "Self") when placed before the character 国 becomes a qualifier or adjective equivalent to "My". Likewise 我家 means "My home/family" since 家 is a character meaning home or family. I digress a little to show the simplicity of Chinese grammar which obviates a lot of variations in verb tense, gender, plurality, prepositions, etc. by simply relying on straightforward and existing characters as qualifiers and their placement/positioning relative to the characters to be qualified.

In fact you can write Chinese in any direction, be it left to right or right to left, horizontally or vertically, up or down, in any curvilinear, spiral, circular or zigzag pattern. The native reader will have no difficulty in immediately figuring out the right (i.e. correct) and meaningful direction. One can choose a conventional format, but it is not necessary for full comprehension. The language is very compact, lean or laconic, and information-dense. As a result, knowing just a modest number of Chinese characters will easily go several times further in communication and comprehension than knowing the same number of English words.

Hope this makes it quite clear why the usage of Chinese characters is far more preferred over PinYin or English words in China, for reasons quite aside from cultural roots. This is also why Chinese IDNs present significant advantages for native users of the language.
 
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DNWizardX9

Maybe I haven't explained myself well; I'm not saying that the sites are written in pinyin. I'm saying that, from a purely mechanical point of view, it is easier for a Chinese to surf typing in pinyin.

My understanding is that most Chinese do not have computers in their homes and rely on cafes for surfing. Therefore, they don't have the luxury of preprogramming the computer they use.

I could be mistaken .

S
 
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DNWizardX9 and Rubber Duck,

I had the opportunity to do business with the government in China recently in another area of the economy but I am unfamiliar with the computer and Internet sector there.

I would have to say that most of us would be considered "newbies" when it comes to Internet usage in China, the number of homes with a computer and Internet access in China and the cultural realities of web surfers in China.

Can anyone actually cite other sources for the information they are presenting so that we can all learn the truth? I will say that the rudeness of your posts only diminishes your credibility at this point in the thread. It would be much better if it was educational instead of confrontational.

Thanks for any additional information.
 
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Well personally, I consider the forwarding of totally ill informed unresearched negative comment worse than rude. I must have heard the same rubbish for ASCII domainers several hundred times over the last couple of years. Always the same arrogant opinions based on zero research. Unfortunately, in terms of provide a lot of factual information on IDN this forum and DNF are still pretty much square 1. If you need to now more go to IDNF or getter gotidn.com which is where things are now happening with some momentum.

In terms of credibility, with whom am I actually seeking it? I don't actually need credibility although my mailbox is constantly full of enquires.

RD

Fundraiser said:
DNWizardX9 and Rubber Duck,

I had the opportunity to do business with the government in China recently in another area of the economy but I am unfamiliar with the computer and Internet sector there.

I would have to say that most of us would be considered "newbies" when it comes to Internet usage in China, the number of homes with a computer and Internet access in China and the cultural realities of web surfers in China.

Can anyone actually cite other sources for the information they are presenting so that we can all learn the truth? I will say that the rudeness of your posts only diminishes your credibility at this point in the thread. It would be much better if it was educational instead of confrontational.

Thanks for any additional information.
 
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All it takes is a few minutes of research. This much be the tenth time I have posted this.

The Chinese economy will overlap that of the U.S. within our lifetime.
Chinese domains are already getting tons of traffic.
More and more chinese advertisers are signing up with baidu etc.
 
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I think I would believe the CNNIC over the stats you provided

Even at 10% that is well over 100 million people which is a significant number. Thats bigger than some asian countries like South Korea etc.

Also 2005 was a long time ago in terms of the Internet. The percentages have gone up significantly in China with those accessing the Internet.

This "report" if I shall call it a report doesn't even show references to the numbers it gives.
 
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DNWizardX9 said:
I think I would believe the CNNIC over the stats you provided

Even at 10% that is well over 100 million people which is a significant number. Thats bigger than some asian countries like South Korea etc.

Also 2005 was a long time ago in terms of the Internet. The percentages have gone up significantly in China with those accessing the Internet.

This "report" if I shall call it a report doesn't even show references to the numbers it gives.

Did you take the time to review the source of the report, where it is published and whom they serve? http://www.itu.int/home/index.html

I publish a source of information and I do not offer an opinion of whether the numbers support any given position regarding IDNs and the first thing you do is try to poke holes in credibility of the data again without providing any of your own.
 
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I have posted the info many times. Must I post it for the tenth time? http://www.cnnic.net.cn/en/index/index.htm has all the info.

Do I really care what you have to say? Your answers are uneducated assumptions. If you took time to read the appropriate material you'd have a better view of whats really going on.
 
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How about this for info
Eachnic.com
Chinese Domaining community
http://www.eachnic.com/club/
Has 37805 members which makes it the world's 2nd largest domain forum.(That I know of)

I'd assume that since they are all Chinese, there must be quite a lot of Chinese using computers.
 
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Is there value to .cn names in English such as china.cn or beijingtravel.cn? Would those domains be mostly used outside China or inside as well? If beijingtravel.cn were registered could someone also register the same name using Chinese characters?
 
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DNWizardX9 said:
I have posted the info many times. Must I post it for the tenth time? http://www.cnnic.net.cn/en/index/index.htm has all the info.

Do I really care what you have to say? Your answers are uneducated assumptions. If you took time to read the appropriate material you'd have a better view of whats really going on.
LOL - Appropriate material? That's really funny. I took a completely neutral position. OK, you win. You have all the answers so good luck with your pursuits.
 
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Wow - lots of heat on this thread. No offense taken sanatana - I know you are just trying to figure it out. Although this declarative from you is rather bold as it is erroneous:

"I'm sure that all other things being equal, the Chinese would prefer to type in their own characters.

However, the reality is that isn't an option for them.

Firstly, the QWERTY is commonplace throughout China. As such, using it is virtually a must."

My retort would be that the QUERTY keyboard is commonplace throughout Japan as well and oddly enough it doesn't stop them from typing very quickly in chinese characters as well as Hiragana, Katakana, and ASCII. It's odd to me that the Chinese by your description must be too dull to do what the Japanese can do in their sleep. I somehow doubt it. At the end of the day, let's face it, traffic happens ALREADY in IDN domains. And like it or not, Chinese and Japanese people can type in Chinese characters very fluidly with a QUERTY keyboard.
 
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Just a heads-up from DomainFest LA. A speaker from ICANN hosted a session about IDN's. One of the things they want to do is open the door to internationalized TLDs. This may mean future landrushes for yet to be created IDN namespaces.
 
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Another heads-up: i-dns.net, "Over 50 million Chinese users already enabled!" Looks like ICANN has some strong competition in China.

There was a long thread about this on DomainState, not sure if I'm allowed to link to it.
 
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The argument that IDNs will take off as China's economy grows doesn't hold much water. Japan has a strong economy, a non-English speaking population, high levels of usage of their ccTLD, high per capita income, and all sorts of other things that should make it a prime candidate for IDNs. So where are all these IDNs they should be using? Clearly there are other factors holding up the widespread adoption of IDNs.

The main problem with IDNs is that very few applications support them. Oh yes, I know IE7 will change the world! Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but until every major browser, email client, and other Internet application supports IDNs they aren't going to take off. Without a lot of IDNs in use the incentive to add this support to an application is low. Chicken & Egg.

It's likely we'll get there eventually. We'll reach some point of critical mass where they just take off. Hopefully within my lifetime. Hopefully before the DNS system becomes obsolete.

If Chinas economy can continue growing at the current rate for 50 years it will indeed surpass that of the US. Of course by then, all life on earth will have been extinguished by their toxic cloud and the weather forecast for the forbidden city on Christmas day will be a balmy 100 degrees centigrade with a chance of sulphuric acid showers. IDNs won't be worth much of anything then, so lets not count on China's economy to drive IDN values :)
 
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