An Epik Statement on Racism and Injustice

[Rob Monster]

Archived copy here: https://www.epik.com/equality

 

[DaveX]

Seems an argument about providing a platform for a racist website being bad for business to me.

 

[dna]

Seems an argument about racists being bad for business to me.

You clearly haven't been arguing that with me. I don't care if racists are bad for your business.

 

[DaveX]

You clearly haven't been arguing that with me. I don't care if racists are bad for your business.

No, I took the free speech topic out of the discussion. Hate speech doesnt qualify as free speech.

 

[Grilled]

You clearly haven't been arguing that with me. I don't care if racists are bad for your business.

It sounds like you had a troubling past or upbringing. I'm sorry to hear that.

Each states have different views and different history books within their education system.

I imagine Texas and California have opposing views. I mean, those who cashed in on their mineral rights are quite blessed eh? Just like Saudia Arabia and their oil? I can see some similarities. No disrespect intended. Californians tend to prefer electric cars like Tesla's and Prisus's. Though, they still have their fair share of 4x4 trucks. I assume Texas carries a greater Truck to Tesla ratio than California.

@Silentptnr and I both live in California.
We disagree a lot.
But on systemic issues, it appears we have a lot in common.

 

[dna]

Hate speech doesnt qualify as free speech.

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment. Where does it say that hate speech is illegal?

 

[DaveX]

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment.

I'm not going to argue the constitutionality of hate speech in this thread. Clearly you defend a person's right to say anything to anyone at any time. You are in the minority if that is the case.

 

[DaveX]

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment. Where does it say that hate speech is illegal?

In a weird way, I wish all racists would come out from hiding and speak freely. But they are mostly cowards. They cant handle free speech right back at them.

 

[DaveX]

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment. Where does it say that hate speech is illegal?

If you like free speech, you'll love the link I put up earlier in the thread. Give it a listen. Support that free speech.

 

[DaveX]

"To the priveliged, equality feels like oppression"

I read that on DSAD. Its true.

 

[dna]

It sounds like you had a troubling past or upbringing. I'm sorry to hear that.

I really detest gaslighters.

 

[xynames]

Unfortunately I get the impression that the controversial variety of “free speech” supported at Epik all tends in one direction. Is this because no one else knocks at the door or because these particular brands of extremism are condoned by Epik?

 

[Grilled]

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment.

Will a wikipedia article suffice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States

Hate speech in the United States is not regulated, in contrast to that of most other liberal democracies, due to the robust right to free speech found in the American Constitution.[1] The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment. The most recent Supreme Court case on the issue was in 2017, when the justices unanimously reaffirmed that there is effectively no "hate speech" exception to the free speech rights protected by the First Amendment.

So according to wikipedia, you are correct.

In contrast, hate speech is not protected in Germany. Who would have guessed, Germany evolved quicker than the USA?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung

Volksverhetzung, in English "incitement of the masses", "instigation of the people" (the official English translation of the German Criminal Code uses "incitement to hatred"[1][2]), is a concept in German criminal law that refers to incitement to hatred against segments of the population and refers to calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them, including assaults against the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population.[1][2][3]

It is often applied to, though not limited to, trials relating to Holocaust denial in Germany. The criminal code (Strafgesetzbuch) Chapter 7 (Offences against public order), Paragraph 130 (Incitement to hatred) of the Federal Republic of Germany defines when a person is guilty of Volksverhetzung.[1][2][3]

Too bad we have career politicians from states like Kentucky who seemingly make a living by holding up progress.

I really detest gaslighters.

Me too!

That's one of my issues with Epik. Finally we have similar tissues.

I detest ignorant viewpoints.

Though, I'm still sorry for any racism or any other injustice to which you may have experienced in your upbringing, education, or life journey.

There is a reason why we no longer live in the past. Speaking to evolution.

It's nice when you care about future generations. Climate change regulation is a hot issue for us young folks who care about keeping the earth sustainable, and tolerant to accepting future generations of all colors, sizes, shapes, culture, and even intellect.

I do understand how it must be hard for some to accept more science, as it begins to supersede religious belief. That must be scary for some of the older generations, similar to how it may have felt when planes went mainstream.

Still, whether you stand for it or not, climate change, and hate speech will be swiftly addressed when the baby boomers are voted/pushed out of office.

 

[domainicate]

I am guessing that you have no idea that I am black...more so that I am African, born and raised in Ghana.

I spent a good part of my youth in the country where the Transatlantic slave trade began 500 years ago. We still have the slave castles that we helped build for the Europeans to remind us of the horrific treatment we subjected our own brothers and sisters to. My family was right smack in the middle of it all. I am ashamed to say that we amassed generational wealth by facilitating and brokering slave transactions over a period of 400 years. After the slaves were sold, they were 'stored' in dungeons for months awaiting the arrival of the next cargo vessel. In spite of the grossly inhumane conditions under which we saw our people being kept on our own shores, we still provided and ensured safe passage for the slave ships.

The article I am writing will thoroughly illustrate how the very state of mind that made slave trade more convenient for the European settlers over a 400 year span still exists today. It will shed light on all the ways in which we are STILL selling our own people into psychological slavery. Until we stop taking dumps in our own houses, we can't point fingers at others for dumping in our houses.

You don't sell someone a mule and expect them to treat it like an eagle.

I am a documentary filmmaker by day. I can inbox you my name so you can research my background.

In a small world scenario... I have been to Ghana (and traveled extensively throughout... Kumasi, Accra, Bolgatanga, etc.) and I have seen the dungeons and the ports where slaves were shipped from. Very sad part of history.

 

[Grilled]

"To the priveliged, equality feels like oppression"

I read that on DSAD. Its true.

Close.

Actually DSAD.com [@Domain Shane] said,

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression” – Mike Jebbett

@Domain Shane for bringing this quote to the industry. So those needing to cross its pass, can stumble upon it. I am starting to see what other domainers have said about DS for years. That DS is a man of principle, and somebody to listen to, as others have pointed to him being a good role model. As each day goes by, I am starting to see more and more of what my domaining peers have seen in DS over the years. Keep up the good blogging!

HuffPost.com had written an article with that quote as the subject.

All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married. All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot...

They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away.

Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does.

It’s like an old man being used to having a community pool all to himself, having that pool actually opened up to everyone in the community, and then that old man yelling, “But what about MY right to swim in a pool all by myself?!”

And what we’re seeing politically right now is a bit of anger from both sides. On one side, we see people who are angry about “those people” being let into “our” pool. They’re angry about sharing their toys with the other kids in the classroom.

They’re angry about being labeled a “racist,” just because they say racist things and have racist beliefs. They’re angry about having to consider others who might be walking toward them, strangely exerting their right to exist.

This is the “Again” of “Make America Great Again.” Don’t worry, they’ll just open some swim clubs and make the membership really expensive...

In it, were some other quotes relevant to this discussion. Such as

 

[Samer]

If a registrar has to issue a statement on racial issues, run. This is not a place of trust and you certainly shouldn’t have them hold your inventory.

If registrar has not issued a statement, run.

Who hasnt issued 1? Almost all, not just epik.
Nearly every single company,not just registrars

If registrar statement is short 2 sentences, run.
Might show, they dont take seriously. (GD)

 

[Grilled]

If a registrar statement is 2 sentences, run.

Or you could just say 3 words.

IMO. @porkbun had a nice short, simple, and to the point tweet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1270786533482655745

With Namesilo taking the most responsible decisive action the domain industry has seen in a long time.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268270020129325056

With an assist from @GoDaddyHelp

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267619406680645632

I applauded that action. You

Registrars should not get involved in politics.

What double standard. If GeorgeFloyd.com was registered w/ NameSilo was sold (it sold) would you have claimed it too? @namesilo

Samer

being Epiks biggest supporter, had seemingly took another stance. A stance I question if Epik would agree with you on.

As for the Epik statement, well, as usual. One of these things is not like the other. Just tip toeing around with their attempt, as one epik VP of communications alluded to at last Fridays DnAcad meet up, "combating hate and taking grand stances". Minute Mark 103:44 HERE

To lots of other folks out there, making a statement to support others (such as Black Lives Matter) is NOT simply a show of grandstanding. But like most things epik, epiks PR folks seems to have a distorted reality or perception as to how marketing and/or social sensitivity actually works. I suppose some things are more systemic than others.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271258171118583808

To me, that's a lot of words to spew, just to avoid the three words that most engulfed in the battle / historical systemic disadvantage need to hear (or are asking for to acknowledge you are listening). But I suppose just as GD has shareholders to appease, Epik also has its own subset of investors and clients it has to answer to.

Might show, they dont take it seriously. (GD)

Similar how it appears your blind bias makes it hard for anyone to take your epik comments seriously?

Look man, it hurts me to see you getting grilled by others in domain blog comments. They are low blows. But you have to see some folks won't stand for the blind ignorance a lot of your epik comments tend to carry

 

[frank-germany]

I really don't understand why anyone cares if some nutty Holocaust deniers have a website.
Even nuts have the right to free speech, or at least they do in the US.

Nuts may have the right to speak in the USA

But I don't want to pay for the server that host those speeches

If a registrar has to issue a statement on racial issues, run. This is not a place of trust and you certainly shouldn’t have them hold your inventory.

wow Keith
exactly that 's it.

Please show me in the constitution where it says that "hate speech" is not protected by the first amendment. Where does it say that hate speech is illegal?

this is an international forum

the definition of the US what is appropriate to qualify as
free speech is not the same for every member

I see no reason to allow somebody
to spread lies
in order to plant hate in peoples heart
in order to create violence

and that is against the german law

Rob actively (after me complaining) allows
videos to be hosted on epik servers
via us.tv
that are created for the sole purpose
to create doubt in people
that the stories of nazi concentration camp survivors
during the time of WWII
are actually untrue
and that the concentration camps were only normal medical camps
which is a severe crime in Germany for good reason

 

[Arfy]

In a weird way, I wish all racists would come out from hiding and speak freely. But they are mostly cowards. They cant handle free speech right back at them.

The worst kind is institutional racism and disguised racism. Where everything in the system is poised against you and there is no way of proving it. If those at the top don't take action it slowly trickles down the hiearchy. I've been in a group of people during a work social (not current workplace) where they were making derogatory comments about Muslims and also blatant racial discrimination against Pakistan, not knowing I was a Muslim and my ethnic background is Pakistani. I let it go on for a few minutes and then I mentioned that they reminded me that I need to see my grandmother in Pakistan as its been a while.. with Eid coming up it would be a nice surprise. Their faces dropped and they apologized. Also a few of them told me how they have Pakistani / Muslim friends and hence the jokes (that old chestnut). I think that opened their eyes a little as we got on really well (still did afterwards).

What's sad is that one of them got promoted to a position where he might make recruitment decisions - that's what makes me angry. How will that influence recruitment of those that he speaks lowly of?

 

[karmaco]

Back to the original post, I really think the word “manufactured” in “the degrees of manufactured separation” should not be there. There is nothing manufactured about racism, people of color routinely getting killed by cops etc. Its disgustingly real and not “manufactured”. That word should not be there at all. Sounds like it’s referring to made up things. Also interesting is zero reference to BLM.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

The worst kind is institutional racism and disguised racism. Where everything in the system is poised against you and there is no way of proving it. If those at the top don't take action it slowly trickles down the hiearchy. I've been in a group of people during a work social (not current workplace) where they were making derogatory comments about Muslims and also blatant racial discrimination against Pakistan, not knowing I was a Muslim and my ethnic background is Pakistani. I let it go on for a few minutes and then I mentioned that they reminded me that I need to see my grandmother in Pakistan as its been a while.. with Eid coming up it would be a nice surprise. Their faces dropped and they apologized. Also a few of them told me how they have Pakistani / Muslim friends and hence the jokes (that old chestnut). I think that opened their eyes a little as we got on really well (still did afterwards).

What's sad is that one of them got promoted to a position where he might make recruitment decisions - that's what makes me angry. How will that influence recruitment of those that he speaks lowly of?

Arfy....i'm 25% Jewish, but Jewish enough that after visiting the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, I learned that I too would have been exterminated if Hitler and his thugs had discovered me.

So, am I pissed off at all Muslims because it's been said (by some) that Muslims preach "Death to America" and "Death to Israel"? No I'm not Arfy because I know an overwhelming majority of Muslims don't preach that any more than an overwhelming majority of police and white males like myself are racist.

Now, getting back to Epik's statement. I've been a successful business guy in my time, and I wouldn't have made such a company statement, and would have advised Rob Monster and company not to. At one time I had over 100 employees from all walks of life, and I didn't care if an employee was black, white, yellow, brown, female, male, handicapped or LBGTQ. Whoever performed or interviewed best got the job.

Finally, like Will Smith said, "Prejudice is common, but Racism is Rare". Now I have people who tell me he didn't mean that, to which I say; Bulloney