Located in The Break Room, started by Rob Monster, Jun 12, 2020
Archived copy here: https://www.epik.com/equality
Thank you epik and Rob.
I am interested in words and actions.
The treat people with "kindness, humility, and compassion" rhetoric does not match your actions.
Or does spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories and sharing a video of people being slaughtered qualify under that? Do attacks on an editor @ Wikipedia fall under that? Do racist comments from Epik employees fall under that?
Is Epik still going to not only host, but court the far right wing extremists, which often include racism as shown over and over again?
Is Epik going to take any action vs employees for their racist comments?
Is Epik going to openly come out and reject racist supporters like Charizard?
Also, isn't Robert Davis the user intelliname that has been involved of much of this nonsense from the attack on Molly White @ Wikipedia, spreading baseless conspiracy theories, and the recent nonsense with Dan.com?
It is my view that Rob and Epik put themselves in this position with their (poor) decisions.
Take accountability. Take responsibility. Take action to fix it.
Long statement and it would be good to address the questions posed by @bmugford. Great job to Epik management for this statement specially @Intelliname Rob Davis for putting this together.
Good actions expect after this statement.
Companies and people who are in a position to effect meaningful change need be better than this:
Laws are imperfect. Laws can be unjust. History has proven this time and time again.
Unjust laws will only change when people are brave enough to stand together against them.
It's disappointing to me that Epik's bravery is so lacking on this front.
I think I am missing context. Perhaps unpack this for us. What law did you wish for us to fight this week?
I think what Joe was saying is pretty clear. Just because something is within the law doesn't mean it is acceptable behavior. You went out of your way to court many of these extremists.
Laws change over time. There was a time when slavery was lawful, or burning witches at the stake, or endless other things that look ridiculous now.
Your statement means nothing without concrete actions.
I welcome an Epik statement on what actions you are actually going to take.
Brad explained it perfectly.
Hate speech is legally allowed under every American's first amendment rights. Therefore Epik believes every American deserves a chance to engage in hate speech.
This is disappointing.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. See Matthew 7:1-5 for context. Or you can learn it the hard way. Your call.
First of all, we are all works in progress, including Epik, its staff and me. The industry is also a work in progress. Did anyone expect this one today?
If your objective is to turn this positive thread into a struggle session for Epik, I am likely to disappoint you.
The point of the statement is to engage with compassion and love.
We can do all more of that, including you.
As for Wikipedia, there is a dedicated thread about it.
As for right wing sites, we don't court them. In fact, we turn many of them away.
If you want to have a call to discuss specific cases, happy to do that and report back to the group, as I surely lack context, e.g. never heard of "Charizard".
Here was my related comment:
Seems more like a cult writer / sheep herd writing to me.
Actions > Words.
My point is to show your words don't match your actions, and unless you are willing to take actions that back up those words, then the words themselves are meaningless.
Well when threats of exposing the industry's dirty laundry surface, I suppose nobody is immune from feeling the need to walk back statements or delete tweets.
Looks like some type of domain roundtable boardroom agreement was had to turn the grill down and keep secrets from boiling over.
Perhaps change the statement title to something more fitting such as:
More Epik Propaganda on racism and injustice
Do we in the democracies not elect those who make our laws? Do we not elect replacements for those we think have not done a good job making our laws? Do those elected not have a chance, and indeed often do, change laws? Do we not have a system where laws either existing or proposed are openly and publicly debated?
It seems people are equating 'bad laws' as those they disapprove of, either current laws or now historic laws. What right has anyone in a democratic country to decide arbitrarily which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore? If people do not like a law then try to get it changed, remarkably the system works very well. You find others of the same belief as you and you work together, you try and convince others of the rightness of your cause, you get 'public support' that at the ballot box brings about a decision of the electorate that within the democratic system used brings to power those the people wish to be governed by. If your beliefs are supported by a vast number of the electorate then generally your beliefs will result in those elected being in power and thus making and changing the laws of the society and country in which you live.
However, to just say that certain people should not have the right to air their views because they or others don't like those views, even though it is within the law for them to do so, is dictatorship and nothing else. Indeed this is the very practice that is carried out by dictators throughout history.
The basic rule in modern democracies is that the rule of law must be paramount and that the law applies to all. (I know exceptions apply for holders of certain offices, etc..) Is this not the best form of government and law making that exists? I think it is, even though in my own country of the UK I think some laws are ridiculous and indeed bad, and I obey the law because the society in which I live, a democracy, the law applies to everyone fairly and irrespective of prejudices. I think the same can be said generally for the USA and the other western type democracies in this world.
Give me our democracies any day of the week and the rule of just law over politicised indoctrinated mob dictatorship. Those who do not break the laws should not have their equal rights set asunder just because others don't like them.
Right then, that is my one and only post on this thread, because from here on in I expect it to go the usual tirade of the 'right' are bad and the 'left' are great, or vice versa, in my mind neither view is totally accurate and indeed if one were then the ballot boxes would be overflowing in support of the one over the other.
Epik gives the same treatment and respect to all its customers as far as I can see - as long as they obey the law, and that is how it should be.
My stance on the racially-charged state of affairs in the US is a rather controversial one. I maintain that the tenets of the Black Lives Matter movement are absolutely pointless at best and preposterous at worst. I have never met a group of people pervaded with as much self-hatred as blacks. If your life matters, show the world that it does instead of telling them. For starters, stop killing each other over worthless crap. I am writing an extensive article supported with data that will most likely garner a substantial number of enemies in the Black community. What I have to say, while offensive, is the truth that MUST be said. If the spirit moves me, I'll go further and make a documentary.
If you have unbiased data to support what you're saying, then I hope your article will be objectively exploring why this is happening.
Without the "why", the "what" is nothing more than a barometer to show us that there is a problem.
I am guessing that you have no idea that I am black...more so that I am African, born and raised in Ghana.
I spent a good part of my youth in the country where the Transatlantic slave trade began 500 years ago. We still have the slave castles that we helped build for the Europeans to remind us of the horrific treatment we subjected our own brothers and sisters to. My family was right smack in the middle of it all. I am ashamed to say that we amassed generational wealth by facilitating and brokering slave transactions over a period of 400 years. After the slaves were sold, they were 'stored' in dungeons for months awaiting the arrival of the next cargo vessel. In spite of the grossly inhumane conditions under which we saw our people being kept on our own shores, we still provided and ensured safe passage for the slave ships.
The article I am writing will thoroughly illustrate how the very state of mind that made slave trade more convenient for the European settlers over a 400 year span still exists today. It will shed light on all the ways in which we are STILL selling our own people into psychological slavery. Until we stop taking dumps in our own houses, we can't point fingers at others for dumping in our houses.
You don't sell someone a mule and expect them to treat it like an eagle.
I am a documentary filmmaker by day. I can inbox you my name so you can research my background.
My post made no reference to your race at all.
Sounds like an interesting article. Would have been a lot less inflammatory sounding if you had led with all that detail.
Racism is real, world needs solutions not people trying to make things worse.
Every life matters. Every race has good and evil individuals.
Sometimes white people kill fellow white people, black people kill fellow black people, same applies to other races. Simply put some people kill fellow human beings, no matter what race.
Black lives matter, does not mean other lives don't matter.
Thread is specific to addressing existing issues of racism and injustice.
Black on black crime or white on white crime is not racism, is a separate issue that needs specific solutions.
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
I moved all my names from Epik, started moving the names at the beginning of the Gab saga. It is sad because I liked the platform.
Agree with Brad "Take accountability. Take responsibility. Take action to fix it."
Race has been the subtext of this discussion. Why would I lead with that and diminish the shock value?
I find knee-jerk reactions before facts are gathered rather interesting. You were actually very diplomatic in your response in spite of not having that pertinent information.
I have lived in the US for the last 25 years. One of my greatest regrets I have was attending a historically black college. 95% of the discrimination I have faced in this country came from African Americans. I was ridiculed in class on several occasions because of my accent. This was always my response: "Your mockery of the way I speak glorifies the very process that led to your becoming American." Most of these kids had IQs too far below room temperature to grasp the insult.
Listen to the lyrics in RAP music. Pay attention to how the verbiage demeans their women. Also pay attention to all the products that are being promoted in them. Prada, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Fendi, etc. These dumb kids get brainwashed by this garbage. They then go out and rob each other for these brand name goods at gunpoint often resulting in the death of their victims.
On a monthly basis, blacks in the US kill far more blacks (over 4k) than the KKK has since it's formation. If you start a chess game by taking out all your black pawns, how does that increase your chances of winning?! Until we put well executed radical reform programs in place to demonstrate that our lives really matter, we just need to shut up. We do more harm to ourselves than the police ever does to us.
Take a look at this video:
This is one of the many black owned businesses that were vandalized under the guise of protesting against police brutality. Will someone explain to me how one can rationalize this stupidity? How does this illustrate our value for our lives? How does this alleviate our economic disadvantage?
You cannot mandate that other people treat you better than you're willing to treat yourself. That is just downright ridiculous.
Thanks Rob, for what's it's worth, appreciate the post.
Just wanted to put out there, must be quite the balancing act, to try and feed dinner table with such a diverse group of appetites. At times, I'm sure it must weight. Respect, and I stand with you.
Give a man a fish, satisfy him for a day. Teach him how to fish, a lifetime. I think this is what Rob brings to the table.
I haven't done enough research on the topic to discuss it properly.
Maybe the things you suggest are part of the problem. However, I think that the way you're making your points is also part of the problem.
Anytime you're willing to cast blame on an entire group of people, you demean the wide variety of individuals in that group. You also give an easy out to all the other people outside that group who have a part to play in making things better.
These issues are caused by individuals, the choices we make alone and in groups, the policies and systems we create... We're all responsible.
If you profess to be a black man and you write all these, ( don't let me to call it trash) you must be having a screwed perspection of Africa affairs. Before you continue with your article, go and read wide on how the West looted, and are still looting African resources till date.
The evil structures that they have set in motion in various African countries that the worst of us will always rule over the best, so that they can always pave ways for them whenever they come to steal African resources to better their own lives in the West.
Whenever they see rising stars such as; Nkurumah, Awolowo, Nelson Mandela etc, that will challenge their hegemony they will quickly orchestrate their evil machinations called coup to topple any government that will do the will of the people.
Since the time they have set their feets on African soil, till now, Africa have not know peace. We have never for ones been allowed to govern ourselves. It as always been black faces with white powers in all our governments.
It is only God that can deliver Africans.
i assure everyone, my domains are not a race. They are super bytes at the most. tyvm.
this seems easy for a registrar, since all you get is money or hold domains. Not sure why race is even a question, should be not rich enough to be at your registrar not what color. hmmmmm
I live in a predominantly white neighborhood in Old Town Alexandria Virginia. You sound just like my white friends. They have been very apologetic and borderline obsequious since the recent turn of events. I have to constantly remind them that we were once business partners. I AM an integral part of the problem. I am not an isolated case. It is a widespread cultural phenomena. I AM a part of that group that I am blaming. It is always far too convenient for us to blame someone else for our home-grown problems.
I am a Fanti, a tribe of elitists who pride themselves in being fluent in the 'Queen's English' and frown upon anyone who cannot construct grammatically impeccable sentences. 75% of us have English full-names. Please explain to me how this illustrates national or cultural pride?
You are on the outside looking in. You have to live as a black person who has been exposed to various facets of the black culture to appreciate where I'm coming from. It is not the responsibility of the people outside the group to value us more than we value ourselves.
Here goes the blame game and finger-pointing again. Please explain, logistically, how one goes about looting a country's gold from the mines along with all the other natural resources WITHOUT the approval of the local leaders? Please explain to me exactly how you think these corrupt leaders who collaborate and sell the country's resources came into power? Who do you think governed us before the colonial masters showed up 500 years ago? Who do you think gave them permission to govern us when they showed up? How do you think these coups are staged? If I arm you with a gun to kill your brother, would you actually do it if you value him more than the money you have been offered?
Every time any African political leader comes into power, the first thing they do is line their pockets with the country's money. They come in broke and leave multimillionaires. John Mahama served as the president of Ghana from 2012 to 2017. His net worth was $900M by the time he was leaving office. He came in with nothing. The salary of the Ghana president is $76K a year. Please explain that math to me. What do you think he sold to make that money? Who do you think he sold it to?
Look, it is a generational systemic problem that has pervaded our culture for a over 500 years. Until we own up to the major role we continue to play in the issues facing us, no amount of excuses made for us as a group or reparations will avail us.
One day my wife had the audacity to say that all blacks have been brainwashed. My response was "Who gave them permission to brainwash us? Where were we when it was being done? What did we do about it while it was being done?"
I call a spade a spade. I was raised never to make excuses. We, as a group of people, effed up several years ago and continue to dig ourselves deeper into a hole. We are like crabs in a barrel pulling each other down. Until that mentality changes, we will not realize any significant advancement as a group.
By the way, God cannot protect us against ourselves.
Separate names with a comma.