Statement By Dan on Epik!!

[Ostrados]

This statement was just released by Dan:

We’ve ignored many of their actions in the past, because we’re laser focused on executing our ambitious product roadmap. However, last Friday, Epik has taken their attacks of our brand to the next level by sending a fabricated story about us to over 100,000 contacts in a mass email. As of today, we still haven’t received an apology or explanation from them. Their primary goal with this email was to hurt our brand and to gain new customers and this attempt was pre-planned and announced by them in June 2020* (See exhibit #2).

Full statement:
https://blog.undeveloped.com/statement-about-recent-events-b7c875cc6314

Have anyone received that email from Epik attacking Dan? I wonder what is the fabricated story Dan taking about?

 

[boker]

Forsale domain is either available via registration path of consumer-facing registrars (GoDaddy, NameCheap etc) or it is not. Availability means more sales. Good landing page alone, be it powered by dan or anybody else, can not and should not be considered as the only source of buyers. Both in 2010 and in 2020.... In any case, we have to see what Dan will offer. Maybe they will purchase afternic from GD

Exactly the same can be said about the registrar path, considering it the only way will kill 80% of your leads. On top of that, considering only godaddy registrars path, will kill over 95% of your leads. Again, I have most of my names through afternic fast transfer, but I made less than 10% of sales through registrars path, compared to landing page. If we count whois inquiries, brandable marketplaces, small marketplaces, it's even less. Even more, if you count the cctlds sales, which, at least in Europe, they have a big share, godaddy is totally absent. Please check and let me know how many cctlds godaddy sold in the last year. I have sold tens of them and like me there are lots; of domainers and lot's of buyers. For me, godaddy is like kodak 25-30 years ago. A giant dormant who can't(don't want) keep up with the changing times. Check where Kokak was 25 years ago, what have they innovated and where they are today.

 

[boker]

Forsale domain is either available via registration path of consumer-facing registrars (GoDaddy, NameCheap etc) or it is not. Availability means more sales. Good landing page alone, be it powered by dan or anybody else, can not and should not be considered as the only source of buyers. Both in 2010 and in 2020.... In any case, we have to see what Dan will offer. Maybe they will purchase afternic from GD

Also, you should ask BB, SH, DAN and others how they manage to make thousands or in some cases tens of thousands of sales, without being in the registrars path( even less godaddy path). Again, we are in 2020, when people can( and they will, in 95% of the cases) check whois, google, landing pages and so on. I can bet that the buyers who use exclusively the registrars path to buy a domain in 2020 are a very small minority.

 

[jhmisher]

number one culprit of a lot of bad things in the industry is hugedomains out of denver. sort of like the george soros throwing money at other companies to do bad things

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.hugedomains.com

 

[Lox]

Positioning Aftermarket of the Domain industry as a “behind the scenes” do not serve the economy of money making communities.

That > “behind the scenes” is not attracting influencers, journalists, media houses nor prospects or businesses etc. Only a mayor controversy ($35mln voice.com didn't help much, contrary - lots of people enjoy being scared by $35mln sale but if it scares Indiana Jones, ...?)

Without the professional promotion by the mass media agency/ies and influencers attracting media coverage nothing will change > outside (domainers window).

The vast majority of the postings / blogging seems more like a bunch of linear vs vertical echoes to me.

They (marketplaces, registrars, registries) seek only to promote their brands, goose. They should develop a self-promotion tool > dn sellers-movement' (ethical) to create healthy impact. SEO is not enough!

Regards

 

[jmcc]

As for the moment yes. The biggest mistake GoDaddy is making and a lot of other bigger venues are making, and where DAN does very well is the European market, middle East, Africa maybe. That's where they gained traction. They're building from that which seems to be working.

The domain name marketplaces outside the US and Canada tend to be highly regionalised and focused on the local ccTLDs more so than gTLDs. Some of these operations, such as the ones in the UK are highly specialised and have their own registrars (tags). The only way into some of these markets is through acquiring some of the leading players.

If they become a public facing registrar, I have no doubt they will pursue to dethrone GoDaddy or get swallowed up by them in the process.

Godaddy is like an iceberg in that only the part above the water (the retail hosting and registration) is visible. It has acquired a lot of European hosters and hosting groups and is a serious player in the ccTLD market as a result of this.

Godaddy's expired domain name feeder system is one of the largest and it is difficult for other players to compete on the same level.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

The domain name marketplaces outside the US and Canada tend to be highly regionalised and focused on the local ccTLDs more so than gTLDs. Some of these operations, such as the ones in the UK are highly specialised and have their own registrars (tags). The only way into some of these markets is through acquiring some of the leading players.

Godaddy is like an iceberg in that only the part above the water (the retail hosting and registration) is visible. It has acquired a lot of European hosters and hosting groups and is a serious player in the ccTLD market as a result of this.

Godaddy's expired domain name feeder system is one of the largest and it is difficult for other players to compete on the same level.

Regards...jmcc

They could have bought some european companies, but I have never sold even 1 european cctld on afternic and godaddy and I've sold tens of them, mostly through whois or landing page...I've had offers through sedo, but not godaddy. The cctlds are not part of the premium network, so they don't appear in the registrars path, the area where afternic is good. Europeans are using mostly landing pages for cctlds acquisitions, at least the one's who bought from me.

 

[branding]

The domain name marketplaces outside the US and Canada tend to be highly regionalised and focused on the local ccTLDs more so than gTLDs. Some of these operations, such as the ones in the UK are highly specialised and have their own registrars (tags). The only way into some of these markets is through acquiring some of the leading players.

You're right about that. EU market/ccTLDs is an entirely different playing field. That said, Dan has ties with big ccTLD registrars and works with some of the bigger resellers. As for EU registrants using registrars for gTLDs, in my experience (not backed by data) they prefer the local registrars as well.

Godaddy is like an iceberg in that only the part above the water (the retail hosting and registration) is visible. It has acquired a lot of European hosters and hosting groups and is a serious player in the ccTLD market as a result of this.

Godaddy's expired domain name feeder system is one of the largest and it is difficult for other players to compete on the same level.

You probably mean HEG? I think that mainly targeted the UK although they are also active in DE and ES I think think, not sure how big they are over there. But yes, acquiring local registrars is the way to go.

As for the expired domains stream, it's hard to beat as is but if they start focusing on the EU and work their way up from there, like they did with the marketplace, I can see them getting a decent piece of that pie.

Going by numbers, win over the domain investors and you'll win a large chunk of marketshare.

 

[jmcc]

They could have bought some european companies, but I have never sold even 1 european cctld on afternic and godaddy and I've sold tens of them, mostly through whois or landing page.

Host Europe Group had been buying up a lot of smaller hosters. Then Godaddy bought HEG. The European markets have their own sales/auction sites and the European market is heavily ccTLD orientated.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

Host Europe Group had been buying up a lot of smaller hosters. Then Godaddy bought HEG. The European markets have their own sales/auction sites and the European market is heavily ccTLD orientated.

Regards...jmcc

I know that, what I was saying is that I can't see the advantage of buying them, regarding the sale of aftermarket european cctlds. In the local sales/auction sites, the listings are done by domainers and I don't see how godaddy/afternic could gain anything from there. Are you saying that the auction sites are owned by them? I don't think so. Even so, I know about them, but I have never used them, my inquiries for cctlds are coming from whois( a small percentage) and landing pages( most of them, like undeveloped landing page). So, I can see dan selling hundreds of cctlds a month( even thousands) but I can't see godaddy/afternic selling european cctlds( even through Host Europe Group).

Regarding HEG, they are mostly presents in UK and Spain, and little bit in Germany, but the cctlds market is way bigger than that. I have used around 10 EU registrars for lots of european cctlds, but never used them, even by accident, so they have a small share of the pie. Probably are specialized more on hosting, than domain registration and aftermarket sales in Europe.

 

[jmcc]

You're right about that. EU market/ccTLDs is an entirely different playing field. That said, Dan has ties with big ccTLD registrars and works with some of the bigger resellers. As for EU registrants using registrars for gTLDs, in my experience (not backed by data) they prefer the local registrars as well.

The local markets tend to be dominated by the top 10 players. However some of those have been bought by Godaddy/HEG, Team Blue and United Internet. At a hosting level, the European and the Global market looks very different to the usual view of the top players.

You probably mean HEG? I think that mainly targeted the UK although they are also active in DE and ES I think think, not sure how big they are over there. But yes, acquiring local registrars is the way to go.

It is the only way to build up a share of a market in a short time. The older hosters generally have a major share of the market and get most of the new registrations each month. They are also well connected with the local ccTLD registries as they are ccTLD registrars. The hosting groups generally end up with multiple ccTLD and gTLD registries. When a hoster is taken over by a portfolio operator, the gTLDs are the first to be rationalised and it is not unusual to see ICANN registrars being terminated and gTLD activity being switched to the portfolio operator's main ICANN registrar. The ccTLD registrars are quite a different matter as the new registrations in European markets are overwhelmingly ccTLD rather than gTLD so it makes more sense to maintain the illusion of competition.

Going by numbers, win over the domain investors and you'll win a large chunk of marketshare.

Unfortunately, domain investors are only a small part of the market that a registrar needs to be commercially viable.

Regards...jmcc

 

[jmcc]

I know that, what I was saying is that I can't see the advantage of buying them, regarding the sale of aftermarket european cctlds.

The portfolio operators are just interested in market share. They aren't specifically targeting domainers though some of them have their own auction/sales sites. Their main business is hosting and domain names are just a way to upsell the customers to more expensive products and services.

So, I can see dan selling hundreds of cctlds a month( even thousands) but I can't see godaddy/afternic selling european cctlds( even through Host Europe Group).

It might do but Godaddy/HEG's focus is not domainers. What Dan is doing is targeting a specific market rather than the wider market that Godaddy/HEG and the others target.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

The portfolio operators are just interested in market share. They aren't specifically targeting domainers though some of them have their own auction/sales sites. Their main business is hosting and domain names are just a way to upsell the customers to more expensive products and services.

It might do but Godaddy/HEG's focus is not domainers. What Dan is doing is targeting a specific market rather than the wider market that Godaddy/HEG and the others target.

Regards...jmcc

That's the idea, I don't think that dan was interested in the hosting and stuff. Even as registrar, they said it will do it just to gain a bigger share of aftermarket sales and the help their own system, as a registrar they just want to cover their expenses.

 

[topdom]

HEG sounds familiar.. As far as I know it is a bad company. I don't mean evil intentions..it just doesn't work correctly. Hosting is a dirty business: you have to surrender your data to one of cartels if you are a customer.

 

[xynames]

@Soofi and I had something like that happen:

Update: Underdeveloped aka Dan deleted my account without notice, for raising concerns about their poor payment processing, of their platform and I lost all my (almost dead) leads or failed transactions data.

Glad I moved out of their useless underdeveloped platform earlier than that!!

Interesting. Other than posting the Truth about how my exact same domains have sold well at platforms like Afternic Sedo DomainAgents and not at all during the same time period, at UNdeveloped (DAN) I haven't been a particularly vocal critic of DAN's lately and yet is it possible that @DAN.COM , meaning REZA pulled the same childish stunt on me, closing my DAN account because I have posted criticism of his platform?
https://www.namepros.com/threads/tw...d-dan-marketplace.1141640/page-3#post-7601758
I hope I am wrong, because any company owner who would pull your account Soofi simply because you criticized his business is not worthy of running any company with a public presence.

I mean let's just close bank accounts and processing accounts anytime a client files a complaint with the Better Business Bureau or posts something negative about us online; what a mature way to run a business. Real way to ensure longevity of your business.

I am not jumping to conclusions yet but it would seem that the end of 2019 was "Reza flies off the handle month" for DAN as Reza closed the DAN accounts of anyone who criticized him. And again, if I am wrong, and there was some legitimate reason for DAN to have closed your account Soofi, I would love to hear it from Reza.

What is really interesting is that the last communication I received from DAN was one CONFIRMING that yet another bogus buyer (apparently a recurring issue at DAN according to @JudgeMind ) had bid on a domain (not that I ever got too many bids, legitimate OR bogus while at DAN, and NO closed sales whatsoever at DAN even though my same domains continue to sell like gangbusters elsewhere), and then when I got around to trying to respond to DAN about this issue, I noticed that I could not login and that my email address no longer existed as a DAN account.

I really don't want to think that the public presence for an online company would act in this manner, and would welcome the opportunity to re-post here that I was mistaken.

although my account was reinstated at DAN and remains up.

I haven't looked into whether my listings are being IP "blocked" at DAN as Epik alleges, but then I haven't had much to say about DAN one way or another in some time so maybe I am no longer on that DAN "hit list" assuming there is such a list.

 

[Soofi]

They went a little soft on you but be very careful about voicing out your opinion/feedback about their service in near future bud

@Soofi and I had something like that happen:


although my account was reinstated at DAN and remains up.

I haven't looked into whether my listings are being IP "blocked" at DAN as Epik alleges, but then I haven't had much to say about DAN one way or another in some time so maybe I am no longer on that DAN "hit list" assuming there is such a list.

 

[branding]

The ccTLD registrars are quite a different matter as the new registrations in European markets are overwhelmingly ccTLD rather than gTLD so it makes more sense to maintain the illusion of competition.

Illusion indeed there's not many independent registrars left. Ultimately that will hurt the consumer although at the moment I notice each of the brands is targeting a different kind of user. Smart play and an old marketing trick. Staying in competition with one of your own brands.

By the way, what about Endurance? They're a big player. Not the size of GD but one to be taken into account. They've accumulated quite the portfolio containing very well known brands. Where GD is consolidation they seem to keep their brands running separately, on the surface at least. They may focus more on add-ons (hosting, etc) but do own some renown registrars as well.

 

[jmcc]

Illusion indeed there's not many independent registrars left. Ultimately that will hurt the consumer although at the moment I notice each of the brands is targeting a different kind of user. Smart play and an old marketing trick. Staying in competition with one of your own brands.

At the top of some of the markets, there is a lot of false competition but some of the registrars and hosters are more complimentary than competitive. There's retail hosting (think of it as small sites on shared hosting with less than a hundred webpages and a ccTLD/COM domain name combined with domain names that are only ever used for e-mail or not at all), dedicated/managed servers and Cloud hosting and others that offer DNS as a service (Dyn, NSone etc). The mix of options offered by some hosters is often focused so a portfolio operator could end up with some of its hosters targeting the retail market, some targeting the dedicated market and one or two targeting the Cloud market. Some of the portfolio operators are careful about the hosters that they acquire and how they are perceived in the market. With Cloud hosting, the big players are Amazon, Microsoft and Google. It is difficult for smaller operations to compete against these players.

By the way, what about Endurance? They're a big player.

Excluding the mess of the Chinese market where it is difficult to connect registrars and hosters, they are the second largest portfolio operator with 5.32% of the AMBIONIC market. (Acronym for .COM/NET/ORG/BIZ/INFO/MOBI/ASIA). Godaddy's main portfolio has 25.91% with its HEG and others portfolio at 0.91%. It also has PPC, brand protection and auction/sales operations. Endurance is at 5.32%.

Not the size of GD but one to be taken into account. They've accumulated quite the portfolio containing very well known brands. Where GD is consolidation they seem to keep their brands running separately, on the surface at least. They may focus more on add-ons (hosting, etc) but do own some renown registrars as well.

Godaddy seems to be careful about what it acquires in that it is already the biggest and often buys to acquire market share.It is a clever strategy in that it allows others to build up the business rather than having to invest time in building it. The HEG operation is heavily ccTLD focused as most European hosters have more than 50% ccTLD registrations and the gTLDs are less important. Endurance seems to be quite different. Many of the hosters it has acquired are small or medium sized hosters rather than market leaders and it is very focused on the US and Canadian markets.

The number of active registrars is only a fraction of the 2,500 or so. As a model it was great for the 1990s when the gTLD market was just .COM/NET/ORG. Over the last ten years or so, the weaknesses of the model have become apparent and large regions have very few ICANN registrars or none at all. Africa only has a few registrars.Brazil, one of the biggest ccTLD markets, has none. Outside the US/Canada, the market has shifted to ccTLDs and the incompetence of ICANN in dealing with Domain Tasting in the mid 2000s kickstarted that shift to ccTLDs. Thousands of hosters that would have grown to become ICANN registrars now outsource their gTLD registrations to registration as a service players rather than making the jump to become an ICANN accredited registrar. A hoster needs to have the registration volume to financially justify becoming an ICANN registrar.DAN's idea of having the registrar serve a function other than simple retail sales is a good one. But if it becomes successful, others will try to copy the model or integrate ideas into their own operation.

Regards...jmcc

 

[tonyk2000]

Thousands of hosters that would have grown to become ICANN registrars now outsource their gTLD registrations to registration as a service players rather than making the jump to become an ICANN accredited registrar.

... and, in many cases, they still can (and do) become cctld registrars with no major issues. In .uk (.co.uk) for example, I've seen fellow domainers operating as their own "registrars" (TAG = "John Doe" in nominet terms). Such hosters preference alone affects global market.

As a side note, this thread is no more about dan-vs-epik. I cannot imagine how the mods will fix it...

 

[DAN.COM]

They went a little soft on you but be very careful about voicing out your opinion/feedback about their service in near future bud

Hi Soofi,

You are well aware of the true reason why we decided to terminate your account with us.

You first brought an imported transaction to DAN where the buyer (Ankit which was hiding under a stolen identity) used a stolen US-based credit card to purchase a domain you sold in your auction.

When we canceled and refunded the transaction, you shortly after started to spread false information about payment processing issues at DAN and are still continuing to do so.

Both incidents but mostly the first resulted in us deciding to not work with you anymore. As a service provider, we choose who we work with. When a user engages in malicious attacks of our brand, we are within our right to not add value to you anymore.

The same happened with Robert. He started harassing our investors after he received some offers on a domain of his called GetMyCheck.com. Some US citizens thought they could collect their $1000 coronavirus stimulus cash from the Trump administration on that domain. When he started complaining about leads not converting into sales, we literally only told him to stop using the make offer option for that name and to set a BIN price to avoid getting new offers from people that want to get their check.

From this moment on, for no good reason, Robert starts emailing our investors & support staff accusatory messages and we decide to block his access to DAN directly in response of his continuous attacks.

Fun fact, all the time Robert was communicating with us, he had a management function at Epik as SVP Strategy & Communications.

We blocked Robert and Soofi to safeguard the integrity of our marketplace. We now observe that Robert Davis and Rob Monster are doubling down on spreading a new false narrative about a so called data leak at DAN.

This is again false and fabricated. We haven't had a data leak, do not have one at the moment and none of the Robs have reported such a leak to us privately or via our support team while they spread these new claims vocally.

After our announcement, a plethora of industry leaders have contacted us sharing with us that they also have experienced the same issues as us with these rogue and unstable actors.

We do not expect the actors involved to change their behavior but will continue to build our case against them which might turn into a lawsuit in the future if they continue their attacks and above all the spread of fully fabricated stories about us for personal gain. Others from the industry have forwarded their experiences with these actors involved to us so the case is growing with the day.

Kind regards,

Dan

 

[Soofi]

Reza & Dan team, please stop cracking me up with your lamest ever excuses and reasoning of your wrongdoing!

This thread has over dozen or more people complaining about having issues with Dan’s payment processing and you still saying I WAS THE ONLY ONE??! Also, at this instance you deleted my account. So stop Cooken’ up Excuses with a random buyer named Ankit using stolen card or whatever is the reason.

Learn basics of business etiquette’s and you’ll probably figure out how to save the reputation/integrity of Dan. Grow up!

Hi Soofi,

You are well aware of the true reason why we decided to terminate your account with us.

You first brought an imported transaction to DAN where the buyer (Ankit which was hiding under a stolen identity) used a stolen US-based credit card to purchase a domain you sold in your auction.

When we canceled and refunded the transaction, you shortly after started to spread false information about payment processing issues at DAN and are still continuing to do so.

Both incidents but mostly the first resulted in us deciding to not work with you anymore. As a service provider, we choose who we work with. When a user engages in malicious attacks of our brand, we are within our right to not add value to you anymore.

Dan

 

[tonyk2000]

Why is this thread in free resources-reviews now? Or was it always here? Indeed, @Ostrados posted a link how @DAN.COM reviewed Epik (wanted to add a tag here, but there are too many options). Epik reviewed Dan. All members who participated reviewed both marketplaces as well as related activities of various registrars. So, shouldn't the thread be located in marketplaces at least?

 

[johnn]

What is the topic of this thread again? I am lost.

Sorry I am new.

 

[Ostrados]

Why is this thread in free resources-reviews now? Or was it always here? Indeed, @Ostrados posted a link how @DAN.COM reviewed Epik (wanted to add a tag here, but there are too many options). Epik reviewed Dan. All members who participated reviewed both marketplaces as well as related activities of various registrars. So, shouldn't the thread be located in marketplaces at least?

I originally posted this thread at Domain Industry News section but it got moved my mods.

 

[NickB]

Was watching YouTube this morning with my daughter and the below clip came up......

Reminded me of the Epik & Dan threads on here.....

 

[Lox]

Why let a few Individuals and Companies who don't want to play by the rules ruin a good thing for everyone else.
IMO

Individuals (Spotted so far): 2311
Companies (mostly fake or reg. for a short period and re-reg. again using dif. City/Chamber/Name): 173 (+ ...?)
Disruption bots (make offer sniffing, bin down, etc): 97
Networks (organizational effort): 23
Well-known brains (promoting the ideas): 27 (spotted)
etc

But there are certain things that you can do to protect yourself as an individual or a business. Extensive Due Diligence, before and after.

Regards